The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
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Hester
Hester - Mrs Oliphant
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Hester - Week 6
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Oliphant's ending for Hester shows that there is a choice in the end, whether we chooses marriage or not shows progressive thinking which is what Hester always wanted especially that the first wave of feminism occurred around the book’s publishing so I am glad it somehow worked out for her. On the other hand, wish we had justice regarding Edward. Volume 3 explored the psychology of the characters even further which I enjoyed as I was able to understand all perspectives, regardless if they are ‘bad’ characters.
Thanks to everyone who shared their views for this discussion. Enjoyed reading it all.
Mod
I rather dislike endings where you are left to imagine the outcome-I am glad Hester has more agency and involvement in the bank, and rather hoped that Harry would grow up a bit in the ensuing furore at the near collapse of the bank and that his honest management and good character plus some new-found wisdom might bring them together at last. Perhaps after a few evenings together poring over balance-sheets-their eyes meet across a flickering candle and so on...
On the other hand, a future with Roland-newly chastened by the near fatal results of Edward's speculation and now a much more responsible investor and a new partner at the bank-could also be envisioned, or even happy single hood following in Catherine's footsteps would also be fine options.
So I would just have liked one of the above resolutions please! Otherwise a really enjoyable read and I echo Daryl's thanks for a very satisfying read-along and discussion.
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For those who read Red Pottage, there is a similar independent woman with a similar outcome.
I agree that Edward and Emma deserve each other. Emma will probably have affairs or at least male admirers once she is bored with Edward. They probably will always struggle for money, especially if he keeps taking chances. He will always feel he was somehow mistreated and unappreciated. At least these 2 don't have romantic notions of marriage at this point. But Hester is so lucky that she didn't end up with Edward.
The reconciliation between Catherine and Hester was pretty melodramatic, but long overdue. The moral sounds like something my daughter said in high school - boyfriends come and go but your female friends are who you can really count on.
Overall, I really liked this book although it was a little slow getting started.
When the novel ended, Hester’s life had still not really started. It described an early episode in her life, albeit shocking, one which probably shaped the rest of it. However, the book was really about Catherine and her desperately sad investment in a surrogate ‘son’ who ruined her life. Catherine didn’t deserve Edward’s years of deceit, administered like a cleverly disguised poisonous balm massaged into her psyche every day of her later life. When the Captain told Hester that Edward had ‘killed’ Catherine, Hester at first wouldn’t accept it, but Edwards actions were far worse than any physical blow could make. His deceit and cowardly swindling of the bank had murdered her soul.
’ She was not thinking, any more than it is inevitable to think as long as life remains. She was only suffering, nothing more. She could not make any head against it. Her last stronghold had fallen. This it is which makes calamity so terrible to the old. She could not get beyond it. There was nothing, nothing in her path but this, blocking it across with a darkness that would never be dispersed.’
I thought that Hester just might elope with Edward, but once she experienced that ‘Medusa Moment,’ I knew that she would forsake him. Well done Hester, for such courage. Her independent mind won out in the end.
’ Hester did not know anything about classic story, but she remembered vaguely about a face with snaky locks that turned men to stone. She told Harry the truth, yet it was a cruel lie. She herself, though she knew nothing and was tortured with terror and questionings, seemed to become at once an active agent in the dark mystery, a liar, a traitor, a false friend…………….
…………….was it with the intention of blinding those eyes and preventing them from divining the truth? or was it in mere horror of herself as the instrument of a lie, of him, him whom she would fain have thought perfect, as falsehood incarnate? There was a moment when Hester knew nothing more, when, though she was on fire and her thoughts like flame, lighting up a wild world of dismay about her, she yet felt as if turned into stone…….
………. And then it was that Hester felt as if her very hair began to writhe and twist in living horror about her shoulders, and that her eyes, wide with fright and terror, were becoming like Medusa's, things that might turn all that was living to stone. (Volume 3 Chapter VII)
From the time under the Holly tree when Edward mocked Hester about her father and threw her roughly to the ground to when, a couple of days later, she found out that he was ‘ likely to have married,’ her very deep love for Edward started to unravel. Yet even after he had abused her so badly she still hoped he might return to put everything right.
It was ironic that the bad boy Edward was the catalyst to bring Catherine and Hester together. Both would have been generous to him if he had returned, another similarity which they shared. I liked the way they both came warily to peace and friendship.
‘Catherine took hold of her dress when she was going away.
"One thing," she said. "I think you and I have hated each other because we were meant to love each other, child."
"I think I have always done both," said Hester.
The faint sound that broke through the stillness was not like Catherine's laugh. She patted the girl's arm softly with her hand. Their amity was too new to bear caresses.
Overall this was a very good story well worth reading.
Mod
Regarding the ending, I felt aggrieved that Catherine should die a broken woman whilst Edward prospered. I doubt whether Edward would put up with Emma for very long. I can see a distraught Emma eventually returning to Roland having been abandoned in Monte Carlo, or even worse, Rio de Janero. However a gambler like Edward will probably not prosper for long. Maybe he inherited some of Mr. John’s DNA and thats what made him so attractive to Hester. He might end up on the edge of the same cemetery on the continent next to John, now renamed Vernonry Villains’ Corner.
I liked the way Hester was given choices at the end. Being so young she could take a deep breath and spend some time to contemplate her next move. She seemed determined not to marry but…….
Hester couldn’t marry Roland, because she would then be Edward’s and Emma’s sister-in-law. Christmas would be particularly difficult.
She could be pragmatic and marry Harry with the condition that she be made a partner at the bank (If it was in his power.) If being a partner wasn’t possible she could even take over Harry’s job and he could become the house husband, managing the little ‘uns and maintaining the house (with weekends off for football.) He definitely has great skills for that role.
Mod
Also, if she does decide to marry, she still has a lot of time to meet someone else if she doesn't want Roland or Harry. Even in that time period, she should still be considered "marriageable" at 23 or 24. I like that Margaret Oliphant left it open, signifying that whether or not she married, or who she married, wasn't the point of the story (though she did dodge a bullet by refusing Mr. Wrong).
I agree that Edward will probably get tired of Emma. I'm not sure if he will abandon her, or (most probably) just spend all his time away from home so he doesn't have to see her all the time. And he'll probably do more dodgy investments or gamble and ruin himself (and her). I suppose she's happy since all she wanted was a husband and now she has one, even if he's probably going to be a distant one.
I enjoyed the novel, especially with its feminist outlook (in places). Catherine made terrible mistakes in her life but also did wonderful things. It was a shame that her adulation of Edward blinded her to his weak character, resulting in the ruin of many fortunes. A good ending would have been for Catherine to insist that Hester assume some position of responsibility at the bank, perhaps to follow in her own footsteps. I can’t quibble much about the ending, with Hester still unmarried. Roland doesn’t seem exactly right for her spirited nature, and although I think Harry is a wonderful person, I think Hester would grow impatient with his weaknesses (and who would want Ellen for a sister-in-law?).
Frances wrote: "I think Edward's punishment will be a life with Emma-... "As I'd take solitary confinement over this situation, this is a fairly good punishment (I picture Edward looking pretty much like Hugh Laurie always looked whenever Imelda Staunton talked during their marriage in Sense & Sensibility)
However, I'm afraid I agree with Trev on the ultimate outcome:
Trev wrote: "..I doubt whether Edward would put up with Emma for very long. I can see a distraught Emma eventually returning to Roland having been abandoned in Monte Carlo, or even worse, Rio de Janero.."
So Edward might go bankrupt but likely escape the more egregious penalty of a life sentence with Emma and serve only a short sentence. But I bet it's long enough.
As to my view of the book, this is part of my GR review of Hester:
I really enjoyed this book. Outside of Hardy and Trollope, it is one of the best Victorian novels I’ve read. I have read 5 of Mrs. Oliphant’s famous Carlingford series and I think I liked this better than any of them. These are several things about it I liked.
- It’s setting and themes seemed more universal than many Victorian novels. The town hierarchy and the Vernon family’s role in it was wonderfully set up and was reminiscent of later period American novels where a powerful family tends to dominate the town’s operations.
- The strong characterization portrayed fairly dynamic and complex characters. The characterization had my sympathies varying between favoring Catherine and Hester in their dynamic and between Harry, Edward and Roland as to which suitor I preferred for Hester. While Oliphant was a bit overly-manipulative with her characters’ traits in order to achieve these changing allegiances in the reader, I can forgive her due to the excitement it added to the proceedings. Additionally, even the minor characters, such as the 6 other adult Vernonry residents were well-crafted and identifiable.
- The plot was a good one, fairly inventive and exciting even reminiscent of a Trollope novel. And like Trollope, Oliphant looks on her characters and society with insight and wit. While she’s not as skilled as Trollope in these areas, she is closer than other Victorian authors I have sampled.
A well-constructed setting, strong characterization and a good dramatic plot make for a very good novel. I rate it as 4+ stars.
Mod
It looks like we are about equal on how we feel the novel should’ve ended. Personally I enjoyed the ending because I like an enigma and I’m not a fan of ‘happy ever afters’.I enjoyed the novel immensely; I’d never heard of Mrs Oliphant until we were asked to vote for it, suffice to say I did not vote for it and I’m now saying thanks to all the group members who did!
For me, the protagonist should have been Catherine. Maybe a better title of the novel would’ve been Catherine or The Vernons?
My Oxford World Classics version of the novel Included a very interesting introduction (something I always read at the end to avoid spoilers). I found the information regarding the author intriguing and and enlightening, especially the historical background. I may consider looking up her magazine articles and essays.
Mrs Oliphant once said “ No one will mention me in the same breath as George Eliot”. She lived in the shadow of George Elliot but In my humble opinion, none of G E’s works that I have read are as good as Hester. The novel reminded me of the realism of some of the Russian Masters.
Neil wrote: "For me, the protagonist should have been Catherine. Maybe a better title of the novel would’ve been Catherine or The Vernons?.."While Catherine is a fascinating character, the story is more about the progression of Hester's character. Even so, it should have at least been titled Hester Vernon to reflect the importance of the family in the story. I like The Vernon Family too.
But I do think there is an over-tendency to use character names as titles because, as with Lorna Doone, it may mislead the reader as to how much focus will be in the titled character. Taking your suggestion a step further, Neil, away from people to institutions, a possible good title could be "The Vernonry" or "The Vernon House" which could refer to any or all of: The Vernonry, The Vernon Banking House, Catherine's House or the one that Harry and Ellen lived in.
Maybe "The Vernon Houses?"
I appreciate the creative thinking, Neil.
Mod
Frances wrote: "The House of Vernon!"Bingo!
But, I may be over-influenced by two Rumer Godden novels I read last year, one about a family estate named China Court and one about a nunnery, In This House of Brede.
I'm also one who would have preferred that Rebecca was titled Manderley and have always liked the P.D. James' title to her Pride and Prejudice sequel, Death Comes to Pemberley.
My title would have been ‘Edward Swindlerhands’ ……with a verse below‘Gently he nurtured flowers all around’
Roughly he threw a woman to the ground.’
After all, it did turn into a ‘sensation’ novel near the end.
……….but I suppose that title would give too much of the plot away.
‘Hester’ is not a great title and doesn’t reflect the story as a whole.
I like Frances’ idea or Neil’s ‘The Vernons,’ or maybe the name of the town that Catherine ‘owned’ as in Elizabeth Gaskell’s Cranford. Catherine did save the people of Redborough from utter ruin twice. Most of the townspeople had their money in the Vernon’s bank and Catherine was single handedly responsible for ensuring that hundreds of families didn’t have to consider the workhouse or debtors prison.
I think that Edith Wharton’s titles are pretty good. Apart from Ethan Frome she usually avoided names. My favourite title of hers is Hudson River Bracketed.
Trev wrote: "However, the book was really about Catherine and her desperately sad investment in a surrogate ‘son’ who ruined her life..."Exactly. Thanks so much for all the great quotes, Trev. I think the best part of this novel is the wonderful language. As dense as it was, I was never bored. I got started late, and was trying to catch up, but the language was too full of meaning to miss any of it.
Catherine is fascinating. I would have like more of the process as she selected and trained Edward and Harry as managers. How did she pick them? How did those relationships evolve? Putting Harry and Ellen into the White House. Why? The missing 30 years in the story.
I liked the circular, or spiral plot. Events didn't exactly repeat, but they rhymed, as Mark Twain is rumoured to have said. Thanks for all your insights. As a newcomer to Mrs. Oliphant and to this group, I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
I finished the book last night after having to catch up 3 weeks of reading in the last week.You have all written such great comments so I can hardly add anything. I liked the book much more than I expected and I was surprised about the rather modern, feminist touch of it. The book is from 1883 I think, but it could fit 70-80 years later as well.
I was a little bit disappointed with the end, but mostly due to the topic you have already been discussing - and that is the title of the novel. Hester is about 20-21 years old, so she still has her whole life in front of her. So ending it so soon seems like unfinished business - it is at least a difference to e.g. Jane Austen.
I was rather sad to see how Edward "killed" Catherine - she, who faced a financial crisis and saved the bank twice, who was so strong and did not really care about what the others thought of her. It puts another aspect to love vs. business. Edward did only care about business in his way - which is gambling in fact - but I doubt he can really love, and he will definitely not be happy with Emma. As many gamblers he will keep his restlessness.
Well, I think these are a few of my thoughts, even though it is not really anything new. I would have liked to keep up with the discussion in the last weeks, but I got a flu and was not capable of reading much.
Thanks to all of you to make this choice (as I had not heard of Margaret Oliphant before) and the great discussion during the last weeks.
I would like to add my thanks for the choice of a Margaret Oliphant novel, and for all the great contributions to the discussions. For those who knew little about the author before this read, it is worth noting that Victorian readers of novels bought her books in great quantities.
In fact she can be found in almost every yearly list of ‘Bestsellers’ from the 1860’s up until 1897.
https://www.victorianweb.org/authors/...
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You have all written such great comments so I can hardly add anything. I liked the book much more than I..."
Thank you for your thoughts and for chiming in. It's never too late, and we know our members have lives that can actually take time away from reading!
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For those who knew little about the author before this read, it ..."
Wow, she was prolific, turning out 1-2 books a year - back when authors wrote in longhand on paper!
This group read Miss Marjoribanks a couple years ago but this one seems much more sophisticated in its psychology and plot.
I've read the book somewhat in advance of the group read. It did not make such an impression on me that I felt compelled to participate in the debate, but I have read all your comments with much interest. What struck me was the overall theme of the book - money, family, family business. It seemed to me the epitome of the Victorian novel, fully reflecting the overarching preoccupations and values of the era. Get rich, stay rich, build a business and bequeath it to your heirs (by whatever means, btw. It was not a merciful era for those who had no part in the capitalist/imperialist endeavour).
It made me muse a little on what subjects authors choose to write about, and to what degree these subjects are influenced by the culture of their time ... which would not be obvious to the readers of their time, because the subjects would be so obvious and everyday that they don't even notice them.
The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910
Books mentioned in this topic
Miss Marjoribanks (other topics)Ethan Frome (other topics)
Hudson River Bracketed (other topics)
Cranford (other topics)
China Court (other topics)
More...
Why do you think the author ended the book the way she did for Hester?
Do you think Edward and Emma will be happy?
Are you satisfied with the way the various story threads were resolved? Would you have liked to see any resolved differently?