Golden Age of Hollywood Book Club discussion
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Complicated Women
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Pre-Code Commendations
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Feliks, Co-Moderator
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Jan 07, 2025 12:35PM
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currently available on Youtube
https://youtu.be/Wa-fZKszdzc
I have seen that film and thought it was great.I must mention Baby Face (1933) with Barbara Stanwyck. It just missed the crackdown of the Code and I am glad it did!
Night After Night (1932) is a pre-code movie with George Raft, Constance Cummings, and Mae West in her debut role. Raft is a shady character who falls for a socialite. He tries to impress her by taking lessons in speech and manners from a Miss Jellyman, (Alison Skipworth), who gives a delightful performance. Not the greatest but Mae West, who is a scene stealer, and Alison Skipworth make it worthwhile.
Oh, Pre-Codes - yum! Don't get me start. I may never stop ;)Okay, I'll try to be concise. I'll certainly second the 'Baby Face' recomandation (and about another dozen or so Babsy Standwyck titles from the era). And Carol Lombard made a few good ones too.
Beyond that, two wonderful Norma Shearer vehicles jump to mind, 'The Divorcee' and 'A Free Soul'. They're unmissible for any Pre-Code enthusiast - and they will wipe out any misconception we may have of Shearer's from later films.
There are a number of Code-casulties, i.e. stars and directors whose career never fully recovered from the enforcement of the code from mid 1934 onwards. Their stars burned brightly for 2 or 3 years and dimmed for a couple of decades or so afterwards. I'm thinking about Mae West, Richard Bartheless, Warren William, Lee Tracy and such.
And before I'll sign off my rant, let me big-up the Pre-Codes of director William A. Wellman. Among the 30 or so movies he churned out in that short span of time are some absolute corkers: Night Nurse, Public Enemy, Safe in Hell, Midnight Mary, Wild Boys of the Road and Heroes for Sale.
A great "rant", Magnus!!I have seen both of those Shearer films that you mentioned and couldn't agree more. She certainly wasn't the Shearer we know from her later films.
Wellman didn't take guff from any of the studio brass and made such terrific films just the way he wanted to. I have seen all but Safe in Hell in that list you mentioned and enjoyed every one of them.
Two classic pre-code films that had underlying themes: Scarface (1932) in which Paul Muni and his sister in the film, Ann Dvorak, had a rather unhealthy relationship; and Little Caesar (1931) in which Edward G. was just a little too fond of Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
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It has some small technical problems in delivering its intended wallop, but the theme and the irony are certainly strong, strong, strong.
Btw I love of Mick LaSalle's books on Pre-Codes, 'Complicated Women' and 'Dangerous Men'. Much of my appreciation of the times, people and themes comes from reading them.
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I notice though lately --just in passing --how much of a flood there is of literary, music, and film analysis books being published in the Amazon era.
It's a deluge of media analysis. There's authors out there today who forge their entire careers, on analyzing the work of some other big name author.
Look at this:
John LeCarre': Best Reading Order - with Summaries Checklist
This observation is unrelated to your recommendation just now, which I take at face value --take to heart --and trust in. I'd certainly pick up a LaSalle title, based on your say-so.
Just wondering if anyone else has noticed the cataract which has caught my eye.
Magnus wrote: "Btw I love of Mick LaSalle's books on Pre-Codes, 'Complicated Women' and 'Dangerous Men'. Much of my appreciation ........I have both of those books in my home library. I haven't read them for a while and might have another look at them since I enjoyed them.
@Feliks................I hadn't noticed that trend that you mentioned, Interesting.
I hadn't noticed it either but that might just be me not keeping up with new publications. Btw sorry if I jumped the gun re. the books. I just saw the image at the top of the page.
Trial of Mary Dugan, also with Norma Shearer, was very good. She should have won for that. It was in 1929, and both her and the film were better than Mary Pickford in Coquette. Then again, I’ve now seen several 1929 actress performances that were better than Coquette. Trial of Mary Dugan is almost similar to a 1929 Witness for the Prosecution. Sort of. Not totally.
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Oh, yes! It is so odd that Loy played many Far Eastern women in her early career. Isn't she Fu Manchu's daughter in this film which I saw once upon a time?
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In 'Mask of', Fu seeks to own the lost sabre of Ghenghis Khan which --if it falls into his possession --he will destroy ...the white race!
But the version of Fu which stuck with me (from a chance glimpse as a kid) was whatever one starts with Fu on death row, awaiting execution. He uses his mind control to send the prisoner in the adjacent cell out to the noose in his place. Burr!
And there's another memorable scene where he slays one of his henchwoman by sending her into a 'trick' phone booth. The doors suddenly seal her inside and the booth slowly fills up with water. This always made a strong impression on me.
I was going to say the same as Jill - about Loy being a veritable female Warner Oland back in the early 30s. Except she wasn't Swedish ;).
It was this kind of racial prejudice that kept the beautiful and talented Anna May Wong from total stardom. She tested for The Good Earth (1937) but the part was given to Luise Rainer who was European. And the list goes on...........Peter Lorre as Mr. Moto, Boris Karloff as Mr. Wong, etc. If an actual Far Eastern actor was cast in a part, they were either evil or got killed. I read somewhere that Phillip Ahn, who was Korean, was very upset that he was always cast as a Japanese officer in WWII films.
Sorry, I got off the subject matter of this topic.
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I'm not sure it is truly off-topic since it refers to films of the pre-code and later periods, but I understand your reluctance to indulge in the controversial.
I am currently reading The Dame in the Kimono: Hollywood, Censorship, and the Production Code by Leonard J. Leff that gives us an inside look at the pre-code days. Pretty interesting but a little dry. It does mention a couple of the films that we have posted here.
Betsy wrote: "I'm not sure it is truly off-topic since it refers to films of the pre-code and later periods, but I understand your reluctance to indulge in the controversial."I wouldn't even call it controversial but an integral part of the discussion about Pre-Code and what it historically entails. After all, the concept of 'miscegation' became a total taboo in the Hays years but it wasn't exactly condoned before either. Pre-Code point in case, Frank Capra's 'The Bitter Tea of General Yen' (1932). Barbara Stanwyck plays a christian missonary who falls in love with a Chinese warlord (played by Swede Nils Asther (!)). Obviously it's a doomed love affair because miscegation could never been condoned on-screen, even back then (although without it in real life, mankind would have long become extinct like European royalty who kept it in their royal families ;)).
What distinguishes the film is that General Yen is shown as a physically attractive man, quite worthy of Stanwyck's desire (I can't recall if we ever see them kiss on-screen). After 1934 that wouldn't have been possible.
I don't think that they kissed in that film, Magnus, as that was taboo even before the Code. A couple of pre-Code films come to mind where there was a relationship between a Far Eastern and a Western player (The Cheat and Piccadilly) but there never was any close physical contact,
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It's not off-topic in any sense other than that in this group I've decided not to let sparks turn into forest fires.
Other discussion venues around the web (Reddit, Criterion, etc) are more equipped to handle feisty, obstreperous, "hot-under-the-collar" type exchanges.
Bruce wrote: "I wouldn't call it controversial but an integral part of the discussion about Pre-Code and what it historically...
Better suited for other websites, rather than this quiet little backwater.
I'll have to delete any volatile, "politically-charged", 'axe-grinding' posts of that sort, if I notice them raised here. They only lead to disgruntlement; unrest.
I use a 'four-balls' & 'three-strikes' principle which oughta give anyone enough warning to throttle back.
Watched Mandalay (1934) which just slipped under the Code. Kay Francis, a woman with an uncertain past, and Ricardo Cortez, a gangster, are madly in love. Cortez has to disappear for a while to escape the authorities and leaves Francis with his gangster friend, Warner Oland to work in his "club" (which is obviously a brothel). She becomes a powerful prostitute and then Cortez returns.Francis looked particularly beautiful in this film with clothes that barely cover her. In one scene, it appears that she is putting on face powder but she sniffs it up her nose!!
There is so much in this film that would have been deleted by the Code that there wouldn't have been any story left. It is an interesting look at a film that just dodged the Code. It is a bit of a "B" movie with lots of recognizable supporting actors but I enjoyed it.
The restored version of The Front Page (1931) got away with lots of profanity but you sometimes have to listen carefully to pick it up. But the topper is when one of the reporters gives "the finger" to the Mayor. It had to be toned down for the 1940 His Girl Friday remake with Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell since the Code was in place by then.
Jill wrote: "The restored version of The Front Page (1931) got away with lots of profanity but you sometimes have to listen carefully to pick it up. But the topper is when one of the reporters gives "the finger..."That's funny. I would have thought the expression was newer than that but obviously it isn't. A quick gander in google tells me it all goes back to Ancient Greece ;)
I didn't know it went back that far. I figured it was from the 1800's.
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In Greece, the up-yours/screw you slur was traditionally made with a thumbs-up (famed in the USA as a gesture of affirmation by Arthur Fonzarelli).
Italy and Turkey both have their own gestures. Sometimes it is 'the arm' (as seen in Puzo/Coppola). Sometimes it's the 'jaw'. Or the 'wrist'.
'The O' symbol (representing any kind of bodily orifice) is another (matching Americans 'okay' sign).
I'm surprised this isn't readily known by this group. I would think it was common knowledge.
My first year undergrad was ASL sign-language-for-the-deaf ...might be I'm biased on the topic
I knew a couple of those but not all. But we forgot the "V" sign in Britain, which used to be for "victory" but is now offensive.
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I thought that was only in silly post-game sports when lowbrow thugs on one one team haze their counterparts the losing team.
Rather than associate 'V' with 'VJ Day' I myself recall that it was always bound to the hippie movement. It's the 'peace' sign which began as signifying antipathy to Vietnam involvement; but spread to the cause of ecology, etc.
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Nice write-up of 'Phantom of Crestwood' here
https://kissmyreview.blogspot.com/201...
Karen Morley co-stars with Myrna Loy in 'Fu' with Karloff.
I once trekked all the way downtown to see Crestwood on the big screen.
But I admit I still didn't realize (until recently) that it was an RKO radio serial first before it was filmed.
In the radio version the solution was withheld, and the tease-line above was circulated around the nation to generate buzz.
In the UK, isn’t it victory when it’s ✌🏽like the peace sign, and offensive when the hand and fingers are turned around? Both have been around a long time.
I had to go look that up and I was partially correct. In America, the "V" sign with the palm facing outward is a sign of peace or victory. But in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand, the same gesture with the palm facing inward can be considered offensive and mean "up yours."
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I've never seen it myself, so I can't say for sure --it may have actually been the three-finger boy-scout salute
Jill wrote: "I had to go look that up and I was partially correct. In America, the "V" sign with the palm facing outward is a sign of peace or victory. But in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand, the same gestur..."Having lived in the UK many years I can confirm that the two fingers, palm facing inwards (i.e. inverted peace sign) mean what you said. It goes back to some war with the French where some besiged English archers showed the enemy they still had the pertinent fingers to shoot off arrows to defend themselves, from what I've been told. It's very common and often used in a jokey way though nobody thinks about the historical origin of the gesture.
That was probably the Battle of Agincourt (1415) since the English longbowmen knew that the pertinent fingers would be cut off to destroy their fighting ability. However, it was the French who weredefeated.
You're probably right. Legend has it that the French were so in awe of English marksmanship they cut off the index and the middle finger whenever they captured an archer so showing those two fingers used to mean, 'still these, still can shoot an arrow'.
I don't know how the film Bolero (1934) with George Raft and Carole Lombard got past the censors as there is a dancing scene where Raft hands are caressing Lombard's "forbidden" parts.
Haven't seen that. Will have to give it a look. Do they play 'Bolero'?
Jill wrote: "I don't know how the film Bolero (1934) with George Raft and Carole Lombard got past the censors as there is a dancing scene where Raft hands are caressing Lombard's "forbidden" parts."Saw 'Bolero' tonight. Love that music. Good thing George Raft became a professional tough guy because he was more believable as one. I know he once was a dancer, but somehow he seemed arrogant, not charismatic. Carole Lombarde was much more believable as Helen, even though she was not a dancer. They did get 'sensual' in that dance however.
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A Babs fest (Babs Stanwyck)
Stanwyck was a true gem! And she could play in drama and comedy with equal effect. I have not seen the The Bitter Tea........ but am familiar with it and will have to look for it. Thanks for the tip.
Just kinda a "thought" regarding Mae West, and her naughty banter, especially pre-code, I find it so fascinating that she only made 10 movies (I think that's right), and yet she is so well known. I mean THAT is someone who really made a dent, and was not particularly super talented in terms of range and not a super traditional beauty. She also gives middle to seniors a sexuality, which today is unheard of (but I do notice it is coming back in film, like 80 for Brady and Book Blub). As my mom said, " just because there's snow on the roof, doesn't mean the fire has gone out."
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Apart from the Stage Divas or the Silent Divas [Theda Bara, Clara Bow, Louise Brooks, Gloria Swanson, Marlene Dietrich, Mabel Normand, Jenny Lind, Lillian Gish, Norma Talmadge, Greta Garbo, etc] --I feel Mae West was the first sex symbol in 'talkies'.
She therefore sculpted the mold we've lived in ever since. I don't know any later vamp who added anything new she hadn't already experimented with.
Not even Monroe or Mansfield, really.
Mature beauties: no reason they should NOT return, I say. Did Joan Collins ever stop frolicking around?
Sophia Loren still looks terrific, as does Jane Fonda (at least she did, the last time I checked on her).
Anything's possible as long as one stays fit.
The way our culture is so dependent on consuming-and-discarding everything --including people --irks me no end.
It's as if the powers-that-be want everyone to simply park themselves in front of a television and do nothing except watch their commercials.
Golden Age of Hollywood Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Dame in the Kimono: Hollywood, Censorship, and the Production Code (other topics)John LeCarre': Best Reading Order - with Summaries Checklist (other topics)
