Welcome to The Midnight Bell (a virtual pub and general discussion thread) (2025)

[Alwynne]

Thanks for the link Nigey, I'm seeing my notifications but friends keep disappearing from my 'home' feed since the change, and now have a list of ones I have to check individually to find their reviews/updates.

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "With all that's happening, we also have the crisis at the Internet Archive. This interview will interest you.

"What Happens if the Internet Archive Goes Dark?"

https://www.kqed.org/news/12031980/..."

Thanks Ben, I'll check it out. Such a great resource.

[Blaine]

Anubha wrote: "I have stopped receiving notifications on Goodreads from this group. I remember Ben had gone through something similar. Did you find a solution Ben?

I haven't changed my settings or anything. I do..."

Yes, that has worked for me. Logging out and then logging in again fixes it for me.

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "Anubha wrote: "I have stopped receiving notifications on Goodreads from this group. I remember Ben had gone through something similar. Did you find a solution Ben?

I haven't changed my settings or..."

Btw Ben take it back about Star Wars, hated the films but watching The Mandalorian and think it's brilliant. Although not sure about The Book of Bobba Fett but forms a bridge between season 2 of The Mandalorian and season 3, so feel I have no choice but to soldier on. However, Trek still rules! Latest iteration Strange New Worlds is incredibly good, and new series soon!

[Blaine]

Oooh, good to hear. Strange New Worlds here we come!

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "Oooh, good to hear. Strange New Worlds here we come!"

It's based on Christopher Pike the captain who came before Kirk, the one who was wounded at the beginning of the original Star Trek. It's also referencing a lot of classic sf like Ursula Le Guin's The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas, despite what we know about Pike's future it's a lot more upbeat than Picard, and more thoughtful than Discovery - although I did enjoy Discovery. I think it's by far the best of the recent crop of reboots tracing back to Discovery.

[G]

Some of the books I'm reading are failing to appear in the column "currently reading" on the home page. Has anyone else encountered this problem? Any idea how to fix it? I did sign out and sign back in on both laptop and app. Not sure what to do next.

[Blaine]

I had the same problem. The only way I found to fix it was to reduce the number of currently reading books (it was 23, many of which I hadn't touched for ages), and now that the list is down to 8 they are showing up again.

[Nigeyb]

I only read two, very occasionally three, books at the same time and, as yet, have not had any issues

[G]

Ben wrote: "I had the same problem. The only way I found to fix it was to reduce the number of currently reading books (it was 23, many of which I hadn't touched for ages), and now that the list is down to 8 t..."

Thanks, Ben, Were the ones you weren't seeing new additions, or older ones?
I have a very long backlist of current reads, and they only show a few on the home page, but until a few weeks ago they were always the most recently added or updated ones. So that a newly added title should pop right to the top. From time to time I go through the "currently reading" page, but it's cumbersome, and by now has around 80 entries, so it takes a while to work through the list. (I created a "on hold" file to put the ones I really plan to return to in.)

[Alwynne]

G wrote: "Ben wrote: "I had the same problem. The only way I found to fix it was to reduce the number of currently reading books (it was 23, many of which I hadn't touched for ages), and now that the list is..."

Happens sometimes just have to click on the recently added or recently read and it reorders itself. So when I look at read, not all my reviews appear in date order so have to click on the date read button and they reappear.

[Blaine]

G wrote: "Were the ones you weren't seeing new additions, or older ones?..."

The ones I wasn't seeing were the newer ones.

[Susan]

The authors for the Theakston Old Peculier crime writing festival in Harrogate has been announced, which I intend to visit this summer. Anybody else planning to go?

Friday:
Attica Locke
Belinda Bauer, Chris Chibnall, AA Dhand, Mel Pennant, Trisha Sakhlecha and Simon Mayo
Kia Abdullah, Sam Blake, Claire Douglas, Andrea Mara and Lisa Howells
Charles Cumming, Louise Doughty, Nick Harkaway, Alan Judd and N.J. Cooper
Dugald Bruce-Lockhart, Abigail Dean, Imran Mahmood, Guy Morpuss and Nicola Williams
Mark Billingham and Mick Herron
Beth Lewis, S J Parris, Shylashri Shankar, Andrew Taylor and TE Kinsey
Irvine Welsh and Abir Mukherjee

Saturday:
Paula Hawkins and Kate Mosse
Kate Bendelow, Clea Koff, Haillie Rubenhold, Russell Wate and Nadine Matheson
Daniel Aubrey, AE Goldin, Kate Kemp, RS Burnett and Mick Herron
Snaebjorn Arngrimsson, Tariq Ashkanani, Simon Mason, Rob Parker and Sarah Hilary
Ben Aaronovitch, Adam Oyebanji, Sarah Pinborough, Eve Smith and Doug Johnstone
Mick Herron and Will Smith
Fiona Cummins, Chris Hammer, Abir Mukherjee, Stuart Neville and Val McDermid
Lee Child and Andrew Child

Sunday:
Kate Atkinson and Lee Child
John Finnemore, Janice Hallett, Cara Hunter, Anthony Johnston and Rev. Richard Coles
Val McDermid and Steph McGovern

[Roman Clodia]

Wow, that's quite the line up!

[Susan]

Yes, should be fun. Lots of authors I haven't seen before too, which is good.

[G]

I did a thing: I went to a protest. Apparently there were several million of us, at a series of coordinated events across all 50 states, and now I am reading some places in Europe.

It was amazingly satisfying to stand in the main corner of a suburban town reading signs and occasionally yelling. One event, even one with several million people, isn’t going to fix things, but it’s a step.

[Blaine]

Yes, we were at the event in London, crowded into a corner of Trafalgar Square, alongside other protests against Erdogan and against the Islamic Republic in Iran and also campaigners for the rights of the disabled.

It was the right place to be. It wasn't huge, but large enough that we didn't see other friends who were also there.

[Hester]

Great to hear . Resistance is power. There's nothing like necessity for focussing mind and action .

I've been educating myself on such wide ranging topics as current totalitarian regimes ( Putin's Russia) or nascent ones in Europe ( Turkey ) , the history of economic protectionism ( perfected by the British Empire but then the default for the USA) and the wonderful technology of petrol and paraffin lamps . Have to say the last topic is absolutely fascinating ( that iridescent mantle ! ) but also sobering when it seems so many people in the world have no choice but to still use them , consuming as much paraffin worldwide in a year as the planes flying out of USA ...

All this brought to me by the very technology that enables us to live in greater and greater isolation from those in our physical surroundings who don't see the world "our way" , if we so choose .

Ironically I am using that same piece of transportable addictive kit to write this . it both allows me to live in a self soothing / reinforcing bubble but also means I can truly enjoy an , albeit limited to written conversation around the world on a subject ( reading ) that I adore . That's the conundrum .

I often walk with earbuds in , listening to audio books . The other day I decided not to . This meant I found myself in step with an elderly man walking in my direction on a country lane . We fell into conversation and it became clear that he had led a happy adult life in a racist state where he had enjoyed wealth and privilege before coming back to England , in order to benefit from free health care and lower risk of violence , while paying no tax with his investments offshore . I simply listened . I wasn't going to change his mind . But I learned something more than watching a video / documentary in this uncurated encounter . He was lonely (and he loved motorbikes) . Next time I see him he'll know me . Might have a brew . Who knows ? Some of my friends are also bikers and I don't hold it against them .

Seriously though, what I'm saying here is conversation is good . It's the bedrock of democracy . Where would fiction be without characters discovering friendships between the most unlikely characters and from unpromising starts ?

So much in this world serves to isolate us from each other in our own comforting bubbles . Tribalism is a tool of empires . Totalitarian regimes make unguarded conversations dangerous . Keep talking and listening to those you disagree with but , if the democracy bird has flown , keep resisting .

[Roman Clodia]

Ben wrote: "Yes, we were at the event in London, crowded into a corner of Trafalgar Square, alongside other protests"

I was there too with my very organized and loud Polish friends!

Well done, G. It is so important to know that you are a part of something bigger.

And yes, Hester, there is so much inspiration in community and solidarity. Do you read the Guardian series 'Dining Across the Divide'? It brings together two people with diverging opinions on anything and pays for them to have dinner together and then they both report back: nearly always, they listen to each other, find out what they have in common, sometimes learn something, and come away respecting their differences but able to deal with each other on a human basis.

This, I think, is one of the big losses in political discourse: it has descended to name calling with no genuine debate and thrives on lack of information and disinformation.

[Roman Clodia]

This looks good: No More Tears: The Dark Secrets of Johnson & Johnson - sounds like a consumer version of Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty.

Does anyone know the journalist/author Gardiner Harris?

After the recent talc scandal, I've put a library reservation on this book.

[Nigeyb]

Talc scandal?!

[Roman Clodia]

Nigeyb wrote: "Talc scandal?!"

That J&J have known for decades but covered up that talc used in their famous baby powder was contaminated with asbestos. The WHO has added that the mineral talc itself, even if not contaminated, could be carcinogenic.

They also are embroiled in the fentanyl/opioid crisis through their subsidiary, Jansen.

Capitalism at its finest... again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c...

[G]

Nigeyb wrote: "Talc scandal?!"

It turns out J & J's talcum powder is implicated in a spike in cancers, I think mostly in women. The cancers I am aware of are gynecological cancers, at any rate. It turns out that talc is mined in places where there is often asbestos, and despite the fact that the dangers of asbestos leaked to the public in the early 80's, J & J did not show due diligence to ensure that their talc was asbestos-free. That detail became public knowledge in the US some while ago. IIRC, when the scandal broke here J & J switched to making their baby powder out of cornstarch (which in my opinion might not be better, given the heavy use of glyphoate in growing corn commercially), but of course millions of us have had talc used on us in infancy and childhood, and many women I know continued to use it after showering right up until the scandal broke. It can take asbestos cancers as long as 50 years to present (a fact that I learned when my father developed mesothelioma, thanks mostly to his WWII service), so J & J could be on the hook for decades. Apparently they are now trying for bankruptcy, so they don't have to pay out the full value of claims. That's what all the asbestos companies did once the documentation that they knew how deadly asbestos is became public.
A quick search turned up this article:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07...

[G]

Roman Clodia wrote: "This looks good: No More Tears: The Dark Secrets of Johnson & Johnson - sounds like a consumer version of Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty...."

I don't, but I see that his bio on the NYT site mentions that he covered the pharmaceutical industry for WSJ & NYT, and before that he worked for a paper in Louisville KY (the Courier-Journal is America's great, if lesser-known, newspapers, or at least was when he was there; not sure what it is now) where he broke a couple of stories about scandals that implicated major political figures, so he seems to have the right kind of investigative credentials for a book like this.

[Nigeyb]

Flipping heck


Thanks G

Thanks RC


And all these years I've thought there's nothing more benign than good old talc. My grandmother always applied it when bathing my sisters and me

[G]

Nigeyb wrote: "Flipping heck


Thanks G

Thanks RC


And all these years I've thought there's nothing more benign than good old talc. My grandmother always applied it when bathing my sisters and me"

Yeah, that's what lots of us thought, including, of course, our mothers and grandmothers, who would never have done something that might kill us.

Capitalism at its finest, indeed. And its evil twin, marketing--because why do you suppose our grandmothers and mothers thought this would be a great product to use on their small children?

[Blaine]

I grew up with post-bath talcum powder too, Nigeyb. I never really understood the point of it, but the clouds of white dust looked so cool.

Asbestos in talc is certainly carcinogenic. The evidence is equivocal with asbestos-free talc, but I hadn't been aware of the corn starch/glyphosate issue.

Then there's the problem with our plastic-riddled brains.

And with Musk going Mars, we can't even escape there!

What's the issue with Tylenol (acetaminophen)?

[G]

Ben wrote: "I grew up with post-bath talcum powder too, Nigeyb. I never really understood the point of it, but the clouds of white dust looked so cool.

Asbestos in talc is certainly carcinogenic. The evidence..."

To be clear, the cornstarch/glyphosate issue is something I am concerned about, but haven't seen any studies of. My brain is wired in such a way that I often see the unintended bad consequences more clearly than the present apparent benefits, which is a really shitty way to have to be in a society that cares only about the present and the near term. I clearly remember thinking, when companies began to use plastic bottles for shampoo and milk, that all these plastic bottles were not a good idea because we didn't know what chemicals were in them, and they would create mountains of trash which seemed a really bad idea. I was about 13, and that was seriously my first thought, and one that I never could get out of my head, though no one wanted to hear it. Now here we are, with plastic-punctured brains, as Ben points out, and the whole planet choking to death on plastic. So read my concern in this context: something I see, but no one I know of is seeing. I am wrong sometimes, and perhaps this will be one of those times.

[Hester]

I remember the documentary "Alice - a fight for Life " and it's impact in the 1970s . still available on you tube I think. Hebden Bridge , a town near here , had a huge mill making filters for gas masks in WW2 and the death rate among the workers was a trigger for more stringent regulations . I was sorry to hear of your father's death GL and fully understand your position . Benjamin Myers has written a non fiction book about the local landscape and includes this history and the quarries near to his home in Mytholmroyd where asbestos waste was tipped in huge mountains .

The talc story has been less well publicized as it is not geographically based so, being kind , you could argue the relationship between female genital tract cancer and talc use would not have been so obvious. That said, given the clear correlation between asbestos and cancer you would like to think J&J would have been more cautious .....I seem to remember one confounding argument that only certain types of asbestos were harmful , now disproven ...

[Roman Clodia]

Just 5% into the J&J book:

'In 1971, Tenovus Cancer Research Institute in Cardiff, Wales, published a study titled 'Talc and Carcinoma of the Ovary and Cervix'...The talc particles seemed to be located at the very core of the tumors, suggesting they were the primary irritant that led to the development of the ovarian cancer itself...With Baby Powder being too important to the company, J&J executives developed a plan to discredit the study.'

1971. I'm not finding any reason to be kind.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Just 5% into the J&J book:

'In 1971, Tenovus Cancer Research Institute in Cardiff, Wales, published a study titled 'Talc and Carcinoma of the Ovary and Cervix'...The talc particles seemed to be l..."

I find that especially depressing as my aunt who was in her early twenties in the seventies died from ovarian cancer, she used talc liberally. She used to put it on after her bath with a giant powder puff, was one of her beauty rituals.

[Roman Clodia]

I agree, it's infuriating and sickening that something that is essentially a cosmetic with no health or medical benefits should have been marketed as a beauty product while J&J were actively covering up all the medical reports on asbestos contamination and talc's own status as a carcinogen.

Even when the WHO insisted that Johnson's Baby Powder carry cancer warnings, a 2005 email from a top J&J executive tells everyone to ignore the law.

Like in the Sackler book, they attack the reputation of scientists, get board members from top US medical schools like the Mount Sinai Pediatrics Department to cover up findings, develop an asbestos testing protocol that is designed to not indicate the presence of asbestos by using miniscule samples, and have TV on their side through personal relationships while refusing to respond to newspaper journalists.

I'm so angry that J&J own brands I use like Neutrogena and Aveeno.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "I agree, it's infuriating and sickening that something that is essentially a cosmetic with no health or medical benefits should have been marketed as a beauty product while J&J were actively coveri..."

I've used Neutrogena and Aveeno products, have you read about the issues with Neutrogena in America? Potentially similar issues

https://www.classaction.org/news/cert...

https://www.newsweek.com/acne-brands-...

[Roman Clodia]

I hadn't seen that, thanks - Clinique, Estee Lauder and CeraVe too... is nothing safe?

The FDA is funded by the pharmaceutical companies so has no regulatory arms-distance independence - and aren't they one of the agencies recently decimated by DOGE?

The first role of government should be to keep the population safe. This book isn't about ignorance, it's about knowing deceptions, cover-ups, corruption, intended ways of either getting around the law or knowingly breaking it, all in the interests of capitalism's profits before anything.

The more I read, the more I understand why le Carre took on big pharma in his The Constant Gardener even though his focus was on clinical trials and the abuse of so called third world countries.

[Hester]

Just as appalling is the way cosmetics and such products are deeply embedded in our psyche: their use being a mark of gender . My mother was deeply opposed to the use of anything except soap and water ( okay , let's not get into the history of soap ) , abhorred makeup and creams and talc just made dust .As a teenager I dabbled but without a mentor my beauty habits have been minimal . I bless her now.

Of course the beauty industry , like many other , preys on our insecurities, and body odour is a pretty basic one , especially if you couldn't manage a bath more than once a week , a bit of talc down there would serve a purpose.

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, you're right, Hester, but cosmetics are still supposed to be regulated by the FDA and European regulators, and shouldn't be laden with carcinogens - something which the class acts are proving.
Incidentally, I love make-up in the same way I love fashion - they're essentially frivolous and unnecessary but so much fun!

J&J via their pharma subsidiary Janssen are as deceptive when it comes to prescription drugs: I'm reading about Risperdal, their expensive antipsychotic drug tested and licensed to treat schizophrenia, which they illegally sold as a drug to treat dementia and anxiety. They bribed doctors and the big insurers, set up a dedicated sales force to sell the drug on anxiety symptoms rather than a psychiatric diagnosis of schizophrenia.

[Roman Clodia]

To change the subject, there's an excellent interview with Katie Kitamura in today's Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/books/2025/apr/12...

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "To change the subject, there's an excellent interview with Katie Kitamura in today's Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/books/2025/apr/12......"

Thanks btw have you tried the Yuka app? You can scan a barcode for creams, moisturisers etc and will tell you if it's got a bad chemical profile.

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "btw have you tried the Yuka app? "

No, I hadn't heard of that, thanks. I'm wondering if anything in Boots is safe, including Boots own brands like No.7

[Roman Clodia]

Seems like a good time to read Natural Beauty which you enjoyed, Alwynne!

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "btw have you tried the Yuka app? "

No, I hadn't heard of that, thanks. I'm wondering if anything in Boots is safe, including Boots own brands like No.7"

I wonder too, starting to feel as if we're not so far away from slathering arsenic on faces after all. I mainly use Green People, elf and Faith in Nature. And then stuff like rosewater and glycerin and witch hazel if my skin's troubled. But I don't wear much actual makeup beyond things like mascara and tinted gloss, mainly because it was really difficult to get cosmetics that weren't tested on animals in the past so just didn't use them.

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Seems like a good time to read Natural Beauty which you enjoyed, Alwynne!

"

I did, accessible and entertaining. Not especially profound but thoughtful, reminded me a bit of Mona Awad but think this is actually a stronger piece than Rouge

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "I wonder too, starting to feel as if we're not so far away from slathering arsenic on faces after all."

Exactly! I don't wear foundation but that's because I'm obsessed with serums and creams to keep my skin not needing it and now they're being called into question. I rarely wear mascara as I wear glasses - but no-one will pry me away from eyebrow make-up and lippy!

Thanks for the reminder of rosewater and witch hazel - the stuff of teenage years! I love a rosehip facial oil at night - don't even want to know how that might have been processed and added to.

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "reminded me a bit of Mona Awad but think this is actually a stronger piece than Rouge"

Yes, agree on both counts though the writing is sharp and smart without quite having Awad's pizzazz. Talking of which, I feel I should re-read Bunny in preparation for the sequel later this year - or, if not quite a sequel from what I've seen, still set in the Bunny-verse.

[G]

I see that Mario Vargas Llosa has died.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

[Alwynne]

Does anybody know anything about C diff precautions? Visited an older relative in hospital who's just had surgery. They weren't feeling well and turns out have C diff so now in isolation. I'm hoping hand hygiene was good enough, although hand sanitiser doesn't work. Also washed my hands before leaving the hospital. But some sites say should wash my clothes in disinfectant too? Is that really necessary?

And although Amazon is technically a baddie been a godsend, I was able to sort out sending two Jeeves omnibus editions to his kindle so he has something to read. Nothing available there.

[G]

I can’t speak to current recommendations, Alwynne, but I can say that when my mother was hospitalized in 2005 for c. diff. (which she got while in in-patient rehab after back surgery, and which almost killed her), in addition to washing my hands thoroughly with soap and water at the hospital and again when I got home, I laundered my clothes using my usual laundry products. Neither I nor a friend who was very vulnerable to c. diff. (she’d had it multiple times), and with whom I hung out quite a lot, got it. I couldn’t tell if washing my clothes mattered because it was winter and I couldn’t wash my coat each time; also, my brother never washed his clothes after visiting Mom, and he never got sick. I don’t know whether this helps you; I only share it because sometimes when I’m in a quandry like this it helps me to know what other prople I know have done.

[Roman Clodia]

With a long Easter weekend coming up does anyone have special reading plans?

I've been waiting for lots of space to finally get to The Lesser Bohemians by Eimear McBride. Having read the sequel (The City Changes Its Face), I know I need quiet time for the writing style and the subject matter.

[Blaine]

She’s on my list, but not yet. Alongside Proust I’m enjoying Theory and Practice and hoping Creation Lake clears my Libby list in time for my flight to Colorado next week.

[Roman Clodia]

Ooh, those are both fantastic books, Ben. I'll be particularly interested in what you think about Creation Lake.