Classics and the Western Canon discussion
James — The Portrait of a Lady
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Week 3 — Chapters 13-16
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None of the parties appear to be "swept away" by amour......
Cphe wrote: "None of the parties appear to be "swept away" by amour......"Isabel is certainly not “swept away”. Because we see the story so much initially through her thoughts and feelings, I think they set the tone rather than the feelings and thoughts of her suitors. And perhaps Isabel’s “fear” reflects a resistance to being “swept away” and a potential loss of independence as Thomas suggested earlier.
I don’t know that I’d say Caspar Goodwood is “swept away” — the description seems too passive for his personality — but his actions and words suggest that he is motivated by love and/or passion. For example, his letter to Isabel in Chapter 11 he says: “I shall always think of you; I shall never think of any one else. I came to England simply because you are here; I couldn't stay at home after you had gone.”
These initial chapters remind me somehow of a fairytale despite their very real world setting and characters. Maybe Isabel feels about her suitors as Goldilocks felt in the three bears’ house — this suitor is too hot (Caspar Goodwood) and this suitor is too cool (Lord Warburton)?
As I read Portrait of a Lady again, I find I want the background of James own life journey as much as his description of Isabell’s.
I am actually perplexed by Henrietta's actions in trying to bring Casper & Isabel together. Both she and Isabel bonded over the desire to be independent, to tour the Continent and eschew male companionship for the time being. I thought that is why they liked each other, so why would she push a suitor onto Isabel when Isabel clearly does not think she is ready to make any kind of marriage commitment?
Chris wrote: "I am actually perplexed by Henrietta's actions in trying to bring Casper & Isabel together. Both she and Isabel bonded over the desire to be independent, to tour the Continent and eschew male compa..."That's a great question. Is it because she thinks Isabel should marry an American? I don't have anything to back that up, but Henrietta does seem to view European culture as something to be observed for its grandeur, but not emulated.
Wondering if for that time period.......Perhaps "intermingling" of the cultures was eschewed by some.American society was perhaps "finding its feet" while the European was firmly lodged in traditions and values......although money was a great leveller.
Lily wrote: "As I read Portrait of a Lady again, I find I want the background of James own life journey as much as his description of Isabell’s."I believe Leon Edel’s multi-volume tome is still considered the best biography, and there is a one-volume version with just the highlights ;). As I’m sure you know, however, “The Portrait of a Lady” is not a particularly autobiographical work.
In this Information Age, there has been an explosion of background information, biography, and criticism on many authors, including Henry James. At times, all that readily available information can take the focus off the work itself. Despite those temptations, I hope in our discussion we can focus on the text and our own thoughts/insights/reactions. And James is definitely one of those authors who evokes strong reactions in his readers — pro and con.
Thomas wrote: "Chris wrote: "I am actually perplexed by Henrietta's actions in trying to bring Casper & Isabel together. Both she and Isabel bonded over the desire to be independent, to tour the Continent and esc..."I think you're right. Doesn't she say as much to Ralph?
Chris wrote: "I am actually perplexed by Henrietta's actions in trying to bring Casper & Isabel together. Both she and Isabel bonded over the desire to be independent, to tour the Continent and eschew male compa..."My best guess is that when Henrietta and Casper travelled to Europe on the same boat, Henrietta heard about Isabel from Casper and drew some conclusions about their past relationship. I believe there are some hints in the text that Isabel has not treated Casper consistently, that perhaps she would have married him if Mrs Touchett hadn’t suddenly appeared to carry her off to Europe. Plus, as pointed out above, Henrietta definitely has a bias towards her own countrymen.
Here’s one passage that indicates Isabel agrees with Henrietta that she hasn’t treated Mr Goodwood consistently:
“Isabel turned about again. 'If you mean that I had any idea with regard to Mr Goodwood—! But she faltered before her friend's implacable glitter.
'My dear child, you certainly encouraged him.'
Isabel made for the moment as if to deny this charge; instead of which, however, she presently answered: 'It's very true. I did encourage him…”. Chapter 11
And here’s Henrietta to Ralph:
“Three months ago she gave Mr Goodwood every reason to suppose he was acceptable to her, and it's not worthy of Isabel to go back on a real friend simply because she has changed the scene. I've changed the scene too, and the effect of it has been to make me care more for my old associations than ever. It's my belief that the sooner Isabel changes it back again the better. I know her well enough to know that she would never be truly happy over here, and I wish her to form some strong American tie that will act as a preservative.'
'Aren't you perhaps a little too much in a hurry?' Ralph en-quired. 'Don't you think you ought to give her more of a chance in poor old England?'
'A chance to ruin her bright young life? One's never too much in a hurry to save a precious human creature from drowning." Chapter 13
Susan wrote: "Despite those temptations, I hope in our discussion we can focus on the text and our own thoughts/insights/reactions...."I suspect many of us are reading or rereading PoaL against the background of the United States recent political campaigns, with the frequent imposition of identity politics and the issues of freedom and rights there around. What I know of Henry James background and careful choice/substitution of details suggests to me that he may well be working out some of his own life experiences vicariously through his characters here. Is that outside the words of the text? Perhaps, or perhaps embedded within them.
In these chapters, various characters offer their perspective on Lord Warburton’s proposal as the word spreads. Isabel tells Mr Touchett, and he tells his wife. Lord Warburton had already informed Mr Touchett of his intentions and then tells Ralph of Isabel’s refusal. Henrietta’s ignorance of what has transpired leads to her not knowing what is wrong during Lord Warburton’s visit. Without mentioning any name/title, Isabel mentions his proposal to Caspar Goodwood. Do the characters in the know agree with Isabel’s decision?
At the same time, Henrietta is trying to assist Caspar Goodwood’s suit by speaking directly to Isabel and by acting behind her back. Thus, Isabel doesn’t know about the invitation to Gardencourt until Mr Goodwood tells her about it during their tete a tete. Henrietta also tips him off about Isabel’s free evening at the London hotel. Why does Henrietta so strongly favor Mr Goodwood’s suit?
Until now, the novel has centered around Gardencourt, but in these chapters, Isabel and Henrietta go up to London. I noticed that their ideas of what they can do on their own conflict with those of Ralph, Mrs Touchett, and Mr Bantling. I also noticed the mention of poor children who Isabel sees in the London parks and gives sixpences to. Did anything stand out for you about their visit in London?