Dickensians! discussion
Nicholas Nickleby - Group Read 6
>
Nicholas Nickleby: Chapters 24 - 36
The most striking thing to me about these last chapters is how completely vulnerable Kate became once her father died. She's in a much worse situation than her brother. There are men everywhere who mean her harm and Dickens is doing a fabulous job of giving us scene after scene showing just that. In the Victorian era women (of Kate's class) needed men to protect them. There are very few (if any) laws that will protect Kate from lecherous men. Her uncle could serve that role . . . and we've seen how that turned out.While I don't like Mrs. Nickleby's behavior, and I wish she would protect Kate more, I also have a hard time seeing her as a villain. She's too silly and naive (as Jean said) to have a villainous heart. I liked how Jean pointed out that Mrs. Nickleby is acting like a typical 19thc. mother - because I had been thinking along those lines as well. Yes, she is self-serving, in that she wants to stop being poor, but she is also just a mom trying to get her daughter into a marriage where she will have money and security.
She reminds me so much of Mrs. Bennett from Pride and Prejudice (minus the "oh, my nerves!" complaint). I wouldn't call Mrs. Bennett a villain, but she was someone who complicated the plot for sure.
I'm also reminded of Mrs. Skewton aka Cleopatra from Dombey and Son. She is more of "grotesque" character than Mrs. Nickleby - and she's more money grubbing than Mrs. Nickleby as well. When I compare these two women Mrs. Nickleby looks like the more loving mother of the two.
Did anyone else wonder why Newman Noggs "cried in a loud and sonorous voice, "Mrs. Nickleby!"? Dickens writes that Noggs wouldn't normally do that. He would normally have silently admitted the visitor until the two gentlemen had exited. But Dickens says Noggs did this on purpose "as if for some private reason of his own". What could that reason be? If Verisohpt and Hawk had left without meeting Mrs. Nickleby, then Kate would be in a safer spot. What is Noggs thinking??
I think the word ‘nuance’ assumes many directions in the novel, and certainly is at the forefront of this chapter. The conversations in this chapter really makes one think. So here are my thoughts Mrs Nickleby is a conundrum. She certainly wants the best for her children although her words and actions often present her as careening around the novel. I ask myself the extent to which Mrs Nickleby wants the best for Kate more than she wants to settle Kate in a position that suits herself more than it would suit her daughter.
Then we have Ralph Nickleby. He has more of a soft spot for Kate than he does for Nicholas. Nevertheless, Ralph is willing to use Kate as a lure to extract more money for himself from Verisopht.
Both Mrs Nickleby and Ralph Nickleby see Kate, at least in part, as a means to satisfy their own goals. This makes Kate a very vulnerable person since she is caught between the wishes of a mother who does care for her — albeit in a very dysfunctional way — and an uncle whose attention towards his niece is more pecuniary than paternal.
Dickens uses this push/pull tension of Kate’s present state as a contrast to Nicholas’s struggles to keep his family safe. We have just seen in the previous chapters how Nicholas has found a secure position with Crummles’s circus. We have witnessed how Nicholas and Smike have increased their connection and faith in each other. Now, in this chapter, the tension with Kate’s predicament is intensified.
As was pointed out by Jean, Ralph locks his ‘iron safe.’ ’ a safe is a place where money is placed. I also see the ‘iron safe’ as a symbol of Ralph’s heart. The chapter ends with Ralph Nickleby’s thoughts concerning Kate: ‘She must take her chances. She must take her chance.’ At this point in the novel I ask myself to what extent Kate is safe from Ralph Nickleby, Sir Mulberry Hawk, Lord Verisopht, and even her own mother.
Ralph's concerns for Kate are not grounded in any relationship he has had with her. He is her uncle, but he has had little (or no) contact with her during her life. He recognizes the innocence and purity in her, but there is no strong pull to protect her as there would be with a father or an uncle who had watched her grow. I think the baser side of him is always at the forefront, so while he realizes he is wrong in putting her in this situation, it is not in his nature to protect or defend anything that goes against his ability to profit. He seems, at this point, like someone who is always going to do what is best for Ralph and damn the consequences. I do not see Mrs. Nickleby as evil, but as foolish and self-centered. She shapes the world into whatever she wants it to be. But, she is not someone who can be relied upon at all. She turned on her husband immediately upon his death, and she did not stand up for Nicholas when he was falsely accused, just as if she did not know the character of both her husband and her son. She cannot be trusted with Kate's future and I hope Nicholas can step in before any irreparable damage is done.
Mod
While thinking of access, thanks Lee for the reminder to tick the notification box ever time we look at a new thread, to ensure updates. I too used to always rely on emails. One extra tip though, you don’t have to carefully go down each (of say 50) comments to find it. Instead, whizz to the bottom of the screen, with all the bumph. Then slowly move up, through the comment box (with the “add to my update feed” bottom right - which I assumed was what you need to tick) and just above it on the right is the one we need go tick, as you say “Notify me when people comment” It is placed at the bottom of all the comments, but since we don’t know if there will be 6 or 60, it’s better to start from the bottom up!
Mod
Bridget - I too was curious at that raised tone of voice by Noggs, as it did not seem at all obvious who this was for, and the narrator affected not to know.
Jim - Such a wise comment that “Quite often it’s the foolish and timid who, through their incompetence or negligence bring ruin upon those who are so unfortunate as to depend upon them to act prudently.”
Charles Dickens already knew human nature very well, and makes use of this in various ways in his stories. Claudia, Sara and others also point out how dangerous Mrs Nickleby is because of this, irrespective of any other motivation she might have.
Mod
One theory I have as to her complexity is that it is because she is based on Charles Dickens’s own mother, Elizabeth. She is not a caricature, despite seeming so sometimes. Charles Dickens does make fun of her silliness and gullibility, and we do have to lay the blame for John Dickens’s impecuniousness largely at his own feet, I think, but he also conveys that Mrs Nickleby - his mother's alter ego -is not unintelligent. Elizabeth Dickens was well educated, not only teaching Dickens to read, but also a little Latin. She was reported as having “an inordinate sense of the ludicrous, and remarkable powers of comic mimicry”. Who does this remind us of?
At this point, we see overwhelming evidence of Mrs Nickleby’s silliness and naivety, as well as a tendency to be vain and unreliable. But her flights of fancy - the "aerial architecture" as described in ch 27 today - are extraordinarily inventive. This shows us already that Mrs Nickleby is not ignorant and has a very creative mind. But we learn more as we read, don’t we, and no doubt will continue to debate her shortcomings. No wonder Elizabeth Dickens doubted that there could ever be such a woman as Mrs Nickleby!
And I particularly enjoyed your quip that Ralph’s intentions might be “more pecuniary than paternal”. Plus the way you contrast Kate and Nicholas's predicaments.
Mod
Charles Dickens plays to the crowd, doesn’t he, and would have loved your passion! He always manipulates our emotions so skilfully, and such a volatile reader would please him no end. He wanted his (stage) audience to boo the villains and cry at the sentimental bits. 👏 The joy of reading Charles Dickens is partly to be taken up with it all, and indulge our feelings in this way. We don’t always want to be analysing: “Now why did he write that?” but sometimes just enjoying the fact that he did. 🥰 We know full well that you have a more considered view too, as you share this with us. The ability to know both responses are equally valid is part of the great pleasure of reading Charles Dickens.
But my job is to add a cautionary note, in case we all get swept away with only seeing an extreme view, and actually miss out on what else Charles Dickens is telling us. 🤔
So let’s move on, enjoying the feelings of indignation, despair, mirth or whatever Charles Dickens will dish out for us today, and also have an eye out for the little asides by the narrator - usually drily ironical in this novel - but which reveal so much.
Mod
Chapter 27: Mrs. Nickleby becomes acquainted with Messrs Pyke and Pluck, whose Affection and Interest are beyond all Bounds
The chapter follows straight on from the previous installment.
Mrs. Nickleby continues building castles in the air, and imagines a life where Kate is Lady Mulberry Hawk. She will be introduced at court. Her portrait, done by a fashionable painter, will appear in the annuals. Perhaps even Mrs Nickleby herself - as the mother of Lady Mulberry Hawk - might also have a portrait of herself in one of the annuals, painted by an eminent painter such as Sir Dingleby Dabber.
“With such triumphs of aerial architecture did Mrs. Nickleby occupy the whole evening”
The next day the servant tells her that two gentlemen are here to see her, and Mrs Nickleby’s thoughts are so preoccupied with the two gentlemen she has been introduced to, that she scolds the servant and asks for them to be sent straight up. In fact though, it is Mr. Pyke and Mr. Pluck who have paid a call to her, telling her that they are friends of Sir Mulberry Hawk. They praise the virtues of Mulberry Hawk and Mr Pluck “accidentally” reveals that Sir Mulberry Hawk is "in love" with Miss Nickleby.
Mr. Pyke and Mr. Pluck tell Mrs. Nickleby that Sir Mulberry Hawk has asked them to call on her to make sure she was well. Mrs Nickleby is very gracious, while they heap extravagant praise on her, and she rambles on. Then they come to the point. Sir Mulberry Hawk has sent them to extend an invitation to her to come to a play that night. Mrs. Nickleby is reluctant, but they reassure her that others, including her brother-in-law will be there.
Mr Pluck goes on to tell her that Mulberry Hawk is enslaved to her daughter - but that Mr Pyke must not overhear this, or he would be out of a job. Mr Pyke, wandering round the room notices Kate’s portrait on the mantel of the fireplace; the miniature which had been painted by Miss La Creevy.
“Affectionate Behaviour of Messrs. Pyke and Pluck” - Hablot K. Browne (Phiz) - December 1838
The two men go onto ecstasies at Kate’s beauty and start kissing it.
“Affectionate Behaviour of Messrs. Pyke and Pluck” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875
Gradually Mrs Nickleby comes round to the idea of going out to the play.
“Mr. Pyke finds the miniature of Kate Nickleby” - Harry Furniss - 1910
She launches into a long description of her past home, and everything she has lost, while Mr. Pyke sends round to the public-house for a pot of milk half-and-half.
The narrator comments that:
“gentlemen who, like Messrs Pyke and Pluck, live upon their wits (or not so much, perhaps, upon the presence of their own wits as upon the absence of wits in other people) are occasionally … accustomed to regale themselves in a very simple and primitive manner.”
As they leave, Mrs. Nickleby congratulates herself on her “pretty tolerable share of penetration and acuteness … she had never felt so satisfied with her own sharp-sightedness as she did that day” and goes through in her mind how it had all come about. She is pleased to know that Mulberry Hawk is in love with her daughter, but wishes she could confide in someone. She thinks of Miss La Creevy, but now that Kate might marry Mulberry Hawk, Miss La Creevy is too lowly in status to be a companion to Mrs. Nickleby, “Poor thing!”. She satisfies herself with dropping hints to her servant girl, who is impressed.
A private coach picks her up that evening, and Mr. Pyke and Mr. Pluck greet her at the theatre to escort her to her box. Ralph Nickleby is not there, but Sir Mulberry Hawk and Lord Verisopht join her:
“arrayed from the crowns of their heads to the tips of their gloves, and from the tips of their gloves to the toes of their boots, in the most elegant and costly manner … both being to a trifling extent unsteady upon their legs”
Mulberry Hawk say that they have been toasting her lovely daughter.
“Oh, ho!’ thought that knowing lady; ‘wine in, truth out.—You are very kind, Sir Mulberry.’”
There is much light banter, and then Sir Mulberry Hawk quietens, them having recognised Kate’s voice in the next box. She has come with the Wititterlys.
Kate is astonished to see her mother there, and shrinks back at the sight of Sir Mulberry Hawk:
“she turned extremely pale and appeared greatly agitated, which symptoms being observed by Mrs. Nickleby, were at once set down by that acute lady as being caused and occasioned by violent love.”
Mrs. Wititterly glories in “having a lord and a baronet among her visiting acquaintance” and straightaway indicates that Mrs. Nickleby should join her, so Mrs. Nickleby goes to the Wititterlys’ box with the gentlemen in tow. She insists that Kate greets Sir Mulberry Hawk, who holds her hand far longer than necessary, and fawns over her.
“to complete the young lady’s mortification, she was compelled at Mrs. Wititterly’s request to perform the ceremony of introducing the odious persons, whom she regarded with the utmost indignation and abhorrence.”
Kate is forced to spend the evening in Sir Mulberry Hawk’s company,, while the Wititterlys do their best to make a good impression on the aristocrats:
“‘I’m always ill after Shakespeare,’ said Mrs. Wititterly. ‘I scarcely exist the next day; I find the reaction so very great after a tragedy, my lord,”
while Mrs Nickleby indulges in her long ruminations, this time about going to the theatre at Stratford:
“I recollect that all night long I dreamt of nothing but a black gentleman, at full length, in plaster-of-Paris, with a lay-down collar tied with two tassels, leaning against a post and thinking;”
She was expecting at the time, and having learned it was Shakespeare she had dreamt of, said to Mrs Wititterly:
“it was quite a mercy, ma’am, … that my son didn’t turn out to be a Shakespeare, and what a dreadful thing that would have been!”
Sir Mulberry Hawk tries to keep Kate from leaving at the end of the night, aided by “the manoeuvres of Messrs Pyke and Pluck”. She tells him that she holds him in:
“the bitterest detestation and contempt … ‘If no regard for my sex or helpless situation will induce you to desist from this coarse and unmanly persecution …—‘I have a brother who will resent it dearly, one day.’”.
He finds that he is even more attracted to her when she is angry. The four men laugh heartily together after the carriages have left, and we learn that Sir Mulberry Hawk had discovered where Kate was to be that evening by bribing a servant. He is pleased that his scheme had worked, but Lord Verisopht complains about being left with “the old woman” all night. Sir Mulberry Hawk pretends that he has been “sounding your praises in her ears, and bearing her pretty sulks and peevishness all night for you” whereupon:
“the poor young lord, taking his friend’s arm [says] ‘Upon my life you’re a deyvlish good fellow, Hawk.’”
Sir Mulberry Hawk winks and gives a contemptuous smile to Messrs Pyke and Pluck:
“who, cramming their handkerchiefs into their mouths to denote their silent enjoyment of the whole proceedings, followed their patron and his victim at a little distance.”
Mod
Yet again the later artists chose to illustrate the same scene that Charles Dickens had instructed Hablot Knight Browne to!
“half and half” - the drink Pyke sent out for, is a drink made by mixing 2 malt liquors. It does not sound very refined, but perhaps Mrs Nickleby is oblivious to this. After all, "
the poor lady exulted in the idea that she was marvellously sly" 😆
I liked the sound of “smifligate” - a new word for me - which in English slang apparently means to destroy or annihilate (humorous - from the 18th century)
“an Italian image boy” - Prominent street vendors of the time were Italian boys who carried boards on their heads, with cheap plaster figures of objects such as cats and parrots, and famous people, for sale.
Mod
“is a most extraordinary cure. I used it for the first time, I recollect, the day after Christmas Day, and by the middle of April following the cold was gone. It seems quite a miracle when you come to think of it, for I had it ever since the beginning of September.”
but topping this for me is about the vehicle to take Mrs Nickleby to the theatre, which was:
“a private chariot, having behind it a footman, whose legs, although somewhat large for his body, might, as mere abstract legs, have set themselves up for models at the Royal Academy.” 🤣
This is the Royal Academy of Arts chartered in 1768 with Sir Joshua Reynolds as it first president. At this time it ran schools for painters and sculptors, including studies from live models. We mentioned this before with regard to Miss La Creevy, who would have be disbarred from such tuition - or from exhibiting there - by virtue of being female.
Mod
It’s an amusing chapter, written primarily for our entertainment, with as Paul pointed out, the well-named Pyke and Pluck preparing their victim. However, we can see Charles Dickens cranking up the tension, and see how concerned with appearances Mrs Wittiterly is, and how easily Mrs Nickleby is taken in. This is where her influence on Kate is indeed proving dangerous, as Claudia, Lori and Jim surmised it might be.
As Bridget said, Kate has little to no protection and is surrounded by men who have no wish for her safety, but only wish to serve their own ends.
What a chapter! I burst into a laugh when the two parties "unexpectedly" met. In the preceding chapter Mr Noggs announcing loudly Mrs Nickleby reminded me of frequent coincidences in some plays by Molière. This time I was reminded of Rabbi Jacob, a film with Louis de Funès, with similar situations. (As the late Queen Elizabeth said in her last Christmas wishes, one of those films we have seen many times but we still laugh as if we watched it for the first time). I could vividly picture the scene of Kate with the Wittiterlies freezing and nearly choking when she met Mrs Nickleby with her nobilities.
That was the highest comical effect but it is, of course, much more dramatic for Kate beneath the surface.
At this point in the proceedings, let us be thankful that Kate’s fate is being devised by Charles Dickens and not by Thomas Hardy! Comparison of Mrs. Nickleby with Mrs. Durbeyfield is unavoidable, each dazzled by delusions of grandeur, unknowingly doing her best to aid in her daughter’s downfall. Dickens however, was no fatalist and had, unlike Hardy, retained a belief in the possibility of a better world, one where even a Ralph Nickleby or an Ebenezer Scrooge might, given the right inducements, seek redemption.
Jim wrote: "At this point in the proceedings, let us be thankful that Kate’s fate is being devised by Charles Dickens and not by Thomas Hardy! Comparison of Mrs. Nickleby with Mrs. Durbeyfield is unavoidable, ..."Oh my, your well-timed comment gave me a great laugh, Jim. I love Hardy, but am grateful Kate is in Dickens' hands!
Ch 25, Message 21Kathleen C wrote: "What struck me the most was the feeling Dickens is able to convey of what it's like to be around theatre people. I never did any a..."I agree, Kathleen. I am not at all familiar with the theater, but these recent chapters allowed me to imagine the excitement and perhaps also the chaos of these theater productions. No wonder Dickens felt so at-home in the theater!
I also appreciate your comment, Jim! So very true and I definitely see the comparisons between these two women.Somehow I missed that Pyke(or is it Pluck?) revealed being in love with Kate. And does Mulberry Hawk actually like her or is he playing at something? He had a servant find out where Kate would be that evening and then devised to have her mother attend so they could “happen to show up” together. Sounds as if he’s scheming but is it for himself or for Verisohft?
Message 34 Bionic Jean wrote: "The installment we have just finished was published in November 1838. . . I think this may well have been the performance where he apparently got out of his seat, and lay down on the floor in his box, to appreciate it more!."Do you mean to say he laid down on the floor because he was laughing so uproarishly? Those audiences must have been out of control (to modern tastes)!
Lori wrote: And does Mulberry Hawk actually like her or is he playing at something? ..."Oh my goodness, Jim, you made me laugh aloud with that comment about Hardy! So true!!
As for Lori's questions about Sir Hawk, those are good questions, and I don't know if my answer will be correct, but the way I'm interpreting Sir Hawk is that he is mad about being rejected by Kate, and he's also mad that Ralph Nickleby wanted the Lord instead of him. So I think his motive is vengence. I keep thinking back to this line in Chapter 26 where the narrator says of Sir Hawk
"as the desire of encountering the usurer's niece again, and using his utmost arts to reduce her pride, and revenge himself for her contempt, was uppermost in his thoughts"
But maybe he's also motivated by just taking more of Lord Verisopht's money.
Mod
"‘Mrs. Nickleby cannot be ignorant,’ said Mr. Pluck, ‘of the immense impression which that sweet girl has—’
‘Pluck!’ said his friend, ‘beware!’
(view spoiler)
Mr Pluck is pretending that he nearly let the car out of the bag about Sir Mulberry Hawk's "being in love" with Kate, and Mr Pyke interrupts him. It continues:
(view spoiler)
It is all, of course, a carefully planned bit of misdirection.
I'll add Sir Mulberry Hawk's name to the summary to make it clearer.
Lee - Yes! Of course in a private box he would not be visible on the floor ... but even so! 😲 😂
Bionic Jean wrote: "Pimping? For more information and to decide if this is correct usage, the definitive work is Henry Mayhew's London Labour and the London Poor, which was written just a..." AND "Procuresses, Pimps, and Panders".Oh, Jean, those two articles make me so very sad! And they show the London Charles Dickens portrayed was accurate - in fact, he toned it down for polite readings! One of those articles compared the first half of the 19th century London to a 3rd world country today!
I have read biographies of Queen Victoria and they only glossed over the social injustices of her days. But I want someone to blame yet I don't know enough about England's political and social systems to know who to blame!
Dickens did everything a man could do to fight these horrors by his speeches and many writings. But at some point, he had to give up to find any semblance of happiness. No wonder his readings consumed him at the end of his life. They allowed him to re-enact social ills but through the softening veil of fiction.
One final word, and perhaps my favorite quotation from Ch 26, albeit chilling. Dickens ends this chapter with a short sentence from Ralph about his niece. "She must take her chance".
Mod
Good interpretation! He wants to bring her down to size, plus of course he lusts after Kate for himself. I would expect his aim is to force himself on her, and then pass her on to Lord Verisopht, and thereby put Ralph Nickleby even more in his debt.
But the thing about Sir Mulberry Hawk's type of villainy, is that he will change his plans according to what happens, and what will suit him best as a result. He is one of the many people in London who Charles Dickens tells us lives on their wits.
Mod
Mod
It does send a shiver down our spines, doesn't it?
I had wondered about us reading Henry Mayhew's book as a group, but 4 volumes is such a commitment. There's no doubt thought that it would bring home the terrible conditions Charles Dickens campaigned about. We tend to look at them through rose-coloured glasses now, when watching dramatisations of his stories. However grubby and threadbare he can make the actors look, they cannot seem to be starving and malformed.
(I meant to say, I love your new profile pic!)
Paul wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "So his characters should not appear as one-sided and caricatured as you are representing them, but more nuanced. So not motivated "purely on self-interest and financial gain" - ..."Regarding messages 45-50. I totally respect your reminding us, Jean that Dickens intended his characters to be nuanced.
I'm going to be stubborn here and say that up to THIS point in his novel, he failed: Ralph is selling, pimping his niece: . . . "while there is money to be made." If Charles Dickens nuanced his portrayal of Ralph by having him say "I wish . . . I had never done this", Dickens smashed the character in the following sentences. "Selling a girl -- throwing her in the way of temptation, and insult, and coarse speech. . . . Psaw! match-making mothers do the same thing every day.""
I agree Ralph is rationalizing his behavior towards Kate, but he is admitting to himself that what he is doing might well profit him in the near future. He is evil! And yes -- it is Charles Dickens's first attempt at a fully-fledged novel. I give him space - enormous space and time - for perfecting his art!
May I suggest also that I agree Ralph is not a "pimp" as we might define one, but that Dickens metaphorically implies that the dreadful dangers single women of lower or modest class like Kate are ALL in danger of succumbing to prostitution?
Jim - love your comment regarding Hardy. This would indeed be a different novel in his hands.I find myself wanting to laugh at what is going on, and unable to because I keep coming back to how it is likely to affect poor Kate. These men, as a group, are despicable. I cannot help thinking the fictional Kate may escape, but most real women of the time, put in this position, would not.
My favorite quote:
"...in explanations of which seeming marvel it may be here observed, that gentlemen who, like Messrs Pyke and Pluck, live upon their wits (or not so much, perhaps, upon the presence of their own wits as upon the absence of wits in other people) are occasionally reduced to very narrow shifts and straits..."
When reading it, I could not help thinking that Mrs. Nickleby was the ideal mark for Pyke and Pluck's trade.
The chapters with what I might call “madcap adventures” are not my favorites. I keep reminding myself that Dickens enjoys them and that they are an important part of the what he wants to write and agreed to write. For me, they get in the way of what I want this book to be, which is a serious novel. So, I tolerate them and try to appreciate them. :-)
Thank you Jean and Bridget for the explanations. I’m definitely not liking Mulberry at all and I see now what is happening. Basically he’s out for himself at whatever cost. I sure don’t want to see anything terrible happen to Kate. I’m glad that she’s not naive and puts him in his place.
Kathleen, I have a similar problem with madcap chapters and characters like Mrs Nickleby who seem to exist only to further the advances of the villains. I took no pleasure that Kate got away at the end of this chapter for she was let away, it seemed to me. I doubt anyone there would have considered Hawk a demon for spending more of the evening with her, in spite of the rules of propriety. After all nobility was involved!
Sara wrote: ", that gentlemen who, like Messrs Pyke and Pluck, live upon their wits (or not so much, perhaps, upon the presence of their own wits as upon the absence of wits in other people) "My favourite quotation from the chapter as well. It might be said that the success of many present day politicians owes much to this philosophy. And "pick" and "pluck" might also represent the motivations of these same politicians towards society and their constituents.
Sara wrote: "Jim - love your comment regarding Hardy. This would indeed be a different novel in his hands.I find myself wanting to laugh at what is going on, and unable to because I keep coming back to how it..."
As we digress into imagining how Thomas Hardy might have treated a character like Mrs Nickleby, I couldn't help but recall the four lead characters in THE RETURN OF THE NATIVE as examples of how he might have portrayed his version of Mrs Nickleby. Eustacia Vye, Damon Wildeve, Thomasina Yeobright, and Clym Yeobright - a reader's choice as to which of the four was the the most intensely narcissistic and unthinkingly selfish..
Lori wrote: "Thank you Jean and Bridget for the explanations. I’m definitely not liking Mulberry at all and I see now what is happening. Basically he’s out for himself at whatever cost. I sure don’t want to see..."Definitely a total villain of almost melodramatic comic intensity. Imagine a Snidely Whiplash twirling his mustache, laughing maniacally, and tying a hapless Kate to the railway tracks awaiting an oncoming train! And yet, for all of that, Dickens manages to effectively portray the misogyny and self-serving hypocrisy built in to the fabric of upper crust male Victorian society.
Mod
Mod
The narrator tells us that Sir Mulberry Hawk is a:
“systematic and calculating man of dissipation, whose joys, regrets, pains, and pleasures, are all of self”
He reflects the next day on how attractive Kate Nickleby is. He is certain he can conquer her shyness, and such a conquest would elevate his reputation in his small circle.
“Thus, cases of injustice, and oppression, and tyranny, and the most extravagant bigotry, are in constant occurrence among us every day.”
Mrs. Nickleby’s reflections are proud and complacent, and she writes a long letter to Kate about her approval of Kate’s choice, saying that Sir Mulberry Hawk is exactly the sort of man Mrs. Nickleby had envisioned as her son-in-law. She gives Kate advice about courtship, praising Kate for behaving appropriately the night before, and “hints of the pleasure she derived from the knowledge that her daughter inherited so large an instalment of her own excellent sense and discretion.”
Kate has not slept for crying all night, and now receives these 4 closely written and almost illegible pages from her mother. Moreover she is forced to be agreeable and act as if she is in good spirits for Mrs. Wititterly, who is fatigued after the evening’s exertions. Mr. Wititterly is in good spirits: happy to have been introduced to a lord, whom he had invited to his home.
Kate has been reading a very boring fashionable book to Mrs. Wititterly, and is glad to put it down when Mrs. Wititterly wants to pause, and not disturb the impression of such a “poetic” description. She comments on Kate being pale, and Kate says it is due to the startling events the night before, which surprises her employer:
“And certainly, when one comes to think of it, it was very odd that anything should have disturbed a companion. A steam-engine, or other ingenious piece of mechanism out of order, would have been nothing to it.”
Mrs. Wititterly then asks where Kate had met Lord Frederick and the other wonderful gentlemen whom they had met the night before. Kate answers that she met them through her uncle, but that she hasn’t known them for long. She is vexed and knows that she is colouring deeply, but cannot help it whenever she thinks of “that man”. Mrs Wititterly pretends that she as just about to be introduced to them anyway, by some mutual friends, but this boast is lost on Kate.
Mrs Wititterly was just saying that of course she had given them permission to call, when Mr. Pyke, and Mr. Pluck as well as Sir Mulberry Hawk and Lord Verisopht arrive, apparently surprised that the two groups had called together. Kate tries to flee, but Mrs Wititterly detains her. She is delighted to see them:
“Mrs. Wititterly, who, by dint of lying on the same sofa for three years and a half, had got up quite a little pantomime of graceful attitudes, and now threw herself into the most striking of the whole series, to astonish the visitors.”
Lord Frederick sucks the head of his cane in silence, and stares at Kate, while Sir Mulberry Hawk spouts nonsense, smoothly flattering both women. Mrs. Wititterly begins to wonder if Mulberry Hawk is quite as delightful as she had thought, when he bothers to spends all his time flattering Kate. However, Mr. Pyke and Mr. Pluck begin to concentrate their flattery on her, saying that she reminds them of a certain countess (whom they do not name). Mrs Wititterly is delighted and preens herself:
“This was one of the consequences of getting into good society. Why, she might have moved among grovelling people for twenty years, and never heard of it. How could she, indeed? what did they know about countesses? …
Meanwhile, Lord Verisopht enjoyed unmolested the full flavour of the gold knob at the top of his cane“
and Kate has to endure Sir Mulberry Hawk’s attentions.
Mr Wititterly keeps talking about how honoured and proud he feels that they have called, but his wife is irritated by how her husband is reacting to the guests. His joy betrays the fact that they do not entertain such illustrious people on a daily basis, which is what she wants people to believe.
Sir Mulberry Hawk and his companions become regular visitors and affect to meet them accidentally at many places, much to Kate’s misery.
“Upon all these occasions Miss Nickleby was exposed to the constant and unremitting persecution of Sir Mulberry Hawk”
who constantly chips away at her pride with his coarse and vulgar manners. Each day for a fortnight, her only relief is to weep quietly in her room. The narrator says that almost anyone could have seen how, notwithstanding that they were a lord and a baronet, the two men:
“were not persons accustomed to be the best possible companions, and were certainly not calculated by habits, manners, tastes, or conversation, to shine with any very great lustre in the society of ladies”.
Yet Mrs Wititterly considers them to be great men, interpreting their coarseness as humour, vulgarity as charming eccentricity, and insolence as an easy, relaxed attitude.
What could Kate do, says the narrator, if her employer accepted these odious men? And as time went on, Mrs Wititterly becomes jealous of Kate, who is favoured by Sir Mulberry Hawk. It is obvious that she is the one he comes to see, and so it is necessary for Kate to be around. She is not allowed to retreat from the company. Yet Mrs Wititterly resents being chosen as second place to her servant, and starts treating Kate badly in private, which makes Kate’s life even more miserable.
Mrs. Wititterly finally accuses Kate of being forward with the men, and is offended when Kate tells her the accusations are unjust.
“I say it is vilely, grossly, wilfully untrue. Is it possible!’ cried Kate, ‘that anyone of my own sex can have sat by, and not have seen the misery these men have caused me?”
Moreover Kate accuses Mrs Wititterly of being blind to the men’s outrageous behaviour, which is disrespectful to herself:
“Is it possible that you can have avoided seeing, that these libertines, in their utter disrespect for you, and utter disregard of all gentlemanly behaviour, and almost of decency, have had but one object in introducing themselves here, and that the furtherance of their designs upon a friendless, helpless girl”
and that she had hoped for sympathy and help from someone so much her senior. At the remark that she was held in disregard by the gentlemen, followed by the remark concerning her seniority, Mrs. Wititterly is thrown into hysterics, and Sir Tumley Snuffim has to sedate her. Mr. Wititterly blames the visitor and Kate for taxing his wife’s “soul”.
“Julia Wititterly in need of medical attention” - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875
Meanwhile, Ralph Nickleby has had a good day of business, and is pacing his room,
“His mouth was drawn into a hard stern smile; [with] the firmness of the lines and curves that made it up, as well as the cunning glance of his cold, bright eye,”
as he mentally calculates all the money he has made.
Newman Noggs interrupts to tells him that his niece has called, and Ralph deliberately hides his cashbox, leaving an empty purse on show before he allows Kate to be admitted.
He greets her with “something more of kindness in his manner than he would have exhibited towards anybody else”, and easily guesses the cause when he sees her weeping, and thinks:
“Where is the harm? only a few tears; and it’s an excellent lesson for her, an excellent lesson.”
Kate accuses him of cruelly putting her in the path of men he knew to be scoundrels. Ralph “drew back in utter amazement at this plain speaking” and says that he sees some of Nicholas’s temper in Kate.Kate would be proud to think so, and says she: “will not, as I am your brother’s child, bear these insults longer.”
Kate apologises for being angry, but she is very unhappy, and says she is sure he must help her. She has gone on, day after day, hoping the persecution would cease. She has nobody to protect her:
“Mama supposes that these are honourable men, rich and distinguished, and how can I—how can I undeceive her—when she is so happy in these little delusions, which are the only happiness she has?”
She cannot confide in the lady Ralph Nickleby had placed her with. She begs for his help as the only friend she can turn to.
Ralph says he cannot help her. It is a matter of business. Even if, as she thinks, he has influence over one of the men, he cannot risk offending someone with whom he does business. He tells her that many girls would be flattered by the attention:
“If this young lord does dog your footsteps, and whisper his drivelling inanities in your ears, what of it?”
He is sure that their attentions will cease when a new novelty crosses their path.
Kate refuses to be put in this position. Women will scorn her and men will harass her. Good people will consider her a disgrace, which will harm her prospects in society and in getting a husband. She will not allow her self-esteem to suffer. She vows to support herself, even if she has to do “the roughest and hardest labour”; she will have peace of mind, at least. She vows to avoid her uncle and these men in the future.
As Kate leaves: “Ralph Nickleby [stands] motionless as a statue.”
Newman Noggs has been eavesdropping at the door, and is very affected:
“‘Don’t cry, don’t cry.’ Two very large tears, by-the-bye, were running down Newman’s face as he spoke”
but adds that it was right not to give way before “him”.
“Mr. Noggs Goes Through a Little Performance” - Fred Barnard - 1895
“”I see how it is,“ said poor Noggs, drawing from his pocket what seemed to be a very old duster, and wiping Kate’s eye with it as gently as if she were an infant.”
Noggs reassures Kate that he and someone else will see her soon, and tries to nod cheerfully as he sees her out. We are told that:
“Ralph felt no remorse at that moment for his conduct towards the innocent, true-hearted girl; although his libertine clients had done precisely what he had expected, precisely what he most wished, and precisely what would tend most to his advantage, still he hated them for doing it, from the very bottom of his soul.”
He vows that they will pay for this.
Meanwhile in the outer room, Newman Noggs punches the air, pretending it is Ralph Nickleby at the end of his fists.
Mod
Silver Fork Novels
I think we’ve had mention of this before, but here we have an extended parody of these, which I actually found so funny that I read it aloud to Chris. 😂
With the fictitious “The Lady Flabella” Charles Dickens is satirising the formulaeic novels of fashionable aristocratic life, known as “silver fork fiction” very much in vogue between 1820 and 1845. The genre was named “silver fork fiction” by William Hazlitt in 1827, after the upper-class practice of eating fish with two silver forks. It aimed to depict elegant and aristocratic manners in detail. From what we read here, we can see that the most sumptuous language is used, where everything is luxurious and gorgeous.
Any ideas which genre we have today which might compare with this? “Chick lit?” Or better, “Fluff fiction” perhaps?
Mod
Marriage Dowries
A dowry as you will know, is a payment made by the bride’s family to the groom or his family at the time of marriage. In England this was usually money, or land property, and sometimes commercial assets. An unmarried woman could hold property, but as we noted before, there is the law of coverture, when on her marriage all a woman’s property would automatically transfer to her husband. We see many instances of this in Victorian fiction.
We can see here in chapter 28, that Kate, like Nicholas, has a very definitive view of herself as the daughter of a gentleman: i.e. how she should behave, and the courtesies which should be afforded to her in English society at this time. The problem for her is that she has no dowry. It had been routine for centuries, during Regency and Georgian England, and was still important during the Victorian Age. Having no dowry, or not sufficient dowry, was enough for a marriage to be called off. It was not to be abolished for another 42 years, with the Married Women’s Property Act of 1870.
Marriages were no longer always arranged as such, but were mostly made amongst similar if not identical classes. It was frowned upon to marry outside one’s class. Therefore Mrs Nickleby is fantasising if she thinks Kate can move into the nobility, just because she is pretty and intelligent. It may have been acceptable if she had enough of a dowry, but not as she is.
For the upper and middle classes, dowries were viewed as an early payment of the daughter’s inheritance. The dowry was normally given in the form of money, and depending on the wealth of the family, a good amount was normally given. Kate would have nothing, and therefore has no value in the marriage stakes.
Her mother wants the best possible social marriage for her daughter; and any one which would thereby increase her own social standing would be a bonus.
The only reason Ralph thinks he can ignore the question of dowry with Kate, is because Lord Verisopht is beholden to him for money anyway, so he would doubtless plan to make it part of any new contract either implied or concrete.
This is the 19th century English view. We may be shocked, and consider a dowry as treating a woman as a commodity, with a necessary added inducement of money to keep her in the life to which she is accustomed (although in some parts of the world dowries do still exist).
But this group is very good at taking on board the 19th century lens, accepting not only melodrama and sentiment - which is a rare skill in modern readers - but also all the social mores to do with gender and class. We don't use our 21st century cynicism to jeer, or take umbrage at 19th century attitudes. So here's a heartfelt plea. I’m sincerely hoping for a mental adjustment in anyone (I've no idea how many) who persists in the inaccurate, ridiculous notion of “pimping out” Kate, which is American slang for a 21st century attitude and concept, alien to the 19th century mind. Let's "spiflicate" it, once and for all! 😆 There is a subtle, but all-important difference in historical attitude, which is a fact, not an opinion.
Mod
It does not seem judgemental either way, but is interesting ...
Mod
“it was a production admirably suited to a lady labouring under Mrs. Wititterly’s complaint, seeing that there was not a line in it, from beginning to end, which could, by the most remote contingency, awaken the smallest excitement in any person breathing.”
And I did love the appellation “Alphonse the doubtful” 😂
Mod
May I put on record that I loathe and detest Mrs Julia Wititterly, and can see not one shred of humanity in her false “soul”. She is far worse than the similar poseur, Madame Mantalini. And the illustration by Fred Barnard, of Newman Noggs drying Kate’s eyes is about my favourite so far. It’s so tender. But what of poor Kate, whose situation now seems impossible.
Today Ralph seems to be wrestling with his conscience. I wonder if his hard-hearted mercenary nature will subdue it again. We need to look at all the narrator’s descriptions of him carefully, to see if this is any less ambiguous. At the moment he seems consumed with wanting revenge, completely blaming his aristocratic clients.
I look forward to your thoughts on this chapter.
Bionic Jean wrote: "And a little more …Silver Fork Novels
I think we’ve had mention of this before, but here we have an extended parody of these, which I actually found so funny that I read it aloud to Chris. 😂
Wi..."
Well, first an element of humour. Chic Lit and the like are genres of novel I have not drifted into. As for a phrase that sums up a genre of literature I find amusing is the phrase “Bodice Ripper’ which sums up novels that focus on beefy, muscular men and alluring women who are always seen in passionate embraces on the book covers.
First, this was an enormous and lengthly chapter which, to be honest, I found to be full of sound and fury but signified very little. You survived, Jean! 😊 The chapter is, as Jean noted, partly a silver spoon novel in texture. The chapter also covers much of the manoeuvrings of the socially advantaged. I do see how Dickens further develops and contrasts the pride and resolute nature of Kate to the sinister character motives of Ralph Nickleby and those who orbit around him.
In total, however, I found the chapter to be more filler than substance. It’s surprising length suggests to me that Dickens was pausing, perhaps even wondering how to proceed. In Dickens later novels, from ‘Dombey and Son’ onward, Dickens made plans, sometimes meticulous plans for his chapters. Could it be this chapter is one where the obligations of ‘Oliver Twist’ compounded by the pressures of NN created a soft zone in Dickens’s writing.
Twice we read that Verisopht enjoyed unmolested the full flavour of the gold nob at the top of his cane. I also note that the word ‘soft’ is repeated in this chapter. Dickens balances the word soft and Verisopht’s actions with Ralph’s action of putting his ‘padlocked cash-box on the table, and substituted in its stead an empty purse.’
Hard and soft. The empty purse can be contrasted to the sucking of the gold nob of Verisopht’s cane. Delightful details and style that makes this chapter worth reading.
The most important in my opinion is that Kate was wrongly accused by her employer of being too forward with those men who definitely are after her, not the other way around, and allow themselves (Sir Mulberry first of all) to be pushy. Mrs Wittiterly is after all very vulgar. We meet another instance of such vulgarity and debauchery in The Tenant of Wildfell Hall where upper classes and aristocrats are united in addictive behaviours.This kind of false accusation is as old as the world: Genesis 39 offers us the example of Joseph, himself a good looking Hebrew slave, not yielding to his master's wife (Potiphar's wife) and then imprisoned after she had accused him of rape attempt.
Sara wrote: "Jim - love your comment regarding Hardy. This would indeed be a different novel in his hands.I find myself wanting to laugh at what is going on, and unable to because I keep coming back to how it..."
Commenting on comment #77 (I have not read chapter 28 yet) - Good point Sara, that the fictional Kate's chances are much better than they would have been in real life. Women of the time were dependent on the men in their lives for protection. With Nicholas not nearby, there are no men in Kate's life who have any interest in protecting her.
I also liked the quote you picked out.
Oh goodness, Jean, you and I are on the same page regarding Mrs. Wititterly. I wanted to strangle her and I loved that Kate spoke out instead of taking that lying down. Jealousy! Add to that the distress of reading a 4-page letter from your mother that makes it clear she is clueless as to what is transpiring (and wishes to be).I kept thinking how difficult it would have been for Kate to even go and broach this subject with her uncle and then to be treated so horribly...thank heaven for Newman Noggs. He is certainly the ray of hope in this chapter.
Bionic Jean wrote: " I’m sincerely hoping for a mental adjustment in anyone (I've no idea how many) who persists in the inaccurate, ridiculous notion of “pimping out” Kate, which is American slang for a 21st century attitude and concept, alien to the 19th century mind."I will insist in my belief that attempting to find a marriage for Kate and simply eliminating the habitual necessity for a dowry by virtue of Verisopht's indebtedness to Nickleby was NOT his motive.
That bacchanalian night of the debauch when Hawk molested Kate the first time and Ralph stopped him, Hawk actually said, "You would sell your flesh and blood for money"! And Ralph admitted as much, "... I brought her here as a matter of business ..."!
In short, while Nickleby's malicious conduct may have been tempered by some deeply hidden and virtually ignored familial emotions, there is no way that that conduct was informed or motivated by his relationship to Kate. Indeed, it was his relationship that offered him the opportunity to hold her out as bait to Verisopht with the unintended result of snagging Mulberry Hawk on the same hook.
You may use whatever word you wish to describe that but I know what word I'll choose.
I have to disagree about this chapter being "filler". It seems to be advancing the plot. The actions of Sir Mulberry Hawk and his friends intensify until they cause a confrontation between Mrs. Wititterly and Kate. This finally pushes Kate to put her foot down and declare to her uncle that she will not see the men any more. These events will certainly lead to something. Kate's employers are both angry at her. Will they continue to employ her, especially if she refuses to entertain their esteemed guests? How will Sir Mulberry Hawk react? Noggs told Kate that somebody will see her soon. Is that somebody NIcholas, and if so, what will he do? If Nicholas does not show up, what will happen to Kate and her mother if Kate is no longer employed by the Wititterlys?
Mod
But I was surprised that you consider this chapter as filler, as when I was summarising it (which necessitates several close reads, as you know) I became aware of just how carefully it was written, to show as you say, the "manoeuvrings of the socially advantaged". We also have Mrs Nickleby's self-delusions, the hilarious parody of silver fork novels, the emotionally charged scene with Kate declaiming to her mealy mouthed uncle, Ralph's own arguments with himself as he justifies what he knows to be shameful behaviour morally, as good for business, plus all the fanciful details like Lord Verisopht sucking the gold knob on his cane - representing the dummy he is! Yes Katy I too think it advances the plot - and my only complaint is that I wish it had been split into two chapters. Our next installment has four chapters, and perhaps this one should have as well.
Yes, Peter perhaps Charles Dickens was not quite sure how to proceed. He could be doing that almost any time though 🤔 I'm pleased that people are not coming up with ideas about foreshadowing, as of course in an unplanned novel that does not make much sense. Charles Dickens had a few inklings of general story arcs - not many - so there are just a few telegraphed.
It is so different from Dombey and Son, as you say. When we read that we also read quite a few of his "mems", knowing that it was the first time he had used them. We also compared various editions, as Charles Dickens had written a few changes. (There's a major one in Nicholas Nickleby which I'm sure you will know, but we're not at that point yet.) It was fascinating to see the author's mind at work, and several of the group decided that Dombey and Son was their favourite Dickens novel. It does seem to represent a change in constructing his novels, doesn't it, on the cusp of his hefty middle ones.
Anyway, I personally enjoyed this chapter very much! We all seem to be enjoying different ones, don't we 😊
Marvelous summary, Jean, of an incredibly long chapter!! I didn't notice the use of "old" and "young" repeatedly, until you pointed that out. That's what comes from reading this long chapter more than once!I also loved the illustrations. I had only seen the one by Phiz, and I agree the illustration of Noggs and Kate is very tender and moving.
One of my favorite moments in this chapter was the vignette at the end where Noggs fantasizes about fighting Ralph Nickleby by "air boxing" him. It was a nice bit of comic relief after the Kate's emotional encounters with Mrs. Wititterly and her uncle.
Bravo to Kate for standing up to those two characters. One of my favorite quotes is where she sums up her situation succinctly
"I am to be the scorn of my own sex, and the toy of the other; justly condemned by all women of right feeling, and despised by all honest and honorable men"
I think this gets at the long-term effect Hawk's games could have on Kate. Assuming she comes out of this unmolested, and unscathed, she is very much in danger of having her reputation ruined, in that "right thinking" people will blame her when she's done nothing wrong. Or her uncle forces her to marry the imbecile who sucks on his cane (ew . . gross. . . who does that??)
Mod
"Attempting to find a marriage for Kate and simply eliminating the habitual necessity for a dowry by virtue of Verisopht's indebtedness to Nickleby was NOT his motive."
What a travesty 😲 Nobody has suggested that it was! We all know Ralph's motive is greed, pure and simple. But the only way he thought he could get away with it, was because Kate is without a dowry. As you go on to say, his:
"conduct may have been tempered by some deeply hidden and virtually ignored familial emotions"
His later reflections seem to be a fleeting feeling of shame, but greed lies at the root of his behaviour.
The part of my post you have picked out was merely to correct an inappropriate terminology. It's amusing to use modern idioms occasionally, but not if they distort one's thinking, and I have given chapter and verse from a report of the time to show that it is inaccurate. Mrs Nickleby and Ralph Nickleby do not even move in those classes. It's obviously up to you whether you read it or not.
I really had hoped this was clear, and as I said was not directing the comment at anyone in particular, although I was aware only North Americans seem to use the slang. The difficulty has arisen because it is a term with a specific meaning to Victorians in London.
I've been forced to post on this yet again, but please Paul, let's move on! There is much of more interest than verbal quibbles and misunderstandings. For instance nobody has picked up on the touring round the country that Charles Dickens was doing as he wrote it (though the Dickens museum will have it that he wrote it in Doughty St., which is only partly true!) And only one person has commented of the dramatisation. I find it astonishing that a play can be made of just those 8 installments, with so many questions in my mind. I'd have loved to read a copy of the script - or better still - been there 🥰
Mod
Thank you so much Bridget! I did wonder whether everyone would get through the chapter today, but this novel is fast-paced for Charles Dickens, I think 😊
"One of my favorite moments in this chapter was the vignette at the end where Noggs fantasizes about fighting Ralph Nickleby by "air boxing" him."
Oh yes, mine too! 😆 It put a big smile on my face. He's such a quirky character, putting things in his hat and cracking his knuckles. I feel sure Charles Dickens must have known someone like him 🤔
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Jane Eyre (other topics)Pride and Prejudice (other topics)
Pride and Prejudice (other topics)
Red Pottage (other topics)
Oliver Twist (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Charles Dickens (other topics)Charles Dickens (other topics)
Edgar Allan Poe (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Fred Levit (other topics)
More...
Chapter 24: Of the Great Bespeak ."
Attention Everyone who wants notifications
Since this is a new thread, we have to again click "notify me when people comment"! I had to scroll down 50 MESSAGES from the beginning of this new thread to even find a place to do so!