The Procrastinators Book Club discussion
This topic is about
The Secret History
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
★Buddy/Group Read Retirement★
>
The Secret History (October 2024) Group Read Discussion
date
newest »
newest »
Richard begins the first chapter by stating:Does such a thing as “the fatal flaw,” that showy dark crack running down the middle of a life, exist outside literature? I used to think it didn’t. Now I think it does. And I think that mine is this: a morbid longing for the picturesque at all costs.
The fatal flaw is a popular literary concept that we are taught early in our education but often cease to discuss by the time we have reached college-level literature courses—with the exception of ancient Greek literature where the fatal flaw (namely different shades of hubris) was a set literary convention for hero stories. Do you feel Richard’s “fatal flaw” simplifies him or illuminates him? How did this early admission shape your reading of the novel, if at all? Does this classical convention translate to the modern day? And, just for fun: do you yourself believe “the fatal flaw” exists outside of literature?
I think you can do plenty of character development despite setting the story up as having a fatal flaw. However, you also constrain yourself by saying this ending is inevitable, the characters will not escape their fate, nor can they fundamentally change their nature. However you also know from the title that there's something deep and dark at the book's centre. The secret is unlikely to turn out to be someone's amazing jam recipe. I think you can always play with literary structures, and of course one way to set up a tragedy is to show that it was an inevitable result of the characters' personalities, and another is to set off a series of events, or some combination of the two.
I don't know that I know very many people with a fatal flaw. I know plenty of people who have tendencies that can get them into trouble, such as blurting out their opinion without thinking and often offend people as a result. Will their fate be to kill their father and marry their mother? Likely not.
Up to the end of Chapter TwoIt took me a few pages to get caught up in the aura of the book --that haunting melody that dark academia books tend to emanate. I don't have a lot of experience with the genre to generalize or draw parallels with. The closest I can come to is The Atlas Six trilogy and even that is not quite what this feels like. It's just what it is and there's no really describing it.
I go back and forth in my estimation of the characters. I liked Julian instantly --that hesitant, nerdy, genius vibe that first came across in the open crack of his classroom's doorway. But then there was such a shift in his character that I doubted my own study of his eccentricity. The other characters were the same. They started out as one thing, only to transform into some other beings the more the protagonist (and the reader) got to know them. Anyhow, I am now fully immersed in the book, the story, the mystery because yes, there is a mystery that the others are privy to but Richard is not. There is no plot as of yet and strangely, or not so strangely, it does not bother me. I'm enjoying the relationship formation and setting up of the overall story. It's magical in its old-school vibe for lack of a better descriptor.
Just finished chapter 1, and I can already tell I like the vibe of this book. It’s certainly unique, with excessive philosophical talk be completely far from what I usually reach out for, but it‘s giving the ultimate fall back-to-school dark academia vibe and I’m swept away by the main character’s descriptions of his experiences.I can also tell, that, given how obsessed I am with knowing exactly what’s going on when I’m reading, I would probably be mad by the random untranslated Greek words/concepts thrown in, if I weren’t Greek myself. 😅 (I’m already spending too much time trying unsuccessfully to translate the Latin I stumble upon)
In the beginning of the novel, Bunny’s behaviour is at times endearing and at others maddening. What was your initial opinion of Bunny? Does it change as the story develops?I actually only find Bunny maddening, his method of testing Richard by pretending he's going to pay for dinner only to pretend he forgot his wallet and make one of the others come to the restaurant and pay for them. But the others enable him as well, paying his way for everything instead of telling him to get a job and student loans and live within his means.
I'm also not a big fan of his conversational technique of trying to gauge Richard's level of wealth. If you want to know how rich someone is, ask them. If you find it gauche to just ask them outright, well, maybe there's a reason for that.
Bunny is definitely my least favorite character. I agree on how infuriating his behavior is. I actually don't understand why the others put up with him. I've yet to see any endearing qualities tbh. But, oh well. There are all kinds of friends in one's circle, I guess.
I'm quite behind. I just finished chapter 3 and I don't know what to make of Bunny and what everyone else thinks of him. The mystery keeps thickening into something that's maybe obvious but I can't put my finger on it. All in all, this chapter seemed quite dark and gloomy (apt for winters huh) until Henry came back from Rome. I think I like Henry the most of them all. I wish Richard would be more honest about things and accept Henry's help. But I understand his pride (or is it self respect?) and why he does what he does.
I'll pick up my pace hopefully. I really am desperate to know what the big secret is.
It's a good book, and personally I wouldn't really want to read it in a couple of days. It's worth savouring. None of the characters is really likeable, it's not clear what attracts Richard to them besides they're all posh and they're doing a highly selective course. It's also not clear what holds them together besides again their social class and the fact they're all studying an essentially useless subject. Of course as the mystery becomes clearer, the negative bonds between them will also become apparent. However, the positive reasons for them being such a close-knot group aren't.
I'm finished with the book and have to agree with what many people said here. I felt like it took forever for me personally to really get into. It felt kind of boring, maybe because of the lack of a clear plot in the beginning. Eventually, it started to draw me in, but I didn't like any of the characters initially, and even less so later. Everything and everyone seemed so pretentious. Probably, the only person I actually kind of liked was Judy Poovy, and only because she seemed sort of a comedic release from the rest of the characters. Overall-- I did like the book, but I definitely had to force myself to finish it. Even towards the midway point of the book where things were really picking up I felt it lacked the appeal to want to keep me going, since I didn't honestly care for any of the characters individually. (view spoiler) Even in the end, I'm glad I read it, experienced it, and now, I'm happy to move on. I will say it felt like vibe really captured the timeline. It reminded me of all the coming of age movies in the early 90's, which I guess in essence is what this was. Seriously a time capsule, even down to the way the author narrated it in the audiobook. Sorry for the rambles!
Trizi wrote: "I'm finished with the book and have to agree with what many people said here. I felt like it took forever for me personally to really get into. It felt kind of boring, maybe because of the lack of ..."Just another last minute thought I had that kind of depressed me a bit, on a personal level. This is what I imagine Dead Poets Society would have been similar to in novel form. That was one of my all time favorite movies from age 13-26ish, however I haven't watching it in the last 8+ years (I'm 36 now). I wonder if I would have loved the movie as much if it read like this book does, or if I maybe should love this book more since I loved that movie so much? Hard to say I guess. I know they're not the same really, but-- the general vibe rings similar to me. Maybe its the early 90's-ness of it all, but it makes me wonder if I had tried reading it instead of listening to the audiobook? Maybe I'll revisit in a year or two and see if I have any different thoughts.
I wasn't sure if the twincest was supposed to be a long-term thing, or if it had developed in the general depravity of the second half of the book. I felt like they were all spinning out of control a la a bacchanalia, drinking more, doing more drugs, smoking, and poor sexual choices. Or do you think they were always that out of control, and sheltered by their money and privilege?
I will be starting this one today! Once I make some headway I will take a look at what y'all have thought so far. :)
Here is the breakdown I am aiming to follow to ensure I complete by the end of October:10/27: prologue & chapter 1
10/28: chapter 2-3
10/29: chapter 4-5
10/30: chapter 6 -7
10/31: chapter 8 & epilogue
through the end of chapter 1: There are definitely cult like vibes with this SUPER selective class and group of students. He's supposed to be the Greek teacher and yet he has him pull out of the majority of his classes? I'm curious to learn about this group of kids and this professor so we will see what happens!
through end of chapter 3As of right now - not a fan of Bunny. I can't quite tell if he truly is this horrible or if he is gauging where Richard falls with everything.
Could Bunny actually not have money and just leaning into what he thinks others expect? Or is he just a cheapskate?
I am so curious to learn more about what this group is doing - with the random injuries (abuse or self-harm or other?) and random pot of whatever on the stove lol.
So far I think I like Henry the best. There is *something* going on that is causing Francis and Henry to put up with Bunny in the way that they are.
Anushka wrote: "Up to the end of Chapter TwoIt took me a few pages to get caught up in the aura of the book --that haunting melody that dark academia books tend to emanate. I don't have a lot of experience with ..."
I agree about the specific aura dark academia has - it's not quite a mystery/thriller and it's not quite literary fiction. There are books I have read that are mystery's with a school setting but they still don't quite fit the dark academia vibe.
End of Chapter 6I can't believe one-third of the story still remains. You'd think all that was to happen has happened. And ohmygod the way Henry has handled himself, commendable for sure. I don't know if it makes me dark or immoral but Henry has to be my favorite for sure.
Although I do wish some bits were edited and the book shortened. I guess the dark academia setup demanded this book be the way it is. But it does tend to drag at certain moments for me.
through chapter 5: Well not quite what I was expecting but also not surprised? I still very much do not like Bunny but am now undecided (obviously) of what I think of the others. Kind of random but I am now wondering what time frame this took place in. It feels very like 70s for some reason.
I find it fascinating that a majority of them that are viewed as wealthy are actually not that wealthy - or at the very least it's still pretty difficult for them to access the money.
Okay. I finished this one and ...wow. I was wondering what the last one-third of it would even be about and now that I know... It was agonizing and yet strangely fulfilling. It had some semblance of greek/ romanic justice to it. I get what some people say about this book's characters and each of their fatal flaws. In the end, was it a happy ending? No. Did I like the ending? No. Yet, could I see it ending any other way? Also, No. This was always meant to go this way, end this way.
I'm on the fence about my rating for the book though. I liked it way more than any other Dark Academia I've read in the past and yet there were times and scenes that make it not a perfect read for me. I guess I'll start typing the review and by the end the rating will come to me. For now, it's a 4.
Brianna wrote: "through chapter 5: Well not quite what I was expecting but also not surprised? I still very much do not like Bunny but am now undecided (obviously) of what I think of the others. Kind of random bu..."
They mention a few pop culture references from the late 1980s, going to see a Mel Gibson film, for example.
I think it's pretty normal to not let your kid have access to all their money at the same time. Henry and Francis seem to have trust funds that they can draw from, but they can't dissolve the whole trust and just have the money as a lump, at least not at this age. The twins seem to get some allowance from their parents, but it's not nearly what the others get.
through end of chapter 7:I am super interested in what is happening, don't get me wrong, but it is dragging. It could be the ADHD but these long chapters are honestly killing me. There are certain parts that feel so unnecessary but who knows how things will come together now that we are getting close to the end! So far it seems like they've been able to get away with it though.
Honestly, most 600 page books could have been a nice, tidy 300 or so. But Donna Tartt is a genius and her books sell like hotcakes 30+ years later, so who's going to tell her to edit them down?
Well I finished. Things happened that surprised me. Overall, I don't think it was the book for me. There were more things that I did not enjoy than things I did. Still processing so maybe opinion will change?
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
The Procrastinators Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
The Atlas Six (other topics)The Secret History (other topics)
Content warnings for death of a parent, mentions of dying and illness, war, poverty, starvation, beatings, corporal punishment, poison and allusions to torture.
This thread is open for discussion beginning October 1st! Please keep in mind that spoilers are allowed (mark as a spoiler) in this thread but only up to the group's current reading place. Do not spoil the book if you've read further than the group. Any extra days of the month can be used to catch up if needed! Page numbers are an approximation based on the hardcover or paperback that is the default on Goodreads.
The Group Read Discussion schedule is as follows:
1-7: Prologue & Chapters 1-2
8-14: Chapters 3-4
15-21: Chapters 5-6
22-28: Chapters 7-8 & Epilogue
You can read the group book at any time during the month and at your own pace. This is the pace the group will be using, but if you read ahead or will be giving spoilers, please mark them (click the "some html is ok button"). If you have any questions a mod or another member can help you.