Ersatz TLS discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
Weekly TLS
>
What are we reading? 1/07/2024
Bill wrote: "As promised, here is a Gift Link to the NY Times “100 Best Books of the 21st Century”. I should note that the list is interactive: it allows you to check those you’ve read and those you want to rea..."I'm surprised to have read 41 books on the list, because until recently I had avoided contemporary literature. Apparently I need to get back to the classics.
And, I will not be reading the number 1 ranked book in this lifetime
Paul wrote: "And, I will not be reading the number 1 ranked book in this lifetime"Is this a case of a prophet being without honor in her own country?
Gpfr wrote: "Bill wrote: "As promised, here is a Gift Link to the NY Times “100 Best Books of the 21st Century”..."Thanks, unlike others here I quite enjoy such lists, even if I wouldn't say all these books a..."
Well I have read 13 of the books that you have read! My Brilliant Friend, Wolf Hall, The Corrections, Never Let Me Go, The Year of Magical Thinking, Atonement, H is For Hawk, The Goldfinch, Life After Life, Olive Kitteridge, Bring Up the Bodies, Bel Canto, How to be Both. They were all OK to goodish, though none of them were my favourites though. I don't think I actually finished The Goldfinch, about 2 thirds of the way through I got annoyed by it... I found myself saying well just hand it back!... the painting that is... I do admire Hilary Mantel, (except for her book about the French revolution, which I couldn't get on with, for reasons unclear), but there was a bit too much of 'men cavorting badly' about it. I preferred the film version, though she could write a great phrase, now and again... I do keep meaning to read one of Zadie Smith's books. Can anyone recommend a particular one?
Looking at the top twenty I'm surprised that 'My Brilliant Friend' was top, I would have put it somewhere down the bottom.
The new books shelf at the Auburn library had a charming new book: Shakespeare: The Man Who Pays the Rent by Judi Dench.A woman who knows her roles well- and has played so many of them-- tells the stories through the eyes of particular characters. Dench knows not only her lines but those of the other players, and pictures their relationships with crisp humor.
Recommended.
Bill wrote: "Paul wrote: "And, I will not be reading the number 1 ranked book in this lifetime"Is this a case of a prophet being without honor in her own country?"
Italy is a country if bandwagon jumpers since the Byzantine Empire (See WWII) so Ferrante didn't sell any books domestically UNTIL she was a hit in the UK& USA. It's more a case of having read 20 pages and being completely underwhelmed with a side dish of boredom.
Paul wrote: "Italy is a country if bandwagon jumpers since the Byzantine Empire (See WWII) so Ferrante didn't sell any books domestically UNTIL she was a hit in the UK& USA. It's more a case of having read 20 pages and being completely underwhelmed with a side dish of boredom."I admit I have no inclination to read Ferrante (3 books on the list) either.
I first came across an article on her books not in any literary journal but in the NY Times “T” magazine – an occasional thick slick-paper supplement to the Sunday edition, heavily supported by multi-page ads for designer clothing and jewelry – which is billed as “The New York Times Style Magazine”. (The editor is Hanya Yanagihara, author of A Little Life.)
At 41 books, you may well have read more of the selections than anyone else here. I have 10 of the books on the list that I picked up at used book sales over the years, but don’t know whether I’ll even get around to reading all of those. I tend to be draconian about eliminating large swathes of literature from consideration when I’m looking for reading matter and I wouldn’t consider trying to read a number of books on that list.
Mod
Thanks, Bill, for a diverting read. I clocked up a semi-respectable 18, but I’d probably put fewer than half of them (*) in a list of the 100 best books I’ve read in the 21st century. Both the Hilary Mantels would make my top ten. It’s mainly the classics that do it for me. If I sat down to work it out, Balzac on his own might fill up a couple of percentiles.
Bring Up the Bodies*
Station Eleven*
The Human Stain
Collected Stories of Lydia Davis
The Emperor of All Maladies
The Story of the Lost Child
Olive Kitteridge*
10.04
Tenth of December
Life After Life*
H is for Hawk
White Teeth*
Sing Unburied Sing
Atonement
Austerlitz*
The Corrections
Wolf Hall*
My Brilliant Friend
Tam – Zadie Smith - The exuberance of White Teeth makes it a great one to start with. The Fraud is not bad either. I’m reading her short story collection Grand Union, which I would have to say is middling.
Today's New Yorker daily cartoon may be a comment on the NY Times' list:
Caption:"No good beach reads."
I'm embarrassed to say that I've read only one: David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas. I did like that one, though.It's only the last few years I've started to make a serious effort to catch up with contemporary fiction and so far I'm only approaching the mid-1990s - though the "contemporary" book I'm reading at the moment was published in 1984 so it's a case of two steps forward and one step back, or however that goes.
I hope to catch up to the 2000s within the next 12 months or so and then I expect to be reading at least a few of the books on this list. I have already read an earlier book or two by some of the authors on there so there are a few I'm pretty sure will be worth a try. And there are others I haven't read but have been curious about from some time.
Mod
On Beauty is the one I've liked best — I've enjoyed all the books of hers I've read so far, haven't yet read The Fraud.
Bill wrote: "As promised, here is a Gift Link to the NY Times “100 Best Books of the 21st Century”. I should note that the list is interactive: it allows you to check those you’ve read and those you want to rea..."Thanks for posting the list of 100. I discovered that I had read one of them ("Persepolis"), poked in a couple of others, and knew nothing of the remainder. Back to the Auburn Library New Books section!
is there a simple list without all the clicking and scrolling? or did i miss it, for the NYT 100 books?i started to scroll and then realised it would take all day, pretty sure i will have read less than 10
Mod
i started to scroll and then realised it would take all day, pretty sure i will have read le..."
Did you scroll down to here?
Click on 100 and then scroll through the whole list. It doesn't take long if you just go straight through without stopping to read everything. If you click on 'I've read it' under the book, you can get a list at the end.
Gpfr wrote: "AB76 wrote: "is there a simple list without all the clicking and scrolling? or did i miss it, for the NYT 100 books?i started to scroll and then realised it would take all day, pretty sure i will..."
ok
Mod
i started to scroll and then realised it would take all day, pretty sure i will..."
If you click on 'I've read it' under the book, you can get a list at the end."
Here I mean the list of what you've read.
Next classuic novel off the block was planned for May but i felt i was reading about war on all fronts, so postponed itIts Uncertain Glory
by Joan Sales, a 1950s Catalan classic about the civil war, translated and re-published my Maclehose in 2014. I have read a lot about the Spanish Civil War, in fiction and in non-fiction and am looking foward to it. It continues a theme of Catalan novels i have read(Rodoreda, Pla,Bonet), all of which impressed me
Bill wrote: "As promised, here is a Gift Link to the NY Times “100 Best Books of the 21st Century”. "
I LOVE lists, Bill, so thanks for that. I'm on 19 books.
I LOVE lists, Bill, so thanks for that. I'm on 19 books.
Bill wrote: "Lists of this sort tend to be so stuffed with "the usual suspects" that I don't expect to find much, if anything, that I hadn't heard of. I tend to think of them as a kind of measurement of the state-of-the-taste among taste-makers or "literary luminaries" as the Times dubbed their polling sample."Although I hadn't given it as much thought as yourself, I find that I agree with everything you say about lists and those who get to 'vote' for the books. Most of my major disappointments in recent years have been books which won prizes or were acclaimed by the 'literary establishment'. Most of those authors I've really enjoyed, I came across almost by accident - with a helping hand from 'instinct'.
In reading the various comments on the 100 books list over at the NY Times and now listening to their podcast about the list, it strikes me as odd that no one seems to recognize that Lincoln in the Bardo is Fantasy.
Bill wrote: "As promised, here is a Gift Link to the NY Times “100 Best Books of the 21st Century”. I should note that the list is interactive: it allows you to check those you’ve read and those you want to rea..."Thanks for that... I find that I have read 10 of these books, plus other books by authors listed (e.g. Bolano and a few others).
The ones on the list were:
My Brilliant Friend ● The Corrections ● The Road ● Erasure ● Atonement ● Americanah ● A Brief History of Seven Killings ● The Goldfinch ● The Vegetarian ● The Return
Of these, then:
Best books I have read by the authors to date:
The Return: Fathers, Sons and the Land in Between by Hisham Matar; and Erasure by Percival Everett
Books I enjoyed but not the best by the author (IMO, of course):
The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen; and The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt
Somewhat heavy going:
My Brilliant Friend - in translation, at least, the relentless self-analysis was wearing... but there is a strong story underlying that. I much preferred the TV series, charmingly acted, which naturally left out a good deal of the navel gazing. An outstanding production:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7278862/...
Atonement by Ian McEwan - I started reading this author from his first short story collection, and have liked some of his work - but this was definitely a bridge too far, with the original "four pages describing the living room carpet". Dull doesn't begin to describe it; I have sworn to never read another book by McEwan.
Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie - I had enjoyed all her books up to this one; it's OK but a bit dull, and severely overworks some sort of parallel between hair styles for African (or Af-Am) women with their dense hair and the fate of POC in the USA. A pity. Read the earlier stuff instead. She can be very good indeed.
A Brief History of Seven Killings by Marlon James - the problem here is easy to state. It is written in a sort of patois with which I'm not familiar: there were passages where I had very little idea of who was doing what, or to whom. I'm prepared to concede the possibility that it may be brilliant IF you can penetrate the language and figure out what is going on. I couldn't.
Just - no:
The Vegetarian by Han Kang... well, I'm a veggie and so was the protagonist in this one until she goes nuts and iirc becomes a cannibal. Not to my taste, then. (Very silly book.)
The Road by Cormac McCarthy: Another book with cannibalism! It's the fashion! OK, then - it's dystopian; 'something' has happened and the end of the world is nigh; idiots think that if they can get to the end of 'the road' they might be saved. Fat chance. Why not stay put and enjoy a few beers instead? This must be the 'most overrated' book of the millenium, so far.
Just to be clear - I also read and quite liked McCarthy's No Country for Old Men - a much better book, with a similarly pessimistic ending. I can take that so long as we don't get absurdity as well. I'm afraid, though, that 'The Road' has put me off Mccarthy for life.
Tam wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Bill wrote: "As promised, here is a Gift Link to the NY Times “100 Best Books of the 21st Century”..."Thanks, unlike others here I quite enjoy such lists, even if I wouldn't say all ..."
Tam
I have always felt rather guilty in that I gave up on The Goldfinch about a half in - just couldn’t bear it longer despite all the praise - not for me either.
Bill wrote: "As promised, here is a Gift Link to the NY Times “100 Best Books of the 21st Century”. I should note that the list is interactive: it allows you to check those you’ve read and those you want to rea..."How embarrassing, although I have several on my tbr pile I have only read the two Hilary Mantel ones, Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies. Oddly though, I found The Mirror and the Light the best of the three.
I really must spread my reading over more subjects and fewer crime novels!
Just back from a week in Stratford upon Avon. Enjoying my history nerding, which may not surprise some of you. There is an exhibition of some of the costumes worn by the actors, and they are amazing. I will try to post some of the photos up in due course.
Call my old fashioned, but having visited Shakespeare's Birth Place and Anne Hathaway's Cottage, I received requests to complete surveys about my visits. I was happily going along answering the questions until I got to:
"Your Sex
Is your gender identity the same as your sex identified at birth
How would you describe your gender identity
How would you describe your sexual orientation.
I have so far resisted the attempt to be rude, or give ridiculous answers."
I am failing to see what it has to do with them, why they should want to know and why they might expect anyone to put such answers on a site which might be hacked. Not a problem for many, but for someone well known it could be.
But perhaps I am old fashioned, or missing something.
scarletnoir wrote: "I'm a veggie and so was the protagonist in this one until she goes nuts and iirc becomes a cannibal"I hope that she at least limits her cannibalism to the eating of vegetarians.
I can recall only two novels, both SF, that had scenes of cannibalism in them: Stranger in a Strange Land and The Wanting Seed. In Don Juan, there is scene in a lifeboat of drawing lots preparatory to the act, though I can't recall now whether or not it is carried out.
I have read several non-fiction books on the subject; I recall Flesh and Blood: A History of the Cannibal Complex, The Man-Eating Myth: Anthropology and Anthropophagy, and Keep the River on Your Right.
giveusaclue wrote: "Your SexIs your gender identity the same as your sex identified at birth
How would you describe your gender identity
How would you describe your sexual orientation."
Yikes, or rather, 'swounds!
Bill wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Your SexIs your gender identity the same as your sex identified at birth
How would you describe your gender identity
How would you describe your sexual orientation."
Yikes,..."
Not just me then?
Bill wrote: "I hope that she at least limits her cannibalism to the eating of vegetarians..."iirc, she is the only vegetarian in the book - so you are more at risk than I am! ;-)
giveusaclue wrote: "Not just me then?."Indeed not.
Unnecessary, intrusive and pointless questions, IMO.
Well, going for full immersion in the NY Times' Best Books experience, I've submitted my own list at:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...
(Gift Link, if you want to do the same.)
The list was based on books I found particularly memorable and / or that I'd given 5 Goodreads stars. I do label my fiction reading by decade, but with non-fiction I had to rely a bit more on memory and looking up publication dates. In no particular order:
When Mystical Creatures Attack!
Swimming Sweet Arrow
A Year in the South: 1865: The True Story of Four Ordinary People Who Lived Through the Most Tumultuous Twelve Months in American History
Against the Day
Mister Monkey
Lost for Words
Wagnerism: Art and Politics in the Shadow of Music
The March
Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times
Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich
So i did the NY list thing and was shocked at so many dreadful titles i will never touch. it was like a horror show in some ways but then i dont read a lot of 21stc novelsI’ve read 8 books on the list ...
The Road ● Erasure ● White Teeth ● Persepolis ● The Vegetarian ● Train Dreams ● The Plot Against America ● The Copenhagen Trilogy
Can't get enough book lists?Esquire magazine has "The 75 Best Sci-Fi Books of All Time"
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment...
I haven't gone through this yet, but a quick glance shows a mix of old and new titles. In the time of Elon Musk and his plans for Mars, I sure hope The Space Merchants is on there.
Bill wrote: "Can't get enough book lists?Esquire magazine has "The 75 Best Sci-Fi Books of All Time"
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment...
I haven't gone through this yet,. but a quick glance shows a mix of old and new titles. In the time of Elon Musk and his plans for Mars, I sure hope The Space Merchants is on there."
I had a very quick skim through and I don't think Space Merchants is in there, though I agree it should be. Pretty heavy on stuff from the last 20 years or so that I haven't read, so interesting in that regard.
But I get the impression it went for the over-obvious choice with some authors, e.g. picking the book that was made into a well-known movie (PKD, Lem, Strugatskys), or won an award (Zelazny), which makes me wonder about the picks I'm not familiar with too.
AB76 wrote: "So i did the NY list thing and was shocked at so many dreadful titles i will never touch. it was like a horror show in some ways but then i dont read a lot of 21stc novelsI’ve read 8 books on th..."
4 times as many as me!
I have posted up the four photos of the costumes from the display at the Royal Shakespeare Company. Of course, you have to see them properly to get them in their full glory. But I hope this gives you some idea.
Bill wrote: "In the time of Elon Musk and his plans for Mars, I sure hope The Space Merchants is on there."As I no longer read SF, I won't look at the list (probably - unless from curiosity)... but you may be surprised to know that this is one of the few SF books which really impressed me back when I still read the genre. Much better than anything I read by Asimov, for example.
Paul wrote: "Bill wrote: "Paul wrote: "And, I will not be reading the number 1 ranked book in this lifetime"Is this a case of a prophet being without honor in her own country?"
Italy is a country if bandwago..."
It was said of Italy's last ruling house that if they finished a war on the same side that they began it, they had changed sides twice.
Mod
Lovely!
Robert wrote: "Paul wrote: "Bill wrote: "Paul wrote: "And, I will not be reading the number 1 ranked book in this lifetime"Is this a case of a prophet being without honor in her own country?"
Italy is a countr..."
The clever and difficult thing to do is make sure you end up on the winning side. Lord Stanley comes to mind.
I had only read half a dozen of the books on that NY list but it did include Never let me go by Ishiguro which I would most likely have put top. Wonderful. Thought provoking. Tears streamed my face in the end.
Bill wrote: "Can't get enough book lists?Esquire magazine has "The 75 Best Sci-Fi Books of All Time"
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment...
I haven't gone through this yet,..."
Haha!
Well, in the end, I couldn't resist a look. I have read exactly 1 (ONE) of these books - Orwell's '1984', which in any case I'd regard as a polemic rather than SF.
I have read different books by a few of the other authors, but not all that many (e.g. Murakami and Vonnegut)...most, I have never heard of them. SF is definitely not for me.
Mod
Well, in the end, I couldn't resist a look...."
At first I wasn't going to look — not interested in science fiction, I said to myself — but I've succumbed, too, and have actually read 7 from the list:
The Time Machine
The Children of Men
Brave New World
1984
Station Eleven
Never Let Me Go
Frankenstein: The 1818 Text
Like you, scarletnoir, I've never heard of most of the writers/books on the list.
Mod
A Clockwork Orange
The Time Machine
The City and The City
Brave New World
1984
Station Eleven
Dune
Frankenstein
Unless I missed it, they didn’t have one other I’ve read and quite enjoyed that does fit my idea of SF, The Martian. Generally speaking, I prefer time travel in the opposite direction, historical fiction, with the no doubt naïve belief that it doesn’t involve that much speculation.
OK, of books on the SF list I've read 19 and a half, exactly three times as many as from the Times' list of 100. Though there are a few I didn't think were that good, on average I would say that I thought these books better than the ones I've read from the Times' list.Star Maker
What Mad Universe
The Claw of the Conciliator
A Clockwork Orange
A Wrinkle in Time
The Time Machine
Neuromancer
The Stars My Destination
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
Engine Summer
The Forever War
The Sirens of Titan
Childhood’s End
I, Robot (This might count as one-half of The Complete Robot)
Brave New World
1984
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
The Martian Chronicles
Dune
Frankenstein
Logger24 wrote: "Unless I missed it, they didn’t have one other I’ve read and quite enjoyed that does fit my idea of SF, The Martian."They picked another book by Andy Weir, Project Hail Mary. I notice that, unlike the Times 100, the SF list does not feature multiple books by the same author, probably to prevent it from being dominated by "old masters" of the genre.
On the SF list, my "Want to Read" list is:
Kindred
The Left Hand of Darkness
Exhalation
Hyperion
Dhalgren
A Canticle for Leibowitz (I've read the original short story)
The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress
Lord of Light
Way Station
Bill wrote: "Can't get enough book lists?
Esquire magazine has "The 75 Best Sci-Fi Books of Time,..."
This list only goes down to number 16 for me. I'm missing 15 to 1. I've loaded it twice with the same result. Anyone else having this problem?
Esquire magazine has "The 75 Best Sci-Fi Books of Time,..."
This list only goes down to number 16 for me. I'm missing 15 to 1. I've loaded it twice with the same result. Anyone else having this problem?
giveusaclue wrote: "I have posted up the four photos of the costumes from the display at the Royal Shakespeare Company. .."
Love the photos. I was trying to work out (roughly) what plays they might be for. I'm defeated completely by the fairy tale type gown. What was that for?
Love the photos. I was trying to work out (roughly) what plays they might be for. I'm defeated completely by the fairy tale type gown. What was that for?
Anne wrote: "This list only goes down to number 16 for me. I'm missing 15 to 1."Counting down, the first 15 are:
How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe
Brave New World
The Employees: A Workplace Novel of the 22nd Century
1984
The Three-Body Problem
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Station Eleven
Exhalation
Never Let Me Go
The Left Hand of Darkness
Kindred
The Fifth Season
The Martian Chronicles
Dune
Frankenstein
I note that three of those are also on the NY Times' list.
Bill wrote: "Counting down, the first 15 are: ..."
That's so kind, Bill, thank you. I've read 8 then:
A Wrinkle in Time
The Children of Men
The Time Machine
Brave New World
Station Eleven
Never Let Me Go
Oryx and Crake
1984
I'm not getting what is obviously thought to be the essential greatness of Station Eleven and has placed it on both lists. Not listed is The Flame Alphabet by Ben Marcus, which I loved.
That's so kind, Bill, thank you. I've read 8 then:
A Wrinkle in Time
The Children of Men
The Time Machine
Brave New World
Station Eleven
Never Let Me Go
Oryx and Crake
1984
I'm not getting what is obviously thought to be the essential greatness of Station Eleven and has placed it on both lists. Not listed is The Flame Alphabet by Ben Marcus, which I loved.
Bill wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Unless I missed it, they didn’t have one other I’ve read and quite enjoyed that does fit my idea of SF, The Martian."They picked another book by Andy Weir, [book:Project Hail Mar..."
That was a decent list although a bit too biased towards recent works. I've read 21 from that but some, like Lord of Light and Station Eleven were dire. Riddley Walker is the most glaring omission
Bill wrote: "Logger24 wrote: "Unless I missed it, they didn’t have one other I’ve read and quite enjoyed that does fit my idea of SF, The Martian."They picked another book by Andy Weir, [book:Project Hail Mar..."
A Canticle for Leibowitz is an excellent novel.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
Ersatz TLS
Books mentioned in this topic
1984 (other topics)The Three-Body Problem (other topics)
Frankenstein (other topics)
How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe (other topics)
The Employees (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Hanya Yanagihara (other topics)Michael Gorra (other topics)
Thanks, unlike others here I quite enjoy such lists, even if I wouldn't say all these books are so great— here's my result: