Has anyone read this book recently? I need a bit of help with it

[Teodora]

Hi, everyone! I have recently taken a break from this little gem, not because I have lost interest in it (it was love at first page), but because I find it quite a challenge to read- English is not my first language. So I was wondering whether I could start a short literary correspondence with a native English speaker in this group, preferably someone from the UK and this is because "The Bloater" was written in the 60s by a witty, quirky, and sharp-tongued British writer who occasionally resorts to subtle irony, social/cultural/literary references, and British slang. This book is definitely not everybody's cup of tea. I was a bit surprised that I was so drawn to it in the first place although I do write bizarre stuff myself :)).

Anyway, my problem is that there are words, phrases, and whole sentences that left me puzzled and I could not find their meaning in any dictionary or anywhere online. I wrote them down (the page number as well) waiting or hoping to find someone who can elucidate these semantic mysteries and help me navigate the unusual literary waters of Tonks' writing. I am reading the 2022 edition to be more precise.

I do not think it will ever be translated in Romanian (my native language).

Thank you for taking the time to read my message. It is my first time posting in a Goodreads group.

[Nathaniel]

Hi Teodora, I'm not sure how much help you're going to find specifically about that book, however, I think everyone is happy to help with words or phrases, if you would like.

Please feel free to share the mysteries.

[Brian]

Don't be discouraged, my first and only language is English...and readering British authors, at times, hurts my brain...bad. Yes, they use several different terms or even spellings of words than we do here in the states. Now, after 5 Dickens, a couple Bronte sisters, some Austin and a few others...I've slowly, with much patience and fortitude, and a couple thick dictionaries...gained considerable ground in comprehension of their works.

Maybe shelf this one for a bit and try another British author. Good luck!

[Brian]

Heck, I was two hours researching the word "follerer" from Dickens, Bleakhouse. Goggle search was the only thing that shed any light on the term, but even then...there was no solid confirmation of its true meaning...just a lot of guessing by those that are suppose to be smarter than the rest of us.😂

[Teodora]

Nathaniel wrote: "Hi Teodora, I'm not sure how much help you're going to find specifically about that book, however, I think everyone is happy to help with words or phrases, if you would like. Please feel free to s..."

Hi, thanks for the message! Yes, I knew it was a long shot. This has to be the weirdest book (written in English) I have ever read, thus the message in this group. I listed some of the „mysteries” below. Unfortunately, there are whole sentences I have not understood at all, but you would have to know the whole context of that particular scene/part in order to grasp their meaning, so I’m afraid those will remain a mystery (for now).

- the author mentions „Pop Cambridge” several times to describe someone's attitude/personality („He/she is so pop Cambridge”). I’m guessing it means something along the lines of „snob”, someone who thinks they are better than everybody else because they are high class or more cultured?

- a male character who is a good friend of the protagonist (Min) slaps her behind (jokingly? not sure to be honest) and then whispers in her ear: „Go away with you, Min” – this one is a locked door for me...I do not get it AT ALL. I have not heard of such a phrasing before. When you say “Go away WITH someone” it usually means someone physically leaves with someone else. Also, this male character is not answering any previous questions; it seems to be a flirtatious remark. Min (the narrator) does suggest that her friend sometimes flirts with her...innocently.

- “It’s stale, darling. You’ve had the last little bit of juice out of it” – when someone (aka a crazy British author/character😄 ) says this and they are obviously not referring to food/drink, but to something that has been discussed, does it mean something like: “I have nothing more/new to add on the subject. You have exhausted the topic and you are boring me?”

- “Someone puts their head round the studio door and says ‘Sorry’. Jenny and Fred look up with hope. I keep staring at my music-stand with ridges on my brow, praying that the interruption won’t rend the veil of the temple from top to bottom”. – ok, I have just entered the Twilight Zone here! – “with ridges on my brow” – does this mean frowning? What is “the veil of my temple” and what does it mean for something to “render it from top to bottom”?

- does the French “ennui” have another meaning besides “boredom” when used in English?

- "silver-kid dress" – what color/fabric is this? Did dark-grey and light-grey have a baby which they named Silver Kid? :))

[Teodora]

Brian wrote: "Heck, I was two hours researching the word "follerer" from Dickens, Bleakhouse. Goggle search was the only thing that shed any light on the term, but even then...there was no solid confirmation of ..."

Hi, Brian, and thank you for your message! " Folleler" sounds nerve-racking indeed (but also funny). :)) You must have had nightmares about it (kidding). To be honest, I have not read a lot of British authors (in English), and yeah, plunging straight into Tonks without my Dickens/Bronte swimming suit is quite a dare. It might not be such a bad idea to leave this book for now, catch my breath, and torture myself with a bit of classic British literature, to get the hang of it. 😂

I have mentioned some of the words/phrases I’ve not understood in reply to Nathaniel’s message although perhaps I should have posted a new message in this thread (I am still new to posting in these groups).

[Jo]

Hi!
I’ve not read this book but I am British and will do my best to help.

I can throw some light on some of those things mentioned but not all of them, will take them one at a time as I’ll need to keep referring back to your questions and am on my mobile App…

‘Go away with you’ sounds like Irish phrasing to me, so I wonder if that character is Irish? If that’s the right context then this wording means something similar to ‘don’t be daft’ or ‘stop being silly’. It’s often used in a gently humorous way, among friends or acquaintances. Would that make sense?

[Jo]

The ‘it’s stale darling’ comment, you are right - I would interpret this as meaning the topic is exhausted, there’s nothing more to say.

[Jo]

‘Ridges on my brow’ again you’re correct, this is describing deep frown lines

[Len]

If you can find a copy of A Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English by Eric Partridge it may answer most of your questions. It has been reprinted quite frequently so a used (secondhand) copy shouldn't be too expensive.

[Jo]

‘Rending the veil of the temple’ has a religious significance… if you google ‘what does rending the veil of the temple mean’ you will see lots of explanations.

I’m not religious, personally, but from what I can gather it suggests a religious experience whereby the presence of God is available to all.

From the context of the comment you posted I think the author is using it to say the character hopes the interruption doesn’t cause something massive to alter (I could be wrong but that’s how I would interpret it)

[Jo]

Render from top to bottom means tearing it apart from top to bottom

[Jo]

‘Ennui’ is boredom yes, but often subtlety more too - imagine total lack of interest in something, weariness, exhaustion

[Jo]

I hope those comments were helpful… I read a classic by an American author a few months ago and struggled with some of the terminology in that, so feel your pain!

Wish I’d thought to post questions in here like you did!

[Teodora]

Jo wrote: "Hi!
I’ve not read this book but I am British and will do my best to help.
I can throw some light on some of those things mentioned but not all of them, will take them one at a time as I’ll need t..."

Hi, Jo, thank you so much for throwing some light on these mysteries. :)

- From what I gathered, the male character is not Irish, he might actually be Italian :)) But he speaks perfect English. Hmm...yes, the meaning could be „don’t be silly” or something similar.

- I found the biblical meaning mentioned somewhere, but I discarded the possibility because it did not make much sense in the context. However, now that you mentioned it, yes, indeed, I believe this is the meaning – “the character hopes the interruption doesn’t cause something massive to alter”.

- That’s exactly what I thought, so ‘ennui’ is a sort of existential boredom...(I know some French as well), but again, it still doesn’t make sense in that respective context – as I said, very weird book and a very unorthodox writer (ironically she became a religious fanatic in her later years).

[Teodora]

Len wrote: "If you can find a copy of A Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English by Eric Partridge it may answer most of your questions. It has been reprinted quite frequentl..."

Thank you for the suggestion!

[Jo]

Oh and I forgot to mention that the silver kid dress is a silver colour and it's made from kidskin.
Kidskin is a type of very soft leather, which is made from goat hide :o)

[Teodora]

Jo wrote: "Oh and I forgot to mention that the silver kid dress is a silver colour and it's made from kidskin.
Kidskin is a type of very soft leather, which is made from goat hide :o)"

Oh..kid as in baby goat, that's awful... I see, thanks for the clarification!

[Sybiee]

English is a horrid language! but George mike's and Angela kiss describe English sentences and cultures that help explain the language - the books are called how to be an alien (both) George mike's wrote his in the 30s and 60s and Angela kiss published her version not long ago --
that might help somewhat

also children books published before 2000s might help to :) might help you with the sentence structures and the variations

[Sybiee]

also reading through the comments some of these phrases have now become more or less extinct and forgotten in general vocabulary and conversation so alot of people regardless of language would struggle with it - for example 'pop Cambridge' no clue personally -- but there are also other books that use that language that are simpler//more obvious

I hope these are helpful really sorry if not!

[Teodora]

Sybiee wrote: "English is a horrid language! but George mike's and Angela kiss describe English sentences and cultures that help explain the language - the books are called how to be an alien (both) George mike's..."

Thanks! That sounds really interesting! There are so many books that I would love to have/ read. Too bad my financial situation has a different opinion.

Haha, English is lovely, but yes, at times it can be tricky for non-native English speakers. And yes, I am sure there are many other books out there that are simpler and more obvious. "The Bloater" is the kind of book that puzzles even native English speakers nowadays, readers who are not used to certain words and phrases that have become, as you said, more or less extinct.