June 2024 The Shadow of the Torturer - no spoilers, please

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

No spoiler thread for The Shadow of the Torturer

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

I started reading yesterday. I wasn't prepared for the classical prose style. But I am enjoying it. It's not long so I should wrap it up in a couple weeks easily.

Who else is in for this one?

[Stephen]

I’ll probably be starting it next week.

[Allan]

My re-read will start next week.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "Who else is in for this one?"

I plan to start it in two days

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I have two more to finish, then I will try this

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

The first couple chapters were interesting but slow going for me as I absorbed all the details Wolfe provided about the world. It started moving a little faster for me after that, although it is still not a "fast" read. That's not a problem, and for well-written books like this I tend to read a little bit slower to absorb the detailed descriptions and the prose. I'm very much enjoying this so far.

I've never read anything else by Wolfe, but I can feel the influence of Jack Vance here, especially his Dying Earth series, although there is much less humor.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

I've started it and it currently looks like a far-future Earth masquerading as a medieval fantasy. The language is thesaurus-worthy but I may miss it on audio - I rarely stop to type a word to check its meaning, and this book is probably better eye-reading. I've checked the text on Archive.org and found out that I even 'heard' one name incorrectly as a noun :)

[Ed]

This is one of those rare books where the more you read, the less you understand. Mysteries pile on top of each other and I doubt anyone has ever really figured it out.

If I had stopped at book 1, I would have a better opinion of it, since that one mostly seems to make sense.

I tried reading Solar Labyrinth: Exploring Gene Wolfe's "Book of the New Sun", but that didn't really help me.

[Stephen]

I remember reading The Shadow of the Torturer and finding it unusual and interesting, and I know I had at least one of the later books, but that was the time (early 80s) when I basically stopped reading sff for a long time. I’ve read some Wolfe in recent years and I’ll be interested to get into this one.

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Well, all of your comments increase my feeling that this book will not be for me. But I will try it in a day or so anyway

[Rebecca]

I can tell you..I read it earlier this year and had no clue what was happening the entire time lol

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "Well, all of your comments increase my feeling that this book will not be for me. But I will try it in a day or so anyway"

I guess so. Moreover, unlike quite a few other books, where I rate them high and you low, I guess (yet to finish) that I won't like this book either :)

[Ed]

I must say, though, that I did enjoy the first book without really understanding many things.

[Allan]

This one's a re-read for me, but I didn't move on to the other books. This time, I'd at least like to continue to the second one, which was a Nebula winner.

[Stephen]

Started last night. I’ve been looking up some of the obscure words and I think this is worthwhile. E.g. “The caracara coursed vipers for me, and the hawk lifted his wings to the wind from the top of a pine.” I didn’t know what a caracara is, so I looked it up. It’s a large tropical falcon that behaves like a vulture. The only extant species has a range covering much of South America but only small areas of the southern U.S.A. This may be a clue to the physical setting of the story, or the word may be used just to increase the sense of strangeness I suppose.

So far, just a couple of short chapters in, it’s not a difficult read, though the idea of a guild of torturers holding an accepted role in the society is a strange and unpleasant one.

[Allan]

Stephen wrote: "I didn’t know what a caracara is, so I looked it up. It’s a large tropical falcon that behaves like a vulture. The only extant species has a range covering much of South America but only small areas of the southern U.S.A. ..."

I live in San Antonio, Texas, at the north end of the city, which is rocky, hilly & forested. I work in a 4-story building at the edge of the hills & woods, so the area is filled with birds, particularly red-tailed hawks, mockingbirds & vultures (Black or Turkey). We often see crested caracaras that have migrated north from Mexico. They are the national bird of Mexico. They're technically falcons, but they're often called Mexican eagles & they behave more like vultures in that they'll eat pretty much anything. Beautiful birds.

[Stephen]

Allan wrote: "Stephen wrote: "I didn’t know what a caracara is, so I looked it up. It’s a large tropical falcon that behaves like a vulture. The only extant species has a range covering much of South America but..."

Thanks, that’s interesting. Maybe I picked a bad example of an obscure word. There were a number of others I looked up.

[Allan]

I know what you mean about having to look up words. I just started it last night myself.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

re obscure words - and just think, it was published in 1980, no internet to look up instantly all the words. Reading it was a greater challenge back then. Maybe it even led to a nomination, voters thinking, "I worked hard to read this book, let other suffer enjoy it!" :)

[Ed]

I liked the obscure words, and didn't care whether I knew what they meant. Some SF will make up new species like Ewoks or Wookies. Instead Wolfe took existing words and used them to describe species that are similar to, but not quite the same as, those around us. Like 'aurochs' instead of 'cattle'.

I guess it is true, though, that sometimes people who worked hard to understand something might confuse their enjoyment of learning with an enjoyment of the story.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

At the end of the book, there is an author's note about the choice of words

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

By the way, a member in a different group tipped me off to a podcast "ReReading Wolfe" - apparently they go through a chapter-by-chapter read of this book with some helpful info. I might check it out but my podcast listening time has diminished since I've been able to work from home.

https://rereadingwolfe.podbean.com/

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "By the way, a member in a different group tipped me off to a podcast "ReReading Wolfe" ."

Oh, thanks, for I've finished the book and now am reading reviews to understand it better

[Stephen]

Earlier today I read a line that might be a joke by the author, referring to the odd words in the book.

“He mispronounced quite common words: ‘urticate’, ‘salpinx’, ‘bordereau’.”

(Severian is describing master torturer Gurloes).

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I have started and am maybe about 5% in. Not far enough to judge how it will go for me

[Stephen]

I’ve just passed the halfway point. Interesting novel.

[Allan]

About 10% in, moving slowly. Though it came out in the 80s, the language feels older & more classical, so it takes some concentration to read (not my strength). But it's a re-read for me, so I'm finding some familiarity with the style.

[Ed]

Last night I watched this interesting interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGov8...

Wolfe is interviewed by Nancy Kress*. They don't give much explanation about what 'new sun' is about, but it is interesting to see what Wolfe, and Kress, were like. Also interesting to see that it was once possible to have a 30 minute TV interview without any interruptions by advertisements for food and medicines.

* There is a second interviewer, but I, like Kress and Wolfe, mostly ignored him.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Ed wrote: "Wolfe is interviewed by Nancy Kress."

It was a great interview, thanks!

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

Stephen wrote: "I’ve just passed the halfway point. Interesting novel."

I am just about the same, and I am not hating it, but I am ready for it to be over. There are too many digressions. The plot is SO obscured.

Also, getting tired of words that the Kindle attached dictionary does not know. Mostly I just skip over them, though there have been a couple that I wished I were in the kindle dictionary because I kind of lost the meaning of the sentence. My vocabulary is pretty darn big, and I am amazed and how he chooses these obscure words, most of which I think are real, but archaic. I'm trying to decide if he's a genius or a pretentious bore who is showing off. Only time will tell.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "I'm trying to decide if he's a genius or a pretentious bore who is showing off. Only time will tell"

I'd say he is a talented author, like quite a few other Hugo/Nebula nominees over the years. In this particular book he tries to play with a lot of tropes but exactly this attempt to go very broadly is I guess a problem of the book

[Allan]

Halfway through, and I am finding much easier to read and much more memorable than my first time. I thought it would be a bit of slog, but I'm not finding it so now. I have the volume with Books 1 and 2, so I plan to move on through The Claw of the Conciliator as long as it keeps moving like this.

[Stephen]

I’ve also been finding it quite absorbing and making good progress. I may not move straight on to Claw, but I’ve been thinking of getting to it pretty soon and hoping to finish the whole 4-book work by the end of August. I also have the omnibus volumes, Shadow & Claw and Sword & Citadel.

[Stephen]

I’ve finished the book. I’m well caught up in the story and as I noted earlier I intend to continue with the other 3 volumes of The Book of the New Sun fairly soon. I’ve given it 4 stars, maybe 5 would have been fairer.

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Stephen wrote: "I intend to continue with the other 3 volumes of The Book of the New Sun fairly soon. "

I may join you if you wish a buddy read later this year

[Allan]

Oleksandr wrote: "Stephen wrote: "I intend to continue with the other 3 volumes of The Book of the New Sun fairly soon. "

I may join you if you wish a buddy read later this year"

I intend to continue with the series as well. I'll probably tackle Book 2 in July, as I've already read one of the monthlies.

[Stephen]

I’ve been thinking July as well for The Claw of the Conciliator. I won’t be reading the group’s “doorstopper” in August so I had thought of continuing then, but I’m open to waiting a month or two for a buddy read.

[Allan]

I could read the 3rd book in August along with the long book, then hit the 4th in September.

[Allan]

We could make this a group series challenge, as we've done with other series, if there are more people interested.

[Rebecca]

I need to read sword and citadel so I'm in

[Kateblue, 2nd star to the right and straight on til morning]

I'm not really that interested in the others. I mean, it was ok, but I'm not in the mood to read the next, at least not now

[Oleksandr, a.k.a. Acorn]

Kateblue wrote: "I'm not really that interested in the others. I mean, it was ok, but I'm not in the mood to read the next, at least not now"

My interest was invigorated after reading a few reviews of the book on the net

[RJ - Slayer of Trolls]

I had to pause this one and all my other readings for a bit due to some unusual vision issues I am dealing with. I'll be back to this one as soon as everything is cleared up but not sure exactly when that will be right now.

[Stephen]

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "I had to pause this one and all my other readings for a bit due to some unusual vision issues I am dealing with. I'll be back to this one as soon as everything is cleared up but not sure exactly wh..."

Good luck!

[Allan]

Are we making the continuation a group challenge or a buddy read? I'm planning to take up Claw mid-month, probably.

[Stephen]

I’m fine with either option. Mid-month is good for me as well.

[Allan]

Is anyone continuing with reading this series? I read The Claw of the Conciliator in July & I hope to get to The Sword of the Lictor this month. It might be tough with the lengthy Earth being on paper for me, but I do intend to fit it in somewhere, maybe end of August or early September.

[Stephen]

I’m definitely continuing, and intend to get to The Sword of the Lictor before the end of the month. I forgot about this thread and added comments about Claw to the “What Are You Reading Now” one.

[Lars]

I read Shadow of a torturer in July and I just started on the fourth book this morning, it’s really a special series with a lot of references and rehashing of old myths and stories, set in a strange far future medieval setting.