SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
This topic is about
The Tusks of Extinction
Group Reads Discussions 2024
>
"Tusks of Extinction" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*
I liked the story but it felt a little unfinished and definitely more novella than a novel. 1- I felt Damira redefined mammoth society with the transplant. And that the rampant hunger for ivory is even stronger in the future than at present.the plot was really just a few scenes: Damira 's adaptation and leadership, the attack against the poachers, and lastly the attack against the rich hunted which Damira would not tolerate.
somehow those who transferred Damira 's brain did not really understand all possible consequences, as well as her instinct to attack those who preyed on mammoths/ elephants for any reason...
Ellen wrote: "I liked the story but it felt a little unfinished and definitely more novella than a novel. 1- I felt Damira redefined mammoth society with the transplant. And that the rampant hunger for ivory is ..."That "rampant hunger for ivory" thing jarred me this morning while listening to it. I remember back in the 90s the utterly catastrophic decline in elephant populations that led to all the desperate measures to save them. This graph, which shows that in 1979 we still had 1.3 million African Elephants, but by 1995 we were down to less than 300 thousand, is heartbreaking: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/af...
But more recently, it seems that the rate of decline is slowing, and per the UN the rate of poaching is also down: https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories...
So while elephant populations remain really alarming, it also seems like the headlong rush to nothing has been curbed a little. I sincerely hope that in whatever year of the future Damira's human life happens, anti-poaching efforts are better than what she lives.
Mod
What did you originally think it was about, Ryan?
Mod
Ahh, I see. I haven’t read his other book so I had no frame of reference there.
I definitely think that Mountain in the Sea was a story about octopi but with other material interposed. Don't think a novel can have just one idea. I greatly enjoyed it. One of the best novels from last year that was overlooked for awards.I enjoyed Tusks of Extinction for its narrower focus. Again, this had very interesting ideas, particularly about the reason for Damira to join the herd to teach them how to behave.
I think Naylor is one of the best writers these days with big ideas and after Mountain and this book I'm keeping an eye out for anything he writes.
Mod
Corinne wrote: "I was worried that my instinct to protect myself from witnessing the suffering of animals would be too much but I made it through. The author did not abuse his power to inflict great suffering onto..."I had a similar an experience with the beginning and being confused to what was going on. Was she human or was she an elephant? Once I realized the timeline wasn’t completely linear t was much easier for me to grasp what was going on. I was however also glad to not be listening to it because I don’t know if I would have gotten through that part if I had been.
By the end, it felt like the Anthony and Vladimir storyline felt a bit repetitive to me. I get that it held importance but it sort felt too stretched with the poachers and the mammoths. Also the mammoths murders of the park rangers felt off to me. It’s also something I get on a surface level, especially looking at it from the mammoths pov, but at the same time but then talking things out with Dr. Aslanov. I don’t know, it just felt their deaths were sort of avoidable had they mind spoke to Damira about how they planed to fund things prior to putting her mind into a mammoth.
Corinne wrote: "Entrepreneur plans to resurrect woolly mammoths Sept 2021 Natural History Museum article: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2...
..."
I wish I got to see more of why Vladimir liked Ant. Anthony seemed like a pretty terrible guy from the start, from what I read, outside the few positive the Vlad said. It’s about the mammoths and the terror of what damage people can do to other species and maybe, for the most part, we’re supposed to feel disconnected with the humans?
I did love that line. “If you pull the trigger, I will stop loving you.” Also thought the scene with Kara deciding not to stomp the boy to paste was pretty powerful.
A couple years ago I listened to Beth Shapiro's book How to Clone a Mammoth: The Science of De-Extinction, and the short version is that we can't. There are many, many (REPETITIVELY MANY) reasons given why it's not possible - but it's an intriguing concept. So when I realized that this book was about de-extinctioned mammoths, I was interested to see how some of those challenges were overcome. I was disappointed that this wasn't really provided in this story. Yes, they were brought to the Siberian steppe, but climate change is already reducing the permafrost there now, and this is likely to only get worse years in the future. So I'm not sure how this climate would support their species. Maybe the genes from warmer climate elephants were selected to make this less of an issue? I don't know.
The concept of de-extinction is interesting to me, but honestly, I feel like it's a waste of time. We can't even reliably work together to prevent our OWN likely extinction due to climate change, so why bring back species that have already gone just to kill them off a second time. #ever-the-optimist
But still, using mammoths in this story was effective for a few reasons. 1) It establishes future technology that raises hope of bringing back other species; 2) it makes sense to implant Damira into the mind of a creature that wouldn't already have environmental knowledge and memory and instinct; 3) Siberian climate would suit a mammoth far more than an elephant, even with alterations to their genes to support colder temps. 4) Mammoths being rare would be far more coveted by the kind of people who want the kind of prestige that comes from having something one of a kind.
Which brings me to Dima and Anthony. I found their relationship fascinating. I loved that we only saw it through Dima's eyes, and his growing disillusionment with his marriage really struck a chord with me. He fell in love with the IDEA of Anthony. He fell in love with the Anthony that he thought loved him for him, who saw him as an equal, and not just someone to exert power over. But the more he saw of this other side of Anthony, the Anthony who would pay millions or billions just to be able to shoot a defenseless animal for the sport of it, even if it is nominally in the service of preservation and population control, the more he learned that this Anthony was not someone he could even like.
I think, as a woman, this struck such a chord with me because it's unfortunately very common for women to be with a man for years, and then realize they married a stranger after the vows are spoken. All of a sudden the smiling charming version of the person sharing their life turns into a controlling and cold alternate version.
I know that this is not exactly the same as what Dima experienced, but it's close. He was married to Ant for 10 years, but even he admitted that there were two sides to Ant and he only knew one of them. Before, he saw him as a sort of benevolent man, ruthless in business probably, but still ultimately good and kind and compassionate. But then realizing that that the person he THOUGHT he loved has the capacity to want to kill something so rare and precious, something known to be sentient, intelligent, and emotional, just because he can, and apparently despite not even seeming to enjoy the sport of it... it changed everything for Dima. It would for me, too, absolutely. I think it's more than a difference of view or hidden bias. It's a fundamental redefinition of a person you thought you knew, and not in a positive way.
Anyway, moving on, I found the memory aspect to be really fascinating. As elephants are known to have long memories, the concept of inserting the downloaded memories of a person (the memory of a person?) into a mammoth in the hopes of teaching it how to survive and pass on learned behaviors and build new shared mammoth memories was great.
Additionally, I really liked the way that each memory of someone who had passed was depicted. Particularly thinking of the line from the boy's POV where he mentioned that he was losing everyday memories of his mother because there weren't any reference points to attach to them. And thinking of Koyon's mother using her scent memory to remember her dead child. Those definitely spoke to me.
Overall, I really liked this. I thought it was a good length and though it was a little confusing at first, once it came together and started going, it really worked for me.
I too really enjoyed this. I have to say, I didn’t have any difficulties with the time line stuff. It’s possible I missed some stuff listening to it and was thus less bothered? But still, it worked for me. I agree with and thought a lot of the same things as Becky, so I won’t rehash them exactly.
In addition to the connection that smells trigger memories in the mammoths and also worked for the human mother, I thought it was an interesting extrapolation that Damira as Mammoth’s memories from her human phase would be triggered by smells during her Mammoth phase. Memories that she didn’t really have access to anymore as a human and definitely not with such clarity and vividness.
DivaDiane wrote: "I too really enjoyed this. I have to say, I didn’t have any difficulties with the time line stuff. It’s possible I missed some stuff listening to it and was thus less bothered? But still, it worked..."It's probably because of my habit of not reading the book description. So I didn't really know what this was about beyond a general concept.
I was confused when first meeting Damira as a mammoth, and then meeting her a second time as a human holding a gun. I read it twice just to make sure that I hadn't read it wrong or something. Definitely the same name? Definitely the first Damira is an animal, second absolutely human... OK then.
I just went with it after that.
My take:A novella is hard to write. Naylor wanted a tighter focus, which I appreciate. But he still had to squeeze a lot in, and found it easier (more efficient?) to do so by using the shifting pov's and bouncing around in time, which it seems a lot of us had a bit of trouble with. The characters were more iconic, in service to the themes, rather than real people, too... which usually wouldn't bother me in a work this short usually but did bother me this time anyway.
Neither were the themes developed. Hunting bad, esp. of an endangered sentient species. Got it. Use some of the pages that talked about that, and that dissed the poachers, and dissed Anthony, to explore mammoth society. *How* did Damira teach the others what to do, how to learn new behaviors?
Other than that I liked most of the same stuff you all have explained above. Memories, scent, Dima' disillusionment, Kara's show of mercy.
I still don't understand the foundational mission of the mammoth project though. Why did Naylor choose mammoths? Because they're charismatic?
Mod
I also thought the comparison with the kid being left by the mammoths and the elephant boy being left by the elephants to be trite. I'm not sure what it added to the story, except I guess to highlight, again, how elephants have social structures.
This was, ultimately, a very angry novella to me, and it didn't quite pull together in a satisfying way. It's geared to make humans feel things--with that exceptionally upsetting opener, Dima and Anthony's fall out over Dima realizing what hunting was like (I found this a bit infuriating...you married a trophy hunter and were surprised that he...hunts trophies?? With the kid who only knew hunting wanting to switch sides...it was still very human-centric, but also it bludgeoned us with that.
I loved the parts about elephant/mammoth customs, perceptions, senses etc. I wish we'd focused just on that and chosen a single central struggle--are we talking about how humans don't recognize culture in any other sapient (intentionally used word) creature? We could have done so much more there. Is the focus on economy-based wildlife preservation? Venomous Lumpsucker did that much better. Or is this a PBS special on the horrors of poaching?
Ultimately it ended in that latter category and I really wanted more about the animal lives, since I'm already exceptionally against sport hunting.
Mod
I think it took way too long to get to the actual plot (assuming the plot is Damira teaching mammoths how to get revenge, which is a book I could have loved). I think it spent way too much time giving Damira’s back story when all I really wanted to know was about the elephant/mammoth society in the present moment… (which I don’t feel like it ever really explained well, if at all).
There was a point where she was remembering her uncle reading the book about elephants and I just didn’t understand why, in a book this short, the author felt the need to include it? I think it was needlessly confusing.
And I agree with what Hank is saying about the way her “brain” was adapting to her mammoth body. At least, I think that’s what Naylor was trying to get at with the way he kept recalling her memories-because elephants are said to have good ones, maybe?
And also agreeing with Allison and Kim about Dima and Anthony. There didn’t seem to be any chemistry between them, couldn’t figure out why they were together. I had a hard time imagining there were any hidden depths to Anthony that would make him remotely appealing, but okay.
I think I just bounced off this book in every way imaginable. I don’t feel like I took anything from it other than Poaching is Bad. Which I already knew. It required too much suspension of disbelief and the only two moments when I said oh, that’s cool (mammoth revenge and mammoth mercy) were too fleeting to redeem this book in any meaningful way for me.
I appreciate everything you say, Sarah, but, synthetic mammoth? Did I miss something? I assumed that Damira was in a bred mammoth in much the same way that the Animorph kids were in their elephant, tiger, seagull, etc.(First book: The Invasion by K.A. Applegate.)
Mod
Mod
I wasn’t kidding when I said it was painful to read. I’d be two pages into the chapter and finding some reason to put it down so I’m not surprised.
Not the book for you! Good thing it was short! :smiles:
Mod
Yeah if it had been any longer or if it hadn’t been an SFFBC book probably would have quit back on page 11. *shrugs* I wanted to participate!
As far as "why mammoths" goes, I think the novella is part of a larger conversation about ecology, rewilding, and de-extinction. Mammoths are believed to be a keystone species and there are a couple of groups working on mammoth de-extinction. Some Russian scientists have set up a nature reserve in Siberia dubbed Pleistocene Park and are trying to restore prehistoric grasslands in an effort to mitigate climate change/permafrost melting (they believe mammoths maintained the grasslands prior to their extinction). Mammoth reintroduction would be a form of rewilding (reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone is another example of rewilding, which focuses on introducing or reintroducing animals to ecosystems to make them function better). I went down a nonfiction rabbit hole on this a few years ago. If you are interested in the topics I recommend How to Clone a Mammoth by Beth Shapiro, Wilding by Isabella Tree, Rewilding by Caine Blythe and Paul Jepson, and Twilight of the Mammoths by Paul Martin (the last is the least accessible to a layman).
Having read two books by this author now, I've noticed some things about his style. His books aren't about the plot so much as the ideas he wants to explore. The development of empathy is paramount to him and he'll write difficult stuff to read (elephant poaching) to try to inspire it. In this book I think what he really wanted to focus on was memories and how they tell us who we are. Since elephant/ mammoth life is so centered on memory, their past is very much active and with them. That's what Damira is struggling with because humans don't work that way but her consciousness now physically resides in a creature that experiences it's reality in this way. I think the author wants to talk about how the memories we keep edits and changes who we are.
Jacqie wrote: "Having read two books by this author now, I've noticed some things about his style. His books aren't about the plot so much as the ideas he wants to explore. "Philip K Dick is the same - lots of ideas, less about the actual implications and thorough exploration of them. It's why I don't really get along all that well with PKD books.
I think in this case, my bias did a lot of heavy lifting. Like Allison, I am vehemently against sport and trophy hunting, and even "glamorized" hunting for food, like apparently one of my mom's husband's favorite shows portrays. Sure, the hunter is eating his kill, but... he's going so far out of his way to do it, and making money from the TV show around it, that it just feels ethically wrong and gross to me.
Anyway, so, being of that opinion, I know that my mindset filled in a lot of the gaps that I likely would have nitpicked the hell out of had the story been counter to my views. (I'm just a flawed human, I admit it.)
For instance, Allison said: "I wanted to know more about Damira's radicalization--how she went from Jane Goodall to eco-terrorist".
For me, I never even questioned this. In my mind it was obvious that she was desperate, her efforts at changing hearts and minds, working in preservation, working in protection were failing again and again and again, and then having her friends murdered, etc... It's perfectly reasonable to me that this series of events would eventually cause her to lose all hope and resort to killing the poachers. I never got the Jane Goodall vibe from her though, to be fair. In my mind, she was always more militant and ready to fight. The first human interaction we have with her is her holding a gun - which is why it was SO jarring for me after previously meeting her in mammoth form.
I did question the mechanics and ethics of imprinting Damira's consciousness into the mammoth. Was the mammoth an infant when this happened? Or adult? I think I'm more okay with it if the mammoth was young, and Damira was always (or as close as possible) with her, but I find the concept of overriding a sentient mammoth's consciousness with a human one is disturbing. I understand that sometimes science must do things like this for a 'greater good', but it hurts my heart thinking about the violation of that act. Was it like a lobotomy to take out part of the mammoth's brain/personality and replace it with Damira's?
THIS kind of thinking is why I generally can't do "pure idea" books. They never really go to the implication depths my brain does.
Yeah, I read SF for the ideas, for the themes, for the What If and the Sense of Wonder... but there has to be some actual exploration of the implications etc. via a story, via characters.Thank you, Jessica, for the information. I will investigate the titles you mentioned.
I feel like reading this was a mammoth waste of time. (Just kidding, well sort of)I like others had a tough time with the concept of implanting a human brain into an elephant - I just don’t know if that would work. And then would that same brain be functional for the mammoth? Like all the mammoth instincts are still intact? And how would she communicate with the other mammoths. It all felt very magicky to me but I guess 100 years out maybe tech could do this.
I felt nothing for Vladimir or any of the other characters.
I just didn’t really care as I was reading this.
The communication between the boy and the mammoth also felt far fetched.
Christopher wrote: "I like others had a tough time with the concept of implanting a human brain into an elephant - I just don’t know if that would work. And then would that same brain be functional for the mammoth? Like all the mammoth instincts are still intact? And how would she communicate with the other mammoths. It all felt very magicky to me but I guess 100 years out maybe tech could do this."I think that the conversation between Ant and Dima about the rumors that the Russian leader had died and been memory-implanted into a new body is supposed to show that the technology is, at least theoretically, advanced enough to do this. But it does still feel a bit... woo-woo.
I have the same questions about whether the "host" body still retains any of itself. Is the original mind and personality still in there, just trapped behind some invading technologically-assisted mind?
It really raises a lot of ethical questions that the author doesn't address at all. I think we are supposed to root for Mammoth-Damira who has finally managed to "win" against the mammoth killers, and not question too much any of the "HOW" of that. We're supposed to side with the innocent animals rising up briefly to defend themselves, and then going back to their lives. The only concern mentioned after MDamira attacked was that they should have been clearer with her about the need for mammoth population control and funding.
"Hey, we're going to use advanced technology to implant your consciousness into a mammoth and make you a mammoth matriarch. We're going to rely on you to lead them, build a community, teach these new breed mammoths how to survive, how to basically be mammoths, but also, rather than using our advanced technology to control reproduction so that the population doesn't get too large for the environment we are going to give you, we're going to let mega-rich people pay to kill your kid, maybe. But only the males, we have to keep the females so they can breed. We're not monsters. Our advanced technology guns will prevent any females from being slaughtered by the uber-rich - it's perfectly safe... for you. Plus it will keep the "donations" rolling in so that we can keep "protecting" mammoths... That cool with you?"
Yeah, I see that going over REAL well.
And for me at least the human to human brain replacement science seems more plausible - the cross species replacement seems way more far-fetched. I think maybe if a little more explanation was given I might be able to accept it better.I guess another thing is wouldn’t the Russian scientist expect Damira to find out about his hunting scheme sooner or later? I feel like it almost made it as though he didn’t?
Also I feel like the mammoths “won” at the end, but now can’t they just come back and kill Damira? It feels like winning a battle rather than a war. Long run the mammoths will never defeat the humans.
Sorry to be so negative I’m not sure why this book evoked such a reaction out of me.
I was tempted to read Douglas Preston’s Extinction as a comparison piece as it’s also about de-extinction of Wooly Mammoths, but I’m not sure.
I don't think you're being negative, Christopher. I share a lot of the same thoughts and questions you have, even though I think in general I liked the story a bit more than you did. But, personally, I like a discussion that actually allows for a bit of criticism and negative reactions to a book. I can't stand discussion threads that are two word reactions and never go any deeper than that, or that are just so positive leaning that any deviation is "frowned on". As the person who usually is the Negative Nancy in discussions, I fully support you in all of your feelings and reactions! :P
Mod
I can’t tell if it’s just that my level of enjoyment was so low that I just wasn’t taking it in- or if I found it so implausible that I imagined a synthetic/robotic mammoth instead of a live/organic one. And I didn’t even stop to think about the human to human brain override. I think in my head again , I was imagining some sort of very human looking android they were putting these mind uploads in.
(All that is to say, I’m glad I’m not the only who found some of the explanations/details a little lacking.)
Christopher wrote: "And for me at least the human to human brain replacement science seems more plausible - the cross species replacement seems way more far-fetched. I think maybe if a little more explanation was give..."I didn’t think of that myself - winning a battle instead of the war. I agree with you though. Once this is found out, which I’m sure it would’ve been if the story continued, the humans would have easily wiped out the mammoth herd. Not to mention the funding would be gone.
It never truly felt that we were getting the mammoths perspective as we were in the head of all humans. Granted, one human was in the body of a mammoth. There were times we caught glimpses but it never felt one with nature. I don’t know if I’m making sense here.
I’m also tempted to listen to Extinction.
Well, I was ok with overlooking the feasibility of the implant. After all, most of us are fine with FTL travel, no? But yes, having it be more about what it's like to be a mammoth, with or without a human implant guiding you, would've enriched the book a lot.
Kim wrote: "I didn’t think of that myself - winning a battle instead of the war. I agree with you though. Once this is found out, which I’m sure it would’ve been if the story continued, the humans would have easily wiped out the mammoth herd."Honestly, this is likely the case regardless of whether Damira's situation is known or not. We already know that poachers found her herd once, despite all the precautions taken. We know that the poachers have drones to be able to search large swaths of area easily. We know that they have remote weapons to kill the mammoths without being anywhere nearby.
Mammoth-Damira fighting back against this one group of poachers isn't going to stop the next group, whether it's known she killed them or not. In order for her fight to be even remotely successful, she has to have the element of surprise and attack directly. Humans have many other options. Even if each group only kills one or two mammoths before obliviously riding in to pick up their loot and then being attacked and killed - her herd is doomed. Mammoths would never be able to reproduce enough to keep a stable population if the poachers keep having an incentive to kill mammoths.
If they know about Damira - that just makes it all the more likely that they'd plan ahead and wipe them out entirely in one fell swoop.
My thought experiment was this:Imagine your brain was magically switched with that of a human who lives in a remote country with a different culture and language and no access to the internet. How difficult would it be to communicate and integrate with the community. Now say that you are supposed to be their leader, this feels impossible.
Now say you have to do the same thing but with an extinct animal.
Oh, Christopher, yikes, you're right. The only way Damira could get along would be if the mammoths were much less sapient, more like blank slates. Of course she knows elephants a bit, but, yes, when you put it like that, well, the premise collapses....
The mammoths didn't have a culture before Damira. That's why she was needed. I see it like wildlife rehab. Before animals are released into the wild, some have to be taught by humans how to do what they would normally do if they hadn't needed intervention. For example, birds of prey are taught to hunt by dragging a piece of meat on a string for them to swoop onto. It's a delicate balance because the rehabbers don't want the animals to get too used to being around humans.
It reminds me of the Monty Python skit where they test the intelligence of penguins and they fail the test as they don't understand english.Then they give the test to humans in penguin language and they fail and then penguins take over the world.
I hear you Chris about Damira’s goal to be to teach the Mammoths elephant culture.I guess I just don’t buy that she could do it.
Say you took the top expert in Blue Whales and then replaced the brain of a Blue Whale with that expert’s. I don’t think they would all of sudden know how to speak whale language or understand it. I’m not sure how they would be able to lead and teach the others.
At least a human zookeeper could use fish as a Pavlovian reward system.
Maybe this could work if it was more of a merge between an animal brain & a humans rather than a replacement. Sorta like Memory Called Empire. But even then I’m not sure how the two reconcile against each other being so alien from each other. Also this isn’t really mentioned as far as I recall.
Anyway maybe just a thing we have to accept but for whatever reason I could not this time around.
This discussion reminds me of the visit I went on with school to the international crane foundation, where a keeper dressed up as a crane and did the mating dance to teach the other cranes what they were supposed to be doing (or something like that). I imagined Damira was like that dressed up keeper.
Chris wrote: "The mammoths didn't have a culture before Damira. ..."I'm not sure that's completely true. (Or would be, even if the author says so.)
I'm also not at all sure that Damira is the only mind in her mammoth's body....
Sorry to bring up a YA series again, but issues of consent were very important in the Animorphs. The teens were reluctant to use sapient beings as hosts, once they realized how much the original body understood that it was being controlled.*
-----
*No, not always. Due to ghostwriters and expediency for the sake of plot there were always inconsistencies and messy bits. But it was one of the themes explored.
Cheryl wrote: "Chris wrote: "The mammoths didn't have a culture before Damira. ..."I'm not sure that's completely true. (Or would be, even if the author says so.)"
I wonder if Chris used "culture" as shorthand for the larger idea of knowledge of how to form familial units and hierarchy, mate, share and pass on generational knowledge of how to find food, what is safe, what is dangerous, where to find water, which water sources are safe to drink from (creeks and pools) vs dangerous (fast rivers, the ocean), etc.
I think they'd have had culture even if it was a blank slate sort. Or maybe an interim one from being bred and initially raised in captivity.
But then this does bring up an interesting thought to me, because generational trauma has been found to cause physiological symptoms in humans, and I'm wondering if the elephant DNA would have contained any sort of trauma markers from being poach-hunted to extinction, and whether that would have affected the mammoths in any way.
I don’t know much about this stuff but I have seen discussion of transmissible animal “culture” in popular books I’ve read, e.g. The Tribe of Tiger: Cats and Their Culture.I loved this one (The Tusks of Extinction) by the way.
Becky wrote: "A couple years ago I listened to Beth Shapiro's book How to Clone a Mammoth: The Science of De-Extinction, and the short version is that we can't. There are many, many (REPETITIVELY..."You’ve said it all for me. Agree!
This was in my local news this morning, and I had to share. I had no idea until reading this thread (and the book) that the idea of “de-extinction” for mammoths was really something people were trying to make happen. “Could Alaska once again be home to woolly mammoths? This reporter had to find out“ (KTOO News, Juneau) https://www.ktoo.org/2024/05/29/could...
Got through the audiobook almost in one sitting today.I had some doubts about reading the books (the blurb wasn't too appealing), but I'm glad I did.
I actually loved all the multy-temporal POVs. And the whole story seemed complex and intertwined. I enjoyed being in the mind of a mammoth (in a way), even though it was mostly bleak.
Although I was emotionally invested in the story, a few things bugged me a bit.
- I had hard time believing in a technology that can recreate the mind of someone who died decades ago (she wasn't frozen, was she) and what's more, put it inside people's and animals' bodies. That took too much effort to turn on my suspension of disbelief on that one.
- While listening I thought that I heard wrong, but I see that many in the comments say "Dima and Anthony". It seems I'm prone to go into tangents about silly things, but I just cant. Dima is short for Dmitry, absolutely different name. Vladimir is Vova, Vovchik, Vovan, Vovka, but NEVER Dima.
Kaia - if you're interested in reading more about de-extinction, you could try How to Clone a Mammoth: The Science of De-Extinction. I've read it, and it's a bit repetitive (the author covers the same challenges from multiple different angles) but still interesting. I would NOT recommend the audiobook though, unless you particularly enjoy Moira Rose's pronunciation style. O_oOlga, I didn't question the Dima nickname at all. I'm not very familiar with Russian diminutives, though, to be fair. (And honestly, some of the ones I AM familiar with don't make sense. Peggy for Margaret? HOW? I digress. lol)
Regarding Danira's mind - they didn't recreate it decades later, they had "downloaded" it while she was alive (about a year before her death, if I recall), and stored it. I do agree that the method of implanting it into an animal brain is questionable though.
Kaia wrote: "This was in my local news this morning, and I had to share. I had no idea until reading this thread (and the book) that the idea of “de-extinction” for mammoths was really something people were try..."Wow!
Becky wrote: "Kaia - if you're interested in reading more about de-extinction, you could try How to Clone a Mammoth: The Science of De-Extinction. I've read it, and it's a bit repetitive (the aut..."I missed that about Damira. Thanks for the explanation. Makes a bit more sense now.
Do you consider a shorter form of a name to be a nickname? I just imagined it differently, interested in how you see it.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
How to Clone a Mammoth: The Science of De-Extinction (other topics)How to Clone a Mammoth: The Science of De-Extinction (other topics)
How to Clone a Mammoth: The Science of De-Extinction (other topics)
The Tusks of Extinction (other topics)
The Tribe of Tiger: Cats and Their Culture (other topics)
More...
Please see here for how we decided to allow this book on the shelf.
First Impressions thread here.
A few questions to get us started:
1. What did you think of the elephant society?
2. What did you think of the rationale for having Damira join them?
3. What did you think of the plot?
4. How did you interpret the message of this book?