Zuleika Dobson - Ch 1 - 4

[Silver]

I am finding I am having trouble getting into this story as of yet. I find that the writing style reads a bit awkward for me. To me some of the sentence structure comes off as a bit cumbersome.

I was intrigued by the name Zuleika which struck me as being a somewhat unusual name. So I looked it up to see if I could find out anything about it, and apparently the name comes from a somewhat a controversial/scandalous Biblical figure.

Here is some more information about the Biblical Zuleika

http://annapatricio.blogspot.com/2012...

http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?p...

The meaning of the name Zuleika is fair, brilliant, lovely, or possibly Brilliant beauty.

The the unusual/foreignness of her name paired with the description we are given her, which makes her sound as being to say the least something of an unconventional beauty, and in which she is compared to
a gipsy makes her come across as being somewhat exotic in nature.

[Deborah, Moderator]

I've just started the book, and am finding his writing has a cadence. It does appear that the author likes to play with language for shear enjoyment. Have to say I've already smiled at the description of her library - two books. That's not even a TBR pile in my house :)

[Lynnm]

I've had the same problem as Silver. I found the writing in the first chapter to be so awkward that I questioned whether or not I wanted to read the book. But, I did continue on, and the writing seemed to get better (or I got used to it).

Glad I did, because I do like the story. Although, Zuleika as femme fatale should be a threat to someone a bit more likable. The Duke is completely unsympathetic....so in love with himself that quite frankly, right now, I don't care if Zuleika does him wrong.

Both are them are shallow and superficial based on their looks, and the Duke adds shallowness and superficiality based on his title, wealth and position.

I also was a bit confused about her "beauty." In one line, Beerbohm says that she isn't that beautiful...her eyes are too big, etc. But then immediately afterwards, he writes that she is absolutely beautiful.

[Silver]

Lynnm wrote: "I've had the same problem as Silver. I found the writing in the first chapter to be so awkward that I questioned whether or not I wanted to read the book. But, I did continue on, and the writing se..."

Around chapters 3 and 4 the story improved for me as well. Either I just got used to the rhythm of the writing or the writing improved.

I am very intrigued by the idea of a woman making a living for herself as a conjurer.

Readering the idea of Zuleika being a femme fatale, I am not yet whoely certain if this term can be applied to her (though I haven't quite finished chapter 4 yet, so I will see how things progress) but thus far, while she does have flocks of admieriers who through themselves at her feet, and she dose enjoy the attention, it does also seem as if there is a certain innocence about her.

She does not appear to be setting out to purposefully seduce these men, and she is described as being while perhaps she also doesn't do anything to deter them because she basks in the attention I don't believe she has any true malicious intentions towards them, nor do I think she has any intentions of hurting
them.

The question of her beauty did seem a bit contradictory. I had wondered if maybe it was intended that it was more than just her physical appearance which stimulated such appeal and attraction from others, but a sort of charisma she had, or that it was the uniqueness of her appearance that became enchanting to those she meets.

[Cindy]

I am also finding this hard to read. I don't understand some of the writers references such as the Temple of Orsis. My kindle dictionary is not helping. It is coming up with no suggestions. I got to chapter 4 and will keep reading. I found the characters, especially the Duke, to be stupid almost to the point of being comical.

[Silver]

The Temple of Osiris was a temple created by the Ancient Egyptians in dedication to the god Osiris who is the Egyptian god of the underworld/afterlife and death.

Here is some information about it

http://www.pyramids-of-egypt.com/the-...

[Everyman]

Silver wrote: "I am finding I am having trouble getting into this story as of yet. I find that the writing style reads a bit awkward for me. To me some of the sentence structure comes off as a bit cumbersome."

I was planning to make the same comment, but you beat me to it, and said it far better than I would have.

In addition to weird style and sentence structure, I'm coming across far more words that my Nook dictionary doesn't recognize than I do in most books. It interrupts my reading since I don't like just glossing over words I don't recognize, but prefer to look them up. When my Nook dictionary doesn't have them, I have to get up and go to the bookshelves to consult the OED, after which I've lost the thread of the book. This is rarely necessary in most books, but happens far too often already in ZD.

For just a few examples:

ebon, which is an archaic (largely 13th and 14th c) spelling for ebony (not ebony) -- I had to make sure that was it and not some other word with a different meaning.

cheval-glass -- yes, it really does come from the French for horse. Why, don't ask me.

chevelure

gallimaufry

guerdon

Narcissine -- which even the OED terms "rare" and properly isn't a reference to the youth Narcissus but to the plant narcissus, which, according to Pliny and Plutarch (says the OED), produces numbness through a heavy or narcotic effect. (Since he uses the capital N, Beerbohm may be incorrectly intending it as a substitute for narcissistic.)

And that's just from the first few pages.

I'm pondering why he uses such unusual grammar/sentence structure and unfamiliar language when he must know they will interfere with the smooth flow of reading by an ordinary reader. What is his goal or purpose in writing this way? This isn't the sort of book where pompous erudition will gain academic respect, is it? If not that, though, why?

[Everyman]

Silver wrote: "Readering the idea of Zuleika being a femme fatale, I am not yet whoely certain if this term can be applied to her (though I haven't quite finished chapter 4 yet, so I will see how things progress) but thus far, while she does have flocks of admieriers who through themselves at her feet, and she dose enjoy the attention, it does also seem as if there is a certain innocence about her. "

So far, I agree with you. She seems to consider her beauty (if it is such; as Lynnm noted Beerbohm is contradictory about that) simply as an attribute and not as a weapon.

[Silver]

Everyman wrote: I'm pondering why he uses such unusual grammar/sentence structure and unfamiliar language when he must know they will interfere with the smooth flow of reading by an ordinary reader. What is his goal or purpose in writing this way?"

I wonder, would the readers of his day have readily understood these words and they have just gone out of style and become archaic to us?

Or where they obscure even in the time frame in which he was writing?

[Clara]

Silver wrote: "Lynnm wrote: "I've had the same problem as Silver. I found the writing in the first chapter to be so awkward that I questioned whether or not I wanted to read the book. But, I did continue on, and ..."

Silver, I completely agree with your impression of Zuleika's character. I also think she is innocent, even while she is mischieviously playing with her attractions. To my mind, she appears in every way to be a little girl at heart. This is strongly emphasized by her unusual credulity when first encountered with the conjurer's tricks. I have a vivid picture of her facing her companion, watching his every move with widely open eyes, her mouth slightly ajar. For Zuleika, life seems to be a mere toy under her possession--she seems at once completely absorbed in it and completely untouched by it.

[Silver]

Clara wrote: "To my mind, she appears in every way to be a little girl at heart. This is strongly emphasized by her unusual credulity when first encountered with the conjurer's tricks..."

Child-like is a good way to describe her, at first I kept thinking that there was something about her that just seemed "natural" or almost nymph like, in her carfree attitude towrds everything that happens, and just taking delight in the positive attention.

That is a good comparison with her and the conjuring tricks. She was disappointed when it was revealed to her how they where done (as if she had indeed believed it was real magic) and than later when she first started performing tricks of her own there was a mention of the women who would pretend they did not know how the tricks where done.

This perhaps does show the differences in her attitude, compared to others, the fact that she still does have this child-like wonder about her in the way she views the world.

[Clara]

"Her dark hair was not even strained from her forehead as an orphan's should be. Parted somewhere at the side, it fell in an avalanche of curls upon one eyebrow. From her right ear drooped heavily a black pearl, from her left a pink; the difference gave an odd, bewitching witchery to the little face between."

I feel this passage, in particular the image of the mismatching earrings, perfectly expresses not only the nature of Zuleika's character, but the entire style of the book. The bizarreness of the story is only too obvious. All that is missing is for the Duke to be the best PROFESSIONAL pianist, in addition to all his other numerous accomplishments... and why not have thrown in a few titles as a leading scientist, unsurpassed painter, military commander, and prolific author? As for Zuleika, I can hardly dare to give my mental picture of her sufficient attractions; she has made the world (or a certain portion of the world's population) prostrate before her by being no more and no less than a trick magician.
Strange as it may sound, and unlike many of you, I have been enjoying this bizarreness, precisely because it has swept me off my feet and left me somewhat perplexed. I am curious to see how the book will progress. For now I can only conclude that the Duke will not meet a very happy fate.
As for the language, it is my opinion (and here of course I may be utterly wrong) that it is strange and exotic not because it was intended for highly intellectual audiences, or because the audience of the time was fully acquainted with the many terms that we are unfamiliar with, but because the author wanted to add additional eccentricity to his novel. The story is obviously not concerned with realism; it is written in the style of a childish rhapsody. Replete as it is with ebullient queerness, I cannot--as I have mentioned before--stop wondering at what it will all lead to. What message will I find?

[Emma]

Silver wrote: "Everyman wrote: I'm pondering why he uses such unusual grammar/sentence structure and unfamiliar language when he must know they will interfere with the smooth flow of reading by an ordinary reader. What is his goal or purpose in writing this way?"

I wonder, would the readers of his day have readily understood these words and they have just gone out of style and become archaic to us? ..."

I think Beerbohm's using this language to make it clear that the story is to be more of a fable than realism - as Clara said eloquently above, to give it a bizarre and surreal effect.

However, his audience at the time would probably have found his vocabulary less confusing than we do nowadays, as a similar use of archaic language was found in some Victorian poetry and historical novels. So his readers would understand it, though they would probably still find it rather arch and mannered.

[Madge UK]

I agree Emma, the writing reads like a fairy story and fairy stories in the original often have archaic language. There is a Swiftian 18C Gulliver's Travels flavour to it.

Cindy: The characters are meant to be comical and OTT. It is a satire, Beerbohm is sending up some of the characters of his day.

[Madge UK]

Somes notes on the landmarks mentioned in Chapter 1 as Zuleika is driven in a landau through Oxford:

Here is a good explanation of Eights Week, the peculiar Oxford Uni rowing competition mentioned in Chapter 1 where you 'bump' to get ahead:

http://blog.sarahlaurence.com/2008/05...

A history of the straw boater hat once worn by toffs at Oxford and Cambridge, now democratised and worn by everyone:). Oxford boaters had dark blue ribbons (also the rowing colour):

http://tragicocomedia.com/2011/05/04/...

'As the landau rolled into "the Corn," ' - this is a reference to the Cornmarket, a major shopping street. 'The Broad is a wide street known particularly for its bookshops. A landau was a carriage where people faced each other and which could be open or closed. It was a status symbol, like a Rolls Royce. Nowadays much used for weddings:

http://www.theostler.org.uk/C20BlackL...

'From those pedestals which intersperse the railing of the Sheldonian, the high grim busts of the Roman Emperors stared down at the fair stranger....' See Background information.

nihil non commiserunt stupri, savitiae, impietatis =
There was no enormity, whether of impurity or savagery or impiety,that they did not commit."

Reference to two bishops 'who perished for their faith': There were actually three, known as the Oxford Martyrs, Bishops Hugh Latimer and Nicholas Ridley burned at the stake in 1555 and Archbishop Thomas Cranmer burned in 1556.

[Madge UK]

In Chapter II Zuleika's 'library' of 2 books is satirised: 'On another small table stood Zuleika's library. Both books were in covers of dull gold. On the back of one cover BRADSHAW, in beryls, was encrusted; on the back of the other, A.B.C. GUIDE, in amethysts, beryls, chrysoprases, and garnets. ' Both were railway guides, Bradshaws, published in 1851 and the ABC, published in 1853, which was the one used by Agatha Christie in the ABC Murders.

Having Railway Guides encrusted in semi precious stones shows Z's ostentation, and that she is not quite top notch or they wouldn't be semi precious and the gold wouldn't be dull.

In Chapter III it says about the Duke: 'But for his untimely death he would have taken [more honours]..'. Is this ironic foreshadowing?

[Frances, Moderator]

I was struggling a bit to place the style of this read-thanks for your helpful comments-viewing it as a modern fairy tale or fable is just right! I was intrigued by her work as a conjuror as well, which gives a sense of her as a decidedly lower class performer, and yet despite knowing her profession she is welcomed into this exclusive society. The incident with the pearl earrings and tie studs changing colours adds to the magical quality of the tale.

I'm also enjoying the rather archaic vocabulary-I must confess that I tend to guess at meanings as I read as I hate to pause to look things up-this has resulted over my lifetime in a few misunderstandings and mis-learnings of words.

Madge-as ever-thanks for your research and links-particularly for those of us from outside Britain they're very helpful to get a flavour of the social situation and geography/architecture of the time.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Everyman wrote: "Silver wrote: "I am finding I am having trouble getting into this story as of yet. I find that the writing style reads a bit awkward for me. To me some of the sentence structure comes off as a bit ..."

I'm having a similar issue with looking up words. My edition has a short intro which indicated that words were like a living breathing thing to him.

[Deborah, Moderator]

MadgeUK wrote: "Somes notes on the landmarks mentioned in Chapter 1 as Zuleika is driven in a landau through Oxford:

Here is a good explanation of Eights Week, the peculiar Oxford Uni rowing competition mentione..."

Thanks Madge for the clarifications. A big help.

[Deborah, Moderator]

One more note from the intro in my book. There are two schools of thought re this work. One is that the reader cannot enjoy it without knowledge of the classical literature (think the reference to the temple). Another is that it can be enjoyed for the satire regardless.

If we remember that he was a characterist, we might see the satire more clearly.

[Madge UK]

Good points Deborah. I think you have to understand the classical allusions to understand his satire of them but the satire of his characters can be enjoyed for its own sake. It is perhaps important to realise that what MB was sending up was the Cult of Beauty in the Aesthetic Movement, viz the gem encrusted guides, Zuleika's and the Duke's clothes, later behaviour. Today we are generally encouraged to see it in a good light but some Victorians thought that because aestheticism advocated whatever behavior was likely to maximize the beauty and happiness in one’s life, in the tradition of hedonism, it was immoral.

Aestheticism, 'Art for Art'ssake', and decadence shocked the Victorian establishment by 'challenging traditional values, foregrounding sensuality and promoting artistic, sexual and political experimentation'. The dress and behaviour of our characters is doing that and MB is drawing attention to the decadence with satire. Just as his caricatures satirised dress and behaviour, so do his descriptions in ZD.

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles...

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/videos/c...

[Silver]

I cannot t help but to feel a bit sorry for the Duke. He is in such an impossible position. Loving a woman who only loves him for showing disinterest in her so the moment he expresses affection she leaves off loving him.

[Robert]

In addition to Madge's observation about aestheticism, Beerbohm is also parodying old romances. The story of Marcela and Chrysostom is from Don Quixote, which is itself a send up of chivalric romances. Things like the enumeration of the duke's titles and accomplishments seem to come from that tradition.

But I think Beerbohm's main purpose is to entertain his following, who would all catch the references to Oxford and its characteristics.

I've read this before and contrary to what Francis Hackett states in the introduction to the Modern Library edition, there is most definitely a dull stretch. This is a short novella made into a novel. The wit is too often belabored.

This is a book that won't suffer from skimming. If a scene seems long-winded, skip ahead.

[Janice (JG)]

Robert wrote: "In addition to Madge's observation about aestheticism, Beerbohm is also parodying old romances. The story of Marcela and Chrysostom is from Don Quixote, which is itself a send up of chivalric roman...

But I think Beerbohm's main purpose is to entertain his following, who would all catch the references to Oxford and its characteristics..."

I was wondering about the reference to Chrysostom, so thank you. DQ is in a TBR stack.

I am thoroughly entertained by the prose and the lovely silliness Beerbohm evokes. Since I don't know anything about Oxford (except what others, especially Madge (thank you!!), supplies us with), I am apparently missing a great deal, and yet I am having fun so far. I think this would make a very amusing animated film.

[Clara]

MadgeUK wrote: "In Chapter II Zuleika's 'library' of 2 books is satirised: 'On another small table stood Zuleika's library. Both books were in covers of dull gold. On the back of one cover BRADSHAW, in beryls, was..."

Thanks for clarifying on the books. I was wondering what "ABC" was exactly...obviously not something very intellectual. It did sound familiar though, and now that you've mentioned Christie and the train guide, I see why.

[Clara]

I thought the references to Zuleika's conquests abroad quite amusing. There is certainly a lot of stereotype (purposefully added, I suppose): in Paris, she is lavished with jewels; in Germany, Prince Vierfuenfsechs-Siebenachtnuen (literally "Prince FourFiveSix-SevenEightNine"--a pun on endlessly long German words, or on the extensive numeric title of the nobility?) is imprisoned in his domicile by the Kaiser as punishment for his marital offer to the "English virgin"; in Russia Grand Duke Salamander Salamandrovitch adds a golden touch to her conjuring tricks; in Spain it's the torero, ect. Perhaps my favorite was the ludicrous New York news coverage.

[Renee]

I have to admit that I'm finding this a delightful giggle of a read. I love the playful use of language and the tongue-in-cheek references. The high tone applied to vanity, popularity, and flirtation. Thank you, Madge, for pointing out other things which I would have gone without appreciating. I agree, that there certainly seems to be a bit of foreshadowing in the young Duke's unattained honors. Perhaps Zulieka will traverse the novel on a quest for true love.

[Renee]

Lol. Just got to the end. What's that quote from Woody Allen? Something about not wanting to be in a club that would have him?

[Everyman]

Clara wrote: "Prince Vierfuenfsechs-Siebenachtnuen (literally "Prince FourFiveSix-SevenEightNine"--a pun on endlessly long German words, or on the extensive numeric title of the nobility?) "

Thanks for the translation. I had skimmed right over that, but I see now it's yet another absurd element in an absurd (but enjoyably so) book.

[Lynnm]

Renee wrote: "Lol. Just got to the end. What's that quote from Woody Allen? Something about not wanting to be in a club that would have him?"

Wasn't that one of the Marx brothers who said that? I could be wrong though. :-)

EDIT: Just Googled it - Groucho Marx...

[Lynnm]

Clara wrote: "I thought the references to Zuleika's conquests abroad quite amusing. There is certainly a lot of stereotype (purposefully added, I suppose): in Paris, she is lavished with jewels; in Germany, Prin..."

Thanks for that...sadly, just went over that in the book without thinking deeply enough about it.

[Renee]

Thanks, Lynn. Somehow it's funnier from Groucho. Of course, it would be entirely realistic for the Duke to lose interest if Zulieka suddenly changed her mind again in the next section.

[Robin P, Moderator]

MadgeUK wrote: "I agree Emma, the writing reads like a fairy story and fairy stories in the original often have archaic language. There is a Swiftian 18C Gulliver's Travels flavour to it.

Cindy: The characters ar..."

Yes, I think the style is mock heroic - expressions such as "there came a youth" and the use of elaborate vocabulary. I am just starting but I loved the first chapter.

[Sara]

Thank you MadgeUK for all the useful clarifications. It was lovely to know what the two books represent and while I laughed at the size of her library (especially having brought them to Oxford, the seat of learning), I had a better laugh after knowing what they were.

I keep thinking of Wilde's The Importance of Being Earnest while reading this purposefully ironic tale. The paradox that Zuleika can only love someone who shows no interest in her and the Duke only has her love as long as he fails to recognize his own seems to have great potential for mishap. I am wondering how Noaks is going to fit into this dance.

I must say I am enjoying the language and the subtle humor. I can see those massive statues crying when she arrives to ruin the solemnity of Oxford life.

[Everyman]

Sara wrote: "I must say I am enjoying the language and the subtle humor. I can see those massive statues crying when she arrives to ruin the solemnity of Oxford life. "

Yes, that was a nice touch.

[Abigail]

I was entertained by the description of Zuleika’s fascination with all the published photos of herself: “Thus was Zuleika enabled daily to be, as one might say, a spectator of her own wonderful life.” How like a contemporary selfie-obsessed person!

[Sara]

Abigail wrote: "I was entertained by the description of Zuleika’s fascination with all the published photos of herself: “Thus was Zuleika enabled daily to be, as one might say, a spectator of her own wonderful lif..."

I thought how well she would fit into modern-day Hollywood, the celebrity who buys her own PR.

[Everyman]

Sara wrote: "I thought how well she would fit into modern-day Hollywood, the celebrity who buys her own PR.
"

LOL! The 1911 equivalent of Kim Kardashian (sp? I know virtually nothing about her except that she is supposedly famous for being famous).

[Sara]

Everyman wrote: "Sara wrote: "I thought how well she would fit into modern-day Hollywood, the celebrity who buys her own PR.
"

LOL! The 1911 equivalent of Kim Kardashian (sp? I know virtually nothing about her ex..."
Exactly who came to mind

[Robin P, Moderator]

Sara wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Sara wrote: "I thought how well she would fit into modern-day Hollywood, the celebrity who buys her own PR.
"

LOL! The 1911 equivalent of Kim Kardashian (sp? I know virtually not..."

Sara wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Sara wrote: "I thought how well she would fit into modern-day Hollywood, the celebrity who buys her own PR.
"

LOL! The 1911 equivalent of Kim Kardashian (sp? I know virtually not..."

Yes, me too! She is famous for being famous and celebrity worship existed then as well.

[Everyman]

I loved that comment about the Duke: "The Duke had an intense horror of unmarried girls. All his vacations were spent in eluding them and their chaperons. That he should be confronted with one of them—with such an one of them!—in Oxford, seemed to him sheer violation of sanctuary."

This was a time, of course, when although there were women's colleges at Oxford, female students had not yet been accepted as full members of the University (that happened in 1920). So it was reasonable of the Duke to expect that, while debutantes were unavoidable during the London season, he could expect to avoid them at an Oxford men's college, particularly Balliol (Lord Peter Wimsey's alma mater, btw) which didn't admit women as students until 1979.

[Madge UK]

From an online essay by J D Elveson:

'Like Beerbohm’s Duke of Dorset, Oscar Wilde was a fastidious dandy, poet and a Victorian Socrates who was fluent in Latin and ancient Greek. Zuleika Dobson even makes references to the ‘Doric mode’, echoing the homosexual allusions in Wilde’s The Picture of Dorian Gray. Some of the Duke’s qualities, such as his punctuality, are inversions of Wilde’s traits.

During Wilde’s lifetime, Beerbohm exhibited grotesque images of the man he’d once called the ‘Divinity’, and Beerbohm continued to publish satirical pieces about Wilde after Wilde’s imprisonment and death. Oxford was where both Wilde and Beerbohm created their public personas, and Wilde returned there to dazzle the undergraduates, just as he himself had once been dazzled by John Ruskin, Walter Pater and Cardinal Newman.'

[Madge UK]

Oddly enough Beerbohm said 'I do not like to read a novel in an illustrated edition" . He found that illustrations interfered with the writer's attempt to portray--and the reader's ability to imagine--what the characters look like. Fortunately for his readers he then went on to illustrate ZD.

[Everyman]

MadgeUK wrote: "Oddly enough Beerbohm said 'I do not like to read a novel in an illustrated edition" . He found that illustrations interfered with the writer's attempt to portray--and the reader's ability to imagi..."

I agree with him a bit when it comes to illustrations not by the author or approved by the author. But I mentioned in another post today Arthur Ransome, and his books would have been much less wonderful without his own illustrations.

[Abigail]

Everyman, it’s as if you and I were separated at birth! We seem to have read all the same things as children. I still adore, and have copies of, all the Ransome sailing adventures. I loved that world as a child! (Sorry this is written a week late; I’ve been sick and am just crawling back to my desk.)

[Pip]

I'm late to the party again, having just been on holiday in a land without interweb. Also, I forgot my Kindle :-(

I hope to catch up asap and join in with the discussion.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Welcome back Pip and Abigail

[Everyman]

Abigail wrote: "Everyman, it’s as if you and I were separated at birth! "

I would feel privileged if that were true.

[Madge UK]

There must have been a lot of such separations as the books have always been bestsellers:) I was an avid reader of them too and often pretended my canoe was a row boat with a brown sail.

[Pip]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was rather put off at the beginning of the novel by the verbosity and flowery expression (though im ridiculously pleased with myself to be two up on Everyman - I knew the meaning of chevelure and gallimaufry ;-))

I think I'm getting into the swing of it though now, and think I'll enjoy the read.

A couple of things which have stood out for me so far:

- the arrival of the train into the station in chapter one. Great description, and what an entrance Zuleika makes! I love the phrase "Into the station it came blustering, with cloud and clangour".
- the beginning of chapter two, and the rapidity with which Zuleika and her possessions take over the Warden's "best" bedroom. And just in case anyone might doubt to whom those possessions belong, "ZD" encrusted and engraved on absolutely everything and "From the mantelpiece, photographs of Zuleika surveyed the room with a possessive air".