Zuleika Dobson - Ch 1 - 4

[Janice (JG)]

Pip wrote: "I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who was rather put off at the beginning of the novel by the verbosity and flowery expression (though im ridiculously pleased with myself to be two up on Everyma..."

Yes, I think one of the primary reasons I am enjoying this absurd tale -- despite the many in-jokes sourcing from place and time that I am not familiar with -- is because of Beerbohm's excellent & refreshing prose.

[Everyman]

Janice George (JG) wrote: "Yes, I think one of the primary reasons I am enjoying this absurd tale -- despite the many in-jokes sourcing from place and time that I am not familiar with -- is because of Beerbohm's excellent & refreshing prose. "

Ditto.

[Pip]

Everyman #41 : It's coincidental that you should mention Lord Peter Wimsey; while on holiday this Easter I read Gaudy Night and it was nice to come back, start Zuleika Dobson and not have to change cities in my reading mind!
In chapter four, the Duke's proposal also reminded me a little of Wimsey's obsession with Harriet Vane - though of course Vane and Dobson have very little in common indeed.

[Madge UK]

I've heard Lord Peter Wimsey in my mind all the way through reading this novel don'cha'know:)

[Everyman]

Pip wrote: "In chapter four, the Duke's proposal also reminded me a little of Wimsey's obsession with Harriet Vane - though of course Vane and Dobson have very little in common indeed. "

Sort of agree, and most definitely agree! They are both women. That's about the only thing they have in common.

[Bonnie]

Silver wrote: "...Here is some more information about the Biblical Zuleika..."

For those familiar with the Bible who’ve been saying to themselves “What? There’s no Zuleika in the Bible!” and didn’t have time to click through to the references…

Potiphar’s wife* - Genesis 39.

Remember Joseph ended up in Egypt (because he was his dad’s favorite, and dad gave him a fancy coat, and most of his brothers were jealous and beat him up and sold him off for 20 shekels to a passing caravan). Joseph got sold to Potiphar, who was one of Pharoah’s officials. Potiphar’s wife had a crush on Joseph, and kept trying to seduce him. When he wouldn’t cooperate she lied about him to Potiphar.

*Other People of the Book had her name as Zuleika although she was unnamed in Genesis.

[Frances, Moderator]

I remember the story well, just always knew the character as "Potiphar's Wife"-not sure I would name a child after her!

[Clara]

Interestingly I just came across a song by the Romantic composer Robert Schumann called "Das Lied der Suleika" ("The Song of Suleika"--which is probably the German version of the name). The beautiful song has text in part by Goethe, but I am not altogether certain where Suleika comes in, since neither the original poem's title nor words reference her. It appears, however, that more than one composition has been written with this verse as inspiration, and all carry reference to her.

For a link to a video of the song's performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=523_v...

For the lyrics with translation: http://www.recmusic.org/lieder/get_te...

Thanks for clarifying on the biblical Zuleika, Bonnie!

[Madge UK]

Thankyou for that link to Schuman's Suleika Clara. I love lieder. It is possible that Beerbohm had Goethe's lyric in mind as it is about love, and he wrote an essay about Goethe, who was another dandy and aesthete.

http://goethetc.blogspot.co.uk/2009/0...

The lyric in English is:

As with the most intimate pleasure,
o song I feel your sense;
lovingly you seem to say,
that I am always beside him;
That he thinks of me always,
and bestows the bliss of his love
evermore on the distant one
who has dedicated her life to him.
Yes, my heart is a mirror,
my friend, in which you see yourself; this breast,
where your seal you pressed, kiss after kiss.
Sweet poems, clear truth
bind me in sympathy --
purely embody the clarity of love
in the garb of poetry!

The Wikipedia link I gave earlier says that 'The most famous tale about Zuleika is told in a Jewish legend and in the Muslim Qur'an. According to the Jewish legend, Zuleika was mocked by other aristocratic Egyptian ladies, her circle of friends, for being infatuated with a Hebrew slave boy. Inviting her friends to her home, Zuleika gave them all apples and knives to slice them with. While they engaged in this task, Zuleika had Joseph walk through the room. Distracted by his handsomeness, all the ladies accidentally cut themselves with the knives, drawing blood. Zuleika then reminded her friends that she had to see Joseph every day. Following this incident, her contemporaries no longer mocked her.'

I have searched for likely allusions to this tale in ZD but found nothing significant except a passing reference to undergraduates 'surrounding themselves with photographs of pretty ladies... A phantom harem! '. I found no references to knives and cutting, one to paring an apple but numerous ones to mirrors, which may allude to Goethe's lyric.

(Edited.)

[Renee]

Great story, though. Thanks for sharing.

[Madge UK]

BTW Goethe's employer, who became a close friend, was the intellectual Grand Duke Karl Augustus. Reading his biography in Wikipedia made me wonder whether Beerbohm's Duke is modelled upon him:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_A...

'The wild, grotesque life led by the poet and the duke gave much offense. Their chief object seemed to be to violate all the sacred conventionalities of the German courts. They appeared in society in top-boots, cracked whips together in the market-place, plunged into the river Ilm at midnight, and conducted themselves altogether more like a couple of students on frolic than a pair of dignified personages.'
(From 'Goethe's Life at Weimar'.)

[Deborah, Moderator]

As usual Madge, your thorough research is appreciated

[Madge UK]

Thanks Deb, that one took a bit of time and arose out of Clara's useful link to Schumann. Sometimes if I have read the book, dislike it or get bored with it, I have fun searching for such titbits, which members can read or ignore according to their own predilections:)

[Clara]

Yes, thanks Madge!
I have found 2 more songs whose titles carry a reference to Zuleika ("Suleika I" and "Suleika II"), this time by Schubert. Link to performances, further info, and translated lyrics (of the first one): https://thedailysinger.wordpress.com/...
[Includes some interesting info on Goethe, his brief relationship with the lyric's authoress (Marianne von Willemer), and the reason for their writing about Zuleika...]

[Madge UK]

Brilliant Clara! It seems there might indeed be an allusion to Goethe's Suleika in the title. It would explain the very unusual name, which doesn't seem to have Biblical or Koranic references.

What do other folks think?

[Clara]

Here is a long text for avid researchers on Zuleika Dobson's name origin. It is very interesting, but I haven't gotten very far...
http://www.academia.edu/7313434/From_...

[Madge UK]

Wonderful Clara! It's like a detective story! I don't think our Zuleika gets to cut off a phallus as in the Iranian version! Love the pic of Joseph fleeing from Zuleika.

I think we need to to to Background and Resources for any further posts on this. Beerbohm certainly had lots of Zuleika-Suleikas-Zulaykha to choose from and several musical accompaniments too!