2024 Int Booker longlist: Undiscovered

[Hugh, Active moderator]

Undiscovered by Gabriela Wiener translated by Julia Sanches (HarperVia), Spanish/Peru

[Rachel]

I read this last month and enjoyed parts of it and appreciate the themes, but I did not think it was particularly compelling and felt it read more like essays. The exploration of her family history was most interesting to me, but the diversions to her current family issues and her polyamorous relationship felt like too many topics to explore in any depth in 180 pages. Just a bit all over the place and not one I was especially excited to see on the longlist.

[Paul]

it is rather fragmentary - that and sex seem to be what the judges are after. I don't think it is longlist material but I do think it is one of the better books on this longlist.

One of my pet moans is why English publishers change the names of books rather than just translate them. This one should be Huaco Portrait. The author was asked about this in an interview and her reply was:

I proposed to all my editors that the original title be kept—as a decolonizing agent it’s my job to defend the identity and original dignity of my book. Some listened, while others either half listened or not at all, following commercial criteria. Others, like HarperCollins, convinced me with the best reasoning. From what they tell me, the one who came up with Undiscovered was Juan Mila, my editor. And I liked it for the same reasons you do, because I saw an ambiguity in everything yet to be discovered but also in what cannot and will not be discovered, what is impossible to discover. At least in the translation in my head, although in English, it may not be so ambiguous.=

[Rose]

What's with all the autofiction on this list? This is my 3rd book from this list, and all three have been autofiction. Which is a genre I have not yet made peace with, or really even figured out how to read properly.

[Paul]

At least this one acknowledges the issue:

Had he lived in the twenty-first century, he might have been accused of the worst possible crime an author can be accused of today: writing autofiction.

[Rose]

Yes, the self-referential comment about autofiction was amusing.

I finished this today. It averages out to fine. I really enjoyed the legacy of colonialism parts, the story of Charles Wiener, her investigations about him and the boy Juan. I didn't care for the discussion of her personal life, sex life, father's infidelity, etc. - just not that interested. There's a reason I don't read much memoir.

[Cindy]

I read this one over the weekend and completely agree with Rose's assessment. I found the Charles Wiener aspects and the colonialism discussion quite interesting but the rest of it made me roll my eyes. I'm not sure it even merits three stars from me.

[Marina]

Agreed, too much memoir, self-aggrandisation, polyamory and infidelity - was that the point of the book, to show us that these things are inherited from generation to generation? The colonialism bit/Charles Weiner investigation was the most interesting part. Again, like the Kadare piece, it feels more like an extended essay than a nicely-structured book. All this tendency for fragmentary writing feels a bit lazy to me (sorry, am getting grumpy)

[Sonia]

Marina wrote: "Agreed, too much memoir, self-aggrandisation, polyamory and infidelity - was that the point of the book, to show us that these things are inherited from generation to generation? The colonialism bi..."

I think we all love a bit of grumpy.

[Robert]

I LOVED it!!!! ( hey there’s always the outlier)

[Paul]

Loved the book or loved the grumpy or both?

[Robert]

The book 😀

[Ness]

It was one of my favourite books of 2023😅

[Roman Clodia]

I thought the polyamory/personal strand was more interesting as it's another way of challenging and overturning dominant narratives: here heteronormativity and the patriarchal family, just as the other half tries to correct the asymmetries of colonialism.

But the latter is done in an uncomplicated, simplistic way. I agree, the short page count doesn't allow the story to breathe.

Solidly in the centre of my ranking.

[Marina]

But doesn't her rather self-satisfied account of her sexual conquests kind of play into the stereotypes about the insatiable eroticism of those with darker skin? I'm not entirely sure she subverts that notion, rather than being smug about it. (But maybe that's why memoirs tend to irritate me)

[Roman Clodia]

Marina wrote: "But doesn't her rather self-satisfied account of her sexual conquests kind of play into the stereotypes about the insatiable eroticism of those with darker skin? I'm not entirely sure she subverts ..."

You're right - and that's my issue with the book: it raises important issues but then treats them in an overly simplistic way without thinking through the implications of what the book is suggesting.

[Paul]

Agreed - the opening line is almost the best bit and it never quite lives up to that.

On this list "raises important issues but then treats them in an overly simplistic way" seems to be what the judges are looking for - except I think they'd replace "but" with "and" + "overly simplistic" with "accessible"

[Roman Clodia]

You could well be right as I've only read a handful of the long-list.

The one I wouldn't describe as wholly 'accessible' so far is the Kadare in terms of the ideological discussions and local politics - but I see that as a good thing, it made me feel like I had to step up!

[Paul]

Yes that one is an odd outlier in that sense

[Tommi]

Agreed on Kadare on that point.

[Gennie]

I am struggling forming a view of this book. It started well with engaging writing, original style and compelling and thought-provoking topics (colonization, heritage, polyamory). As the book progressed - about half of it - I found the story to become more of a venting exercise for the writer, and the multiple, repeated crude sexual references to be gratuitous. On the other hand, I wonder if I would had the same reaction 70 years ago with Simone De Beauvoir. And therefore, is Gabriela Wiener a futuristic, very original writer and thinker - a modern Simone de Beauvoir?

I haven’t made my mind yet. Perhaps I need to read the rest of the books first and let this book sit for a while.

[Alwynne]

Gennie wrote: "I am struggling forming a view of this book. It started well with engaging writing, original style and compelling and thought-provoking topics (colonization, heritage, polyamory). As the book progr..."

Sounds closer to the experience of reading Violette Leduc, thinking of La Bâtarde

[Roman Clodia]

It's some time since I read the Leduc but excellent point about the discussion of legitimacy and the quest for identity via sexual relationships. I'm not sure this has the intellectual heft of de Beauvoir?

That said, it's much warmer than de Beauvoir's chilly forensic gaze - having let this sit a while in my mind, I might have been a bit harsh with my 3* but 4* feels too high given the flaws.

[Sam]

Another marmite book it seems. I am among the readers who loved it. My comparison is not to other classic women authors but directly to You Dreamed of Empires by Álvaro Enrigue. Thematically, the two were quite similar and both employed satire. IMO, Wiener's work succeeded in being smart, funny, and entertaining while Enrigue's seemed forced, pedantic, dragging, and desperately seeking to be hip. The good points carried me past any flaws Undiscovered might have had. The autofictional part was secondary to the topical satire and far more readable than the utterly forgettable The Details, a book whose title only amused me because it was as as dull as the book and thus most fitting.

[Marina]

I too found The Details rather forgettable...

[Paul]

Sam wrote: "Enrigue's seemed forced, pedantic, dragging, and desperately seeking to be hip."

Agree with that - although doesn't make me necessarily appreciate this any more