Invader (Foreigner #2)[May 12, 2024]

[Yanique, Thread Master]

This is a Buddy Read for Invader by C.J. Cherryh starting on May 12, 2024.


Happy Reading

[Nirkatze]

Thank you!

Foreigner is a huge ongoing series, but is largely sorted into three book arcs. I figure we can request trilogy by trilogy, and adjust as necessary. If we go straight through, here's a schedule:

Arc 1:
1. Foreigner (Apr 12) [Link]
2. Invader (May 12)
3. Inheritor (Jun 12) [Link]

Arc 2:
4. Precursor (Jul 12) [link]
5. Defender (Aug 12) [link]
6. Explorer (Sep 12) [link]

7. Destroyer (Oct 12)
8. Pretender (Nov 12)
9. Deliverer (Dec 12)

4th Trilogy, 2025
10. Conspirator (Jan 12)
11. Deceiver (Feb 12)
12. Betrayer (Mar 12)

13. Intruder (Apr 12)
14. Protector (May 12)
15. Peacemaker (Jun 12)

16. Tracker (Jul 12)
17. Visitor (Aug 12)
18. Convergence (Sep 12)

19. Emergence (Nov 12)
20. Resurgence (Dec 12)
21. Divergence (Jan 12 2026)

22. Defiance (Feb 12 2026)
Probably have a book or two more by this time.

Audio: 1-19 are on Audible as Audible Only. Apparently the audiobook contract fell apart so the last few have yet to be converted, and the audio is in limbo.

Ebooks: no library/subscription copies available. Check your Libby!

Open Library has a lot of books in this series on ebook (but not all). It also has volunteer-made audiobooks.

https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL264...

[Choko]

I will be here this weekend:)

[Tammie]

I'll probably be here around the 20th.

[Nirkatze]

I'll be here when other folks get here. :)

[Tammie]

I'm in chapter 11 and enjoying it mostly, except I'm getting tired of the political rants. Not particularly surprising since I don't care for a lot of politics in books, but I somehow still like these. I feel bad for Bren. (view spoiler)[He didn't even get to rest after going through surgery. And this woman that's trying to undermine him is coming off very immature. Hanging up on him, refusing to listen to any reason whatsoever... She's such a child. I fully expect her to stomp her foot while they're meeting for lunch. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Starting now... expect(ed) alot of politics, given Bren's position...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I'm definitely feeling settled into this world, after the last chunk of the first book, and loving everything about this book... I enjoy political stuff, when it hits right...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

~40%: big things are happening... not entirely surprising, since I've skimmed some top-level spoilers for series progression... still interesting to see play out...

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 1... (view spoiler)[I'm just really struck by the scene, Bren in the hospital, sending messages to his loved ones, the people who should understand him... and no one even comes to see him. Not a single person. Owch.

As if he wasn't isolated enough among the Atevi.

I feel like this scene shows how Mosphera views Bren and the Atevi... like they'd like to forget that they live on a planet ruled by people not them. Head in the sand. And Bren is a reminder that they aren't masters of their own destinies.... Out of sight, out of mind.

No wonder Bren was relieved to see B&J. They would have come to see him if he was in hospital on Atevi lands. They wouldn't have left his side. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2 (view spoiler)[Wow, I'd forgotten just how abrasive the alternate Hanks is. What an asshole. And worse--an incompetent asshole. But again--this shows how Mosphera feels about Atevi in general... hostile grudges. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 3 (view spoiler)[The conversation between Tabini & Bren about "selling out" loyalties... it's interesting to think that Atevi literally can't do so--their man'chi is intrinsic and can't be bought. Their political maneuverings are about figuring out people's man'chi, or trying to somehow influence the network... I think (but don't remember) that changes in man'chi are very rare.

Oh yay! Our favorite crotchety grandma is coming back!

Bren not being ready to translate between Atevi and ships... Tabini shutting down his wiffle-waffling with a sharp "Be ready. Your hesitance is costing lives." Shows how Bren is still a fish out of water here--he's used to being a much smaller... fish. The coming of the ship has catapulted him into the middle of things he's just not ready for... Sink or swim. And Hanks is a wrench in the works. Mixing metaphors, eh. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

So far, this is feeling like a 5 star read for me, and the beginning of looking forward to these BRs each month with anticipation...

Someone on reddit said the book 11 cover is most indicative of the series:

(view spoiler)[



He subtitled it: Bren's tired of your shit... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

LOL Love that cover... shows how far Bren comes from the naive fish-out-of-water he is right now...

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 4 (view spoiler)[I love how Bren's all like "Can't I just go get some rest and come back tomorrow when I feel better?" and Tabini's like "No, suck it up and deal with it. This is life and death." Then Bren goes into the council... and it becomes clear that Tabini is playing politics with this move... by sending Bren in to do his job, injured and tired and sick, he's gaining more power behind Bren's version of the narrative v. Hanks & rumor, and also gaining respect for the Paidhi.

YAY 'SIDI LETTER!

And I love the... formality of the world. Coats. Letters. Tea. It's almost like Regency stories.

And Barb just broke up with Bren by text message. Shit move... Dear John letter. Jago's reaction is satisfying though. Where is her man'chi? And how does man'chi figure into romantic relationships?
(hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 6--(view spoiler)[I love Bren's long speech/analysis here... shows the beginning of him stepping into the shoes of his increased responsibilities... very firm conclusions, and taking a stance between Atevi and Mosphera... balance.

LOL "Disparate interests had just tried to kill Bren last week, but there was nothing personal in it. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 7 (view spoiler)[I just love the conversation with Ilsidi. It shows how much respect Bren has for her... and contrasted with Hanks's actions, and Bren's rant about the blindness of Mospherans... (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I definitely feel the Bren/Ilsidi connections…

[Tammie]

Nirkatze wrote: "Chapter 1..."

Yes that illustrated it really well. I felt so bad for him.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

He just needs to embrace his Atevi family… they may not understand love culturally, but they certainly have some sort of equivalent that is more than enough for Bren I think… (view spoiler)[the pizza party and questions scene felt like eager children… (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

LOL And then there was the comment, around the same time--that party was Chapter 10ish, I think? (view spoiler)[That speaking with children is part of the reason he still does the job... Salads again... (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 12 and still loving the story--and the cultural jenga. (view spoiler)[@Tabea's image of Hanks stomping her foot made me laugh... I'd believe it! That same conversation, where Hanks throws going native in Bren's face like an insult, reminded me a lot of the Teixcalaan books--only that series really emphasized how immersion in another culture can alienate you from your own, and in this series it focuses more on how alien the other culture is... while Mospheira as a whole comes off as childish like Hanks.

Even Jason from the Station (oh gods, it rhymes) comes across more mature and informed when his culture has no context for for communication. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 20 (view spoiler)[Facepalming. Dammit Hanks. Such an idiot. GRRRRRR. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Near the end... very close... ending about where I expected... the 1 month wait for book 3 seems painful right now... almost a bit of a book hangover too... I loved this so much... how do I go back to other things?...

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 22--(view spoiler)[I just love that Ilisidi has a group she calls her "young men." (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Timelord Iain wrote: "Near the end... very close... ending about where I expected... the 1 month wait for book 3 seems painful right now... almost a bit of a book hangover too... I loved this so much... how do I go back..."

You could go read Project Hail Mary if you haven't gone in on that BR yet. Get dual book hangovers.

I jumped from this to Short Victorious War, but I'm pretty sure you already finished that... ^_^

[Nirkatze]

Just finished, like I said... I'm not alone in getting shivers on the last line right? Definitely looking forward to the next one!! (view spoiler)[And Hanks still being so STUPID and shouting "don't trust him!!" GAH! Mospheirans are so blind!! Lots of good ranting around them though. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Nirkatze wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "Near the end... very close... ending about where I expected... the 1 month wait for book 3 seems painful right now... almost a bit of a book hangover too... I loved this so mu..."

I dropped Hail Mary in my overflow... doing Magic Rises, a re-read... can look forward to the climax combat sequence...

[Nirkatze]

Have you read Hail Mary before? I tried to be smart and go check on the page if it showed on your shelves, but I'm not that GR savvy. If you haven't read it--it is good cozy vibes. Definitely good for book hangover.

[Choko]

Through Ch. 5... I don't know what it is about this writing, but it makes me pay attention to every detail! It is different and kind of slow, but despite this, it has upped my levels of tension very high!!! There is something special about it...

I love the politics and the emphasis on how important language is to understanding another culture. That new chick obviously has no idea about the subtleties of the words and has some agenda that can be very damaging to the human relationships with the Atevi ...

[Choko]

Iain, I just read your comments and I feel the same - something about these books hits me just right!!!

[Tonari no Emily]

Well now I'm pretty excited to get into this!

[Choko]

Through Ch. 18... (view spoiler)[ For some reason, I don't blame Barb for doing what she did... I mean, she was wrong letting him know in a "Dear John" letter, but otherwise, he must have been distant, because he himself said he never really thought about her in the moments most people would think of their loved ones... She probably tried everything to get him to be with her in the moments they were together, but despite us knowing that he is very emotional from us being in his head, the lady who came to do his job, Diana, said he is very stoic and doesn't express anything outwardly... It can't be easy to be with someone like that...

Now someone kidnapped Diana and I am wondering if it's not other humans, since it was such a sloppy job...

I don't trust the folks from the ship. They seem to think they would get whatever they want on the cheap or even for free, just because they have the upper hand...

I loved the Atevi Einstein! And he figured the bend in time and space!!! (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Choko wrote: "Through Ch. 5... I don't know what it is about this writing, but it makes me pay attention to every detail! It is different and kind of slow, but despite this, it has upped my levels of tension ver..."

Pregnant calendars!!

[Choko]

Hahaha! Exactly!

I don't think Diana is competent in her knowledge of the Atevi, but I think everyone thinks they are doing the right thing, so I have a hard time disliking her... Let's see where it goes...

[Choko]

I absolutely love this series! I think many readers might find it slow and too mired in politics, but it keeps me riveted!!! The writing is perfection for the material and I am here for it! Can't wait to get to the next book!!!

[Tammie]

I finished this and I agree this was really good. It got better and better as it progressed. I particularly enjoyed chapters 18 and 19 but I was glued to the rest of it. After that point it got so good. I'm looking forward to finding out what happens next.

[Choko]

Yay!!! It is weird, because it keeps you on your toes throughout, but there isn't that much happening... It still keeps the tension up and you can't put it down!

[Tammie]

Choko wrote: "Yay!!! It is weird, because it keeps you on your toes throughout, but there isn't that much happening... It still keeps the tension up and you can't put it down!"

Yes! And it's weird for me because I never like the politics in the beginning but then I end up getting sucked into it. There's definitely something about Cherryh's writing style that clicks with me.

[Nirkatze]

Glad y'all are enjoying it! I'm really liking it in audio too--it's both thought provoking and soothing somehow...

[Barry]

Finished this last week.

I agree that this series is fast becoming one of my favourites. I couldn't quite understand why I decided not to continue after reading Foreigner the first time around. But, my God what a civilization Atevi is. A mash-up of traditionalist values combined with relatively modern amenities, and of course served up with murderous politics. What a planet.

Though, I'm really enjoying the series, I still wouldn't live in Atevi. I'd probably inadvertently insult someone like Ilsidi or Banichi or Jago and get killed within the first weeks...

Anyway, some thoughts regarding the book and series so far:

Bren (view spoiler)[
Somehow I can't shake my feeling that Bren is sometimes just too naive as a diplomat. While I do agree with his assessment and decision to support his Atevi family, very often I find Bren exasperating. It seems that he completely trusts Tabini as a person, often forgetting that Tabini is a masterful politican. Yes, of course, Tabini will milk Bren for all of his worth. The beginning of this book is a perfect example, when Tabini uses Bren's injuries for his (and Bren's too) political advantage.

Somehow, I feel that Bren would continue to stumble along all the political charades that Tabini set up for him. I just hope that Tabini truly cares for Bren's well-being. The guy does need to have some kind of Atevi family to ease his loneliness, and to stop him from thinking about Barb every other paragraph lol.
(hide spoiler)]

Hanks (view spoiler)[
Initially, I thought Hanks was kept in Shejidan because Tabini wanted to have her as a back-up plan politically. Either to physically threaten her to force some concessions from Mospheira, in return for a more compliant paidhi, or to use her as a political victim should the relationship with Mospheira deteriorate further.

I was a bit surprised that she staged her own kidnapping. Her faction must have a stronger support from some factions of the Atevi.

I'm really interested to know who Tabini's opposition really. So far we've only gotten some hints. But, I think there must be contact between that faction and Hanks' in Mospheira, in violation of the Treaty.

Though she appears to be the main antagonist of the series so far, but somehow I don't hate her too. She's a victim of her own narrow worldview.
(hide spoiler)]

Jago (view spoiler)[
Dammit Bren. Just get her already. (hide spoiler)]

Ilsidi (view spoiler)[
I wonder what Tabini dangles for her to get her to back him up so far. Surely she needs more than just "he's her grandson"? (hide spoiler)]

[Tammie]

Barry wrote: "Finished this last week.

I agree that this series is fast becoming one of my favourites. I couldn't quite understand why I decided not to continue after reading Foreigner the first time around. Bu..."

I agree with your thoughts on Bren.

[Nirkatze]

Barry wrote: "Finished this last week.

I agree that this series is fast becoming one of my favourites. I couldn't quite understand why I decided not to continue after reading Foreigner the first time around. Bu..."

Love your thoughts! Especially the ones re: Jago, made me laugh!

re: Bren--(view spoiler)[Totally agree that he's very naive--but I also think it's fairly believable... he's still pretty young, and his office was never this important until now... And this book did talk a bit about his selection process--he got chosen purely on the strength of his language skills, and it seems like he actually got ZERO diplomatic training--he's not supposed to make decisions, he's only supposed to be a mouthpiece. He's not an ambassador, he's a translator, and he's not supposed to be anything else. If Mospheira could use a machine in his place they would. Tabini has been slowly edging him into diplomat status, and actually using him as a tool, but there's a sense that the whole translation situation is too fragile for that kind of hard use... I imagine that most of his predecessors were more on Hanks's level of proficiency. But it's this very line that makes reading him so interesting. I do think he grows a lot during the series... though he keeps trying to force his own instincts into Atevi lines and coming up short. Feelings can't be translated, and that's frustrating. (hide spoiler)]

Ilsidi... (view spoiler)[her motives... she doesn't want the traditions and lives of the Atevi to be spoiled by the influx of new and technology--but she also isn't as backwards as some of the Opposition, in thinking that you can just shove your head in the sand and make it all go away. The way things turn out in the second (or third?) arc are pretty interesting, if I remember correctly...

Tabini sending her Bren in the first book... to show her that compromise was possible, that he was willing to work with her to both preserve tradition and bring in the new... and perhaps my human interpretation--to show her that Bren (and what he represents) isn't an enemy, he's a person, and an opportunity... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Tabini is obviously on the most progressive side of the Atevi. As Nirkadze said, I see Ilsidi as the middle of the road, and whoever the "opposition" is, must be the staunch conservatives who want nothing to do with the humans and their progress... I have a feeling we are headed for not just the space humans/Mospherians/Atevi conflict, but also maybe civil war between the Atevi... The tensions are too high to just stick with spicy politics... I personally can't wait!

[Nirkatze]

It's curious though--like it seems that the Atevi have conflicts all the time--but a full blown Civil War? And with no boundaries or borders? That sounds rather scary... how are the Mospheirans not terrified of that potential? They really have their heads buried in the sand...

[Choko]

Exactly! I am very interested in finding out...

[Barry]

Nirkatze wrote: "It's curious though--like it seems that the Atevi have conflicts all the time--but a full blown Civil War? And with no boundaries or borders? That sounds rather scary... how are the Mospheirans not..."

I assume some faction in Mospheira thinks a civil war would be good for them. If the arch-conservatives won in the civil war, they might leave the humans alone. The humans wouldn't have shared their technology with the Atevi. From what I understand, Atevi's military tech is still lower than human's.

The one major factor that they didn't consider is that sheer amount of Atevi. Sure, humans might have the advantage in terms of technology. But, can they hold on against the onslaught of tens of millions of Atevi against, what? at most a few millions humans?

[Nirkatze]

Good point about the arch-conservatives perhaps leaving the humans alone... (view spoiler)[I feel like that's overly naive though--which describes Mospheirans pretty well--they general population really doesn't understand Atevi at all!

Best case scenario maybe they'd help them leave the planet... worst case they'd just wipe them out... Military tech might be lower than the humans, but as Bren keeps pointing out--the Atevi won the war back when they had NO tech and Mospheirans had everything... a war with the Atevi now, when they're much more caught up, would not go well for anyone... Add the numbers--and also how Atevi man'chi is stronger than self-survival instinct... not only do they have the numbers, they have more individual viciousness... I just have to shake my head at the Mospheirans. Which I think becomes a continuing plot point going forward... (hide spoiler)]

[Tonari no Emily]

Nirkatze wrote: "It's curious though--like it seems that the Atevi have conflicts all the time--but a full blown Civil War? And with no boundaries or borders? That sounds rather scary... how are the Mospheirans not..."

Yikes, that's reminding me a bit too much of current politics in the US..

[Tonari no Emily]

I liked this a lot more than the first! Maybe I was just getting used to the world and politics.. The Atevi language based in mathematics is fascinating (view spoiler)[ and the general idea of trying to lead Atevi to a breakthrough given their understanding of math is definitely a smart move... If not quite leading them there as just an assumption they'll get there eventually because of their brains work. Love how this bit was explored. And how humans have gone so far because of our ability to just go with approximations while Atevi are stuck because its not exact. Reminds me of perfectionists who can't get something done because it won't ever be good enough (hi, it's me). (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Great point! I am like that in some aspects of my life too...

[Nirkatze]

I also love the math aspects of Atevi culture--(view spoiler)[and the things like how random people will just change the numbers (of like say, a flight plan, or train schedule) just because the numbers aren't "felicitous" and then end up killing people... I mean, I shouldn't like that, but it's such a great cultural note--how much of their cultural is based in belief in numbers, and how physics isn't just scientific advancement, it has the potential to cause complete cultural breakdown... (hide spoiler)]