Welcome to The Midnight Bell (a virtual pub and general discussion thread) (2024)

[Roman Clodia]

What a fascinating project though, Mantel, Austen and the Bennets! Such a loss.

[Susan]

I know. What a loss. Beyond Black remains my favourite Mantel though.

[Susan]

SueLucie wrote: "Have I missed them or are there threads set up for the Christie books we are reading this month? I am just starting The Murder of Roger Ackroyd - I can’t believe I don’t recognise the story, I must..."

I have commented on both of the Christie threads to push them to the top of the pile :)

[Blaine]

I expect to start them in 7-10 days. I seem to be behind everyone this month! Probably I'm reading them in the wrong order.

[Susan]

I'm so behind I have had to abandon reading some books, don't worry, Ben. I am just concentrating on the ones I really want to read.

[Roman Clodia]

Haha, chill, everyone - this is fun... not homework ;))

[Blaine]

Oh, I'm chilled. I have my extensions in hand. Time to party.

Very good news on The Mirror and The Light. The first two parts were wonderful, and I will see Mark Rylance in anything, so twice the motivation!

[Susan]

Yes, that's why I have dropped some group reads. If it stops being fun and feels like homework, then it spoils the enjoyment. I am always so tempted though because I know that I will enjoy what's suggested. I nearly dropped The History Man and it's been one of the novels I most enjoyed this year. Just too many great nominations in this group.

[Alwynne]

I'm an outlier where Mantel's concerned so won't be watching the new adaptation but I was pleased to see that Iplayer has the second season of 'Colin from Accounts' - Nigey made me do it!

[Nigeyb]

Did I? Thank me later


Yes, looking forward to that one too Alwynne

[Alwynne]

Nigeyb wrote: "Did I? Thank me later


Yes, looking forward to that one too Alwynne"

I was sure it was you who recommended Colin as a good watch...

[Nigeyb]

I certainly think it's a lot of fun and quite likely did indeed recommend it. I'm hoping the quality is maintained in the second series 🤞🏻

[Kathleen]

Looks like some bad news for Internet Archive: https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/4/242...

[Blaine]

Very disappointing. The practical effect of the appellate court decision isn't entirely clear to me from reading the decision, but it seems to maintain the distinction between books available as ebooks and those only available in print copies, which has operated since the trial court ruling. So hopefully books that are not sold as ebooks will continue to be lawfully available from the Internet Archive and the Open Library.

I'll keep an eye out for any clarifications.

[Blaine]

The Authors Alliance Substack seems to read the decision the same way I do. See this quote from their analysis.

For the most part, the Court focused its analysis on the facts of the case, which was really about IA lending digitized copies of books that were already available in ebook form and licensable from the publishers. The legal analysis in several places turned on this fact, which we think leaves room to make fair use arguments regarding programs to digitize and make available other books, such as print books for which there is no licensed ebook available, out-of-print books, or orphan works. CDL [Controlled Digital Lending] will remain an important framework, especially considering the lack of an existing digital first-sale doctrine. 

The "first sale doctrine" is what gives a person who buys a physical book the right to resell it or lend it, but not to copy it. The doctrine does not apply to ebooks, which, like software, are governed by the terms of the license under which they are sold, which can be much more restrictive.

[Neer]

Ben wrote: "Very disappointing. The practical effect of the appellate court decision isn't entirely clear to me from reading the decision, but it seems to maintain the distinction between books available as eb..."

Ben plz let us know as things become clearer. This is sad news.

[Daniela]

I often use Internet Archive to read old books (first half of the last century) that are no longer available and do not exist as ebooks. I like that they are photos of old library books, sometimes even with lists with dates and names of previous readers.

[Stephen]

Daniela wrote: "I often use Internet Archive to read old books (first half of the last century) that are no longer available and do not exist as ebooks. I like that they are photos of old library books, sometimes ..."

I like that too Daniela.

[Alwynne]

Nigeyb wrote: "I certainly think it's a lot of fun and quite likely did indeed recommend it. I'm hoping the quality is maintained in the second series 🤞🏻"

Good so far, also discovered iplayer has an earlier series featuring the two stars called 'No Activity' which might be worth checking out.

[Blaine]

I discovered this web page today, Neglected Books, which will doubtless appeal to many of us. https://neglectedbooks.com/

In particular I plan to explore the list of gems on the Internet Archive. https://neglectedbooks.com/?cat=15

I found this thanks to a blog entry on the Internet Library. https://blog.archive.org/2024/09/16/v...

[Susan]

Thanks for posting, Ben.

[Sonia]

Ben wrote: "I discovered this web page today, Neglected Books, which will doubtless appeal to many of us. https://neglectedbooks.com/

In particular I plan to explore the list of gems on the Internet Archive. ..."

Thank you for posting, will look through.

[Alwynne]

Ben wrote: "I discovered this web page today, Neglected Books, which will doubtless appeal to many of us. https://neglectedbooks.com/

In particular I plan to explore the list of gems on the Internet Archive. ..."

Sounds like a fascinating project Ben. Look forward to hearing how you get on.

[Nigeyb]

Keep us posted Ben 👏🏻

[Blaine]

Well, to be honest it won't really rise to the level of a project. More of an exploratory survey. But I do like the possibility of finding a gem or two and I will certainly report back if I do!

[Susan_MG]

I fell into this interesting site and found it to be quite informative. The wafer thin books intrigue me also. I’m not sure finding these books will be easy but being aware of the authors and their work could lead some book scavenging readers to finding a treasure. Thank you for sharing the site.

[G]

I listen to quite a few audiobooks, and generally enjoy the experience. There are a few types of books that do not work well for me in this format, but almost always the productions fall into the satisfactory to truly excellent end of the spectrum.

Right now, though, I am having a run of bad luck. I've listened to two that were truly dreadful. I suspect two were read by the same individual, thoughl since Hoopla often does not include the narrator in its information, and one of those did not name the reader in the credits (probably to protect her identity, since she could not correctly pronounce an astonishing range of ordinary English vocabulary, and ever more annoyingly, could not decide how she wanted to mispronounce several words and at least one name). Both of those books seem to have been produced by companies I'd never heard of, and since the books do not fall within the mainstream of the audiobook market, one can easily imagine a small budget and possibly limited experience playing a role in the dreadful production.

Now, however, I am listening to a much more mainstream title, Love in a Cold Climate produced by Tantor Audio, which is certainly not a bit player. And I am finding this reading dreadful, because the narrator has chosen to read all the narrative passages sotto voce and in a rush, as if we were sitting with her on her bed and we didn't want Mummy in next room to overhear us. But she reads the dialogue at full voice in a speed that seems suited to the characters. Do I give up on all the details that make the story, or do I give up on preserving my hearing?

I am ready to break this run of dismal with some truly excellent audio performances, so I have come here to ask for suggestions.

[Barbara]

i dont know if you enjoy Agatha Christie books, but if you do, the audio books that Hugh Fraser narrates are excellent. The different voices he uses are very effective and his pronunciation is perfect.

[Alwynne]

G wrote: "I listen to quite a few audiobooks, and generally enjoy the experience. There are a few types of books that do not work well for me in this format, but almost always the productions fall into the s..."

I can't recommend any audio books, only have BBC recordings of things like Just William: The BBC Radio Collected Stories 1 and adaptations of Sayers Lord Peter Wimsey: BBC Radio Drama Collection, Volume 1 But would say that the Mitford is one where it's important to follow line by line - partly because there are some great one-liners, turns of phrase and so on. But also as there are small clues, references that are important to the story. But I'm a huge fan.

[Barbara]

Thanks for the neglected books site, Ben. I see La Douleur is on the list. It's been sitting unread on my shelves for almost 40 years. Guess it's time to get to it!

[Nigeyb]

Audible are pretty reliable in my experience G, narrator-wise at least


The narration is a standard part of their listener ratings process too

[Susan]

There are some bad narrators though, Nigeyb. I was SO excited when Nicholas Blake were on Audible but the reader, Kris Dyer was truly dreadful! He.... paused.... a ..... lot. They were unlistenable and I have noticed they have been taken off now. He's narrated lots of other books too, so you are all warned!

Also, Gordon Griffin narrated the Falco books amongst others. He is not particularly bad, but he just sounds old. Admittedly not his fault, but it doesn't work with the character. I tend to avoid him too, I must admit.

Hugh Fraser is brilliant though - his Poirot is amazing and he can do any voice. Most Audible narrators are pretty good, which means a bad one really stands out.

[Roman Clodia]

Oh yes, Gordon Griffin is a narrator I avoid too - he did the first of a historical series I love and was awful as all the characters are young and he made them sound like octogenarians! They replaced him for the rest of the series.

Also remember Ulli something, Susan, who narrated Georgette Heyer? I had to speed her up to about 1.5x and she mispronounces common words and names.

One of my favorites is Kobna Holden-Smith: he's got a gorgeous voice and just the right level of expression for me: emotive without over-reacting.

And, of course, Juliet Stevenson who is just perfect in everything she reads.

[Susan]

Oh, yes, the Georgette Heyer books.

I love Sean Barrett, who reads the Mick Herron books. Rory Kinnear is wonderful reading the Anthony Horowitz series.

[Sue]

I agree about Juliet Stevenson. I’ve listened to her do some Jane Austen amongst other things and she is a pleasure to listen to. I have her version of Middlemarch but have never been able to face the thought of 35 hours of it! It was one of those books I thought I ‘ought’ to read because it’s a classic. Maybe one day...

I can recommend Anton Lesser reading The Riddle of The Sands. It doesn’t even sound as though he’s narrating a book at all - it’s more like he’s in your living room chatting excitedly about an adventure he had last week. This despite the fact that there is some stodgy stuff about sailing and navigation, and the whole plot progresses quite slowly.

On the other hand. Eleanor Bron is depressing to listen to when reading The Moneypenny Diaries, sounding as though she just barely has the energy to croak into the microphone, so I just stick to my paper copies.

I have several of Anthony Trollope’s books narrated by Timothy West and he’s wonderful. Also Richard Armitage is great - a lovely rich voice.

A good narrator can make or break an audiobook can’t it. I’m currently struggling to listen to Agatha Christie’s autobiography because Judith Boyd’s voice grates on my nerves.

Having an author narrate their own book seems quite common now, but it can be very hit and miss. I can understand that it adds an authentic element when someone reads their own words, but not all authors make good narrators by any means.

[Roman Clodia]

Oh, Middlemarch is brilliant, not earnest and worthy at all. If you love Austen and Trollope, Eliot is somehow in the middle of them both.

Someone else I struggle with is Joan Hickson reading the Miss Marple books - she's my definitive Jane on TV but her voice is so grating as the audio narrator.

[Susan]

I totally agree about authors not reading their own novels! Non-fiction is different - Dominick Sandbrook, Ben Macintyre, David Hepworth are all great.

[Alwynne]

I agree re: Stevenson, a friend played something she was narrating on a car journey once and was really good. Seems the conclusion is that professional, name actors are the most identifiably reliable. The non-fiction makes sense, bit like reading an extended lecture and those get recorded anyway so not much of a stretch for the authors.

[Susan]

I have started listening to The Heat of the Day on Audible, read absolutely terribly by Nadia Albina. Whoever she is, she's doing a very poor job. Another one to avoid at all costs.

[Roman Clodia]

Susan wrote: "I have started listening to The Heat of the Day on Audible, read absolutely terribly by Nadia Albina. Whoever she is, she's doing a very poor job. Another one to avoid at all costs."

What a shame! I listened to the audio sample on Amazon which I assume is her and yes, didn't like it at all.

[Susan]

I have downloaded the kindle version and abandoned Audible.

[Blaine]

I mostly prefer reading to listening, although I did enjoy listening to some of the chapters of Ulysses on the Radio Ireland performance, just to hear the musicality of Joyce's language and to interject some Irishness into the way I experienced the work.

When listening to Bowen on Audible does the performance let you appreciate the complexity in the syntax? I find with some of her sentences I have to read them multiple times before I feel I get them!

[Susan]

All the Bowen novels on Audible have different narrators, so I am unsure about the others, Ben.

[Sue]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Oh, Middlemarch is brilliant, not earnest and worthy at all. If you love Austen and Trollope, Eliot is somehow in the middle of them both. ..."

Thanks for this. I suppose I had thought it would be a slog to get through, but perhaps I will give it a go after all.

Someone else I struggle with is Joan Hickson reading the Miss Marple books - she's my definitive Jane on TV but her voice is so grating as the audio narrator. ..."

Completely agree on this - my favourite TV Marple but dreadful narrator!

[Sue]

Susan wrote: "I totally agree about authors not reading their own novels! Non-fiction is different - Dominick Sandbrook, Ben Macintyre, David Hepworth are all great."

I see that Ben Macintyre’s The Siege: A Six-Day Hostage Crisis and the Daring Special-Forces Operation That Shocked the World is the BBC Book of the Week at the moment. My husband’s listening to it - he says it’s very good, although he doesn’t know if it’s narrated by the author.

[G]

Sue wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Oh, Middlemarch is brilliant, not earnest and worthy at all. If you love Austen and Trollope, Eliot is somehow in the middle of them both. ..."

Thanks for this. I suppose I ha..."

I personally find audiobooks that are longer than around 15 hours a slog, but I heartily endorse RC's encouragement to read it, whether in audio or in (e-)print. When I read the book the first time it took a surprisingly long time for me to realize why it was called "Middlemarch" and not "Dorothy", but I loved everything about the book except the plight that society puts intellectually gifted women into, and Eliot is merely depicting reality there, so I cannot fault her for that problem.

[G]

Thank you all for your recommendations on audio book narrators.

Sue said A good narrator can make or break an audiobook can’t it Absolutely! One of my early audio book experiences was The Turning of the Screw read by Davinia Porter. The reading was so tedious and slow that I gave up, returned the book to the library, and asked the reference librarian to find me a different recording, read by anybody else, I didn't care. Once I got hold of another edition, I went back to the beginning, and was astonished to discover I had quit something like 4 print pages from the end--but the reading was so excruciating I just could not bear another sentence. I only persisted because I'd never read it, despite its being required reading for nearly every other American of my generation, and I thought I should stop up this gap in my education.

I've noticed that Wanda McCaddon (aka Nadia May) and Simon Vance often narrate the classic titles I am drawn to. I enjoy both of them, but have listened to so many from each of them that I sometimes mentally import sentences and characters I heard in that voice 3 months ago into what I am listening to now. One time, for instance, the late 13th century mystery I was listening to suddenly sprouted some Jane Austen characters.

I cannot afford to subscribe to Audible. Fortunately, my library offers two different digital platforms that have extensive audiobook collections. They are fairly good with classics and current popular fiction, but not as good with translation or literary fiction, nor with some of the lesser known early to mid-20th century writers.

[Roman Clodia]

Ben wrote: "I mostly prefer reading to listening

I love audiobooks of light reading like Agatha Christie, Anthony Horowitz or classics I know like Austen, Dickens, Eliot (and delighted if I've inspired you, Sue!), the Brontes but I struggle with writers where close attention matters: Woolf, Henry James and, yes, Bowen.

But audio is so perfect for hands-free commuting or when doing boring housework or similar. I'd never exercise if not for audiobooks!

G., I used to subscribe to Audible but my library really upped their audio game during lockdown and I have a large selection now for free so have my membership on hold and spend the money on books instead.

[Roman Clodia]

Ps. I often prefer non-fiction in audio - I can get bored reading it and start skimming!

[Roman Clodia]

G wrote: "One time, for instance, the late 13th century mystery I was listening to suddenly sprouted some Jane Austen characters."

Haha, totally agree with this, voices can become so associated with characters that it's disorienting when they turn up somewhere else.