Do Recent In Death Books Measure Up?

[Sandra]

A few have expressed an interest in discussing the quality or lack thereof of the last several In Death books. We'll open this discussion as a Build Your Case under the following conditions:

1) You agree to state your opinion in a respectful, professional manner.
2) You agree to direct your comments toward critiquing the books, not author. In other words, author bashing will NOT be tolerated.
3) You respect the opinions of others even when they disagree with you.
4) Bullying others because of a difference of opinion (or any other reason) will NOT be tolerated.

Any violation of the above conditions will result in the removal of your comments.

Some have stated, in their opinion, the last several In Death books are not measuring up to the quality of earlier books. Obviously, there are many others who love the books and believe they're as strong or stronger than ever.

Are recent books measuring up to the high standards set by earlier books in the In Death series? Express your opinion and state the reasons why you feel as you do. In other words, Build Your Case!

[Elizabeth]

I'm debating how to answer this question. On the one hand, I do feel like the earlier books were better in a lot of ways, they felt more exciting, more original. But on the other hand, I wonder if it's just because everything was new. In the later/more recent books, there's no need to introduce the characters or the situation - we as the readers are expected to already know everyone established in Eve's world, and what is going on that carries over from book to book. I like that, knowing everyone, having continuing stories! I wouldn't want it any other way.

However it does feel like the more recent books have become more "copy and paste" (for lack of a better phrase). Is the same formula over and over again a good thing, or does it lead to lower standards?

One example I thought of was re-reading "Shadows In Death" just recently - did anyone else think that storyline felt a little forced? All of a sudden there's this major character from Roarke's past that we have never heard of before, that he has never mentioned? So while I always like getting any part of any character's history, this one just didn't feel completely authentic to me. But maybe I'm being overly critical. :-)

[Sandra]

You make some good points, Elizabeth. I think it's normal for earlier books in a long series to feel "fresher", for lack of a better word, maybe more exciting in their newness, and I agree in that aspect. On the other hand, there's a comfort in the familiarity that comes from getting to know characters over time, especially from an author like Robb who develops her characters and allows them to grow over time, for their lives to evolve right in our living rooms. It's also understandable that a certain "formula" emerges over time - if it ain't broke, don't fix it - kind of mentality. While I see the formula in these books, I never get tired of them. I'm usually amazed that Robb keeps things intriguing enough, exciting enough, that I always come back for more. That's just my 2 cents! lol

[Sharon]

I wasn't surprised we learned about someone new from Roarke's past. He doesn't share a lot of the "dark" side of his life. If you look at what we know, he has a lot that he doesn't share. I get why he hasn't shared with Eve. He doesn't want her to worry about the things he's done. Also, he often mentions that his childhood past doesn't weigh on his mind like hers. I can see a kid who idolized his corrupt dad, being in his past.

I love everything I have learned about Roarke; he is still a bit of a mystery after all this time.

Regarding a formula, I agree with Sandra. After this long a formula will appear. However, I feel like the mystery is always fresh or a different side of a previous book.

[Jonetta]

The beginning of the series was the start of a radical change in Eve’s solitary life. We were seriously hooked from book to book as her relationship with Roarke took form and all these people started coming into her life. She experienced a lot of growth, good and bad, in those initial 30 books and her new relationships started taking shape and becoming more relevant. The series couldn’t help but be unique.

Now Eve and Roarke have settled into their marriage, become comfortable in their own skin and as a couple. Around book #50 I felt it was becoming a little formulaic but soon I noticed a change. The change was in Eve. Her edges were not quite as sharp, more rounded and she started developing “friend rules” to go along with those “marriage rules.”

The changes are subtle but pretty big for her. In any police procedural, the investigations will take on a formulaic pattern. I expect that but in this series, I look for more. In the last two books, Eve’s investigation radically changed. She wouldn’t have solved them otherwise. Both of those books seem to be a pivoting point and the series seems to have shifted in a new direction. Eve’s more empathetic, no longer worrying about objectivity and balance when it involves people she knows.

Yes, there was a point when the stories lacked that “oomph” of the earlier ones. But lately? Mojo seems to be back, at least for me. Because it was the character development that has always hooked me.

[Sharon]

Jonetta, do you think it became formulamatic around Golden? I missed that, but I haven't listened to that book lately. I guess I am looking for the big Eve and Roarke moments that sidetracked me from seeing a formula. Some authors are so in your face with their copy-and-paste stories that In Death falls way short--In my mind anyway.

Eve is a little softer these days. I agree with you on that point. I love the "friends rules," and her openness to her friends' needs.

[Jonetta]

Sharon, it was around #50 that it moved into a higher gear for me. It was somewhere in the 40’s where I felt the story would drag or be repetitive. I’ve loved all of them since.

[Elizabeth]

This is so cool! I love all these discussions. It's funny, but when Jonetta pointed out they are police procedurals it kind of took me by surprise. I know they are, obviously, but I rarely think of them that way because of how great a job Robb does with all aspects of the story, characters, investigations, etc. (Which is exactly what Sandra said too!) So I forget that formula is obviously going to be a part of it.

[Jonetta]

Thanks for starting us off, Elizabeth!

Sometimes when Eve is in the beginning of the assembling of clues and theories, my head starts to hurt. It’s when she starts getting close that I perk up. That’s why I need the other stuff to distract.

I know Interview may be formulaic but I love it.

[TinaNoir]

I agree with a lot of what has already been said.

Yes, I feel that more recent books have been a little lackluster.

But also yes it has a lot to do with familiarity. That simply can't be prevented. And it is human nature to both want familiarity and to be a little impatient with it. Also the series has always had peaks and valleys, with installments that just were bad or meh but usually will rebound with outstanding or really good ones. I think for me, at least, there was a patch where the valley lasted longer than usual.

And beyond just being comfortable and familiar with a group of characters and their rhythms and relationships, I think for me some of the feeling of lackluster has to do with repetition.

If I go back and look at my reviews of the books in the series, and especially my more critical ones of the more recent batch, the one thing they all seem to have in common in the minus column is the feeling that rather than simply giving us familiar characters, we are getting repetitive character actions.

I went and looked at one of my '3-star' kinda 'eh' reviews. It was for one that I characterized as fine but didn't stand out of the pack. of a recent work where even the case-of-the-week (so to speak) didn't pull me in, I wrote that it felt like the characters filled their allotted checklist -- McNabb pranced, Peabody clomped, Eve had at least 3 idioms she did not know, Eve argued with and bribed Dickie. etc. That they felt more like a collections of character tics than our familiars just being themselves. I think the repetitive use of the language describing some of them is what sometimes makes it feel like a 'phone in' and it is more noticeable if you aren't feeling the main case.

I will say one of my favorite of her more recent books was one that gave me a feeling of the earlier books where she tended play with format from book to book. That was Forgotten in Death #53. This is the one where we had two cases that were not connected, a long ago mystery to solve, interesting possible suspects and some charismatic walk-on characters, and something different in that Roarke and Feeney solved yet a third case on their own on the side.

[Jonetta]

You make some compelling points, Tina, as those examples irritate me, too. Perhaps there’s room for growth there, too. But then I’m reminded that there’s only one month of elapsed time between books. The series started in late 2058. It’s now the summer of 2061…only three years!

[ElectricOutcast]

It's mostly been a hit or miss in my case, but at least things haven't gotten so bad that I entertained the notion of quitting the series yet, unlike an unrelated series I was catching up with via Wikis and how an event pissed me off so bad that I ended up disowning the series.

In terms of my favorite volume coming out in recent years, Faithless in Death to me stands out. That book was exactly what Conspiracy should've been in the first place, a murder case that dug into something much deeper than normal. Plus that case didn't drive another wedge to a repaired relationship between Eve and her boys. If anything, I'm more happy that they've worked under a tighter unity than ever before.

Now in terms of new installment that I didn't like, I just couldn't get past the flashback scenes or the scenes between the killer and victims. They were unnecessary and slowed the story down.

That being said, I think we're missing out on a volume that touches on the edges of Cyberpunk, like Purity and Fantasy touched on years before. Just something that I've been noticing in the last few volumes.

[TinaNoir]

ElectricOutcast wrote: "That being said, I think we're missing out on a volume that touches on the edges of Cyberpunk, like Purity and Fantasy touched on years before. Just something that I've been noticing in the last few volumes."

This is a great point. It would be nice to see more crime of the future-tech/ Cyber wave. The closest we've seen was were the two you mention and Origin in Death. Definitely would be a checkbox to put on an In Death Wish List.

I also really enjoyed Faithless. For Conspiracy, I admit I don't remember that case so much except selling organs on the black market.? But for me there certain installments that I feel are super critical in the chronology and are required reading because they act as pivotal character or event moments for Eve and her crew.

This kinda ties in with this subject because quite a few of the early books do this. Where we first meet an important character or an event happens that radiates forward throughout the series (Origin In Death, for instance, is a huge one). Whereas we aren't getting a lot of what I call pivotal character moments or events in these later books.

I count Conspiracy among this crop because it is where we meet Trueheart and Louise. It is the first one where we see adult Eve being really vulnerable and afraid for herself. It also, IIRC, the first real peek we get that Summerset maybe cared for Eve on her own merits and not just because of how much Roarke loves her.

[ElectricOutcast]

Tina wrote: "ElectricOutcast wrote: "That being said, I think we're missing out on a volume that touches on the edges of Cyberpunk, like Purity and Fantasy touched on years before. Just something that I've been..."

Thing is, I don't count Conspiracy as a favorite volume of mine like others do and my opinions about it have not exactly made me popular with the fanbase. Whereas with Faithless, it had everything that made this volume good. A murder case that led to the protagonists looking at the dark corner of humanity. (Being vague because I don't want the new fans to be spoiled.)