Seeking an editor

[[deleted user]]

I originally posted this in the sci-fi/fantasy group:

"Well, after a month or two, having finally received some feedback and talking to people, I am faced with a few difficult choices to make.

I have decided to take the advice I received most recently and subject my "child", Spirit + Stone, to some professional editing. But this brings with it some questions.

First of all, should I take the current edition offline pending such editing? This is the most difficult choice for me to make because whilst I do not want it "gone", I think I do not want to see people buying it and being turned off by the unedited version, so to speak. I am not sure I am phrasing that part correctly.

Another problem is that I am very poor. When you add up my disability pension and a "generous" "help" from people I will not nominate here, I barely have more than a thousand dollars every two weeks. The rent man gets 610 out of that, so yeah...

Does anyone know of a good editor who might take pity on me? *chortle* "

I think it says everything I need to say, except that the work in question is 113,629 words according to Mickeysoft Word.

[P.N.]

I would suggest having a volunteer proof it for you before shelling out cash for an editor.

I would also suggest you consider getting feedback from volunteer beta readers at Absolute Write. It's free to join and so is the feedback.

They have a Share Your Work forum where you may post excerpts for honest (non troll) feedback from other writers.

The only catch is you have to have 50 posts of your own on AW to participate. They encourage members of the community to participate in a positive way. The fastest way to rack up posts is to offer feedback to others in the forum.

I've found that when posting/reading feedback for others I get insight to my own works and go back to the keyboard to tweak things.

They also have beta-reader swap (you read my book I'll read yours) so another SF writer sees the whole work, not just 5-10 pages.

Shopping for an editor is like finding the right partner for a marathon dance. You both have to be comfortable with each other.

A good editor is going to charge for the work and an unqualified editor working cheap is a waste of your limited funds. I'm very qualified and rock bottom cheap, but I don't recommend you seek an editor just yet.

Get more feedback, especially about your first 5 pages. Those are the ones that sell your book to a reader. They have to introduce the protag, the conflict, and start at an interesting spot in the action to keep the reader hooked. NOT easy! ;)

Here's the link to the AW forums:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/i...

It's like having 7K friends watching your back.

An alternative to check into is to find an editor who is open to taking small monthly payments. That's asking for a lot of trust on both sides, though. I've been considering that, but am not quite ready to make that commitment.

The best thing is to NOT be in a hurry to publish. (I'm figuring you're indie and not going for commercial publication since they do the editing for you if they accept your book.) It's hard on you, but better for the (pocket) book!

[Longhare]

Dean, I second P.N.'s advice. I'm not familiar with absolutewrite forums, but beta readers can be an inexpensive way to knock some of the kinks out of your book. A couple of other things you can do: 1) run spell check--I never recommend relying on spell checkers because they are faulty in all kinds of ways, but they will catch an awful lot of spelling errors; and 2) bone up on your grammar and punctuation--it will make your writing stronger and leave you less open to criticism from readers.

Which goes to your other question. My advice is, don't leave a book up if you know it needs basic editing. You may shell out for a fine edit and upload a squeaky clean book only to receive a nasty review by a reader who downloaded the first version.

[P.N.]

Props to Longhare. Thank you and seconded on the checks. The devil is always in the details! ;-)

Absolute Write is a safe, troll-free, spam free place for writers at all levels of the craft, all genres. Many of the moderators are professional writers and editors in the industry who volunteer their time, paying it forward. I'm there under a pseudonym with the permission of the mods. That way I'm paying it forward, not pimping my books.

There is a forum for help in finding a good freelance editor, but if you can get free feedback, go for it!

Remember that a legit, qualified editor will name the books and writers they've edited. Do NOT trust any editor who claims they have to be "discreet" about clients. That's horse hockey. You want someone with a visible track record.

Also beware of anyone who trots out "has a degree in English" which is fine if you want an essay on Jane Austen, but a disaster if you're after a content edit. A degree is no substitute for actual publishing experience. If they're shy about posting their resume, run away.

There are a LOT of scammers out there, which is another reason to join AW -- they have a Background Check forum that's saved many a writer from greedy sharks in the pool!

[♥Booklish Reviews♥]

How many words?
Are you looking for plot development, character development, flow, ect?
I am looking for a book to edit, free of charge.

[[deleted user]]

Shredded: 113,629 words. That is according to Mac:Word 2011, so it might be slightly more or less. The way Word has counted hyphenated words has always been a bit funny to my view.

All others, thank you for your responses, I will be taking all of it on board. :)

[George]

Nothing beats a professional editor. It is well worth the money for many reasons. Ask my clients or any published author.
www.georgeverongos.com

[[deleted user]]

I do not dispute that at all, George. Professionalism is what makes our world truly work instead of merely go around, and we see so little of it these days in all sectors.

As I said in the original post, however, I am very poor, so unless there is a publisher out there willing to take a chance on me, I have to pinch pennies. I will still check out your site in due course.

[[deleted user]]

*makes note on text editor*

Again, thanks one and all. This is why I came to this site to begin with. Chris, I promise I will get around to checking out what you have to offer ASAP.

[P.N.]

Dean,

if your goal is professional publication and not going indie to put your book up on Kindle after an edit, then start shopping the first 30 pages and outline to agents and publishers who sell that sort of book.

DO NOT hire an editor, you need beta readers for feedback. Publishers do their own edit on a book.

I didn't hire an editor when I sold my first book in 1988, but I got feedback from as many people as possible. I used what they told me and eventually landed a 6-book contract with Ace Science Fiction. I did not hire an editor to look it over first.

If anyone's given you the idea that you need a pristine edited book to send out, then they're trying to sell you something or they don't know what they're talking about.

If a book is ready to sell, it will sell. If it is not, then no amount of editing will make that happen.

SAVE YOUR MONEY. Seriously, just work on your craft. Get feedback from the people on Absolute Write.

You do NOT need an editor. You need feedback.

When you get the feedback you then hunt for agents who sell your kind of book. Easy enough--look for books similar to yours, look up those writers, and see who reps for them. Most writers mention their agent on their website.

There are still a few publishers who have a slush pile (you won't need an agent to submit the book for you) so you look for books in stores that are similar to yours and see who published them. Those are the ones you look up to see their submission guidelines.

DO NOT look online for an agent or publisher. A google search for "book publishers" will result in a ton of scam operations. Stick to bookstores. Those books were properly sold, the writers got paid, and the publishers did the edit for them.

There's a nasty thing some scam operations do where they claim to "partner" with the writer. It has many names like "subsidy" publishing, but it's all a ploy to get your cash. If they want your money, they will be scammers.

Here's Preditors and Editors--they have a long list of what's legit and what's a rip off. Bookmark it. It's a valuable tool for writers.

http://pred-ed.com/peba.ht

Here's a good link to SFWA's (Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America) Information Center. It has tips on manuscript preparation and other good stuff to know. You need not be a member to use this resource!

http://www.sfwa.org/other-resources/f...

The articles are written by published pros. I hope you'll check them out!

http://www.sfwa.org/category/how-to-s...

I'll let you know I didn't have access to even 10% of the resources that are available to you now -- but I was still able to sell books. The more you know about the industry the better.

Now this is something to write down that's called Yog's Law: Money flows TOWARD the writer. The only place a writer signs a check is on the back: to endorse it!

Here's a confirmation from Neil Gaiman:

http://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/23...

Sorry this is so long, but I don't know how much you do or don't know on how things work in publishing. But if you think you need an editor to prep the MS before shopping it, then back away from that one. Learn to be your own editor. It's not rocket science! Get Elements of Style -- there are cheap copies at used bookstores, and get beta-readers.

Then start shopping that book.

Now, I CAN let you know it's too long. Most publishers want to keep their SF books between 75-100K words. A debut writer will be asked to trim to that length.

I had to do it myself with Tor last year. They asked me to cut my steampunk by 5000 words to make it "manageable." As it turned out I cut 8,000 words and they were delighted. The book's better for it, too.

No weeping for having to trim, we all kill our darlings. It's what writers do!

http://writeroutine.blogspot.com/2012...

And I just realized you probably never heard of me, which is okay. I'll put my website below so you can see I'm legit and not talking through my hat. I am NOT trying to solicit business, just paying it forward to another scribbler.

www.vampwriter.com

http://www.vampwriter.com/FAQ-WRITING...

Good luck! :-)

[[deleted user]]

P.N.: Firstly, please do not apologise for the length of your post. You sound professional enough to hear me when I say that everything we write, even on little boards like this one, ends up being more or less the length it really needs to be. :D

I am in the process of getting on Absolute Write and talking to the people there.

Thus far, I am conflicted between whether to seek professional publication or go indie. My thought process when I first put the two books up that I have since taken down is "get them selling as indie, then talk to a pro or three". Now, I am completely unsure what path to take.

I would like to talk with you a bit further if you are okay with that, just to pick your brains a little further about how to get from where I am at to where I want to be.

[P.N.]

Dean, I feel for ya, but I don't have much time to spare to have my brains picked. I've given you links to resources I'd have killed to have when I started out.

However, I can tell you, based on your first 500 words, whether you're ready to publish or not, either professionally or indie. That's the slush pile editor talking.

Send your first 500 words to the email address on my website. Make sure they're not a prologue but the actual start of the book.

It's late where I am here, so I'll have to get to it tomorrow when I'm fresh. I do not extend that invitation lightly. It's reserved for writers looking to hire me, but I know all too well what it's like to be on a money diet. This is me paying it forward.

[[deleted user]]

P.N., please pardon me the phrasing of my last reply. I will check out your response and do as you have instructed. I am truly just trying to work out what I do next. And I will do as you have instructed in this latest response. I am presently trying to get to sleep etc myself. :/ :-S etc

I will write more when I am less confused and scatterbrained. etc.

[Kelly]

Hello, Dean,

I offer a professional and affordable editing service. If you would like to know more about me, my service, and my past projects and clients, you may visit my website at editing.xterraweb.com.

I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. You may message me here or e-mail me at editor@xterraweb.com

[[deleted user]]

Thank you, Kelly. Again, I will put your addresses in my notebook and get in touch later if I still think I need editing.

However, if others are reading this thread and thinking of posting links to their services, I would encourage them to stop at this point and seek other threads in which authors ask about editing services. Whilst I will still investigate the offered services here, I have received advice that I might be better advised to find beta readers, see what they might have to say, and do another rewrite before speaking to any editors. And from more than one source at that.

If any mods see this thread, they might even be ready to close it rather than let it go on attracting effort that might be best offered elsewhere. I thank all those who have responded thus far, however, as I have learned more in the past 46 hours than at any other point since I started to seriously work on getting these few manuscripts "ready".

*waits for a friendly mod to come looking*

[Adriana]

Dean wrote: "I originally posted this in the sci-fi/fantasy group:

"Well, after a month or two, having finally received some feedback and talking to people, I am faced with a few difficult choices to make.

I ..."

Please take a moment to check out our website at www.3pediting.com. We offer quality and affordable editing for authors of all genre. Also please take a moment to like us on Facebook.


Adriana D'Apolito
Owner 3P Editing

[Emily]

I am a freelance editor just starting my own editing business. I have very affordable prices, and I'm willing to negotiate on those. I'm mainly looking for experience right now, as well as honest reviews on my Facebook page and here on Goodreads!

www.facebook.com/freelancebookwormedi...