The Battle of Life (hosted by Petra)

[Kathleen]

As a 21st century reader, I have to say Dickens’ bickering couples sometimes grate on my nerves, from both the side of the disgruntled and whining wife and the dismissive and placating husband. I was reminded of Bleak House’s Mr. and Mrs. Snagsby here. I guess the perceived need to conceal things is partly what drives this behavior, and that causes problems no matter what century you’re living in!

[Petra]

Kathleen, I find the wives attitude somewhat confusing. They've lived with their husbands for some time now and don't seem to understand them at all. The business of law, in general, means that the husbands can't come home and "talk shop". The business is confidential in nature. Yet the wives feel left out because of this.

I'm really liking both Snitchey and Cragg and more so as the story goes on. I was leery, at first, at their presence because Dickens doesn't have a love for lawyers and I thought these two might, in some way, bring harm or trouble to the family.
However, Snitchey and Cragg are proving to be loyal friends. They've spent a month fretting and worrying about what Michael told them and have tonight worked to keeping Michael away from Marion. They truly care for Marion's future and happiness.
They seem like genuinely warm and caring people.

[Omar]

It wasn't super clear to me if the lawyers wives suspicion´s were tongue in cheek

[Lee]

Petra wrote: "MN, I am also always appalled when I read about how Dickens treated his wife."

I agree with you: I don't understand how/why Dickens changed at the end of his life. He went to great lengths to protect his mistress, while apparently abusing his wife. And to me, if he truly forbid his children from living with her, as the records show, while he moved in with the actress - it seemed to reach the point of psychological abuse!
{The following has been copied to: Spin-offs & Sequels to C Dickens' stories} :
Has anyone read Girl in a Blue Dress? It is based on Dickens and his wife, but uses pseudonyms for all the characters. It addresses these problems and is supposedly based on the letters Dickens wrote to Catherine during their separation.}

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

Lee wrote: "Has anyone read Girl in a Blue Dress? It is based on Dickens and his wife, but uses pseudonyms for all the characters ..."

That's great info Lee, and it would be really useful if you could talk about it LINK HERE (or a similar thread) so it doesn't get lost! Thank you 😊

[Sam]

Kathleen wrote: "As a 21st century reader, I have to say Dickens’ bickering couples sometimes grate on my nerves, from both the side of the disgruntled and whining wife and the dismissive and placating husband. I w..."

I like the spats and complaints between couples. Reminds me of all the families I observed in my youth. Not all of the spats end in murder. Sometimes folks just enjoy a good fight.

[Petra]

Omar wrote: "It wasn't super clear to me if the lawyers wives suspicion´s were tongue in cheek"

Omar, I think (but am not sure) that Dickens intended the thoughts and actions of the wives to be humorous and taken lightly by the readers of the story.

But I also think (but am not sure) that within the story the wives' thoughts and actions were serious for them. I feel that they somehow felt left out of this portion of their husbands' lives and felt a little bit like outsiders from the perspective of their professional careers.

The lawyers would have had to keep their professional lives seperate from their personal lives, for the discretion of their clients. That's a large part of their husbands' lives that these wives are not privy to. That could make them feel a bit outside of their husbands' lives. It's hard for a wife to be excluded from such a large part of her husband's life.

I suppose that, in a way, the wives would always feel as if there was a part of their husbands that they did not know and could never get to know. It must have been a lonely spot in their lives.

[Petra]

Lee, thank you! The book sounds really interesting. I've put it on my library TBR list (they have a copy).

[Petra]

Part the Second Summary 10:

They took to the dance floor enthusiastically danced until breathless. The doctor, too, spun round and round. The room was gay and bright. The room was filled with happy partyers.

The doctor, being hot and breathless, began to wonder where Alfred was. It is midnight and he has not yet arrived. Another log was added to the fire to add welcoming cheer for Alfred.

At that moment, Alfed did see the cheery light as he crested the hill in his chaise. He knew each tree he passed. He had tears in his eyes as he approached the house. He’s thought of this moment so often. He waved his hat and cheered loudly as he neared the house.

But, stop! He could surprise them all by leaving the chaise and walking to the house. He could enter through the orchard gate or climb the wall and be there quickly. He got off the chaise and gave directions to the driver. After climbing the wall, he was in the orchard.

He crept quietly towards the house. The light from the room greeted him. He saw people through the window, heard their merry voices.

[Petra]

I am really enjoying the gaiety of this party. The people are lively and fun-loving and gay. It's a contrast to the Doctor's usual outlook on Life. Perhaps he isn't as pessimistic as he speaks?

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

Petra, are we reading to the end of Part the Second for today (Friday, January 12)? I didn't see it posted for Summary 10. Thank you!

[Omar]

Petra wrote: "Omar wrote: "It wasn't super clear to me if the lawyers wives suspicion´s were tongue in cheek"

Omar, I think (but am not sure) that Dickens intended the thoughts and actions of the wives to be hu..."

I thought the same as you, that there was actually distrust on the part of the wives, I was confused because in the summary for that section puts it as if the wives were in on the joke.

This was a custom for the two couples, who were good friends. The treacherous, cunning Craggs and Snitcheys that the wives spoke of were recognized fiction. The wives felt that their stories brought them into the business and made the business more successful.

[Petra]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Petra, are we reading to the end of Part the Second for today (Friday, January 12)? I didn't see it posted for Summary 10. Thank you!"

Shirley, thank you! We are not reading to the end of Part the Second for today (Jan 12).
I've added the "To" line in Summary 10. Thank you for pointing this out.

(it was a test to see if anyone is using the links and guides. LOL..... not really; I forgot to add it)

[Petra]

Omar wrote: "I thought the same as you, that there was actually distrust on the part of the wives, I was confused because in the summary for that section puts it as if the wives were in on the joke..."

Omar, I went back to Dickens orginal words to double check. He did leave the situation as a bit of a conundrum, I think:

"Perhaps the false Craggs and the wicked Snitchey were a recognised fiction with the two wives; or, perhaps the ladies had instituted, and taken upon themselves, these two shares i the business, rather than be left out of it altogether."

The use of "perhaps" leaves it open.

[Petra]

"Perhaps the false Craggs and the wicked Snitchey were a recognised fiction with the two wives, as Doe and Roe, incessantly running up and down bailiwicks, were with the two husbands; or, perhaps the ladies had instituted, and taken upon themselves, these two shares in the business, rather than be left out of it altogether."



Doe and Roe were fictional characters in an old English law debate called the Acts of Ejection and were the beginning of the term "John Doe":

"The "John Doe" custom dates back to the reign of England's King Edward III, during the legal debate over something called the Acts of Ejectment. This debate involved a hypothetical landowner, referred to as "John Doe," who leased land to another man, the equally fictitious "Richard Roe," who then took the land as his own and "ejected," or evicted, poor "John Doe."

These names -- John Doe and Richard Roe -- had no particular significance, aside from "Doe" (a female deer) and "Roe" (a small species of deer found in Europe) being commonly known nouns at the time. But the debate became a hallmark of legal theory, and the name "John Doe" in particular gained wide currency in both the legal world and general usage as a generic stand-in for any unnamed person. "John Doe" and "Richard Roe" are, to this day, mandated in legal procedure as the first and second names given to unknown defendants in a case."

Exerpt from Origins of John Jane Doe:
https://www.answers.com/english-langu...

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

That's fascinating, Petra!

[Petra]

Therefore, "Doe and Roe" are as fictional as (perhaps) the wives' fictional "false Craggs and wicked Snitchey".

[Connie]

Thanks for the great research, Petra, about Doe and Roe!

[Sam]

Petra wrote: "Therefore, "Doe and Roe" are as fictional as (perhaps) the wives' fictional "false Craggs and wicked Snitchey"."

I took it that way. It seemed common in fiction in the days before feminism for wives and husbands to have passive-aggressive conflicts of varying degrees and often including made-up or exaggerated grievances that were played out when one or the other member of the couple was feeling slighted. I say in fiction but remember many of these being carried into everyday relations. There would even be times during get-togethers when this spilled into public discussion and then the males would be on one side and the females on the other playfully baiting the other over these often made up or exaggerated grievances. One example for the ladies that I often heard, was "how the men worked umpteen hours outside the home but wouldn't lift a finger within." A common male one was, "women are bad drivers."

[Sam]

I like that Dickens had a little fun with the personification of the dancing fire and especially in the descibing of the dancing. Note Dickens on Snitchey's moves:

"...and Mr. Snitchey, with his nimble cuts and capers, footed it for Self and Craggs, and half-a-dozen more."

[Omar]

all of this info helps paint a clearer picture!, I am definitely leaning towards "in on the joke" now.

[Bridget]

Petra wrote: "I am really enjoying the gaiety of this party. The people are lively and fun-loving and gay. It's a contrast to the Doctor's usual outlook on Life. Perhaps he isn't as pessimistic as he speaks?"

That's what I thought too, Petra. The doctor's behavior was so surprising, and also delightful. He reminded me of a whirling dervish "no feature of the Doctor's face could be distinguished as he spun and spun", He is also described as a "pegtop highly varnished", which I imagine is a child's toy where you pull a string, and the top just spins and spins.

Like Sam, I also really enjoyed the animation of the fire. My favorite part was when the glow of the fire "kindled up a general illumination in Mrs. Cragg's little belfry". I laughed at that!! Mrs. Craggs must be the wife with bells on her hat. The other wife has the bird of paradise hat (which is a hilarious image all by itself!)

The house and the party are create such a warm, happy atmosphere. It changes rather abruptly when Alfred climbs over the wall and finds "small branches like dead garlands" and "the desolation of a winter night sat brooding on the earth". That feels ominous.

[Petra]

Bridget, I agree. The Doctor's house is an oasis in a storm of many facets.
There's the weather itself. A raging storm outside of the warm & happy household.
There's the tensions of Snitchey & Cragg trying to keep Michael from Marion.
There's the tensions of Marion's mysterious worries and concerns.

All these storms surround this happy little dance oasis. There are battles here, as well as an everyday experience of a party of celebration. The balance of Life.

[Bridget]

Petra wrote: "Bridget, I agree. The Doctor's house is an oasis in a storm of many facets.
There's the weather itself. A raging storm outside of the warm & happy household.
There's the tensions of Snitchey & Cra..."

Thats all so true Petra! Great insights there.

[Petra]

Perhaps the Doctor is also in a battle within himself. We're told he's a gentle, kind man. We see him at this dance as a carefree, happy, throw-caution-to-the-wind sort of man. Yet his life experiences have given him a large band of pessimism and joyless thoughts.

Perhaps he, too, battles within himself to find a true self, a true belief and a true outlook on Life; one that balances the darker thoughts and truisms with the happier, brighter ones.

[Petra]

Part the Second Summary 11:

He listened for Marion’s voice. As he neared the door, it was swung open and a figure rushed out and encountered him. It was Clemency.

She tells him to not go inside. She doesn’t know why but she’s afraid. Suddenly there is a scream inside the house and Grace comes running out. When she sees Alfred, she falls at his feet. A rush of people come to the door, including the doctor, holding a paper in his hand.

Alfred looks at the stricken faces and asks what caused this. He bends down to see to Grace, who is insensible.

The doctor tells him that Marion is gone. She has fled. She left a note saying that she has gone and begs their forgiveness and prays that she won’t be forgotten.

He can’t believe them and enters the crowd & the house to look wildly about him. When he realizes that she’s gone, he goes back to Grace and holds her cold hand.

There was a great commotion as everyone ran around, to and fro, in the confusion. Some searched the roads, on foot and on horse. Some offered Alfred consolation. He heard and saw nothing. He was rooted in the spot.

The snow was falling, obliterating any trace of a trail to follow. Alfred saw the flakes as ashes thrown on his dreams. The snow would cover any trace of Marion and blot it out. He didn’t feel the weather or stir to get out of it.

[Petra]

The Night of the Return by John Leech, 1846

[Petra]

"'What is the matter?' he exclaimed. 'I don't know. I — I am afraid to think. Go back. Hark!'" by Fred Barnard, 1878

[Petra]

"And sunk down in his former attitude, clasping one of Grace's cold hands in his own." " by E. A. Abbey, 1876

[Petra]

The Return of Alfred Heathfield by Charles Green, 1912

[Petra]

Alfred Learns the Tidings of Marion's Sudden Flight by Charles Green, 1912

[Shirley (stampartiste)]

What an overwhelmingly sad passage! I really choked up reading Alfred's homecoming. If only Marion could have seen what grief she caused before she left. I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I'm hoping that Marion was delayed somehow and witnessed this before making that fateful decision.

Petra, thank you again for all of these wonderful illustrations! That last one by Charles Green reminds me of a battle scene where one of the beloved soldiers lies mortally wounded while his fellow soldiers stand by and mourn. The way that Dickens described how the snow would cover Marion's footprints and blot out any remembrance of her also reminded me of the opening battle scene and how the presence of the soldiers were also eventually blotted out with time.

This whole section was deeply sad to me.

[Petra]

Shirley, that's a wonderful tie-in to the beginning of the story. I hadn't thought about that at all. It fits so perfectly. The story of Life is a large circle; all things repeat, one way or another. That's a wonderful insight to the circle of this story.

This section saddened me, too. The storm that surrounded the party has broken through. There's not more happiness and light for anyone.

[Petra]

I'm intrigued by John Leech's illustration. The bottom illustration shows Marion leaving the house with (presumably) Michael.
If he left the ship and returned for Marion, they must have missed the sailing of the ship because Mr. Snitchey told Cragg that the ship was leaving as he arrived to the party, and Marion was still there in the room.
So, it's possible that they are nearby.

[Petra]

Part the Third



By Richard Doyle, 1846

[Petra]

Part the Third Summary 1:

Six years have passed. The green fields are idyllic with sunshine, leaves changing into brilliant colour, blue skies, gentle rains. Amid the trees is a sign by an comfortable, welcoming Inn. The horses are welcomed with fresh water and hay. People are welcomed with lively flower pots, clean curtains and rooms, and jugs of ale.

The landlord stood at doorway. He’s a short man and stocky. He is surrounded by his flowering, overgrown garden. Colourful and abundant, everything and everyone well served and cared for. The name of the inn is The Nutmeg-Grater and the landlord is none other than Benjamin Britain, looking better and more comfortable with the passing of the years.

He calls for his wife, then walks to the road and observes his inn. Satisfied and happy; this is the sort of place he would like to stop at, if he were a traveller. He wanders through the garden, observing the flowers, and wonders what is keeping his wife so long.

[Petra]

The Nutmeg Grater by Clarkson Stanfield, 1846

[Petra]

The Nutmeg Grater Inn by Charles Green, 1912

[Petra]

I really enjoyed the description of the old battlefield in this section. The battle isn't even mentioned, but colour, birds, sun, rain, a rainbow.....things of beauty and peace.....are mentioned in abundance.
Despite the battles of Life, there are moments of peace and tranquility. Life goes on and the past remains in the past.

[MN]

What a contrast between Mr Britain as husband, and Snitchey and Craggs in that role!

[Kathleen]

Petra wrote: "I really enjoyed the description of the old battlefield in this section. The battle isn't even mentioned, but colour, birds, sun, rain, a rainbow.....things of beauty and peace.....are mentioned in..."

I enjoyed this too! It is so satisfying to think of Mr. and Mrs. B being happy there, with all of this beauty around them, like a place of healing.

To go back a bit, I want to thank you Petra for the fascinating history of Doe and Roe! And I enjoyed everyone’s thoughts on the Crags and Snitchey couples.

And Bridget, the change in descriptive words when Alfred returned and nears the house is such a great detail--thanks for pointing it out. I love all the ways Dickens is able to make us feel so strongly, even about events we know are coming!

But this Inn was unexpected, and very fun. Can't wait to hear more about the Britains.

[Sam]

I agree with all. I hope we remain calm and positive. I am getting motion sickness from these chsnges in mood. I am quite pleased with the amount of story Dickens has drawn out of "the nutmeg-grater," device. This is his third use of it and all have seemed unique and entertaining.

[Petra]

MN wrote: "What a contrast between Mr Britain as husband, and Snitchey and Craggs in that role!"

In what way, MN? I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Britain does seem to be happy. I'm not sure whether Snithchey and Craggs are not? Or are?
In this story, I feel that Dickens sometimes leaves out some details, which leaves us unsure about the characters. Or, at least, I'm unsure about them. There are gaps in time where we don't know what happened to form our characters and there are experiences "off stage" that we aren't privy to and that seem to be leading elements in this story. Things such as the history between Grace, Marion and Alfred and the home lives of the lawyers.

[Petra]

Kathleen, I do hope the opening scene is a place of healing and not yet another oasis of calm before the storm. Dickens has been creating a string of false calms. Fingers crossed that this one is real. It would be nice if Britain was truly in a place of peace.

[Petra]

Sam wrote: "I agree with all. I hope we remain calm and positive. I am getting motion sickness from these chsnges in mood. I am quite pleased with the amount of story Dickens has drawn out of "the nutmeg-grate..."

Just to remind us, here are the words of the nutmeg-grater: "Do as you would be done by".


Sam, we have been on a roller coaster of a ride through this story. Just as we relax into a calm, that storm (or battle) breaks out.

I do like the naming of the Inn to the words of the nutmeg grater. If traveller's knew the words of the grater, they would instantly know that they'd be well served and taken care of in this Inn.

[Lee]

I have a question which I didn't find answered going back through all the posts.

Did Dickens publish this all at once, or was it part of a serial?

I would be interested in how many copies sold at first.

[Lee]

Bionic Jean wrote: "As for the discussion about editions which are not original ... Most readers will be aware that in "Dickensians!" we always have the closest to the original edition on our shelves, .."

Excellent reminder, Jean as I myself had forgotten this. Sometimes I prefer though to choose an edition with the best annotations. Yet the moderator, in this case Petra has included the most stunning collection of illustrations that I can't believe are available anywhere else but here. Thank you, Jean and Petra!

[Lee]

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Petra, are we reading to the end of Part the Second for today (Friday, January 12)? Thank you!"

Petra I am having trouble finding your links showing where each reading begins and ends. Can you put a link together with each summary....."Reading stops at" . . . ". I looked over your Summary 10 & did not find a link!

Please help!

[Lee]

Petra wrote: "I really enjoyed the description of the old battlefield in this section. The battle isn't even mentioned, but colour, birds, sun, rain, a rainbow.....things of beauty and peace.....are mentioned in..."
Re: Message 289, at the beginning of Section 3. I too was astonished at the skill Dickens shows here, combining metaphors of sunlight and life, sun defeating cloud, life and death. . . all on the very battleground where so much life was lost.

I like how " . . . the sun's slanting rays pierced mortally the sullen bank of cloud that lingered in its flight. . . " The use of the word "mortally" here is especially apt!

[Lee]

for Petra's message 293: "I feel that Dickens sometimes leaves out some details, which leaves us unsure about the characters.".

You make a brave, good point here (as my cat climbs upon my left shoulder to get my attention!!) - Sometimes I get into the frame of mind of idolizing my favorite author to the point where I cannot see any imperfections. Yet perhaps we can carefully say that in his rush to make this just a story and not a novel, Charles Dickens left out some critical details.

I am left unsure myself when I opened Chapter 3. I know six years have passed, but it feels as though we are missing critical pieces of information. And I never thought Clemency was more than just simple-minded!