The 'Troubles'

[Roman Clodia]

I thought we had a thread for the 'Troubles', the euphemism for the violent relationship between England and Ireland, and the creation of Northern Ireland, an issue which hangs over much of the twentieth century - but seems not, so here it is.

I'm prompted by listening to the superb Killing Thatcher by Rory Carroll, an Irish Guardian journalist. I thought I was reasonably well-informed but I'm learning so much: I had no idea, for example, that Bobby Sands, one of the H-block hunger strikers who starved himself to death in protest against the British government's categorisation of the IRA as criminals rather than political prisoners and combatants, was elected as an MP to Westminster.

I'm in an excellent section at the moment tracing the struggle between bomb-makers and the Met's bomb disposal unit during an intense London bombing campaign. I remember growing up with bomb threats and evacuations on the tube and Oxford Street as everyday occurrences.

We've read some good books on the 'Troubles', Milkman being a standout for me, and this is a fantastic non-fiction complement.

Any other recommendations from anyone or thoughts?

[Claire]

I find this a very interesting period as I also remember growing up with bomb threats in London and continual news reports of sectarian violence in Northern Ireland. I agree that Milkman is very good, and more recently I enjoyed Trespasses by Louise Kennedy which I felt reflected the era well.

[Nigeyb]

The best book I have read on the subject is....


Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland

by

Patrick Radden Keefe


It was the best book I read in 2022. Review here...

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


Also, whilst not a book, I cannot recommend the BBC documentary series Once Upon a Time in Northern Ireland highly enough. Absolutely essential viewing...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...


I've read a handful of novels set in Northern Ireland during the Troubles but, like many, I regard Milkman as the best

[Hester]

Yes . It was on our doorstep and far away at the same time . As well as the above recommendations , all excellent , I would addCalwhich was written at the time and hasn't lost its impact . I wondered if Trespassescould be considered it's female cousin, although I prefer the former for its deep examination of faith and the scurge of unemployment. Shadows on Our Skin is another favourite if you like dialogue. Indirectly I would argue Field Work: Poemsis another product of the time , a collection of poems written by Heaney over 4 years in exile in Wicklow . Quite stunning .

[Roman Clodia]

Claire wrote: "I find this a very interesting period as I also remember growing up with bomb threats in London and continual news reports of sectarian violence in Northern Ireland."

Interesting that you mention Trespasses as I was a bit disappointed by it but maybe that's because I had an idea of what I wanted it to be.

Say Nothing is indeed fantastic, and the ideology of the phrase is important in Rory Carroll's book.

Cal by Bernard MacLaverty is an old book that I remember reading and, of course, Elizabeth Bowen's The Last September from the point of view of an Anglo-Irish family in 1920 just before Irish Independence.

[Nigeyb]

I too have read Cal. It's certainly worth a read but I felt it paled in comparison to Milkman. Review here...


https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Nigeyb]

The Last September evokes a clear sense of Ireland during the troubles in 1920, and specifically how the Anglo-Irish aristocracy appear to have refused to accept that anything was wrong.

Ultimately though I found it a frustrating book. The plot meandered, the style was frequently difficult to fathom, and I was bored as often as I was enthralled. Perhaps this is a more realistic and accurate way to portray history?

[WndyJW]

I loved Milkman, that was one year the Booker got it right, in my opinion.

[Roman Clodia]

There's another book set in Dublin that takes in Easter 1916 that has a big impact on me as a student but I can't remember the name of it - maybe something street? It was recommended by a Belfast friend.

[Roman Clodia]

Bowen's just not for you, Nigeyb, so best move on as you have. Maybe she's to you what Graham Greene is to me?! 😡

[Roman Clodia]

This is not about the 'Troubles' but as we're chatting about Irish history I'll throw in Strumpet City by James Plunkett, which I remember as an epic novel about social injustice set in Dublin 1913 - it's not 'literary' or stylish but is excellent on trade unionism and something akin to the miners' strike in its cultural impact, complicated by the Catholic church siding with the employers since unionism was regarded as godless socialism - maybe think of it as sitting alongside books like The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists and Love on the Dole.

[Roman Clodia]

Just to go back to enthusing about 'Killing Thatcher' - it's very interesting that the IRA sent a contrite message about the Harrods bomb.

And the incredible life of the controversial Gerry Adams who didn't support the Brighton bomb as he wanted Sinn Fein to win at the ballot box. He's just survived a loyalist paramilitary assassination attempt, took four bullets and still made it, though one of his fellow car passengers was killed.

[Hester]

My son , who went to Belfast University, Queens, sometimes shares the documentary Pop Goes Northern Ireland with me . Each episode is an extended news collage , without interpretation , with hits of the year as background . Watched like this it's an almost hypnotic and relentless hour of tit for tat made even more poignant with the music which reminds me that so many were trying to get on with their lives .

[Roman Clodia]

On Killing Thatcher (I'm obsessed with this book!) it's fascinating to get the historical context that runs alongside the Brighton bombing: the miners' strike is happening with Maggie aiming to break the unions, and the police are raiding gay pubs in Brighton wearing rubber gloves because of the newly-discovered AIDS. I don't understand what they're raiding the pubs for though? Drugs? Being gay has been decriminalized for years, hasn't it?

[Susan]

The Book Review podcast today has Patrick Radden Keefe on Taking "Say Nothing" From Book to Show

As part of The New York Times Book Review's project on the 100 Best Books published since the year 2000, Nick Hornby called "Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland" one of the "greatest literary achievements of the 21st century." The author Patrick Radden Keefe joins host Gilbert Cruz to talk about his book, which has now been adapted into an FX miniseries.

Keefe has now seen his reporting on the life of Irish Republican Army soldier Dolours Price and others make its way from a New Yorker magazine article to an acclaimed nonfiction book to a streaming series. "In terms of storytelling, I try to write in a way that is as visceral and engaging as possible," Keefe said. "But the toolkit that you have when you make a series is so much more visceral. It's almost fissile in its power."

[Nigeyb]

Here's a review of the TV adaptation of Say Nothing which is available on Disney+...


https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...


I don't think I'll bother with it

I agree with Nick Hornby about the book though

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, great book, but that comment seems like hyperbole to me - 'one of the greatest literary achievements of the 21st century'? We're not even a quarter of the way in to the century!

[Nigeyb]

Indeed


More than a tad hyperbolic

It is a magnificent achievement though

[Martin]

I only just saw this topic. I will try to cast my mind back and think of some interesting fiction but the first book that comes to mind is the personal story of Bernadette Devlin in the Civil Rights movement of the late 60s
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
Well worth a read, but maybe a library copy as I just looked on Amazon and the original paperback is listed at over £100 pounds now.