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What are we reading? 4/12/2023

Have been appalled by the stories of violence against women in the Hamas attacks and also appalled that world opinion seems to have neglected the fate of hundreds of young Israeli women gang raped and murdered at the music festival and in the kibbutzes. Women are treated like cattle in Gaza by the religious system of Hamas but i was still shocked by what happened and lots of video evidence is easily found as Hamas filmed it all on go-pro cameras
Late September 2023 to 7th October, saw two of the most persecuted people of the last 100 years, the Armenians and the Jews face repetitions of what happened to theor ancestors/
One poor girl said on the phone to her sister at the music festival, before she was shot dead it felt like "she was in the holocaust" as she ran to escape the Hamas gunmen

Referring back to Robert's post re the Sea of Thunder, I might give that one a try, so thanks Robert too. Not my normal reading these days but it is always good to broaden one's reading.
Here the snow has disappeared in torrents of rain which is due to continue through tomorrow. Lovely.

Here we are in December. A wet and chilly December morning here, although the temperature is supposed to be going up compared with the last few days.
As usual, happy reading to all."
Thanks as always for taking care of these threads - and also for your recommendation in the last one:
"I posted not long ago about Sarah Gainham's novels:
the trilogy: Night Falls on the City"
I've ordered this one as an ebook at only 99p, so if I like it I'll follow through with the others...
@AB76
Referring back to the last thread, where you wrote,
i'm wary of the Kerr and downing novels, though they are about an interesting era, neither are German and i wonder if i would truly enjoy them
You might prefer to try Volker Kutscher's Gereon Rath series, although they are pre-war. He is German. I recommend reading them in order, although they get better as they go on.The first is Babylon Berlin. 5 books have been translated into English, there are 9 in all (so far?). The 1st is set in 1929 and the 9th in 1937.
Referring back to the last thread, where you wrote,
i'm wary of the Kerr and downing novels, though they are about an interesting era, neither are German and i wonder if i would truly enjoy them
You might prefer to try Volker Kutscher's Gereon Rath series, although they are pre-war. He is German. I recommend reading them in order, although they get better as they go on.The first is Babylon Berlin. 5 books have been translated into English, there are 9 in all (so far?). The 1st is set in 1929 and the 9th in 1937.

I was taken aback by your comment in the last thread that
"Two authors on my list that I have yet to get to. I recently had the idea of reading Joyce's Some Came Running..."
as I had no knowledge of any war books by the Irish

The only 20th century general elected US President was Dwight Eisenhower. During the Second World War, Ike went from complete obscurity (outside the US Army, at least) to world fame without losing his sense of proportion-- always a valuable trait, which I wish that Trump and Biden shared.
I have an impression - quite possibly misplaced - that in more recent times, leaders who have no personal knowledge of combat seem to quite blithely send their armed forces 'over the top' - thinking here in UK terms of Thatcher and Blair. Now Thatcher had a sort-of point, though I don't believe the alternatives were given enough time or effort; Blair, on the other hand, seemed hell-bent on war at all costs. "He's finished as PM," I told madame - and so it proved, thanks to the 'dodgy dossier'.

This short extract caught my attention today;
She was taken by his boyishness, or his pretence of it. He had a repertoire of exclamations—gosh, crikey, crumbs—that she supposed he had got from Billy Bunter books or the like, for these words and his way of tossing them about so casually were the stuff of public-school life, and Leslie White, she felt sure, had never seen the inside, or possibly even the outside, of such an institution.
This zoomed my memory back to the television series called Billy Bunter ( I never read the books) - the fat boy in the school blazer (who was really an adult actor playing a child). I remember finding it rather tainted with nastiness but it was a popular series as were the books.
It was those words - gosh, crikey, crumbs - once heard so frequently that jogged . Others such as Cor blimey or Gordon Bennett seem to have become largely lost today and it seems to me that swear words particularly the f word have taken their place. I don’t think these once common words were particularly in use mainly in public schools, they were generally common.
I just about remember Billy Bunter on TV - not very funny - I seem to remember some comic strips with the character as well. He was a figure of fun because of his obesity, but also unloveable as the 'fat owl of the remove' and because of his dishonesty. I don't recall any 'sympathetic' characters in that series!
TBH, I don't remember many of those words being used frequently in 'real life', as opposed to use in comics, books or TV programmes... I think 'Gordon Bennett' was popular for a while. Seems to me that some of the more recent euphemisms were created explicitly (!) for TV programmes - from 'Porridge' or a similar show, we had "Naff off!" and "He's got me in the nadgers!" etc. As for 'Allo, Allo', well...
Of course, one famous public figure does come out frequently with these invented or archaic terms, no doubt with the wish to appear 'loveable' - "Wiff-waff" for example. Unfortunately, it doesn't work - perhaps because some of us can remember other such out-of-date expressions such as "picaninnies with melon smiles"...
Say no more.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics...


Referring back to the last thread, where you wrote,
i'm wary of the Kerr and downing novels, though they are about an interesting era, neither are German and i wonder if i would truly enjoy ..."
i'm watching and enjoying Babylon Berlin tv series on sky, so maybe i should read the novels thanks

Want to come to Seattle? I have a basement (kinda cool) room waiting for someone who appreciates the sun rising at 7:38 and setting at 4:19 today.
You are spoiled for daylight hours in Seattle. Today in West Wales, the sun rose at 08:08 and will set at 16:05!

I recently re-read one of (Max Hastings') first, Battle of Britain, co-written with Len Deighton.
Interesting... that gave me pause, as I had read Deighton's war histories Fighter: The True Story of the Battle of Britain and Bomber by Len Deighton. Which came first? I thought...
From Wikipedia:
First published in 1977, (Fighter) was Deighton's first history book although he had made his name as a writer of spy fiction. Deighton was encouraged to write the book by his friend, the British historian AJP Taylor, who wrote its introduction.
The book covers the traditional period of the Battle of Britain and the buildup to it and describes the war in the air as much from the German point of view as the British one.
Deighton was not a historian, but gives an excellent account of the strengths and weaknesses of the various aircraft as well as other strategic considerations (he was in the RAF). I found the books very interesting and they take a technical approach not common AFAIK in books of this type. I read the books as I appreciated Deighton's story-telling skills, as well as having an interest in air combat via Biggles and Saint-Exupéry. (I did read them long ago.)

Want to come to Seattle? I have a basement (kinda cool) room waiting for someone who appreciates the sun rising at 7:38 and setting at 4:19 today.
You are spoiled for daylight hours in..."
1605, a lovely time for darkness...

The only 20th century general elected US President was Dwight Eisenhower. During the Second World War, Ike went from complete obscurity (outside the US Army, at least) to wo..."
Funny you should be talking about that (it was a common happening in WWI but in the thousands). The reason I say this is the book I mentioned I am reading by Eliot Cohen

talks about generals and politicians. He quoted Coriolanus as an example of a brilliant, brave and idolised general for whom it all fell apart when he tried to get a seat as a senator. Whilst good generalist don't stand for any bullsh*t, politicians are full of it (or better at dissembling if we want to be more polite) is the premise. He compares, especially American generals who have succeeded or failed as politicians. I'm only a third of the way through but I am sure many here would enjoy the book. The author is, of course comparing Shakespeare's interpretation of rulers, as opposed to history's rulers (if that makes sense), with politicians. He contrasts how they gain power, how they keep it and how they lose it. And we know that most politicians eventually lose it rather more than many monarchs (bit like football managers come to think about it!).
I hope this make some sort of sense.

Want to come to Seattle? I have a basement (kinda cool) room waiting for someone who appreciates the sun rising at 7:38 and setting at 4:19 today.
You are spoiled for daylight hours in..."
What sun!

I think you meant to post "What sun?" - a very good point, as the golden orb has yet to show itself through the clouds (it's rained for most of the day) and seems unlikely to make a personal appearance...

I think you meant to post "What sun?" - a very good point, as the golden orb has yet to show itself through the clouds (it's rained for most of the day) and seems un..."
How about what sun?!

As Sherlock Holmes would phrase it, "Elementary, my dear: 'What sun?'"
scarletnoir wrote: "@MK wrote: Want to come to Seattle ... the sun rising at 7:38 and setting at 4:19 today."
"Today in West Wales, the sun rose at 08:08 and will set at 16:05!..."
And here in Paris, sunrise (what sun?! indeed!) 8.27, sunset 16.57. Rain most of the day here, too.
"Today in West Wales, the sun rose at 08:08 and will set at 16:05!..."
And here in Paris, sunrise (what sun?! indeed!) 8.27, sunset 16.57. Rain most of the day here, too.

Have been appalled by the stories of violence against women in the Hamas attacks and also appalled that world op..."
Scapegoats must be it. I'm thinking of minorities in the world. Why is it that they seem to have to be persecuted? Is it just because?
Here in the US I'm thinking of the arrest in a 'murder for hire' plot after the extrajudicial killing of the member of the Sikh community in Vancouver.
i just don't understand.

Have been appalled by the stories of violence against women in the Hamas attacks and also appalled ..."
Modi, with his bloodstained hands, is a vicious Hindu nationalist. his entire life has been about bullying and inciting anti-muslim riots, it seems now he is moving onto the Sikhs, who have had an uneasy status since 1984 and the Gandhi assassination after the Amritsar siege
Canada and the UK have significant sikh populations and i would expect more killing of Sikh activists by Indian secret service. The focus on Sikhs is strange, they form a significant percentage of the Indian Punjab but very little presence elsewhere, except maybe in the military where they are as loyal to the state as they always have been. I think Modi just needs more dead bodies...he is a ludicrous little stooge and he shames India
In the empire days, the Sikhs were the backbone of the Indian army regiments of the British army, maybe Modi wants to stir that up

Referring back to the last thread, where you wrote,
i'm wary of the Kerr and downing novels, though they are about an interesting era, neither are German and i wonder if i would truly enjoy ..."
Oh dear, I know I have Babylon Berlin tucked away on some shelf. But I've just been scrolling through the Bitter Lemon Press catalog (https://www.bitterlemonpress.com/coll...) and have moved The Basel Killings to the top of the pile.
I also have found Hotel Bosphorus in an online store, so it's waiting in my cart now.

I was taken aback by your comment in the last thread that
"Two authors on my list that I have yet to get to. I recently had the idea of reading Joyce's Some Came Running..."
as I had no knowledge of any war books by the Irish
Yes, that was it. Jones Joyce. I mean Joyce James - no, I mean Jesse James. No, I mean ... um, ah ... don't tell me, I'll get it ...

Want to come to Seattle? I have a basement (kinda cool) room waiting for someone who appreciates the sun rising at 7:38 and setting at 4:19 today.
You are spoiled for daylight hours in..."
I had no idea you were more deprived than I.
Weatherwise, I'm heading out today to do some errands as we are expecting an atmospheric river of rain beginning tonight and which will last a day or two with flooding in some locations. A good time to curl up with a book.

Visited my dentist today who is of Hindu Indian heritage she, her nurse and I got talking about Christmas. She was telling me her mother was visiting India at Christmas "but I'll put some lights up for you."
My dentist told me she had put Christmas tree up and Diwahli came into the conversation. I asked if she celebrated both. She does and has Indian food for Diwahli and English food for Christmas and invites friends round.
I came away thinking "why can't everyone be like that."

exactly...india had an admirable system of respecting the five religions(sikh-hindu-muslim-christian-Jain) until the BJP started spreading Hindu nationalism in the 1980s and now Modi is the alpha-BJP goon and each one of the minority religions will face problems, when its all nonsense.
The Sikhs are mostly in NW (Punjab), the Jains in hilly areas of Gujurat and other states, Muslims dotted all over but most in the centre of India and the east, christians mostly in Madras area but also in the SW coast too. There are also tiny Parsi communties of Zorastarian beliefs(descended from iranians), of which Freddie Mercury was one.
I found out via a book on Iran i was reading during lockdown that Mad Ayatollah Khomienis's family spent much time in India, as Shia Islam is quite infliuential in some places, with the wonderful imambara's or indian shia temples dotted over these regions


I loathe all fiction that Mieville has written but am interested in this book, especially as it covers Karl Marx and the legacy of the Communist Manifesto. I'm not a Marxist or a communist but i find big Karlo a fascinating person, writer and thinker. Hopefully it will be a good read
scarletnoir wrote: "@Russell wrote:
I recently re-read one of (Max Hastings') first, Battle of Britain, co-written with Len Deighton.
Interesting... that gave me pause, as I had read Deighton's war histories ...</I>
I vaguely remembered about Len Deighton's earlier book. I’ve gone back to the intro, where Max Hastings explains the relation between the two:
“<I>Fighter </I>was published when I was already working on my own book <I>Bomber Command</I>, in which I aspired to work in the same fashion as Deighton, albeit in pursuit of a different theme. I was delighted and flattered, soon after <I>Bomber Command</I>’s publication, when I was invited to work with him on a book which developed pictorially some of the issues he had explored in <I>Fighter</I>. Essentially most of the ideas in this book are his. I have collated them with the visual material [which, again, is outstanding, and then done some of the drafting. For this fiftieth anniversary edition, Len has been generous enough to put my name alongside his as co-author.”
I think I was ungenerous in my remarks about Winston’s War (UK title, Finest Years). It is perfectly readable, just not especially memorable.
I recently re-read one of (Max Hastings') first, Battle of Britain, co-written with Len Deighton.
Interesting... that gave me pause, as I had read Deighton's war histories ...</I>
I vaguely remembered about Len Deighton's earlier book. I’ve gone back to the intro, where Max Hastings explains the relation between the two:
“<I>Fighter </I>was published when I was already working on my own book <I>Bomber Command</I>, in which I aspired to work in the same fashion as Deighton, albeit in pursuit of a different theme. I was delighted and flattered, soon after <I>Bomber Command</I>’s publication, when I was invited to work with him on a book which developed pictorially some of the issues he had explored in <I>Fighter</I>. Essentially most of the ideas in this book are his. I have collated them with the visual material [which, again, is outstanding, and then done some of the drafting. For this fiftieth anniversary edition, Len has been generous enough to put my name alongside his as co-author.”
I think I was ungenerous in my remarks about Winston’s War (UK title, Finest Years). It is perfectly readable, just not especially memorable.

It is well worth a second listen. Give it a try.
I

I am still baffled that an army that is the most innovative and attentive on earth, seemed to miss any hints of the terrible events of Oct 7th
From my piecing together of the evidence,(i havent listened to the NYT audio yet) it seems that the IDF simply did not believe Hamas were capable of such a sustained attack, breaching the wall in 60 places and simultaneously taking out all the observation posts and guns with drones. However this is exactly what Hamas did
Worryingly for a military that is very progressive on gender (women serve in almost all units and all do military service), the all female surveillance divisions seem to have been victims of sexism from senior officers when they reported various odd events from over the fence( ie Hamas drills, paragliding practice and kibbutz immolation) and were ignored.
Its doubly sad as these all female units were in the border bases that were attacked and most of these women were murdered, raped, or both, then taken hostage. The early go-pro footage on the army bases shows many female surveillance soldiers beaten up and handcuffed, covered in blood being led away by Hamas attackers. Many felt they were left totally undefended.
I sometimes think over confidence is the achilles heel of even the best armies and the IDF is probably the best in the world. it still baffles me that it took them 5 hours minimum in a very small country to deploy troops to the kibbutzes under attack. The western media seems to have missed the fact that the military DID deploy a unit of air force commandos and shin bet squads to the area almost right away. The Air commandos fought in the kibbutzes and did a brilliant job, many of the shin bet squads were wiped out though.
NB> Shin bet is the Israeli internal intelligence service, like Mi5

I also remember traveling across Montana. What a desolate place which goes on forever or at least two days.

Thanks for the clarification - I did notice that Deighton's book came out a few years earlier than that by Hastings - who is an interesting character, who despite having edited the Daily Telegraph is not always a Tory voter, by any means. He also wrote an excoriating attack on Boris Johnson for the Guardian:
It would be fanciful to liken the ascent of Boris Johnson to the outbreak of global war, but similar forces are in play. There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth...
I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d’ for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification...
Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it. Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later.
Like many showy personalities, he is of weak character. I recently suggested to a radio audience that he supposes himself to be Winston Churchill, while in reality being closer to Alan Partridge...
Johnson would not recognise truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade. In a commonplace book the other day, I came across an observation made in 1750 by a contemporary savant, Bishop Berkeley: “It is impossible that a man who is false to his friends and neighbours should be true to the public.” Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him.
Written in 2019, this piece was precise and prescient... and so it came to pass.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentis...

Here we are in December. A wet and chilly December morning here, although the temperature is supposed to be going up compared with the last few days.
As usual, happy reading to all."
As usual, help with the site. Thank you.

Have been appalled by the stories of violence against women in the Hamas attacks and also appalled that world op..."
I wanted to know what Deborah Lipstadt (my brilliant prof in 1976), currently ambassador to UN had to say. In a sentence or two and not a quote - so what else is new? when has the world ever really cared about the massacre of Jews?
And, too, until now, when has the world really cared about the Palestinian people?
I dont believe I will live to see peace.

Me neither. I was born less than 3 years after WWII
Since then in no particular order Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Balkans, Falklands, Rwanda, Cyprus, Ukraine, Sri Lanka, 2 Gulf Wars.
Ireland, Isis, Syria.
And that doesn't include terrorism
scarletnoir wrote: "...He also wrote an excoriating attack on Boris Johnson for the Guardian..."
Yes, prescient. And well said, Bishop Berkeley.
Yes, prescient. And well said, Bishop Berkeley.

5. Yours truly -- fool to catch the French disease (7)

5. Yours truly -- fool to catch the French disease (7)"
I cheated so won't post up an answer even under a spoiler. 😀

And, too, until now, when has the world really cared about the Palestinian people?
I dont believe I will live to see peace..."
Good questions... I think that many individuals do care, but those with power (the politicians in the most powerful countries) indulge in short-termism and are disinclined to knock heads together in a serious attempt to force/negotiate a lasting peace settlement. IMO, the two-state solution is the only one that could work (in principle) but there is no sign that Netanyahu would contemplate it (and probably not Hamas either - not that they deserve to be considered, now).
Things have been allowed to drag on for ages, and then we get this absolutely shocking and despicable terrorist attack, followed by a remorseless and merciless response. As usual, it is civilians - especially women and children - who bear the brunt of all this, on both sides.
Will we see peace? I fear - not in my time.

I've read a few from Bitter Lemon - an usually reliable imprint for crime fiction - let me know if you come across any good ones.

Venables, a great football manager and player died a few weeks ago and it led me to hunt down one of his co-written novels from the 1970s.

I am not a big fan of crime novels but it will be interesting to read a novel influenced by one of the biggest characters in football

And, too, until now, when has the world really cared about the Palestinian people?
I dont believe I will live to see..."
Trump didnt help things with the middle east, under Obama, the preposterous corrupt Netanyahu had become less welcome with his begging bowl, where his fluent english and american accent were his main assets when visiting the USA
But Trump started to play all the cards that the right wing Israeli's love, the Jerusalem issue, the ludicrous peace deals with corrupt oil rich Gulf States and ignoring the settler issue. That set Israeli even further backwards before the run of close elections that led Netanyahu to sell his soul to the Israeli right in desperation
He has always been a third rate politician, being PM of Israel is a very tough job that combines the hard man talk of the military world, with skilled diplomacy. He failed at both but this war may give him a little more time, as he can play the narrative for his own ends and ignore the fact he was happy to use Hamas to divide the Palestinians in Gaza from the West Bank and to neutralise and humiliate Abu Mazen and the PA

5. Yours truly -- fool to catch the French disease (7)"
Perhaps (view spoiler)

I haven't been around lately as I've been rather fatigued and in a reading slump. I've livened up now however and am starting my annual read of The Hogfather followed by some ghost stories for the long dark nights.

Venables, a great football manager and player died a few weeks ago and it led me to ..."
I can remember the tv series, just.

Hope you are soon feeling fully recovered.

5. Yours truly -- fool to catch the French disease (7)"
Perhaps [spoilers removed]"
Yes!

Hope you feel better soon... the long dark nights and this shambolic Tory 'government' aren't helping, though!
I had measles in my 30s - very nasty - spent a whole day lying in bed alone, thinking I was probably going to die (my girlfriend then - and now wife since 1981 - had gone home for half term. No landline in flat, and no mobiles back in the stone age). Next day, I dragged myself across the street and 50m down Cannes' boulevard Carnot to the nearest médecine générale... the doc asked me, in French of course: "Do you work with children?" Well, d'oh! Then she gave me her diagnosis: "C'est la rougeole*!" Nasty stuff indeed.
*Fortunately, despite feeling terrible, I had the foresight to take my mini-dictionary with me to translate this.
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Here we are in December. A wet and chilly December morning here, although the temperature is supposed to be going up compared with the last few days.
As usual, happy reading to all.