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What are we reading? 4/12/2023
I lived in the DC area for more years than may be healthy. For example, that has turned me into a 'news junkie'. I get a newsletter from Heather Cox Richardson (Google for particulars), and today's was such a doozie that I've clipped a part of it - Republicans have also moved quickly to cut ties with Florida Republican Party chair Christian Ziegler, who is under police investigation for rape. Ziegler’s wife, Bridget Ziegler, co-founded Moms for Liberty, an organization that has focused on removing from schools books that they find objectionable, generally books by or about racial or ethnic minorities or LGBTQ+ people. Often Moms for Liberty members have implied, or even claimed, that those trying to protect school libraries are sexual predators or “groomers.” Ziegler herself has been active in shaping anti-LGBTQ+ policies in the state.
But the police and court documents about the case revealed that the Zieglers and the woman Ziegler allegedly raped had participated in a three-way sexual relationship in the past. The rape allegedly occurred after they had set up another encounter that Bridget could not make. The woman then canceled, telling Ziegler “I was mainly in it for her.” He went to her home anyway.
The story of a key anti-LGBTQ+ activist engaging in same-sex activity as part of a threesome sent Moms for Liberty hurrying to say that Bridget Ziegler was no longer on their board (although both Zieglers were still on their advisory board) and purge her name from their website. And though no charges have yet been filed, Florida governor Ron DeSantis has called on Christian Ziegler to resign from his position at the head of the state Republican Party.
I'm still shaking my head.
MK wrote: "The story of a key anti-LGBTQ+ activist engaging in same-sex activity as part of a threesome sent Moms for Liberty hurrying to say that Bridget Ziegler was no longer on their board (although both Zieglers were still on their advisory board) and purge her name from their website."Providing yet another reminder that I have Elmer Gantry sitting on my TBR list.
Don Juan – Lord Byron
After a Preface ridiculing Wordsworth and Southey, Canto 1 gets us off to a flying start, a romping tale of our young hero’s childhood and first love, the older Julia, with much incident, a gay humour, and delicious rhymes. Final couplet, verse 63:
What men call gallantry, and gods adultery,
Is much more common where the climate’s sultry.
It’s a three-handed game – the actors in their own voice, the narrator mostly playful and mocking, sometimes delivering sober thoughts, and the reader directly addressed and invited to make his/her own judgment.
Not much sign yet of that which later caused such a scandal, women taking the sexual initiative,. There’s a touch of it in verse 69:
Juan she saw and as a pretty child,
Caressed him often. Such a thing might be
Quite innocently done and harmless styled
When she had twenty years, and thirteen he;
But I am not so sure I should have smiled
When he was sixteen, Julia twenty-three.
These few short years make wondrous alterations,
Particularly among sunburnt nations.
A little later in verse 109 she swears to herself that she will be faithful to her husband:
And while she pondered this, besides much more,
One hand on Juan’s carelessly was thrown,
Quite by mistake – she thought it was her own.
I’m sure. But still fairly mild, I would say.
Verse 69 also illustrates how Juan has to be read in anglicized form, with two syllables, as otherwise the lines don’t scan.
The narrator says that, his poem being an epic, there must of course be a visit to the Underworld (“…Virgil…Homer… no misnomer.") This is promised for later, and seems likely to be a comic take. Verse 207:
Besides, in canto twelfth I mean to show
The very place where wicked people go.
So far, it’s much better than I remember it.
After a Preface ridiculing Wordsworth and Southey, Canto 1 gets us off to a flying start, a romping tale of our young hero’s childhood and first love, the older Julia, with much incident, a gay humour, and delicious rhymes. Final couplet, verse 63:
What men call gallantry, and gods adultery,
Is much more common where the climate’s sultry.
It’s a three-handed game – the actors in their own voice, the narrator mostly playful and mocking, sometimes delivering sober thoughts, and the reader directly addressed and invited to make his/her own judgment.
Not much sign yet of that which later caused such a scandal, women taking the sexual initiative,. There’s a touch of it in verse 69:
Juan she saw and as a pretty child,
Caressed him often. Such a thing might be
Quite innocently done and harmless styled
When she had twenty years, and thirteen he;
But I am not so sure I should have smiled
When he was sixteen, Julia twenty-three.
These few short years make wondrous alterations,
Particularly among sunburnt nations.
A little later in verse 109 she swears to herself that she will be faithful to her husband:
And while she pondered this, besides much more,
One hand on Juan’s carelessly was thrown,
Quite by mistake – she thought it was her own.
I’m sure. But still fairly mild, I would say.
Verse 69 also illustrates how Juan has to be read in anglicized form, with two syllables, as otherwise the lines don’t scan.
The narrator says that, his poem being an epic, there must of course be a visit to the Underworld (“…Virgil…Homer… no misnomer.") This is promised for later, and seems likely to be a comic take. Verse 207:
Besides, in canto twelfth I mean to show
The very place where wicked people go.
So far, it’s much better than I remember it.
Russell wrote: "Don Juan – Lord ByronAfter a Preface ridiculing Wordsworth and Southey, ..."
And Coleridge! One of my favourite bits:
Coleridge explaining metaphysics to the nation,
I wish he would explain his explanation.
"So far, it’s much better than I remember it. "
And I think it gets better as it goes along. Every time I've read it I've found the first couple of cantos the least interesting, though there are of course many great lines and passages right from the start.
giveusaclue wrote: "One bit of good news I received. The Nuffield rang yesterday and my op has been brought forward a couple of weeks to 11th January."Good news indeed - my experience of significant medical interventions is that waiting for something to be done is far more stressful than the actual events.
Bill wrote: "I have Elmer Gantry sitting on my TBR list.Tried it once and didn't like it - the 'message' was so obvious and written in undistinguished prose that I quit after 30 pages or so. If I was you, I'd stick to news coverage of the Zieglers for entertainment.
But then, I am not you - and our tastes differ significantly. You may find it brilliant!
scarletnoir wrote: "Good news indeed - my experience of significant medical interventions is that waiting for something to be done is far more stressful than the actual events"Hope that is the case scarletnoir, thanks.
I have finally finished reading
I can recommend it to anyone interested in Shakespeare's insight into the human character and in the effects of power on those who wield it. Cohen quotes Shakespeare speeches many times and relates the to modern day politicians and rulers. He refers to quite a few US presidents, Roosevelt, Kennedy and Obama. The latter I think he does not have much admiration for. Funnily enough he does not mention Biden at all, surely a case of power in incapable hands. Self-preservation?
In a further rest from crime novels I am travelling to Babylon:
the fourth book in his Alexander's Legacy. I have liked the previous ones in the series for their informative narrative and dry humour at times. Though I have to say it is a bit difficult keeping track of all the characters, the list of which takes 3 pages. I like his note next to Alexander - the cause of all the trouble!
MK wrote: "I lived in the DC area for more years than may be healthy. For example, that has turned me into a 'news junkie'. I get a newsletter from Heather Cox Richardson (Google for particulars), and today's..."its amazing that the USA has such a backwards trend in red states towards all kinds of progressive education and cultural ideals. DeSantis is basically trying to turn public education in Florida into some kind of 18th century reaction against the 21st.
Sometimes i feel that since 1776, in the aim at having the most democratic elected chambers in the world, the USA relies too much of good faith and actors in making decisions, lack of veto powers and individual state laws over federal, leaves bad actors very simple paths to change so much. Of course a right wing, catholic Supreme Court doesnt help, i say that its right wing and catholic in the saddest way possible, as religion and politics should have no say in a supreme court decision. Just the law and not the dodgy interpretation of the laws that Thomas or Alito prefer
giveusaclue wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Good news indeed - my experience of significant medical interventions is that waiting for something to be done is far more stressful than the actual events"Hope that is the ca..."
I'm pro-Biden,but am concerned about him running in 2024, in what will be far less of a front porch election than covid restrictions gave him in 2020. I am genuinely worried that Trump will get re-elected as it seems another facet of the USA constitution that unintentionally favours bad actors, is that he could be president from jail or on a suspended sentence, or he will simply pardon himself from any federal convictions, or try. I dont think he can pardon himself form state convictions.
OR, he will spend his 4 years as president, a free man, fighting and appealing 4 or 5 court cases. Only the rich and powerful can fight justice for year after year
Good news about your op. Giveusaclue. May I wish you all the best in advance. I've had major surgery myself so I am here to tell you not to worry surgeons know what they are doing and nurses are always wonderful:)
Greenfairy wrote: "Good news about your op. Giveusaclue. May I wish you all the best in advance. I've had major surgery myself so I am here to tell you not to worry surgeons know what they are doing and nurses are ..."
same here giveusaclue...all the best
Thanks everyone. Much appreciated.
Berkley wrote: "Russell wrote: "Don Juan – Lord Byron
After a Preface ridiculing Wordsworth and Southey, ..."
And Coleridge! One of my favourite bits:
Coleridge explaining metaphysics to the nation,
I wish he would explain his explanation."
Yes, poor STC, third of “the lakers”, cheerfully guyed. Thing is, I have a soft spot for him after reading the marvellous Richard Holmes biography, so gave him a pass.
After a Preface ridiculing Wordsworth and Southey, ..."
And Coleridge! One of my favourite bits:
Coleridge explaining metaphysics to the nation,
I wish he would explain his explanation."
Yes, poor STC, third of “the lakers”, cheerfully guyed. Thing is, I have a soft spot for him after reading the marvellous Richard Holmes biography, so gave him a pass.
I used to think it would be a great day if ever there were a majority of women on the US Supreme Court. Cases on education, abortion, minorities, states rights, voting rights, gun rights, etc, would take on a whole new perspective, and a lot of men accustomed to exercising power would find the Court going in a direction they do not like. Now I.am not so sure. Four more years of Trump nominating justices, men or women, is too horrible to contemplate.
giveusaclue wrote: "Thanks everyone. Much appreciated."I hope it goes well Give, and good that they moved it forward a bit. Hanging around awaiting unknown 'news' can be quite discombobulating, as I have recently found out.
I have been awaiting the results of a biopsy, on a lump in my neck, since the middle of October. As the consultant said, its either a 'fatty lump' or cancer!... I didn't like to mention it to the world in general so have told only a few people, and close family. Strangely, to me, it is far easier to tell people that I don't know, but feel some kind of kinship for, than some old friends who I have known for years.
Anyway the supposed date of when the result was due was nearly 2 weeks ago. I was discussing, with a doctor, yesterday, a completely separate problem of a thorn stuck in my ear lobe, when I peered over her shoulder at her computer, and she was reading a report from Stoke Mandeville hospital on my lump, dated 27th Nov. saying my lump had no abnormalities or worrying features, but they still want to see me on Monday. So, it's official... several weeks late... I am the proud owner of a 'fatty lump' in my neck!... and not a person with cancer... as yet...
So my advice in future is to peer over your doctors shoulder, during a consultation, at their computer screen, and read it, as you might find out something vital that nobody is telling you about..
I have been reading two books on crows. A sort of gothic horror book called 'Wakening the Crow' by Shephen Gregory which I am including here only as a warning NOT to bother if rather nasty stuff bothers a person. It styled itself as an Edgar Allen Poe type mystery. I have not read Poe but I was interested. It is nasty and pointless, to me, and with an undercurrent of incest abuse, perhaps, its vague, but maybe this is the point of horror, to shock. I don't read horror, usually, but I thought I'd give it a go, and maybe find out if I'm missing something. The story is also based on a bit of Poe's history, I don't know enough about him to know if this was meant as a sort of grim homage, or not, but I'm not going to chase it, in order to find out, but I would appreciate perhaps a lover of this genre explaining the possible upsides of this kind of book, to me, the uninitiated?
I cant help but think of AB and his dislike of 'magical realism' which personally I think is a very mixed bag, but has some wonderful flights of fancy entailed within the genre, and wonder if I'm missing out on a whole category of books, perhaps unfairly. I'm quite OK with the detective/murder/mystery category, it's the horror one I find difficult. They don't seem the same to me... Any thoughts welcome...
The second book was 'Grief Is The Thing With Feathers' by Max Porter, which was a real pleasure to me. I have a fascination for birds, and particularly birds of prey. It is a sad song of grief and recovery but so lively Krrrrk!... It is richly pungent with the smells of offal, and decay. It's a deep dive into the sights and sounds of the the blistering extremities of life lived on the edges of sanity, through loss, of both man, boys and crow. I loved it...
And just in case someone might be interested this months blog is peering into the nature of 'forgiveness' through the lens of Buddhism. It is the very first of my chapters of my, still unfinished, 'Book of Hours'. I did have some interesting thoughts about whether a verdict of cancer might have made me get on and finish it. I kind of smile here, as now I will never know... it seems... https://jediperson.wordpress.com/2023...
Tam wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Thanks everyone. Much appreciated."I hope it goes well Give, and good that they moved it forward a bit. Hanging around awaiting unknown 'news' can be quite discombobulating, a..."
so glad it wasnt the Big C
Whats the problem with horror novels Tam? I find sometimes they are far less grim than realist novels, due to the flights of fancy. Maybe you could start with some of the German romantic authors like ETA Hoffman, classic unsettling tales. (Romantic is not the same term as romance authors nowadays though- Late-stage German Romanticism emphasized the tension between the daily world and the irrational and supernatural projections of creative genius.
AB76 wrote: "(Romantic is not the same term as romance authors nowadays though- Late-stage German Romanticism emphasized the tension between the daily world and the irrational and supernatural projections of creative genius."Germans have a handy compound word for just about everything, in this case Schauerromantik. @Berkley recently mentioned Der Freischütz in the "Music" thread, and that Singspiel is usually the first work that comes to my mind when thinking of the genre. I'd also mention ballads like Goethe's "Erlkönig" and Bürger's "Leonore". The songs of composer Carl Loewe include quite a number of these horror-ballads.
Tam wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Thanks everyone. Much appreciated."I hope it goes well Give, and good that they moved it forward a bit. Hanging around awaiting unknown 'news' can be quite discombobulating, a..."
Thanks Tam, and so glad that the news on your "fatty lump" was just that. Pity you had to wait so long to find out. But I am a bit puzzled as to how you got a thorn in an ear lobe!
giveusaclue wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Good news indeed - my experience of significant medical interventions is that waiting for something to be done is far more stressful than the actual events"Hope that is the ca..."
Clue - I'm having trouble understanding your The Hollow Crown: Shakespeare on How Leaders Rise, Rule, and Fall post. What did you want to say about Biden?
By the way, the author is a neo-conservative so probably isn't a fan of any democratic politician, ever.
MK wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Good news indeed - my experience of significant medical interventions is that waiting for something to be done is far more stressful than the actual events"..."
Sorry MK I was just saying the Cohen made no comment in the book about Biden (it was published in 2022 so there was time). He barely mentioned Trump either. I wasn't actually trying to state an opinion myself.
It all started selling books online. Who knew? Today's Seattle Times has two pieces about (kinda) Amazon wealth. One is about Jeff Bezos selling one of his 4! local houses (since he is moving to Florida to be closer to his folks (don't go there)). The other is about his former wife MacKenzie Scott who managed to give away $2.1B to nonprofits (including support for Maui) quietly.Two very different approaches to wealth.
Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "(Romantic is not the same term as romance authors nowadays though- Late-stage German Romanticism emphasized the tension between the daily world and the irrational and supernatural proj..."Sehnsucht is one of my favourite german words ( Sehnsucht is a German noun translated as "longing", "desire", "yearning", or "craving".)
German writing and thinking is a treasure for me, from kant and hoffman, to Marx,Fontane, Storm and many others writing before 1900. I love german writing after 1900 but the pre two world wars era uncovers so much amazing thinking and rigour
AB76 wrote: "Sehnsucht is one of my favourite german words"Which calls to mind Goethe's (and Schubert's or Schumann's) "Nur wer die Sehnsucht kennt / Weiss, was ich leide!"
https://oxfordsong.org/song/nur-wer-d...
Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Sehnsucht is one of my favourite german words"Which calls to mind Goethe's (and Schubert's or Schumann's) "Nur wer die Sehnsucht kennt / Weiss, was ich leide!"
https://oxfordsong.or..."
oh yes.....the great sufferer Johanny G!
RIP Shane Macgowan, watched his funeral from Tipperary earlier and thought it was a very good serviceAn excellent lyricist, some of his words were poetry and a character throughout my youth. After all the comments about how bad he looked and older than his years, its sad to see he died so young, at only 65
scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "I have Elmer Gantry sitting on my TBR list.Tried it once and didn't like it - the 'message' was so obvious and written in undistinguished prose that I quit after 30 pages or so. If I..."
It was turned into a good film.
Tam wrote: "the supposed date of when the result was due was nearly 2 weeks ago."I don't think (all) medical professionals appreciate how much stress can be caused to patients who are waiting for tests and/or results!
MK wrote: "It all started selling books online. Who knew? .."Well, me for one - I started using Amazon back around 2004 to buy books I couldn't find, or simply to save time (I was still working then). The way the company expanded into all sorts of other stuff surprised me!
scarletnoir wrote: "Tam wrote: "the supposed date of when the result was due was nearly 2 weeks ago."I don't think (all) medical professionals appreciate how much stress can be caused to patients who are waiting for..."
Quite, or how often they get "lost". If waiting for test results, ring up and ask, they may have forgotten to tell you. The xray results in this hip of mine took 3 weeks to come through and then I rang them.
How about this one?25. Determined attempt to find Inspector Morse? (9)
Robert wrote: "It was turned into a good film.."I can easily believe that, and have often commented on how bad books can make for good films (or TV series) - and vice versa! I see that the film has a very high rating on Rotten Tomatoes... no idea if it has aged well: some films don't.
CCCubbon wrote: "How about this one?25. Determined attempt to find Inspector Morse? (9)"
(view spoiler)
And I didn't cheat this time so probably wrong!
AB76 wrote: "RIP Shane Macgowan, watched his funeral from Tipperary earlier and thought it was a very good serviceAn excellent lyricist, some of his words were poetry and a character throughout my youth. Afte..."
I almost saw him in a live performance he was supposed to do here in the mid-90s, forget the exact year, but it was cancelled because of some legal trouble he got into back in the UK, so he wasn't allowed to leave, or something like that.
probably we should talk about this in the music thread, but anyway, I've only come to really appreciate his work these last few years. When the Pogues first came on the scene I liked them, but at the same time I thought McGowan was trying a bit too hard to sound rough and raw in his singing style; or, to put it another way, not trying hard enough to sing - because I sensed he could sing if he wanted to. Anyway, if you or anyone wants to carry on talking about it, let's do it in the music thread.
Russell wrote: "Yes, poor STC, third of “the lakers”, cheerfully guyed. Thing is, I have a soft spot for him after reading the marvellous Richard Holmes biography, so gave him a pass."I think Byron did too, for the most part. He always rated Coleridge's poetry very highly. Any negative comments he made about the man had to do with their personal dealings - and Coleridge was notoriously hard to deal with, especially once his opium addiction got going.
MK wrote: "By the way, the author is a neo-conservative so probably isn't a fan of any democratic politician, ever."Excellent point and one I'm sure we all keep in mind when reading political texts of any kind: all too often, the author has loyalties and convictions they aren't always eager to declare up front.
I remember how appalled I was when I realised that American neo-cons were trying to co-opt things like Thucydides's History of the Peloponnesian War to justify their botched attempt to remake the Middle East in their image.
Berkley wrote: "Russell wrote: "Yes, poor STC... I have a soft spot for him..."
I think Byron did too, for the most part...."
You’ve reminded me that when Coleridge got into one of his periodic financial jams, and word got around that he was without a penny, there turned up out of the blue a banknote for £100. It had been sent by Byron. I learned this from reading Holmes.
I think Byron did too, for the most part...."
You’ve reminded me that when Coleridge got into one of his periodic financial jams, and word got around that he was without a penny, there turned up out of the blue a banknote for £100. It had been sent by Byron. I learned this from reading Holmes.
Berkley wrote: "I remember how appalled I was when I realised that American neo-cons were trying to co-opt things like Thucydides's History of the Peloponnesian War to justify their botched attempt to remake the Middle East in their image."I now have a wonderful image of Donald Trump trying to stir up the Proud Boys and their ilk... by quoting Thucydides (or some more appropriate ancient historian)! ;-)
scarletnoir wrote: "I now have a wonderful image of Donald Trump trying to stir up the Proud Boys and their ilk... by quoting Thucydides (or some more appropriate ancient historian)! ;-) "I doubt Trump or his immediate hirelings would remember ever having heard of Thucydides (assuming they must have been exposed to the name at some point in their education). I was thinking more of the Neo-Cons of Bush Jr's administration.
Berkley wrote: "AB76 wrote: "RIP Shane Macgowan, watched his funeral from Tipperary earlier and thought it was a very good serviceAn excellent lyricist, some of his words were poetry and a character throughout m..."
i was coming at this from the lyrics as poetry side of this rather than the music, hence i included it here
Berkley wrote: "MK wrote: "By the way, the author is a neo-conservative so probably isn't a fan of any democratic politician, ever."Excellent point and one I'm sure we all keep in mind when reading political tex..."
Brexit created a whole industry of dodgy right wing professors and their dodgy books, as covid created a kind of scientist that was keen to debunk every sensible public health conclusion. But they all are careful to couch what they are saying without declaring their real aims. Two name a few: Matthew Goodwin and Carl Henaghan
i blame self -publishing right wing publishing houses that have emerged, keen to release more bigotry into the atmosphere
giveusaclue wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "How about this one?25. Determined attempt to find Inspector Morse? (9)"
[spoilers removed]
And I didn't cheat this time so probably wrong!"
Yes. Thought you would like it!
scarletnoir wrote: "Tam wrote: "the supposed date of when the result was due was nearly 2 weeks ago."I don't think (all) medical professionals appreciate how much stress can be caused to patients who are waiting for..."
I don't know if this is true throughout the US, but here in techie PNW, I get to see results at least as soon as my Dr. Unfortunately, I've had a few scans lately and was subsequently able to read results online the next day and find, in the detail, that my right kidney isn't in fantastic shape. This being an add-on to the original problem/answer.
Having to wait is awful.
Mod
"probably we should talk about this in the music thread"
"i was coming at this from the lyrics as poetry side of this rather than the music, hence i included it here..."
Ah, well then 🤔 — maybe it should be in A place for a poem!
I have never seen a clear definition of the term "neocon." It exists only as a term of abuse, but isn't tied to any particular political policy or program. It may be that the author isn't quite angry enough to use the term "fascist" (a vague term in itself, as Orwell pointed out).
No one runs for office saying "I am a neocon." There was a term, "neoliberal," that may have had a similar meaning but has fallen into disuse.
Robert wrote: "I have never seen a clear definition of the term "neocon." It exists only as a term of abuse, but isn't tied to any particular political policy or program. It may be that the author isn't quite an..."
Neo-liberal still used over this side of the pond a lot Robert, i think neo-con might be popular in the USA
Since I've already bought myself a Christmas present, I'm putting this on my birthday present list - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/wo...
Berkley wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "I now have a wonderful image of Donald Trump trying to stir up the Proud Boys and their ilk... by quoting Thucydides (or some more appropriate ancient historian)! ;-) "I doubt..."
The only learned demagogue that I can remember on either side of the pond was Enoch Powell.
Tam wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Thanks everyone. Much appreciated."I hope it goes well Give, and good that they moved it forward a bit. Hanging around awaiting unknown 'news' can be quite discombobulating, a..."
I'd leave out the imitators and go to Poe. Say, The Purloined Letter, The Fall of the House of Usher, The Tell-Tale Heart, William Wilson, and his one pastoral, The Domain of Arnheim.
AB76 wrote: "Robert wrote: "I have never seen a clear definition of the term "neocon." It exists only as a term of abuse, but isn't tied to any particular political policy or program. It may be that the author..."
I've only seen "neo-con" as a vague term of abuse. What the neo-cons want to conserve, and why they are considered neo, remains a mystery.
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Ersatz TLS
Books mentioned in this topic
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Lord Cromer: Victorian Imperialist, Edwardian Proconsul (other topics)
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HHhH (other topics)
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One bit of good news I received. The Nuffield rang yesterday and my op has been brought forward a couple of weeks to 11th January.