The Will of the Many (Hierarchy #1)[April 18, 2024]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 33 (view spoiler)[And plot thickens even more! I don't recognize the name Solivagus--but a flip back to the maps shows it's the island the Academy is on. Did not even realize the Academy was on an island all by itself. Shows how well I'm reading, lol. Though looking at the maps also shows Suus is a tiny tiny island off the NE coast of the main mass--and Cymr is all the way on the other side, a large island off the SW.

Obiteum is lost. And it's leading to death. Gotta remember that... and the line about how in their search for gods they created them. So much to unpack here!

My first thought on seeing the bodies slabbed was the Sappers. Vis brushing against one, and the reaction too. And the peoples' eyes are gone, like the tutor.

The blood Vis left scattered all over the place reminds me of he strange visit by the Tertius's man--and Kadmos's certainty that nothing can be made from the specimens collected... So much certainty, almost certainly not going to be true.

How much thicker is the plot going to get before it starts bursting like a balloon? (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Rob wrote: "I'm up to chapter 35 fwiw.

Vis origin..."

Made it to (through) Chapter 35! (view spoiler)[Spot on for Vis's origin... I'm really curious about why? Why was Suus important? There was the whole bit, near the meeting with Esteban, about why Suus had to be conquered, family slaughtered, why not just make a treaty like they had in other areas? The map shows just how tiny it was... not going to be much riches there for conquering. There's got to be more angles; I'm curious how big of a twist they will end up being...

Love your list of questions, Rob! Loving that the book has so many questions--my favorite type of read.

As for tropes--tropes and cliches exist because they're so comfortable. But there's a big difference between a trope done fresh and with a unique twist, or subverted, and a trope done in a dog-tired way. This is definitely unique and fresh so far.

The conversation in Cymrian between Eidhin & Vis had me cracking up... I'm hopeful that Vis is finding his people here... Even if his goal is survival, it's clear circumstances aren't going to let him stay on that comfortable track...

Callidus's explanation of the politics--I love how logical it is, a clear consequence of the Hierarchy's system... and history, how empires expand until internal collapse. But this is an island empire--are there any other lands out there? If they exist, it doesn't seem like there's currently the technology to find them. What is Religion's plan then, for supplanting the system that Military has used so well--but to exhaustion? (hide spoiler)]

[Rob]

Nirkatze wrote: "Chapter 32 The plot, or rather the numbers, thicken...

Principalis's hint about the Labyrinth. What rules doesn't Vis know? What is he setting up? What is he setting up Vis for?

Eidhin's history..."
I keep seeing your responses and feeling like I have to bite my tongue.

Somehow staying ahead of you (3 hours of gardening with my earbuds on helps).

Up to 51
Chapter 33 (view spoiler)[Ruins! With perfectly preserved stabbed with obsidian people with eyes like Lannistia's. Good bet something happened here she doens'st remember? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 34(view spoiler)[What is Emissa up to? Does she just want to engratiate herself to the Tellimus? Does her house have plans within plans? Or is she just curious and into him? Callidus and others keep mentioning the potentiality of a civil war. Starting to think this may happen and start at the end of this book, be a lot of the next book, but we'll see. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 35 (view spoiler)[Liking his establishment of a relationship with Eihdin here. Feels like someone on the outside of things that he can trust? Maybe? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 36 (view spoiler)[This chapter just feels like oh btw Vis, you need to learn social queues on the outside of school! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 37(view spoiler)[Eeep! I did not see that coming at all. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 39 to 41 (view spoiler)[Nice plan to take a ride, get down and get back out. What is the "commandment of isolation". Get the feeling its a "this dimension is to be isolated by someone's command" and the ruins are what they left behind before something was sealed off? Original labyrinth that the school's is based on and operational. Is anyone using it too? (hide spoiler)]

I could go on but will stop there and somehow in vain try to stay ahead.

[Nirkatze]

LOL I'm eye-reading, but I'm just blazing through this... it helps that when I go out erranding, I let myself sit in the car and read a few chapters before getting out or leaving the parking lot...

Time to type up my notes! ^_^ I'm up to 60 now... I might finish today, we'll see...

re: Chapter 33--(view spoiler)[Now I'm wondering... what are the properties of obsidian? Why is it the most expensive material in the empire? Could it possibly steal memory? (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 34--(view spoiler)[I keep wondering about Emissa--actually, I wonder about ALL the students... everyone seems to have their own agendas, more than just the surface pyramid-climbing... (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 35--(view spoiler)[Fingers crossed for Eihdin too! And Callidus... all three of them have their own secrets. Hopefully they can forgive each other if it ever comes to them being able to let them out... But that will only work if their goals align... and I'm not sure Vis really has goals yet, not of his own. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 36 (view spoiler)[The way Veridas is described--the way he exudes personability, empathy... "sadly" expressing his regrets and leaning forwards, sincerity in his eyes... sounds like the same way Vis describes his own lying... I actually can't think of another book with such a physical description of lying... I rather like how Vis described it earlier, as "believing the lie" and taking his mind down he paths he would have gone if the lie had been truth... Sounds like an acting technique, honestly.

I keep thinking about the Roman culture influences... and then admiring the book design--Ionic columns, Roman numeral chapters, really puts you in the mindset before even starting. Though the Roman nomenclature doesn't hurt. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 37--(view spoiler)[No one steals from the Necropolis? And 33 is a bad luck number. Little bits of superstition seeded. I'd like to see more.

Sedotia = Ulciscor's wife!!!! What a great twist!! Clear why she thought she'd be able to arrange everything. Not clear why she recognized and found Vis in the first place, still.

Could Religion be in league with the Anguis? First time the rebels showed up, I thought they were locals, recently conquered... but it seems like they are more organized and widespread than the local barbarian population near where Vis washed up. There was something earlier... some slip by Sedotia or Melior, about information or supplies, that made it sound like they had very high connections... more than just the transport information... And that both Anguis and Religion have access to ancient tech, albeit separate kinds...

And her telling Vis to choose NOT Military--that also suggests that she could be working with one of the other pyramids... Or at least, that the Anguis's goals are aligning temporarily with theirs... is it personal for her, too? What are Sedotia's goals? What is her story?

This book is great at doling out extra layers upon layers and little twists--but also none of the gut punches have hurt so far. This has been a ton of fun, without any of the emotional pain that say, Robin Hobb would be dishing by this time. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 38--(view spoiler)[I like how Sedotia's (I can't remember other name, except starts with R... Rencia? Relcua?) anyway, her questions for her new "son" are such well veiled interrogation... "Call me R!" ie: don't you dare call me anything else... (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 41--(view spoiler)[Thanks for the reminder of those bits! I vaguely remember the bit about sealing off--and the names Lucsomething and Obsomething are making me think of Light and Darkness, Heaven and Hell--reminding me of The Justice of Kings series... More Layers! Will we be playing with gods and other realms by the end of the series? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 42--(view spoiler)[PUPPY! Makes me think of Storm in Wrath etc. Doggie better show up again!! (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 48--(view spoiler)[I love that the Fourth teacher is described as "bouncy"! I had teachers like that. Hell, I *am* a teacher like that... partly because I had teachers like that, and I loved them...

So Eihdin's past... he was on a Sapper, and he killed Praetors. The story about his family committing suicide, and him fighting... sounds like it could very well be true. So how did he end up here, and why? What is his purpose? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 49--(view spoiler)[Another oh shit moment! We're going to Suus!! (hide spoiler)]

50--(view spoiler)[Title drop! Sedotia's argument makes me think about voting... about the idea that if you don't vote, you're voting by staying silent... inaction is not neutral, it is just giving up your ability to decide...

Sedotia's hints dropped make me even more curious about each student at the school... thinking that she must have someone else on the inside, whatever Vis thinks from his earlier conversation. If they can kill one of his friends so easily--especially since his only real friends at the school, E&C, never leave the school and the hint that Vis isn't the only iron in the fire... who else might it be? Or is Sedotia truly blind on the inside, and will she end up targeting someone else, like Emissa? Someone liked, but not trusted? (hide spoiler)]

51--(view spoiler)[C&B are definitely not dating... something else going on here. Is he using her or she using him? (hide spoiler)]

Part II done! On to Part III! "In Cauda Veneum"--"the poison is in the tail." The phrase is used as a metaphor as to depict a scorpion; also to reveal an intention that is unpleasant to the ears of the receiver.

52--(view spoiler)[Tinted glasses... I love how there are all of these little details strewn around, but not really explained... like, we are told that Sextus and above all have tinted glasses, and we've seen Ulciscor's eyes go dark... but none of it has been explained. Is light a part of will-use? Or is it the other way around, chicken and egg? Makes me think of Brent Weeks's Lightbringer series.

I can see why R/Sedotia pushed this. It's another test, another trial or crucible, to mold her tool... Vis needs to be able to get past his past, to be able to play his part convincingly enough in the face of it all... his temper is a problem, his will needs to be forged.

But on the other side, he needs to be reminded of who to hate, and why. So it's both a trial for him, and poison... a gamble that could turn him into a willing ally. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 55--(view spoiler)[Emissa saying "I'm sorry"--at what? Was her almost drowning a test? Did someone put her up to this, to try to expose Vis?

Ulciscor's ultimatum... this is not a good time to be making those kinds of demands, when Vis is already on a precipice... I don't think he's going to be doing what you want in the end, dude... maybe if you'd shown some more kindness, some actual caring... (hide spoiler)]

56--(view spoiler)[oooh, that makes almost too much sense! Military is funding Anguis... if there is rebellion--secretly controllable rebellion--then Military will have to stay powerful... like enforcing curfew and deferring elections for "public safety"... And the ship--Sedotia mentioned a ship... Is this what she wanted Vis to see? That the Military he was helping was more corrupt than any of them?

The scenes with the old advisor were great. Solidifying my belief that Vis is going to have to find a third way... not U's, not R's and Anguis's, but his own way... (hide spoiler)]

58--(view spoiler)[Well. Someone knows he's from Suus now. When will that come back to bite him? Or is it a potential out--a way to make his secret not so thorny? Is the secret about him choosing Governance big enough to hold Indol in check?

Makes me think back to when Emissa said Indol wasn't interested in B--she knew he wasn't interested. Is he gay? What do gay people do in this world? Can they get married and adopt, or do they have to have wives in marriages of convenience? I want LGBT rep and questions! (hide spoiler)]

59--(view spoiler)[Well, C&B is out now, not a secret anymore. But I am wondering... when C said "it's a start"--when Vis insinuated that he was someone high's bastard--was he saying it was a start on an apology, or that it was a place for him to start digging...? I can't stop being suspicious of everyone!! (hide spoiler)]

60--(view spoiler)[ooh, that chess match was FUN! I especially like how he leveraged it both to free C... and then took her down anyway. Life lesson. This is what it feels like to be betrayed.

I have to wonder how many of the students are acting on their parent's wills, and how many on their own... who is pulling whose strings? Maybe Emissa is Principalis's creature... she did give Vis the water. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

61--(view spoiler)[Emissa's request for a promise... and Vis hating himself afterwards--makes me think of Vis's conversation with Eidhin about where to draw lines...

Wonder if Emissa will take Aeda & Belli? (hide spoiler)]

62--(view spoiler)[Was thinking this earlier, when Vis got to the north-end ruins and found the real labyrinth... but I'm betting all of this training is actually to have lab rats to toss at the labyrinth, see who can actually get through to the portal... Perhaps the real competition will be in the real labyrinth... maybe that's where the lost students really died.

The timing on the attack on Eidhin's clansfolk is similar to the timing on Vis's family. Did they both have similar knowledge?Damn, Principalis is still holding that something over Eidhin--the thing that got him to attack Callidus in the first place, I'm betting.

Well, Vis has Aeda, still thinking Emissa has Belli. Surprised she didn't ask Aeda too. (hide spoiler)]

63 (view spoiler)[Nope, Iro got Belli. Well, that puts the haters in the same camp, at least. (hide spoiler)]

65 (view spoiler)[One thing bothering me--only the Three swallows a tracking stone? What if their teammates get separated or hurt? Especially with Vis & co spending so much time separate, it doesn't seem unlikely.

And the Sextii talking about blood-taking... reminding us of that earlier scene, and the implications... maybe Principalis has known all along that Vis is the campus spy... What can they do with blood? (hide spoiler)]

66 (view spoiler)[The cloak having blood matted in a corner too... Very curious what this is all about.

Puppy's back! I'm glad it's not instalove--the alupi is acting like a wild animal still. I don't think this is the end though. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

67--(view spoiler)[Those phrases again, "traitor to the commandment of isolation.. attempted to remove the seal to Obiteum..."

Making me think of Stormlight Archive now... what if the commandment of isolation had to do with Will--maybe stopping its use? Sealing it? Like how in Stormlight (view spoiler)[it turned out that the use of spren-bonds and stormlight was somehow bringing about the cataclysms? (hide spoiler)]--maybe the use of Will was what brought on the Cataclysm--so it was sealed? Or something like that...

Why was Belli in the labyrinth? (hide spoiler)]

68--(view spoiler)[Well, this is full of theory-meat:

“Herein lies the way to Luceum and Obiteum, offered to all those who would contest our ... extinction? Know that none who accept this task may ... remain? The burden of... Togetherness? Harmony? Is reserved for the one who seals the ... authors? The authors of the war from this world. Only he may ... exceed? Exceed the hobbled capabilities of this ... duplication? He and he alone may risk… harmony… to make the great ... sacrifice?”

This is reminding me of the conversation Vis had with Eidhin--he also used the word "harmony"--describing the difference between the Hierarchy's disrespect of life despite Birthright, and his clan's reverence for it despite a tradition of suicide....

WAIT and then RU--for RUN, I'm guessing, but it also makes me think of R & U--two sides... Could it be from the blood they took? Carved from the inside, will-imbued blood? That's a creepy idea...

Speaking of R--she's got to have someone on the inside, helping with the test.... maybe the Sextii are R's Anguis helpers... and that they are helping by killing the competition... they did say something about "tonight"--and there was the blood on the cloak... By taking the tracking stone, Vis might have saved people's lives...

And yup, Diago's back again! This better not be it for him... I need my animal companion fix. (hide spoiler)]

70--(view spoiler)[Vis is thinking it's the Anguis too... and they did ask for a ship... Military also benefits--getting insight on Religion, without getting their hands dirty... but why kill the students? Make a big enough ruckus that Religion has to relinquish control of the Academy? Ah, seems like. Got that just before they said it.

So, if Emissa didn't hear that secret from Indol, how did she know? Looks suspicious. And if Indol didn't know this was the secret Vis had on him, what did he think it was, back on Suus?

Vis was wondering how he was going to keep questions away about the arm--well Ulnius did say he owed him for the collosseum. (hide spoiler)]

72 (view spoiler)[Well, lots of interesting bits here. Who is Emissa working for, then? Why is she so afraid? Why is she willing to cheat and kill--and get close to Vis, even as a Seven? I still think the most likely answer is the Principalis... And why did the triangle snap back into Vis's hand?

Well, only a couple dozen pages left, so answers should be forthcoming soon...

Also, how many chapters is it now where Vis gets knocked unconscious and then wakes up somewhere else? (hide spoiler)]

73--(view spoiler)[Hm. Vis thinks it's something to do with the labyrinth... maybe it was like going to the Aurora Column thingies? Only, instead of cedeing, maybe he's like, accessing his own will or something? I wonder what his eyes look like...

Aw, dammit! I liked Callidus. (hide spoiler)]

Ex Uno Plures: From one, many.

Finished!! (view spoiler)[Whoo! That was a LOT of fun! I like that Veridas? Veridatas? Veri... whatev, the Principalis seems to be running his own game too... I wonder how much of Religion knows? Is it all? Or just a sliver? Love that Vis chose Census... getting to work with Callidus's father... but that's going to be a Will position, won't it?

The ship--suggests that the third person to know was the Principalis... but if that's the case, why allow the attack on his students?

Split worlds, duplicating, Caeror version still existing... which world was Vis in after he went through the portal? So many questions still to explore!! (hide spoiler)]

[Thomas]

Hi All!

Still in this. I got to Chapter 43. I'm planning on putting a dent in it this evening and then completing by Wednesday.

Quick questions... how to you make [spoilers]? Where you can click and there's a reveal? Sorry I'm new to this. Some of you are taking notes each chapter! Dang good for you I need to get on that level.

The book is getting better the more I read. The first 10-15 chapters didn't "grab" me. Vis keeps digging and then some twists are turns happened and now I'm interested. The principal is the more intriguing character for me right now... I'm interested how that is going to unravel.

In the last year 8 months I have read the 4th wing books and the red rising books so I think I am just a little jaded on the young protaganist, going to a cut throat school, etc... genre. Still good, especially with the twists that have been cropping up. I'll circle back after I finish.

[Nirkatze]

Thomas wrote: "Hi All!

Still in this. I got to Chapter 43. I'm planning on putting a dent in it this evening and then completing by Wednesday.

Quick questions... how to you make [spoilers]? Where you can click..."

I'm not sure if it's possible to make spoiler tags on the app, but if you're on a computer or in a browser, you type < spoiler >stuff here< / spoiler > and just delete all those spaces. They're html open & end tags--you can also look at the little link in the upper right of the comment box that says "some html is ok" and it shows you a bunch of little html tricks you can do.

No pressure to comment every chapter! It's especially hard when doing audio--I usually only get sucked in this way when eye-reading. Really just comment when you feel you have something to say!

Totally agree on the book only continuing to get better! You've got some fun stuff coming up. Though I can also see what you mean about being saturated by the school trope. Don't read Naomi Novik's A Deadly Education series until you've recovered!

[Marie]

I really should be giving up on this one, idk how I can fit such a big eyebook in right now but well... Starting today 😁

[Rob]

Finished this morning bu read most of the last night and am trying to piece it all back together. Might need to re-read it.

(view spoiler)[Well Vis went his third way as expected. Siding with Veridas to be some sort of further chosen one to help them would have been the typical way out, I think. Still not sure where Emissa was coming from. The last chapters made it seem as if Ralucia doesn't know what she's doing either/pawn but Vis may have put himself into better alignment with her? Eihdin dropped out I guess presumably because he would have just gone for Dominicus himself and eschewed all relationships but opted to bow out rather tan put himself in that position. Feeling like the Tellimus may be far more basic players in the game the further we get into the tale and need to be brought into a new fold. Wondering if we're going to have two Vis POVs for the next book since he's in two worlds?! (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Rob wrote: "Finished this morning bu read most of the last night and am trying to piece it all back together. Might need to re-read it.

[spoilers removed]"

Ooh, interesting thought, Rob... (view spoiler)[Two Vis POVs! Or Three!! In the audiobook, one of the post-chapters has a 3-pronged spiral, and one has an ankh... I'm thinking the Ankh must be Lucideum, and the spiral Obideum or whatever they were....

I think Emissa was Veridas's person all along--probably training to go through the labyrinth. For Eidhin... I'm thinking there must be something that Veridas had on him... maybe even promised to get his people more autonomy or something... there's that whole "old problem" that Veridas promised to help him with if he threatened Callidus...

As for Belli... I'm wondering for whom she was running the labyrinth. For the Principalis? Or for another faction? There're a lot of different factions with different pieces of the puzzle and different motivations... (hide spoiler)]

[Rob]

Nirkatze wrote: "Rob wrote: "Finished this morning bu read most of the last night and am trying to piece it all back together. Might need to re-read it.

[spoilers removed]"

Ooh, interesting thought, Rob... Two Vi..."
Lots of possibilities! I am looking forward to book 2 and think those persons who wanted to avoid a reread may have had it right because there are so many permutations in this book and many possible yet-to-be-revealed mysteries it may benefit from a reread down the road.

[Nirkatze]

I embrace rereads! I am looking forward to combing through this again and catching more.

[Marie]

I only finished chapter 7 as I had little time for reading last few days. So far its pretty good. I am liking the Will system and I can't wait to learn more about it. Also it has the world build on the ruins of advanced civilisation trope which I love. Vis is pretty interesting MC to follow.

[Nirkatze]

Marie wrote: "I only finished chapter 7 as I had little time for reading last few days. So far its pretty good. I am liking the Will system and I can't wait to learn more about it. Also it has the world build on..."

I really enjoy how the world builds from here... hope you enjoy too!

[Thomas]

Finished a couple days but better late than never. The end was awesome. For me, the book was a slow to grab me, but once it did game on. I think it was when Vis finally got his crew. I'll probably read book 2 but don't know if I will read it the day it drops. Fun group read! I appreciate everyone's posts and help. Definitely will do another in the future.

(view spoiler)[ The people are copied!?!? Did not see that coming... Once the game started I didn't put the book down. Callidus was my fave. Of course Vis is going to the Censor's Office! Wish there was an easier was to communicate with your clone. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Rob]

Islington(view spoiler)[sure loves his "secret secondary realms" (hide spoiler)] Glad you enjoyed :)

I'll certainly read the second. Whether iI read it on release day or not depends on probably how excited everyone else in this group is. I'll probably pre-order it so it'll sit on my shelf. This one has been sitting on the shelf since release day.

[Nirkatze]

Really curious now about (view spoiler)[the nature of the tripled realms--have they always existed? Were they created in some kind of event? Were people copied or do they exist in all three? Will they collapse down? What happens to people whose parts are dead in some--like the little brother? They never found his body, right? So, maybe he wasn't copied... but actually travelled? (hide spoiler)]

[Marie]

I guess everyone is already done? I had to take a break to finish an ARC but now I am back to it. (It also didn't help that I got into Solo Leveling game and manhwa...) It's so readable so I think I can finish fast if I have time.

I really like how smart Vis is as a character. Like he actually thinks! I guess I followed a lot of dumb MCs lately but it's just so enjoyable to follow a character like that.

[Nirkatze]

Marie wrote: "I guess everyone is already done? I had to take a break to finish an ARC but now I am back to it. (It also didn't help that I got into Solo Leveling game and manhwa...) It's so readable so I think ..."

LOL So true! And it's nice that he thinks--but he's also not infallible. Like, most of the people are also thinking. Nice to have a smart cast.

[Marie]

25%
I prioritized other reads, and this one stayed paused for too long. I really loved it, but I will put it on hold for now and come back to it when the sequel or the whole series is out...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I should have done that, now that I've entered "Start everything and pause it until I'm in the mood Mode"... Will of the Many has/had the benefit of not having any sequels to worry about, as a time limit...

[Nirkatze]

I'm pretty sure I saw an update that the next book had been sent to the publisher for edits! The Strength of the Few will hopefully be out next year...