21st Century Literature discussion
10/23 Carpentaria
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Carpentaria - Substantive Discussion
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Stacia I think your interpretation makes sense! Especially since both Will and Norm experience her during the storm. It makes me wonder what happens to Will in the end. I assume he searches for Hope at sea, and doesn't come back, but the ending was so much, I'm not sure? When Norm and Bala (and Hope?) make it back to shore and the town is gone, I was feeling like the storm was like a cleansing and rebirth. Something about the land always being there. Did you all have interpretations of what the storm meant?
For me, the storm represented cleansing/rebirth &, like Bretnie says, the land is always there. Maybe a variation of Mother Nature wins over man. A question I have -- what meaning is there, if any, did you see as far as Angel's new life, especially since there was a scene of her fishing & catching serpents/eels given the snake/river associations in her homeland?
Stacia wrote: "Lesley wrote: "And then the last part with Norm in the boat with Hope & his grandson. I think Hope was there in spirit, as real to Norm as someone in the flesh.."Yes, it makes perfect sense that Norm would see a spirit as being as present as a living person.
Stacia wrote: "For me, the storm represented cleansing/rebirth &, like Bretnie says, the land is always there. Maybe a variation of Mother Nature wins over man. A question I have -- what meaning is there, if an..."
I saw the storm as cleansing - a catharsis & the land asserting its dominance. There seemed to be a suggestion that Norm had summoned the spirits to cause the storm. Maybe connected with avenging Elias’s death?
I think Angel is a hard character to read. The women in the story seem to be more pragmatic than the men. She is obviously used to fending for herself & will use whatever she can find to her advantage. She will take what she can from the white fella culture but she doesn’t let it subsume her. It’s interesting that she adapts the Virgin Mary statue to look like her. She doesn’t appear to have the reverence Norm does for the spirits. Where Norm’s solution is to move house, Angel’s is to try & exorcise the angry snake spirit. She is frequently described as a queen & queens bow down to very few.
Angel was quite a mystery to me. The book started with her, and then she felt like a side character for a lot of the book. But Lesley you're right she was also described as a queen! I'm imagining she got a fresh start as well - I don't know where, but I hope she is in a good place.
I had the impression that Angel was taken/trafficked and that was the reason she was living so far away. (I have already returned the book to the library so I can't look back right now to see what gave me that impression.)
Stacia wrote: "I had the impression that Angel was taken/trafficked and that was the reason she was living so far away. (I have already returned the book to the library so I can't look back right now to see what ..."Oh interesting, I missed that completely...
Stacia wrote: "I had the impression that Angel was taken/trafficked and that was the reason she was living so far away. (I have already returned the book to the library so I can't look back right now to see what ..."We don’t explicitly know what Angel’s fate was. She was being moved as part of breaking up the convoy after the sabotage of the mine - Mozzie had entrusted 3 of his crew to drive her to a southern town. The men are (temporarily) arrested. Angel ends up hitching a ride - “her fate, bizarre & twisted it seemed, had arrived out of hell, in the form of a shiny, black road train, hauled by a Mack truck. Truckies inside, of course”.
Mozzie’s men are released & arrive just too late as Angel is getting into the truck. They are insistent they see her in dreams & that she lives for decades longer - albeit “unhappily, in a devilish place”.
I feel for Angel. What a life. I can’t remember the exact phrasing but right back at the beginning of the book, there’s reference to her living out in the open with her children prior to the building of her home with Norm. She tries hard.
Catching up to this great discussion.Angel was a difficult character for me. She should have had my sympathy but it was hard to access her. I wonder if Wright did that on purpose - giving us a character that wasn't easy to warm up to.
I hadn't made the connection that Angel was trafficked, but now that you say that it makes sense. I feel like there were a lot of details I missed because they were subtle.
We've reached the 31st - thanks to everyone for a terrific discussion. I suspected this would be a wild ride when I nominated the book, but even I was surprised by how nuanced and layered it was. In many places, it's a baggy monster of a book (i.e., not my preferred taut, succinct little gem), which I thought worked to its favor as an exploration of themes like time and culture.
David wrote: "We've reached the 31st - thanks to everyone for a terrific discussion. I suspected this would be a wild ride when I nominated the book, but even I was surprised by how nuanced and layered it was. I..."Thanks for nominating it David, I appreciated the discussion as much as reading the book!
David wrote: "We've reached the 31st - thanks to everyone for a terrific discussion. I suspected this would be a wild ride when I nominated the book, but even I was surprised by how nuanced and layered it was. I..."This has been my first group read for 40 years & my first ever ‘book club’. It’s been really interesting to hear everyone’s take on the book & to take advantage of people’s research into its background.
Not a book I would have come to by myself & not an easy read. I’ll be mulling it over for some time to come.
Not a beginning, middle & end type of novel - I feel more as if I was picked up & dropped into a different world for a chunk of time. I find myself wondering what happened next & what some of the characters are doing ‘now’.
Thanks for choosing the book & hosting the discussion.
Mod
You're welcome, Bretnie. Lesley - I hope this was a worthy book for your first group read in 40 years! I agree, this is a book that benefits from discussion.Thanks, Hugh. I wasn't sure what the rules were for keeping the discussion open. Looking forward to your thoughts and anyone else's thoughts too.
Mod
I was overly ambitious trying to join in this one (I still have a lot of the book left to read), but I've enjoyed all the comments and extra background/context.
I also only finished on the 30th which left me no time to organize a coherent response on my thoughts. Basically I wanted to comment on the portrayal of Indigenous Myth and mystique (with emphasis on The Dreaming, magic, relations to nature, etc.) as shown by classic authors and filmmakers compared to more recent Indigenous authors and filmmakers, Alexis Wright, Tara June Winch, Kim Scott, Warwick Thornton to note similarities and differences but didn't have enough time. For anyone interested here is an essay by Alison Ravenscroft that touches on that subject: https://www.researchgate.net/publicat...
For films, I would suggest Nicholas Roeg's Walkabout or Fred Schepisi's Chant of Jimmy Blacksmith compared to Warwick Thornton's Samson and Delilah or Sweet Country.
Thanks David for the selection and inspiring the discussion.
Here is a piece by Mykaela Saunders that I thought was insightful: https://mykaelasaunders.files.wordpre...
Fascinating piece, David. Thanks for posting it.I continue to think of this book. And I picture living ghosts, if that idea even makes sense. (Ancestors being present.)
The plague of rats in Carpentaria has me anticipating Wright's next novel already!https://www.npr.org/2023/11/27/121502...
21st Century Literature
Books mentioned in this topic
Freshwater (other topics)Freshwater (other topics)
Galore: A Novel (other topics)
Freshwater (other topics)
Carpentaria (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Michael Crummey (other topics)Akwaeke Emezi (other topics)
Alexis Wright (other topics)
I, too, wondered about the scene with Hope. Ultimately, I decided that Will was "seeing" it but not living it in real life/real time (as we understand time in a Euro-centric world). Earlier, Norm had come to the conclusion that the boy was by himself & that his mother no longer with him. Will was looking for Hope & their son. Time across those chapters felt very fluid, backward & forward. So I ended up thinking Will probably realized or felt that Hope was dead (which ties into other discussions here about being hopeful or hopeless) & "saw" that she was dead/murdered. And then the last part with Norm in the boat with Hope & his grandson. I think Hope was there in spirit, as real to Norm as someone in the flesh. I found it fascinating how the entire book wove in the elements of those living in the earthly plane vs. those no longer there as well as the time (time full) elements, while all are present & contributing to the conversation, thoughts, & actions.
I'm not sure I'm even explaining it well, lol, so I hope this post makes sense.