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[2024] Poll 13 Voting
My husband’s family used to name their dogs for politicians. The only one I can remember is a Shar-Pei named Churchill.
Jackie wrote: "Book Concierge wrote: "Well, my niece's two dogs are named Pugsly and Wednesday ... so I might read a book with a dog in it, or a niece..... (stretching, I know but it's all in fun...)"I love peo..."
Lol! 😂
Aimee wrote: "It's similar over here (UK), most kids will take French or German at school and a growing number of schools are offering Spanish, but not to the point of fluency..."Except for Wales, I was quite surprised when we went last year how prevalent the Welsh language has become. We had one car park machine that we couldn't seem to switch to English so we just muddled through in Welsh. I grew up in Scotland, and we had Gaelic language TV but I never knew anyone that was fluent in it. It's nice that they're trying to preserve the languages, but I guess they're not as useful as learning Spanish, Arabic or Mandarin!
Tracy wrote: "Thank you Nancy and Pearl for explaining before I got a chance to. 😊Exactly my thoughts. Immigrants and children of immigrants tend to be bilingual out of necessity. For Americans who grow up spe..."
As I wrote earlier, I started learning English in third grade (now the kids start learning English in fourth grade) so I've studied English for 10 years. French, 6 years and Spanish 3 years. I believe people in Norway, Denmark, Finland and Estonia also starts learning English really early.
Edit: I googled and found that kids in Luxembourg, Norway, Italy, Malta and Spain starts learning a foreign language when they are six years old.
Ellie wrote: "Aimee wrote: "It's similar over here (UK), most kids will take French or German at school and a growing number of schools are offering Spanish, but not to the point of fluency..."Except for Wales..."
Oops sorry, my English bias is showing! You're absolutely right, the Welsh language is really flourishing, and my Scottish family (dad's side) would also want me to point out that Scots Gaelic is taught in some primary schools now.
Aimee wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Aimee wrote: "It's similar over here (UK), most kids will take French or German at school and a growing number of schools are offering Spanish, but not to the point of fluency..."Ex..."
Wonderful!
In the following European countries pupils learn at least two foreign languages: Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Poland, France, Switzerland, Slovenia, Greece, Cyprus, Croatia, Serbia, Slovakia and Romania.
Jackie wrote: "Book Concierge wrote: "Well, my niece's two dogs are named Pugsly and Wednesday ... so I might read a book with a dog in it, or a niece..... (stretching, I know but it's all in fun...)"I love people with themed dog names! My dad names all his dogs after his favorite basketball players/coaches and my husband and I have a plan to name ours after beer styles. We currently just have Porter, but future dogs could include shandy, hops, ipa, stout... "
that is cute!! "IPA" might be a tough sell. But I could see a dog named India, also Session, Amber, Raspberry, Lager, Pils, Wit, Mash (for the sour mash), Lambic, Dubble, Chocolate (stout) ... you're going to have to get a lot of dogs!!!!
My ex has a dog named Charlie and a cat named Lucy. I'm not sure what he'll do next ...
I am boring and my dogs have no theme.
Nadine in NY wrote: "Jackie wrote: "Book Concierge wrote: "Well, my niece's two dogs are named Pugsly and Wednesday ... so I might read a book with a dog in it, or a niece..... (stretching, I know but it's all in fun....."Star Trek for mine. I currently have a cat named Spock and a dog named Gabriel (for Gabriel Lorca in ST: Discovery). Others in my life have included Damar, Jean-Luc, Riker, Geordi, and Tasha. When my kids were young in Seattle in the 90s our pets were named for their favorite Mariners (baseball team): Jamie (Moyer) the dog and (Joey) Cora, the cat.
Mod
Wales is going all out to revive the Welsh language. There are even some schools that are Welsh-only, and for years even the "English" schools have taught Welsh from a youngish age.
Dixie wrote: "Star Trek for mine. I currently have a cat named Spock and a dog named Gabriel (for Gabriel Lorca in ST: Discovery). "
We have some friends in Portland OR who have a cat called Spock, as well. He even looks a bit like Leonard Nimoy.
Our two girls have Star Trek nicknames - the Tribble and T'paw (because she looked just like a Vulcan when she was younger), although that's not the names on their certificates!
Most of the Indians are multi-lingual. We learn to speak our mother tongue first (that's usually the language spoken in the state you were born in. For example, I am from state of Telangana where Telugu is spoken, so that's my mother tongue and the first language I was introduced to). We are simultaneously taught English as well because most of the schools are English medium. Sometimes kids end up learning ABC's in English before the alphabet in their mother tongue (I was one such child). At 6 odd we start learning our country's official language Hindi. If your parents belong to two different states (like mine), then you end up learning another language. For example, I am very fluent in Kannada (a language spoken in my neighboring state of Karnataka. But I do struggle to read and write in it, as I wasn't taught that language in my school). Now a days, kids also have an option of selecting a foreign language like French, Spanish, German etc.. once they reach a certain age.
How wonderful! I wish I’d had a multilingual upbringing. The most I have (besides the little Spanish I remember from school) is a few Yiddish words. The generation before mine knew much more, but they are almost gone. I’m going to miss hearing a bit of Yiddish here and there.
Trish wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Except for Wales, I was quite surprised when we went last year how prevalent the Welsh language has become. We had one car park machine that we couldn't seem to switch to English so w..."Tribble and T'paw! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Oh goodness! i love it!
Trish wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Except for Wales, I was quite surprised when we went last year how prevalent the Welsh language has become. We had one car park machine that we couldn't seem to switch to English so w..."I've forgotten the name now but there is a British/Welsh crime series that's been shown on Swedish TV - two different seasons I believe - in which they mostly speak Welsh. A great series with a great MC. And Welsh sounds so beautiful.
Someone mentioned English speaking countries besides US and UK and mentioned Canada, Australia and New Zealand. But there are a few more English-speaking countries like South Africa, Ireland, India and Jamaica so those countries must be included if there is a prompt for it. I guess there are even a couple of more small countries like Barbados and Solomon Islands and probably a few more in Africa.
And then we get into the idea of what it even means to be "an English speaking country". I checked Wikipedia to get a list, and came up with the idea that there are categories of what the means:1) Official language by law (there are 54 countries, and ironically AU, NZ, UK, and US are NOT on this list!)
2) Predominant language used by both goverenment and population, but not the "official language by law" - these are the above countries mentioned: AU, NZ, UK, US only
3) De facto language used in government and education, but not "officially language by law": 8 countries - all in Asia &/or Middle East
4) Non-sovereign entities, where English is A official language by law, but not necessarily the primary: 23 locations
+ 3 more categories.
Interestingly re: the UK and the US, "official language by law" status appears to be the right of individual regions of the country, not the country as a whole.
English is the "official language by law" in only Scotland and Wales in the UK.
English is the "official language by law" in only 31 of the 50 US states. The ones I've picked out in the US that DON'T have English as the official language by law are Connecticut, Delaware, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin. I don't see any connection between these states without doing more research. It would be interesting to know though.
This is the Wikipedia article (which does indicate that it DOES need more verification): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
Tracy wrote: "And then we get into the idea of what it even means to be "an English speaking country". I checked Wikipedia to get a list, and came up with the idea that there are categories of what the means:1..."
I meant official language. It IS weird that UK, US and the others you mentioned doesn't label English as official.
If you search Great Britain it says: Official language English. Not US, nor Australia though.
Tracy wrote: "English is the "official language by law" in only Scotland and Wales in the UK...."There are some uses of Norman French still in Westminster (UK government) so my guess is that if they were to make English official they'd have to redo those and they sound better in antiquated French? That and they'd probably take years and millions of pounds to rewrite the things. Lots of legal stuff has Latin in too.
in the USA, there have been bills and amendments trying to make English the national language. 30 states have the law stating it is the official language of that state. a couple recognize native languages (Alaska and Hawaii)i think there is something in the constitution that has to be amended for it to happen.
I took Spanish all through high school (much longer than required) and got pretty good at it, but I wouldn't have considered myself bilingual. I've lost a lot of it since then. In the US there's still a ton of stigma for speaking languages other than English. My great grandfather was an immigrant from Germany, I don't think he knew much English when he arrived. He didn't want his son, my grandfather, speaking German at all- even at home. As a result, none of his descendants speak a word of it. I'm pretty bummed that I could have been raised bilingual easily, but to assimilate, my ancestors chose to eliminate their native language.
Mod
These bills are just part of the “culture wars” in my opinion. There is no need to declare English the national language, as it is the language of business and government, and an overwhelming number of people. If that were done, states could refuse to provide information in diverse languages. I think it’s fascinating to see what languages are included in different areas of the U S in populous cities. Usually Spanish, but sometimes Chinese, Korean, etc. A big group of Bosnians settled in St Louis, so when you call some offices, Bosnian is offered as an option.
Harini wrote: "Most of the Indians are multi-lingual. We learn to speak our mother tongue first (that's usually the language spoken in the state you were born in. For example, I am from state of Telangana where T..."that's a lot of languages! How different are the languages of the different Indian states? Is it "easy" to learn another once you've learned your mother tongue? Or are they as different as English and Russian?
A lot of people see the movement to declare English the official language of the USA as a very xenophobic movement. Everyone already knows that English is the default language in the USA, no need to make a law. The selection of states that have NOT are mostly a mix of liberal and libertarian. I'm surprised California is not on the list.
Tracy wrote: "And then we get into the idea of what it even means to be "an English speaking country". I checked Wikipedia to get a list, and came up with the idea that there are categories of what the means:1..."
In the US, English-only laws are considered racist or exclusionary by many people, and just plain bad for the economy, They can be used to exclude people from participating in education, work, government agencies and services - depending on how they are administered. The IRS has instructions available in scores of different languages. We have people working (or studying) here from nearly every every country in the world, and the IRS needs that revenue. Despite what some people think, immigrants are net positive for our economy.
We have always been a nation of immigrants and we have international students at all levels. Universities particularly need them to thrive. It was a major crisis for many colleges when Trump imposed a travel ban.
Robin P wrote: "Mandy wrote: "in the USA, there have been bills and amendments trying to make English the national language. 30 states have the law stating it is the official language of that state. a couple recog..."@Robin @Nadine, I agree! We have a large group of new refugees in a neighboring town, and the school system needs more bilingual teachers. I think anyone who wants to be a teacher should learn as many languages as they can. Fortunately some of the people escaping political regimes were teachers. They can’t legally work, but they can help the kids.
I really hope the bilingual prompt gets in. I still have a lot of books with immigrants in my TBR.
Tracy wrote: "How wonderful! I wish I’d had a multilingual upbringing. The most I have (besides the little Spanish I remember from school) is a few Yiddish words. The generation before mine knew much more, but t..."I feel you on the Yiddish, Tracy. My mother, grandmother and great-grandmother spoke Yiddish when they didn't want me and my sister to understand. My sister and I know a few Yiddish words, who doesn't?, but we can't hold a conversation. Can I get my mother to teach me while she's still alive?
Well, you are ahead of me Milena. I don’t know that I ever heard a whole Yiddish conversation, just words and phrases. I don’t believe my one remaining relative who uses those speaks enough for a conversation though, so no great teaching opportunity for me. I think you should try though!
Robin P wrote: "Mandy wrote: "in the USA, there have been bills and amendments trying to make English the national language. 30 states have the law stating it is the official language of that state. a couple recog..."Yeah, there's really no reason to legally declare English as a national language - and tbh when it comes up politically it tends to stem from xenophobic and anti-immigration circles. Which I always find a little funny since English itself is also an imported language to America. Like even taking into account colonialism, there were huge swathes of the country under French and Spanish rule before the English ever got there... so in reality, English has only very recently (historically speaking) been widespread enough to be considered a lingua franca. But there are plenty of Americans who like to talk like English has been used here since the dawn of time and it's some kind of patriotic betrayal for anyone to speak a different language or not know English.
Anyway, obviously Spanish is huge, but in my area (Minnesotan here!) there's a huge community of Somali and Hmong immigrants and almost all of our major public works provide language support for them. I used to work in a hospital that made a point to have financial docs in Somali and Hmong. Minnesota actually has one of the largest Hmong immigrant populations in the country. Whereas in places like Texas or New Mexico, I'm sure it's a much higher percentage of people who speak Spanish. So it really depends on where you're at for what the next most common spoken language is after English.
Kristina wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Mandy wrote: "in the USA, there have been bills and amendments trying to make English the national language. 30 states have the law stating it is the official language of that state..."Plus America made German its official language in the 18th century. According to some accounts they only didn’t because the founding fathers couldn’t agree which form of German
Wow, never knew about the German language here Thomas.
Tracy wrote: "Wow, never knew about the German language here Thomas."I was told it by a Californian I worked with in China, I remembered because for a minute I thought he was saying Britain nearly spoke German I thought he was commenting on WW 2
Nadine in NY wrote: "Harini wrote: "Most of the Indians are multi-lingual. We learn to speak our mother tongue first (that's usually the language spoken in the state you were born in. For example, I am from state of Te..."The languages, including the script, are very different from one another. For example, हारिणि - This is my name in Hindi script, హారిణి- This is my name in Telugu script. Every language has its own script and rules. Basically, we Indians don't understand each other until we have a common language between us. That's why most of the sign boards usually have English, Hindi and the local language. Though, now a days, there is a lot of contention over Hindi being forced and given more prominence over local languages. That's a whole another topic.
Harini wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Harini wrote: "Most of the Indians are multi-lingual. We learn to speak our mother tongue first (that's usually the language spoken in the state you were born in. For example, ..."Wow this is really interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Even though Swedish is our official language there are also five official minority languages and information is always provided for the biggest immigration languages so I don't see that having an official language must be xenofobic. But you made me aware of that in the US, there are a lot of indigenous languages that should be considered official. Our five minority languages are Finnish, Meänkieli, Sami, Romani and Yiddish. I have no clue how Yiddish sounds like though. I've almost never met anyone who claimed to be Jewish. I guess that has to do with the trauma dated back to the second world war when thousands of Jewish people fled to Sweden and then became silent. They hid by not expressing their origin.
I had a friend once, we were 22 or 23 years when she one day was in a chock because she had finally been told by her mother of her secret origin ... she was Jewish and was not allowed to tell her brother yet (he was three years younger or so). It was a deep secret and sadly tainted with shame. Her grandmother had been a Jewish woman rescued by my friend's Nazi grandfather who fell in love with her and married her. The grandmother was never allowed to say that she was Jewish.
@Nike: how sad that story is.I learned Spanish as a nurse but not conversational Spanish...medical. I can read it fairly well but cannot carry on anything like a conversation.
I had two years of French in high school and have retained only a few phrases and words.
I have learned a small amount of Hebrew so I can read Hebrew prayers but I do not have any idea of grammar or conversational Hebrew.
And, now I am challenging myself to learn Scottish Gaelic. It is hard. It does not resemble the romance languages that I have acquaintance with...nor is its pronunciation instinctive to me. Still, my reading and word choice (when given options) are doing well.
Even if I do not become fluent enough in a language, I can appreciate those who are. And, learning is fun!
Bea wrote: "@Nike: how sad that story is.I learned Spanish as a nurse but not conversational Spanish...medical. I can read it fairly well but cannot carry on anything like a conversation.
I had two years of..."
Oh, how romantic and ancient Gaelic sounds. I wish you luck with your learning.
Thomas wrote: "Plus America made German its official language in the 18th century...."that's an urban legend, not truth. I think it started as a politician's "alternative fact" long long ago. For obvious reasons, it's a popular story among Europeans, especially Germans, and German teachers in the USA.
Harini wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Harini wrote: "Most of the Indians are multi-lingual. We learn to speak our mother tongue first (that's usually the language spoken in the state you were born in. For example, ..."wow I had no idea they were that different! When I was young, I thought India was this one big homogeneous country where everyone spoke Hindi and everyone was Hindu and everyone had the same cuisine. It's only in the last decade or so, after talking with various Indian coworkers, that I've realized that is far from true. And yet I still thought the different languages were close.
I think it might be the same in China, but not as many different languages?
Nike wrote: "Even though Swedish is our official language there are also five official minority languages and information is always provided for the biggest immigration languages sno I don't see that having an ..."Nike thanks for sharing that story. It’s sad that there should be shame associated with it. My grandfather hid his Native American ancestry for most of his life. I found out after his funeral. It made me sad that he felt he had to hide it. I feel proud, not ashamed.
That same summer we went to an extended family reunion of my husband’s family, and discovered that he was a descendent of someone who came over on the Mayflower (who descended from King Edward). This means that they were among the earliest English settlers of the new country. She had all the ancestry documentation. They think his mother knew all this before she died, but she didn’t give three hoots. She thought the DAR (Daughters of the American revolution) was too snooty.
So the joke was that one of his ancestors might have been at war with one of my ancestors. Each thinking that *they* were the true Americans.
NancyJ wrote: "Nike wrote: "Even though Swedish is our official language there are also five official minority languages and information is always provided for the biggest immigration languages sno I don't see th..."Wow, that's a strong story.
Jackie wrote: "Book Concierge wrote: "Well, my niece's two dogs are named Pugsly and Wednesday ... so I might read a book with a dog in it, or a niece..... (stretching, I know but it's all in fun...)"I love peo..."
My cat is just named Beer. I could have gotten more creative with it, but I thought it was hilarious when I got him.
Mod
Yiddish sounds very much like German. I think German speakers would be able to understand most of it. It was a form of low German. My father grew up speaking it but only used a few phrases later. My husband’s maternal grandparents were Catholics who came from a German-speaking part of what is now Romania. His family used a few sayings, and when I heard them, I said, “How do you know those Yiddish words?”
Robin P wrote: "Nike wrote: "Even though Swedish is our official language there are also five official minority languages and information is always provided for the biggest immigration languages so I don't see tha..."Isn't Yiddish a mixture of Polish, Hebrew and German? At least I thought so.
Harini wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Harini wrote: "Most of the Indians are multi-lingual. We learn to speak our mother tongue first (that's usually the language spoken in the state you were born in. For example, ..."That is fascinating! Thanks so much for sharing that.
Nike wrote: "Even though Swedish is our official language there are also five official minority languages and information is always provided for the biggest immigration languages so I don't see that having an o..."I don't think that having an official language is necessarily xenophobic, but in America, the push for it tends to go along with other items in a clearly xenophobic agenda.
Tracy wrote: "Well, you are ahead of me Milena. I don’t know that I ever heard a whole Yiddish conversation, just words and phrases. I don’t believe my one remaining relative who uses those speaks enough for a c..."That's because I'm first generation. It was much more common to speak Yiddish in Eastern Europe than it was once we came here. Although in Brooklyn, a lot of doctors spoke Yiddish to communicate with the recent immigrants.
Robin P wrote: "Nike wrote: "Even though Swedish is our official language there are also five official minority languages and information is always provided for the biggest immigration languages so I don't see tha..."It is very similar to German, but I am by no means an expert.
Nadine in NY wrote: "Harini wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Harini wrote: "Most of the Indians are multi-lingual. We learn to speak our mother tongue first (that's usually the language spoken in the state you were born in..."Yeah. It's the same with China as well. If I am not wrong they have around 300 odd languages too. India has around 1500, though the number is debatable. The fascinating thing I found is that the same language changes from region to region as well. My husband and I belong to two different regions of the same state and sometimes the words we use for the same objects differs vastly.
Tracy wrote: "How wonderful! I wish I’d had a multilingual upbringing. The most I have (besides the little Spanish I remember from school) is a few Yiddish words. The generation before mine knew much more, but t..."I have never heard Yiddish being spoken. I am currently learning Spanish but haven't progressed much. I have to say languages were easier to learn as a child than now as a 30 odd year old.
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
A Psalm for the Wild-Built (other topics)Dead Wrong (other topics)
Pumpkins & Poltergeists (other topics)
Happy Place (other topics)
The Addams Family: An Evilution (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Rhys Bowen (other topics)Alyssa Maxwell (other topics)
Jim Lavene (other topics)
Cleo Coyle (other topics)
Tasha Alexander (other topics)
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I love peo..."
We've named our pugs after characters from Lonesome Dove - Jake and Gus. Our Retriever/Terrier Mix is name Neyland after General Neyland of University of Tennessee Football fame.