Group Reads Discussions 2023: "Mexican Gothic" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

Some questions to get us started (but feel free to peruse the Book Club Kit for more ideas!)

1. What did you think of the setting?
2. What did you think was spookiest?
3. What worked or didn't for you?
4. Overall thoughts?

Book Club Kit: https://www.randomhousebooks.com/wp-c...

Non-spoiler thread here: First impressions

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Sorry for the delay! This is now open

[Dixie]

I did not enjoy this book. The main setting was England-transported-to-Mexico; I actually feel guilty that I also used this to fill a "read a book about Mexico" prompt for a different challenge. I thought the writing was awkward, unlike the author's Gods of Jade and Shadow which I loved. None of the characters worked for me, they all seemed superficial. And the spookiness felt forced. I recently read What Moves the Dead, a book with some similar themes, and it raised the hair on the back of my neck. This did not. And while I realize that technically it is "magical realism" it didn't feel like fantasy to me at all. Just a Gothic thriller, which for me, didn't thrill. Sorry to be a downer, clearly many people enjoy this book. For me it was a rare one-star.

[Georgann]

1. I think the author did a great job of setting the stage and the atmosphere. All the descriptions were spot on of the house and the mold, the shabbiness, and the mist. Lets the reader know right off that all is not well there.
2. The spookiest moment for me was when she first saw the mold come alive.
3. There were some dreadfully gruesome scenes that certainly repelled me. I had to take a break. Even with the TW you added, I still was not prepared.
4. As I started this, I had a few guesses as to what might be going on, but absolutely nothing I could've imagined came close to the awful truth! Whew! Ick. I didn't believe it could come to any kind of satisfactory conclusion, and worried until the very last word!

[Nicole]

1. I think the overall setting of the book was prefect for the gothic genre. You have the fog/mist, the remote and dilapidated manor, with bonus points for a cemetery on the premises. I feel like the actual location being in Mexico didn't necessarily shine through in the same way it does in some of the authors other works.
2. the bathroom scene
3. I don't know what really worked for me but I can definitely say that the characters did not. I get that they were all supposed to be horrible but even Francis, who we were supposed to like, felt underdeveloped.
4. I felt this book was a little bit predictable but I can see why this was a very popular book and I was able to lose myself in the story while reading it so overall it was good. I appreciate the not so subtle insinuation that the British imperialist were terrible for what they did to the natives of the lands they conquered and that "old money" legacy families do (and have done) horrible things to keep their power/influence/money.

[Sarah, The Unsettled]

1. What did you think of the setting?
I thought the setting was well done. Sufficiently spooky and eerie. I agree with others above that said they were a little disappointed by the English Manor in Mexico, but can also appreciate as someone else said the commentary on colonialism.

2. What did you think was spookiest?
Virgil! Creepy AF.

3. What worked or didn't for you?
The pacing I guess? I enjoyed it all the way through the halfway mark, then I caught myself tuning out or losing interest. I think when a lot of the early spooky parts are dream or sleepwalking sequences I lose interest in the story because it gets to a point where you already know what’s happening isn’t really happening? I don’t think what was actually happening was built up enough to keep me intrigued. At some point I asked myself why she was sticking around at all. Maybe I needed the relationship focused more on Catalina then Francis.

4. Overall thoughts?
I enjoyed it more than her other books but was still left wanting.

[Brett]

I get the desire to examine colonialism, but a Spanish or even a French family would have been more authentic. TBH having an English family just felt threadbare.

[Nicol]

The setting is actually based on a real town in Mexico, Real del Monte which Moreno says is nicked Little Cornwall and was a British mining town. I found that in Moreno’s notes here on GR. I think it was perfect to explore the issues and affects of colonialism. Even though I’ve personally never been there I have been to Guanajuato many times as it’s close to where my family is in Guadalajara which is a similar mining town (but bigger than this fictional town) so the setting never seemed weird to me. Also, if you read Moreno’s GR review/notes she has pretty interesting notes on mushrooms too as well as a playlist!

[Kaia]

Nicol wrote: "The setting is actually based on a real town in Mexico, Real del Monte which Moreno says is nicked Little Cornwall and was a British mining town. I found that in Moreno’s notes here on GR. I think ..."

Thanks for sharing this information, Nicol! I had no idea that the setting was based on a real town. I'll have to check out Moreno's notes. (I also love a book-inspired playlist.)

[Anna]

Everyone, have you noticed the Book Club Kit that's linked in the first post? It has the info Nicol kindly typed out, and more! :)

[WTEK]

1. What did you think of the setting?
I have to agree with Dixie on this one. I was expecting a book called Mexican Gothic to feel less like musty England transported to Mexico and more idk, Mexican? Like how Southern Gothics have the same tropes, but a decidedly Southern flavor. But seeing what Nicole said, it makes a little more sense.

2. What did you think was spookiest? Fungus that infects is one of my major fears, so basically everything lol

3. What worked or didn't for you? I think Moreno is good at writing grey protagonists and creepy horror, so that worked. The whole story as a gothic tale worked. Like I said above, I just wish it had felt like a different locale.

4. Overall thoughts? I read this a couple years ago, so my memory isn't great. I think I like it more in retrospect than I did at the time. Her descriptions were good enough that I still can picture parts in my head. To me it was like a traditional gothic meets with Heart of Darkness but told from a more modern view point.

[Lexi]

1. The description of the setting was spooky and haunting, classic Gothic lit fanfare. I agree with most everyone else that I was a bit disappointed with the lack of actual Mexican in the Gothic. When I first read it (via audiobook last year) it didn't bother me, but since then I've read similar works that do that incorperate culture and history better (The Hacienda by Isabel Canas is an instant rec from me always) so my standards since have gone up.

2. I read this last year, and so what stands out in my memory most was always the creepy old man. I'm a simple gal, creepy old man flirting with me? In a place that is already uncomfortable with no escape? Chills.

3. I thought the romance was cute, if underdeveloped. Spooky mushrooms is a theme I seem to enjoy for some reason so I had a good time with the book. I can't think of any real criticism that I haven't already mentioned.

4. When I first read this, I loved it. But thinking back, I can't remember much. I should probably give it a reread, to refresh myself, but I can't remember ever not liking something. This was my first book by this author, and I just got her newest book that I'm excited to read next week.

[Brett]

@Lexi - I second La Hacienda. It's what I wanted Mexican Gothic to be and does it better. Looking forward to her next book.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I thought this was spookier and weirder than Hacienda, though I think the author tried to walk a finer line of the history and the carnage the war caused there.

I really liked the atmosphere here, and was intrigued at the setting--I think it felt more alien because I knew it was out of place and also real. I think the story was a bit lighter than I anticipated in terms of plot points, and it was super hard to read with all the SA stuff, so I'm glad for all the warnings I had before I started reading it.

This is so far my favorite by this author, I think I'll stick to her straight up horror should I read her again. I'm still not sure what I thought of it though, it felt like there was a bit too neat or sudden a bow on a story that has such teeth--or I guess I should say such prolific spores.

[Edwin]

I finished last night and came to post my final impressions and by golly, here I find that everyone else had pretty much the same impressions that I did. I’m not sure if this is good or bad………

I too had concluded as I finished that the story was lots of gothic and not so much Mexican, at least until I read the author's comments at the end about the silver industry in Mexico and the story being based on a real British mining town. So yes, "Mexican Gothic" is a bit of a misnomer and perhaps misleading, but as a title, it IS a pretty good hook.

I also was not too enamored with the writing, which I found choppy, stilted and awkward. It did make for a relatively quick read however is certainly not fine literature.

I thought Moreno’s initial buildup was quite good, with a nice creepy sense of mystery and building tension. However, as creative as the whole mushroom horror theme was, I think she went a little bit off the rails with the whole mind control thing, and some of the crazy horror elements, at least for me, became pretty far-fetched and uncompelling, even for a horror–fantasy tale.

Finally, I found the undercurrents of violence and misogyny on the part of Virgil to be a bit disturbing and off putting.

All told however I did think it was a relatively quick and enjoyable read.

[Emily]

I liked this book for the unique concept - I had posted in the first impressions chat that I still couldn't figure out what "it" was (was thinking maybe vampires, maybe pure psychological), and boy I couldn't have guessed it! I thought the descriptions were very vivid and the author did a good job of laying out the whole history of the family through generations with noemi's dreams and the gloom. I think it's quite a feat to build that type of history in a short book. I think she could have done more with the eugenics part, which I was expecting more of, and I did keep confusing the other family members (agnes/alice/can't even remember the male characters). Overall I really liked it, especially because I love being surprised by a new concept.

[Colin]

I read this a while ago and am coming at it from the perspective of someone who doesn't read much horror, gothic or otherwise.

I thought the setting was great with the contrast of the decaying British mansion and family set in Mexico. The author's note was helpful so that I understood the historical accuracy of the setting, but I think the book would have worked-albeit in a different way- without knowing that. The mansion is very well drawn: dark, sepulchral, and full of foreboding. I think it is a tie for spookiness with the family, who become more visibly corrupt and evil as the story progresses. That family reminds me of the Heart of Darkness, with the upriver journey being into their souls. Overall, I really enjoyed this book and rate it very highly.

I suppose you could say, in the end, the evil really mushrooms. (Maybe I shouldn't say that.)

[Feliciana]

I read this a couple of years ago, but remember liking it. Similar to Colin, I also do not read a lot of horror, (I'm a scaredy cat:-)

I like that Moreno focused on the mining town instead of the agriculture haciendas typically found in Mexican-themed books. I also appreciate that she included the British, since there are a plethora of books focused on the Spanish exploitation.

I was pleasantly, (or unpleasantly surprised;) by the mushrooms. I thought the book was going to be about ghosts, demons, or a haunted house. I'm almost always happy when my predictions are wrong.

The house was spooky, and I would not like to visit. Ironically, we will be going to an old mine in Guanajuato, MX in February for a family wedding. I'll keep my eye out for some haunting mushrooms and report back;-)

[Cynda]

This is my second read if Mexican Gothic. The first time I wanted to get through book, to see what was there. Now I can go back to enjoy bits and pieces and to make connections.

[Cynda]

The narrator references The Yellow Wallpaper and Other Stories by Charlotte Perkins Gilman. Having read both literary works, I am sure that Moreno-Garcia is building up on historical experience. Sure the mold/mushroom are Gothic references to the family having its moral or ethical failings. Yet also the science/experience here is real. I suggestion watching the section. section between about 4:20 and about 17:50.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=K3Jef7i7v...

[Cynda]

The comparison between doctor/healers shows much of what kind of medical care one can get in the country or at least outside of cities in areas of that once were part of Old Mexico.

* Country Doctor who may have studied under an older, more experienced doctor.
* General Practitioner who was university educated in the scientific academic tradition but who had no specialization. Better doctors often practiced in cities.
* Local Healer/Curandera (one who heals) who learned from the previous town curandera to practice folk medicine. There were few opportunities for mestizo men to be university-educated doctors.and fewer for mestizo women. Curanderas practice holistic medicine, sharing their medicine lore and experience/wisdom.

Good world building when describing medical practitioners available.

[Cynda]

After I finish this book, I will read the booklet Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia: Conversation Starters by dailyBooks
ISBN-13: 9791220249591

I found it on Scribd. I will read there.
I also saw it at BN website https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/mexi...
The ebook there is available for 3.99USD.

I see some good study questions at back of book. I may answer some here.

[Cynda]

Slavery of indigenous was part of Mexican mining experience. The writer of The Other Slavery: The Uncovered Story of Indian Enslavement in America is where I am getting some of my ideas. My experience in and knowledge of Texas borderlands--formerly Mexican lands--shows me that indigenous and darker mixes with African and European arrivals/descendants--are usually relegated to lower social status in variety of ways. These are like the mine workers in our novel. This is the reason for talk of race study that sounds much like eugenics.

(America in the slavery book is about Mexico of the Americans--the Mexico including provinces now part of the US.)

[Brett]

@Cynda - there's a book called Uprising* (I forget the author) about the successful Native American revolt against the Spanish. It's short but interesting.

*It's unfortunately only one of many with the same title. I have it at home or I'd just go look (at work ATM).

[Cynda]

Brett if you remember a more complete title or the author's name, let me know. I have a GR friend who reads on similar topic. She and I are buddy reading the book I mentioned.

[Brett]

Cynda, Jake Page is the author (Googled it). Looks like SW Native Americans are his area.

[Cynda]

Thank you Brett. I will share this information with friend buddy reading with at our nonfiction group.

[Georgann]

@ Colin: good one!! haha! @ Feliciana: We'd better hear back from you!! Don't go wandering around in any mine shafts or crypts.

[Kirsten]

Dixie wrote: "I did not enjoy this book. The main setting was England-transported-to-Mexico; I actually feel guilty that I also used this to fill a "read a book about Mexico" prompt for a different challenge. I ..."

Wow! I loved this book SO much. It really got the gothic nature. Did you hate The Hacienda too? Are you a fan of Gone Girl?

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I LOVED it!

[Cynda]

I read the Spanish sample available from Amazon. So wanting to read the book in Spanish in the new year--I have other reading goals I may finish.

The English language translation retains some of the cadence of Spanish and the damp moldiness of the house. Yet in Spanish--ohhhh so much so does the cadence flows and the damp moldiness clings.

[E.D.]

I found the first few chapters of this book heavy going and actually considered giving up on it. I know that it's a take on 'The House of Usher' but initially it felt a bit like 'gothic by numbers', too predictable, with shallow stereotypical characters. I argued with myself over whether Noemi was too accepting of her cousin's treatment by the Doyle's, or given the social norms of her time and class, was she really a feisty and independent young woman?

Also, there is a lot of reference in this discussion to subjects such as colonialism, slavery, and exploitation. I see suggestions of these ideas in the story, but none are developed to any extent, and a deeper, and longer novel would have been needed to develop them to an interesting level (in my opinion).

However, despite these criticisms I persevered, and overall, I have to admit that I found the story more intriguing the further I read. I was a bit disappointed with the ending, although the idea of the remains of Agnes being the heart of the Gloom was original, and I was happy to see Catalina spring into life (rather murderously), I was hoping that Francis would shed his 'well intentioned but weak' persona, and be revealed as an evil mastermind working with Howard.

Cynda wrote: The English language translation retains some of the cadence of Spanish and the damp moldiness of the house. Yet in Spanish--ohhhh so much so does the cadence flows and the damp moldiness clings.

I accept that I may have missed a lot of the book's atmosphere by not being able to read it in its original.