Bright Young Things discussion
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Golden Age detectives
Wow, this sounds excellent! Will be very interested to hear what you think, Nigeyb.
^^Ooh that does sound good! Must see if library has it.Tangential question - do I remember rightly that Rex Stout is referenced in some Wodehouse stories? I know that Bertie can be found reading Edgar Wallace in some of the books, but sure I recall him reading a Rex Stout somewhere as well?
While trying (and failing!) to find out the answer to that question myself, I did come across this interesting blog on PG Wodehouse and crime fiction. Did you know that Agatha Christie dedicated the Poirot mystery 'The Hallowe'en Party' to Wodehouse? Or that he used to play cricket with Arthur Conan Doyle?
http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/...
Thanks Lori - do let us know if you get a copy. I'm inclined to set up a hot read once other BYTers have had a chance to read The Studio Crime: A Golden Age MysteryLori wrote: "Tangential question - do I remember rightly that Rex Stout is referenced in some Wodehouse stories? I know that Bertie can be found reading Edgar Wallace in some of the books, but sure I recall him reading a Rex Stout somewhere as well? "
I was not aware of the connection, but yes it is true...
Stout was a longtime friend of the British humorist P. G. Wodehouse, writer of the Jeeves novels and short stories. Each was a fan of the other's work, and there are evident parallels between their characters and techniques. Wodehouse contributed the foreword to Rex Stout: A Biography, John McAleer's Edgar Award-winning 1977 biography of the author (reissued in 2002 as Rex Stout: A Majesty's Life). It is also evident in that Wodehouse mentions Rex Stout in several of the books (as both Bertie and his Aunt Dahlia are fans.)
From the last para in the "Writings" section here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Stout
PS - I have come across a few digital versions of Rex Stout online, including The Red Box
It is in my garage somewhere. I have only just started to unpack the books. The Rubber Band/The Red Box 2-in-1
^Nigeyb - the library has The Red Box! Woohoo! I'd be happy to join in a hotread for it.
^ Great news. Let's do it. Let me know when you have a copy and are ready to read it
Found my copy. Of course, I would like to Read The Rubber Band first. But my volume has both.
I will read the first in the series instead, but join in vaguely!
I've just ordered this from the library - I also fancy starting off with the first in the series, so have ordered that one too, though they may arrive in the wrong order! They look like great fun.
Here's a discussion thread for Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe murder mysteries....https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
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Some of us are planning to read them in order.
I am diving straight in with The Red Box. So the thread above is a generic Rex Stout / Nero Wolfe murder mysteries thread.
Join in as and when.
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There's a trove of Nero Wolfe information here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_Wolfe
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^I'm very excited to have found a new author to acquaint myself with :)Changing the subject slightly, I don't know if anyone reads the Shiny New Books website/newsletter (if not, I highly recommend it) but they have a 'reprints' section in every issue. One of their recommendations this month The Golden Age of Murder by Martin Edwards.
From the review:
Martin Edwards tells the story of the Golden Age through the history of The Detection Club and the authors who founded it and were its members. It’s the story of a period of history and a group of writers that have always fascinated me.
The Detection Club was founded in 1930 by a group of writers that included Christie, Sayers and Anthony Berkeley Cox, who wrote under the names Anthony Berkeley and Francis Iles. The Club was an exclusive one. Members had to be proposed by a current member and approved by the committee. The initiation ritual, complete with members dressed in ceremonial robes and the swearing of an oath to uphold fair play in the plotting of the detective novel taken while holding a skull known as Eric, was all part of the game. The Club met for dinner and conversation several times a year in London and the meetings provided an opportunity for gossip about publishers, agents, sales, the topics that probably feature in the conversation of any group of writers. For some of the members, the Club provided an escape from the disappointments and problems of their private lives. Writing is a solitary occupation and the opportunity to talk shop with colleagues must have been another attraction.
Sounds like it could be an interesting read. Full article here:
http://shinynewbooks.co.uk/non-fictio...
Yes, I read, and loved, it Lori. It is about British crime fiction though; it centres on the Detection Club, whose founding members included Dorothy L Sayers, Agatha Christie and Anthony Berkeley.
Just popping back to this thread to say that there's a new Agatha Christie adaptation starting on TV in the UK tomorrow, 'Partners in Crime' on BBC1 - it's based on the Tommy and Tuppence books, starting with The Secret Adversary. I noticed the book at the library just now and picked it up to read!Must admit I've never been a Christie fan (sorry, Nigeyb and Susan) as I find her characters a bit boring compared to those of other Golden Age writers - but it looks as if Tommy and Tuppence might be more interesting than the other detectives of hers I've tried.
The book is set in the 20s and actually starts in the First World War with the Lusitania, but I see the series has been brought forward to the 1950s - apparently this is because she set some of the later Tommy and Tuppence stories in that era. David Walliams and Jessica Raine are the stars, so I'm guessing there will be quite a lot of humour.
^ thanks Judy, sounds promising. I'm back in the UK in a few days so will try to find it on Catch Up
I'm actually feeling a bit over-excited about this new series, so I hope I'm not disappointed on Sunday.It's the 125 year anniversary of Christie's birth in September so I think there will be more TV programmes to come, with a new adaptation of And Then There Were None later in the year.
The BBC have recently gained the rights for Agatha Christie so it will be interesting to see if they go for new versions of Miss Marple and Hercule Poirot.
I know what you mean, Ruth - I'm getting my hopes up for this one too! I've read a few pages of the book and it looks good. Nigeyb, hope you can find it on catch-up when you return.Must admit though I'd rather see some different detective stories adapted instead of even more Miss Marple and Poirot - especially if they do the same mysteries again.
I'm looking forward to this new Christie show. Who knows when it will be shown here in the States!I recently read and enjoyed The Secret Adversary. I got a free kindle edition and had no idea what it was about--I just got it because it was Agatha Christie and free. I was so surprised to open it on May 7--the exact 100 year anniversary of the sinking of the Lusitania--and find out that the book begins with the sinking! Isn't that a crazy coincidence? It wasn't the best book I've ever read, but it was enjoyable. I liked the post-Lusitania setting and the characters of Tommy and Tuppence were fun. A real change from Miss Marple and Poirot. It will be interesting to see what an updated version will look like, without the Lusitania background.
Barbara, I just found a page on agathachristie.com which says it will be shown on Acorn TV in the US on September 3 and syndicated to public stations in January - I've never heard of Acorn TV so don't know if many of you can get it!I was also really surprised to see that the book begins with the Lusitania - how amazing that you got it on the 100th anniversary!
Oddly, I have never read Tommy and Tuppence - I should really give the first book a try.
Judy wrote: "Barbara, I just found a page on agathachristie.com which says it will be shown on Acorn TV in the US on September 3 and syndicated to public stations in January - I've never heard of Acorn TV so do..."I don't get Acorn TV, so I guess I'll have to wait until
January. I'll definitely keep an eye out for it. Thanks!
I think Acorn is available on Roku. Not sure how much it costs a month (if anything - but I'm not holding my breath on that!)
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I read that, Ally and it made no sense as it was so late in the series and I didn't know the history of the characters.
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I tried it as I'd read a couple of the early ones, but it was such a huge jump. The person who nominated it - and who said it could be read out of order - then back-tracked and admitted that it really did not work unless you were familiar with the characters! It didn't help my difficulties with Allingham...
Ally, thanks for mentioning the podcast - do you know which day it was from? I do think it helps to read Allingham in order, after the first two or three where it probably doesn't matter so much. There's a lot of character development. I do love The Tiger in the Smoke.
^ And do read her brother Philip's book... Cheapjack - we have a thread
Nigeyb wrote: "^ And do read her brother Philip's book... Cheapjack - we have a thread"The word cheapjack is mentioned in The Studio Crime: A Golden Age Mystery' I thought I'd come across that word recently!
Well we watched the new Tommy and Tuppence last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm not that familiar with those particular Christie books which I think may have helped as I've read a few scathing remarks from Christie purists.But we thought it was very well done, characters, costumes, settings - loved it all!
Any one else see it? What did you think?
I quite enjoyed it and thought the costumes and settings were lovely... David Walliams is also much better in a non-comic role that I'd thought he'd be.But I'm currently reading the book and so far I like the book better - I'm also feeling a few pangs at the updating from the 1920s to the 50s, though I know they needed to pick an era for the series to avoid big jumps in time.
^ ^ Seconded. Very interesting and alluring.Traitor's Purse ...is a startlingly good book. It is taut and trim and full of delicious shocks and narrative tension. It is original and moving and amusing. How anyone, working in brief fragments of time, could imagine and hold together the world of this story and tell it infallibly at the right pace is hard to imagine. I do not know if she ever realised what she had done, although she shows intermittent signs of defending her work against critics and editors. In a review in Time & Tide in 1940, she wrote: “the thriller proper is a work of art as delicate and precise as a sonnet”. She knew what she was doing, and what her forms required. But she seems to have had no faith in anyone noticing just how complex and splendid her forms were.
Perhaps we should do Traitor's Purse for a BYT group read.
Books written at the start of WW2 when Nazi Germany seemed unstoppable have a special quality in my experience.
Who would we interested?
I love those illustrations too
This bit is wonderfully evocative...
During the first half of 1940, she (Margery Allingham) worked almost furtively on Traitor’s Purse, hiding in the garden, or secreting the manuscript in a biscuit tin during bombings. She wrote: “You’ve no idea how difficult it is to finish a modest thriller when all your neighbours are mucking about in the dawn looking for nuns with sub-machine guns and collapsible bicycles to arrive by parachute.”
Having struggled through a later Allingham The Tiger in the Smoke, which made no sense as it was so late in the series, I wouldn't join in. However, I would like to try her again one day - but from the beginning...
^ Interesting, thanks SusanHere's three GR reviews that, between them, hint of a shift in style and emphasis between the earlier books and the later ones.
This is one of the strongest of the Campion books - almost pure thriller, set on the eve of World War II. Campion wakes, not knowing anything, even himself, hears a discussion of coming murder charges, and escapes into a non-stop freefall of pretending he knows what the hell is going on, with every second person he meets expecting him to save the world from a threat he can't even remember.
An unusual entry in the entertaining Albert Campion series. As the book opens, the detective has no idea who or where he is - he just knows there's a threat and he has to get away. The wartime plot is pedestrian, but Allingham's effortlessly literary style and the amnesiac hero's very slowly dawning consciousness of the crimes being committed and planned around him make this a gripping tale reminiscent of "The 39 Steps" or even "North by Northwest."
I've read this one before but am re-reading all the Campions, out of order. This is one of the later books, and one of the better ones. I don't want to give a spoiler so let me just say that it's the one in which Campion, who is kind of a very slight, often nasty character in the earlier books kind of reappraises who he is and is sort of reborn. Interestingly, in the Campion books that followed this one, he becomes actually a minor character but the later books are actually better, with more interesting characters and descriptions and plots that really engage you. The plot on this one is a little outlandish and silly but the rest of the book overcomes the plot. Definitely worth reading.
I think Traitor's Purse sounds absolutely fascinating and, as I say above, written at a time when so much was happening, and so much was unknown, that creative juices were stimulated to sky high levels.
I'd love to join in, but would just warn that I think you need to have seen Campion as he was earlier to fully appreciate how different he is in 'Traitor's Purse' - the character does develop steadily through the series.
"Tiger in the Smoke," was a group read for another group I used to participate in. The person who recommended it insisted it made sense as a stand alone, but it didn't. Some books do, although I still prefer to read any series in order. I suspect that Campion obviously changes over time and I was utterly lost. I think, if anything, that one read helped turn me off Alligham, which I hope was not the desired intention!
Judy wrote: "I think you need to have seen Campion as he was earlier to fully appreciate how different he is in 'Traitor's Purse' - the character does develop steadily through the series."Yes, often the way with a long running series. That said, I reckon - from what I have read - that it would still may sense for a newbie but, as you suggest, I'd miss some subtleties that readers of the series would notice. Realistically though I'm unlikely to read all of the series. It takes something special to inspire that level of devotion - something with the heft of A Dance To The Music Of Time say.
Susan wrote: ""Tiger in the Smoke," was a group read for another group I used to participate in. The person who recommended it insisted it made sense as a stand alone, but it didn't."
Frustrating.
Susan wrote: "I still prefer to read any series in order."
I have noticed that Susan :-)
Does this extend into other areas of your life? I see a very orderly, organised household and a great filing system.
Susan wrote: "that one read helped turn me off Margery Allingham, which I hope was not the desired intention!"
Let's hope not.
I have always found Campion obscure and difficult. But I think when I was reading the books I didn't think about what order they might come in so reading all your comments above encourages me to have another go, but reading from the beginning.
The very first one is quite fun but very slight and quite dated, The Crime at Black Dudley - there's a different detective and Campion is a secondary character (at times a suspect)! He only becomes the central detective in the second book, Mystery Mile.
Some good info here on Campion that might help someone disinclined to read every book....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_...
Amazingly the penultimate Campion book came out last year....
Margery Allingham's Albert Campion in: Mr Campion's Farewell
Crime writer Mike Ripley recently undertook the challenge of completing an unfinished Campion manuscript, started by Philip Youngman Carter before his death.
The fragment of manuscript, which contained revisions and minor corrections but no plot outline, character synopsis or plan, was bequeathed to Margery Allingham’s sister Joyce; upon her death in 2001, the manuscript was left to officials of the Margery Allingham Society.
It was not until 2012 when Ripley, with the approval and agreement of the Margery Allingham Society, took up the challenge of completing Youngman Carter's manuscript, which has become Margery Allingham's Albert Campion in: Mr Campion's Farewell
The novel was published in March 2014 by Severn House Publishers.
I notice that another novel followed this year (2015)...
Margery Allingham's Albert Campion in Mr Campion's Fox, again by Mike Ripley
A similar thing happened with Dorothy L.Sayers. She had an unfinished Lord Peter Wimsey book that I think she'd abandoned when she decided to stop writing crime fiction.It was finished by Jill Paton Walsh afters Sayers' death. She has written another 3 books - I don't know if there are any more to come.
I read and really enjoyed A Presumption of Death which is set during the second world war and carries on Peter and Harriet's life together.
I have heard good things of the Jill Paton Walsh books, Ruth, but the Poirot one was not authentic The Monogram Murders and I wouldn't try another if the Christie estate allow Sophie Hannah to write one. I hope they don't though!
I loved the Sebastian Faulks' Jeeves and Wooster book we read recently. Great stuff.
I enjoyed The Monogram Murders although it was over-long, but it certainly wasn't Poirot! I don't think she could have ever read any Agatha Christie novels as the characters were so different. It wasn't even 'in the style of'. And also, there was nothing to carry on with for Poirot because Agatha Christie had already taken his story right up to the point when he died.
No, Sophie Hannah made no attempt whatsoever to write like Poirot - Poirot going for walks and wanting fresh air?! Never!
I downloaded the kindle sample of Traitor's Purse and it seems interesting. They included the first couple of chapters and I didn't feel at a loss because I hadn't read any previous Campions. It SEEMS like we could just jump in....Have any of you watched the BBC Campion show from 1989-90? All eight episodes are available on youtube. I thought I might watch those to "catch up" with the series. Of course, a filmed version is unlikely to be the same as reading the series, but BBC usually seems to stick pretty well with the author's intentions. I don't want to buy the whole series and my library only has a couple, so watching is the closest I'm going to get to filling in the background.
Bright Young Things
Books mentioned in this topic
Traitor's Purse (other topics)Cheapjack (other topics)
Have His Carcase (other topics)
Death of my Aunt (other topics)
Traitor's Purse (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Philip Allingham (other topics)Margery Allingham (other topics)
C.H.B. Kitchin (other topics)
Margery Allingham (other topics)
MacDonald Hastings (other topics)
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.....based on that rather marvellous review I linked to earlier, I have also downloaded a copy of Rex Stout’s....
* The Red Box *
The Red Box was the fourth of Rex Stout’s Nero Wolfe murder mysteries. It was published in 1937. While they are fine examples of golden age detective fiction the biggest attraction of the Nero Wolfe books is quite definitely Nero Wolfe himself - he is one of the most deliriously outrageous of all fictional detectives. He is so outrageous that he is in danger of self-parody but this is a danger that Stout manages to avoid.
The Red Box includes one element of which I’m extremely fond and that is found in quite a few golden age detective tales - a bizarre and outlandish murder method. There are actually three murders in the book and all three are somewhat outlandish but it’s the third that really delighted me. I’m certainly not going to spoil it but I will mention that it involves adhesive tape and as Wolfe points out it’s a remarkably economical murder method, involving an outlay of around fifteen cents.
The first of the three murders involves a box of candy. Boxes of chocolate were quite a popular way of murdering people in golden age detective stories. In this case it is fortunate that the candy selection involved did not include caramels. Had it included caramels Nero Wolfe’s task might have been made even more difficult.
Stout throws in plenty of standard crime fiction ingredients. There’s an eccentric will. There’s a mystery with its roots in the past. There’s more than one suspect with a secret to hide. The ingredients are expertly blended and the results are delicious.
Nero Wolfe is at his idiosyncratic best. This case begins with an event that is not quite unprecedented but certainly very unusual - Wolfe actually leaves his West 35th Street brownstone to visit the scene of the crime. In a nice piece of symmetry a later scene of the crime will come to visit West 35th Street.
As usual Wolfe and his indefatigable assistant Archie Goodwin will spend a good deal of time trying to avoid offering too much cooperation to the police.
Archie will also have to deal with a relapse by Wolfe, although in this case he manages to head it off before too much harm is done and too much time is lost. A great deal of beer will be consumed by Nero Wolfe. Of course we never doubt that Wolfe will solve the mystery but in order to get the necessary proof he will have to take a considerable chance, relying on an elaborate and risky bluff.
I’ve been reading the Nero Wolfe novels in sequence (in other words in publication order). I’m not sure that there’s any real necessity to read them that way. It’s more of a personal whim.
The Red Box is a treat for golden age detective fans. Highly recommended.
http://vintagepopfictions.blogspot.co...