RETIRED: The Bridge of D'Arnath Series by Carol Berg - buddy read (#4 Daughter of Ancients), June 2023)

[Choko]

This was going to be my question - how the heck did you come up with them and their world?! They are awesome!!! I love them as an idea, but I also love that they are not all just wonderful, but just as in the other words, they have all the spectrum of good to evil persons... I tend to fall in love with imperfect, clunky and grouchy characters, but you are good enough to remind us that everywhere there are those who are worthy of our love and those that just aren't... Still, they are my favorite setting in the series so far:))) I haven't been able to put the book down!!!

[Choko]

The Soul Weaver #3 ... I am in Ch. 21... (view spoiler)[ I love that we get Ven'Dar's POV! We needed to get some perspective other than our main characters'. First, I like him from his internal monologue. But second, I knew it! I felt it in the moment Karon went after Gerick with such ferver - Karon's personality is fading, leaving D'Natheil's personality to come to the front. And he hasn't been able to perform healings since Seri got hurt... This is bad, really, really bad!!! I can see how the Lords manipulated him into anger, so this would happen. They can win against D'Natheil, but not against Karon. You have to give them the respect as very crafty opponents, if nothing else... They are truly terrifying!

This also explains his bloodthirstiness and his treatment of Paolo. It's a good thing Paolo is such an intuitive and understanding soul, he will find a way to do the right thing...

I hate the condition Seri is in. What happened to her mind or her will? Is it a side effect of what happened, is it some mental battle she is waging with the Lords, or is it just taking her time to recover from the trauma? I guess we will see... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Forgot to mention, from the first several chapters, I don't trust the bodyguard and his family!!!

[Choko]

Forgot to mention, from the first several chapters, I don't trust the bodyguard and his family!!!

[Choko]

End of Ch. 21... (view spoiler)[ OMG!!!! It's Radele the bodyguard and his father who have been doing this spell, putting people in a catatonic state!!! WTH?! I am livid right now!!! (hide spoiler)]

[Carol]

Choko wrote: "This was going to be my question - how the heck did you come up with them and their world?! They are awesome!!! I love them as an idea, but I also love that they are not all just wonderful, but jus..."

Once I figured it out, they were so much fun to write. And Gerick needed them, even though he didn't know it.

[Choko]

I finished! My internet was down, so I couldn't update as I went, but I am back on line and I will try to gather my final thoughts... (view spoiler)[ So yes, Radele turned out to be as shady as we thought, even more so, since he thought he was going to outplay The Lords in their game... What surprised me was that his dad wasn't on it! I thought for sure they were working together, but it was good to see that as bigoted as the father was towards lesser magicians and humans, he was still not a murderer or a traitor...

I absolutely loved Ven'Dar from the start and Carol had me doubting myself for a second there towards the end, when he engaged in that duel with Karon... Ven'Dar is such a gentle and radiating comfort and wisdom character, I loved whenever he was on page. The "mikvah" dippings in the Seven Pools for purification scene was wonderful! For those who are not familiar with the word, mikvah is a ritual bath with full submersion in the Jewish religion, which is performed by anyone who might have become "unclean", mostly in spiritual sense, but in antiquity it was done by priests when in contact with blood, and for a long time it has been used by women after their monthly period... The Jewish tradition was actually predated by the Mesopotamians, and I don't know if it's still there, after all the bombing, but the oldest such men-made ritual bath was in Babylon. Women used to be sequestered in a women's house, and before going back among the rest of the folks, they had to cleanse themselves there... Since, you know, our blood is evil:))) No, but reading this scene really brought all that imagery to mind...

I knew, having established that Gerick is the Soul Weaver and knowing that the Dar'Nethi have the ability to capture the Soul and return it, that Karon had a plan to somehow save Gerick, and it was cool to see it play out. Of course, we as readers had all that in mind, including the several previous mentions that if you kill the vessel which someone has possessed during said possession, the possessor dies, so ours was more the pain for Seri and the gang going through it blind, rather than worry if Gerick is going to survive or not. I was sure he was coming back, I didn't think Karon was... He was ready to sacrifice himself for his son. I really felt for Roxanne and Seri though...

Paolo saved the Bonded!!! How can you not be in love with the dude?! And their origin was very cool! I am so glad that they were able to relocate them for the time when Gerick was gone, because obviously that world is dependent on Gerick himself as its creator. So happy that they are rebuilding it now! I wish Roxanne could go back there, but I guess being the lone heir to the King, she has to stay in Leira...

The Soul Weaving was only slightly explored here, mostly for Gerick to help his friends, mother and Ven'Dar to heal or free themselves. I wonder if there are other ways this could be used?

I also want to know if the Three Lords are really gone, and if yes, what happens now with their people and lands? Are the people who were under their control free from it now or is that mental damage permanent? Is there still going to be a war? (hide spoiler)]

These are my thoughts at the moment, but I am looking forward to chatting as everyone else gets to the book. Really, I am now really curious as to what the fourth and final book is going to tackle:)))

[Carol]

Oh, Choko, you have made my day. And your historical notes were wonderful. I did not do deep research on that kind of ritual, but was aware of many variations and purposes. I wanted to come up with my own that would fit the circumstances of this story, of course...and use the world's magic.

Like you, I can't wait to hear others' reactions...

And yes, Paulo. As I said, early on, he just kept slipping into the story without my planning it. I guess he had nothing better to be at... :-)

[Choko]

Thank you! Now I am taking a mental break with some fluffy reads... This is how I keep reading without getting into slumps...

Carol, when you got to this point in the story, did you plan on an extra book, or did you know pretty early it was going to be a quartet?

[Carol]

Choko wrote: "Thank you! Now I am taking a mental break with some fluffy reads... This is how I keep reading without getting into slumps...

Carol, when you got to this point in the story, did you plan on an ex..."

I was unsure. Once Song of the Beast came out, I decided to submit the D'Arnath books next. I had the first three in solid drafts and I had been playing around with the fourth one. But I had barely started Daughter - I had about the first five chapters. I wasn't sure whether it would develop into a fourth of four, or if I wanted to write it as a standalone in the same world. So I sent a proposal for only the three with the ending of Soul Weaver as the end of the series.

Penguin bought the series, and after doing all the editorial revisions and such, I started serious work on Daughter. I I was maybe a third of the way through when all of a sudden - literally a bolt from the blue - I had an insight about where the story had to lead us. And I knew it had to be the fourth of four. Gerick was only 16 in Soul Weaver. Still unfinished. One more big lesson he had to learn - which I will not spoil here! And the healing Dar'Nethi had run into a bit of a dilemma...

[Choko]

Great! I somewhat suspected that, because I think the series could be wrapped up with this ending, but it is one of those worlds where we would love to come back to for other adventures with our favorite characters... I am glad there is another book we could look forward to:)))

[Nirkatze]

Choko wrote: "I just started Book #3 The Soul Weaver ... Wow! Up to Ch. 4..."

Started yesterday...

(view spoiler)[How angry Karon is... he's really showing his D'Natheil side. That's not good... and I feel like we've been burned too often by random D'Arnathi etc showing up in Seri's life... Karon's not exactly of sound mind right now. Why are we trusting this new "bodyguard"? He seems like a jerk too. (hide spoiler)]

[Tammie]

I'm currently in chapter 3 and I agree with you Choko about the prologue. (view spoiler)[I'm thinking they can still possibly get into his mind too. (hide spoiler)] Also, in the first couple of chapters, (view spoiler)[it's so frustrating and sad that Seri hasn't been able to spend more time with Karon. And that part where she is put off by the Prince's personality that is mixed in with Karon's was interesting. I've been wondering how she would feel about that since book one (hide spoiler)].

I'm going to try and pick up my pace a little bit now that I finished one of the other books I was reading.

[Choko]

Yeah, it has to be very unsettling to know and love your husband, but he is intertwined with someone else within himself... Can you make yourself love all of "them"...? You chose the one, but not the other, no matter how they might feel about you... I don't know what I would do in her shoes...

[Carol]

Yep, as a writer, it was engrossing to imagine what Karon's situation would feel like. Gerick's, too, and he was just a kid who had never felt "normal." And then Seri, facing these situations with the person she had loved most in the world - and the son that she loved, but scarcely knew. And then knowing that the fate of everyone else might rest on these two people. I was kind of tough on her.

[Nirkatze]

Choko wrote: "The Soul Weaver #3
.. Ch. 6..."

What was (view spoiler)[Evard thinking, having the meeting at Martin's? It seems like it could be a warning, a reminder, plea, a threat.... which message are we supposed to take? Very easy to take it in a hostile way... I do like that we meet the queen though!! (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 9 (view spoiler)[I felt so disappointed in Karon when he turns and blames Gerrick... of course we the reader know that Gerrick is good in his heart, and if there's anything going on it's not his fault or not conscious... it's so sad to see his father denying him like this... but it also makes me think of people whose children commit crimes, or the few who turn into serial murderers... but you still mostly see stories of people who are either willfully blind, or who love the person and despise the crime--choosing instant death instead of investigation, or even hearing the other person's story? I blame D'Natheil... is there any Karon left in there?

And then I also have to think... Karon even has only been father to Gerrick for a few years of scattered meetings... dying before his birth, not knowing he existed... did he ever have a chance to learn him as a father, truly? Some of the mind-healing he did would have speeded up the process, but how much time does it take to create a parent-child bond? Seri feels it right away, but did Karon, truly? (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 14 (view spoiler)[The Bounded is so interesting! It's so different from what we've seen so far in the world. Guardian needs to be brought down. And I get Gerrick's knee-jerk reaction to being king, but surely he sees he has a connection to the world, beyond that of other people? Taking on the burden of King would hopefully heal him from that damage too... (hide spoiler)]

And I didn't even realize there was a whole 'nother page of comments, lol.

[Laura]

I loved the prologue of this book. It started out so strong and had that perfect Oh shit! moment at the last line.
The kind that has any reader instantly hooked.

[Laura]

Choko wrote: "I just started Book #3 The Soul Weaver ... Wow! Up to Ch. 4... ."

I was thinking exactly the same thing. (view spoiler)[ I just can't believe that Gerick is the one responsible for the death of the lady Karon was unable to save...
He had a nightmare that night and was pleading for someone to stop. My guess was that the Lords somehow got access to the palace through Gerick's thoughts? And maybe he can actually see what they are doing. After his reaction that would be my suspicion. And seeing such cruelty done to someone would drive anyone crazy. If Gerick really can see that he is probably going through hell. And I just wish someone would get through to him before he fully breaks. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Carol wrote: "Choko wrote: "The Soul Weaver #3
I guess Carol has decided to really make things worse before getting better...

Are you hearing an evil laugh somewhere? Though, honestly, I don't do it to twist ..."

Just when I think your poor characters will get a break you put them through an ever harder wringer. My heart breaks for them and I love you for it Carol!

[Laura]

Nirkatze wrote: "Choko wrote: "I just started Book #3 The Soul Weaver ... Wow! Up to Ch. 4..."

Started yesterday...

[spoilers removed]"

Exactly!!!
I wanted to smack Karon for not (view spoiler)[ explaining anything at all to Seri. He is so angry and takes decisions just like that because they think they are right when he has no idea about what his son is going through. His total disregard for Seri's feelings and lack of trust in her is pissing me off.
Especially since it was his own damn fault. Seri told him the boy still had nightmares. She asked Karon if he doesn't think it's too soon to take the boy over the bridge. He knew better and took him and look where it's gotten them.
And yes! that bodyguard does seem like a jerk!
Why the heck did Karon bring him? To spy on his son? (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

up to chapter 4

I was also wondering, (view spoiler)[ Did you all notice the boy's reaction when Seri asked him to first tell her about his trip with Karon before helping him with the task? It was like he took a step back and distanced himself from her mentally then told her only the selected few things he thought proper to share. I wonder why he had that reaction.

That boy must be having a lot weighing on his mind and heart. (hide spoiler)]

I suspected this book is one of those I won't be able to set down and it really is!
I'm getting back to reading and will open your spoilers as I go.

[Choko]

I surely couldn't put it down... :)

Carol, I think it's that complexity of emotion that makes this book special... And yes, you are very cruel to our MCs:)

[Tammie]

I'm currently in chapter 10. (view spoiler)[I'm very happy to finally get Garrik's perspective on things, and know that he didn't do it! I'm really curious about these people who have been in his dreams and what is going on with that. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze, I'm with you on thinking (view spoiler)[it's more the prince there who was going after Gerrik than Karon. Karon doesn't have that anger. I think Karon would be feeling devastated that everything he had been working for is ruined and his son could be to blame. That probably allowed the prince's personality to come out. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Chapter 5

Somebody please slap that dumbass (view spoiler)[ Radele!!

'You've trained with the masters, eh? Time to put your skills to some DECENT use.'

He makes me so angry because he knows nothing of the boy and because I am pretty sure Karon left him there to guard the world from Gerick.

That's what I suspect from his reply to Seri before they left.

And I honestly don't know how Seri can still hold it together without either breaking or slapping the shite out of almost everyone in her party.
She has way more patience and control than me.

Also, is Gerik afraid the Lord's might take control of he fights? Since he can't fight. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

My feelings exactly!!!!

[Tammie]

Laura wrote: "Chapter 5

Somebody please slap that dumbass..."



Agreed!

[Carol]

Laura wrote: "Carol wrote: "Choko wrote: "The Soul Weaver #3
I guess Carol has decided to really make things worse before getting better...
<3

[Carol]

Just sat here and read all your comments, my friends. And all I can do is smile. You are asking all the right questions...and the answers are not always the expected thing... (I feel very wicked saying that. I am really a nice person. Really. Though it was a D'Arnath book that I was working on when my youngest son flopped on the couch and asked me what I was writing. I read him an excerpt, and he said, shocked, "Mom, you are so mean!!!!")

[Carol]

Skip this for now if you don't want to know something I regret about one character in these early chapters. I don't want to interfere with the impetus of the story, so it might be better to come back, after you've finished.

(view spoiler)[I feel like I didn't put enough thought into Radele. You all hate him. I hated him. He was necessary, but I think the story would have worked better if he was more ambiguous. I was just so anxious to get to the story of Karon/D'Natheil...and Gerick...and a new person some of you have yet to meet. As a symbol of Karon's current state, he serves, but I wish he was better drawn. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Carol, I understand that, but it's easy to say that looking back... I am sure while you were writing it, you felt it was right:)

[Carol]

Choko wrote: "Carol, I understand that, but it's easy to say that looking back... I am sure while you were writing it, you felt it was right:)"

Thanks!

[Tammie]

I'm in chapter 18 now. (view spoiler)[I'm really wondering how The Bounded fits in with everything. This has gone in a direction very different from what I was expecting. I'm enjoying the parts with Garrik and Paulo. I'm so glad Paulo went with him, but poor Paulo! That beating was terrible to read. The spoiled princess is growing on me. I think she has some good ideas for helping out and Garrik should have let her help when she asked for something to do. I'm interested in seeing what happens with her character. (hide spoiler)]

[Carol]

Tammie wrote: "I'm in chapter 18 now. [spoilers removed]"

The Bounded was very fun to write, once I figured out what it was and how it figured in the story! You are very close to that point. The young lady was also a surprise!

[Laura]

GoodReads has been glitchy like hell for me in the last two days. I couldn't see the comments on the thread or comment.
Did anyone else also have this problem?

[Laura]

Up to the end of Chapter 10

So many 'Shit.' moments here if I am to quote Paulo who really has the right of it. Because really,

'Some things are not right in any circumstance, in any world.'

How easy it was for Radele to (view spoiler)[ destroy the mind of that guy! He wanted to sell them out. that is true. But still!! Where is the Dar'Nethi compassion and way of 'try to avoid doing harm at any cost'? That was such a despicable thing to do, because Radele turned himself into judge and executioner and dealt that punishment with not even a second thought. Which makes me wonder, what happened to the people Karon is supposed to lead?
They did seem to be of a more benevolent nature before, or at least abide by some rules. Or did I get that wrong? (hide spoiler)]

I did not believe it at all that it was (view spoiler)[Gerik who killed those people, despite the supposed evidence against hi. Until the time when Karon told Seri about the events which happened that night and Seri remembered that particular night Gerik had finally slept. That time doubt creeped in.
But still, I thought the Lords must have taken control of him and did those horrible things through him.

And even that way, I couldn't really believe Karon was actually contemplating killing Gerik!!

'WTF is wrong with you?! Have you gone mad?!'
That's what I would have shouted at the guy when he started going after Gerik. Because HOW CAN HE?!
That all-consuming rage is so very wrong, and I do wonder if in the end it is Karon who is actually responsible for all those deaths and not Gerik.

Because by the end of chapter 10 I am pretty sure it wasn't Gerik who did those killings. Despite being so afraid of his alter ego - the destroyer - I think he is innocent. That child has gone through so much manipulation and through so many mind games with the Lords that his strength is incredible even/especially compared to that of Karon.

plus, there is that small big detail about the thread that kept Gerik on the good side. His connection to Seri and refusal to kill her. By killing her he would have slipped completely into the dark. And now Karon is hell bent on killing Gerik. His own son.
Wouldn't that lead to the bridge falling because its guardian has been corrupted? (hide spoiler)]

I find it so ironic how the tables have turned and (view spoiler)[the boy who is supposed to be the worst kind of dark lord is doing everything in his power to not allow darkness to overcome him and keep his loved ones safe, while Karon, who is supposed to be the guardian of all that's pure and good is doing his damnedest to drive his sword into his own son's heart and allowing warriors like Radele to use methods worthy of the Zev'Nah's lords. (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Tammie wrote: "I'm currently in chapter 10. [spoilers removed]

Nirkatze, I'm with you on thinking [spoilers removed]"

I am with both of you on all of this.

(view spoiler)[I blame D'Natheil... is there any Karon left in there?

And I am also SO relieved to know Gerik was innocent in the end and it was not him!

But then there is that mention of Gerik's healing when Gerik says there were some parts he kept locked from Karon during the healing because he didn't know what unravelling them would do to him and Karon both.
So I was also wondering if the Lords got access to Karon somehow. That could explain the irrational rage. Maybe.
Or maybe I'm supposing too much again and it will all end up slapping me in the face. :D (hide spoiler)]

[Laura]

Carol wrote: "Skip this for now if you don't want to know something I regret about one character in these early chapters. I don't want to interfere with the impetus of the story, so it might be better to come ba..."

At the moment, I honestly dislike (view spoiler)[Karon more than Radele because I blame Karon for Radele's actions. Though I am curious to see how their arcs will unfold. (hide spoiler)]

[Tammie]

Laura wrote: "Carol wrote: "Skip this for now if you don't want to know something I regret about one character in these early chapters. I don't want to interfere with the impetus of the story, so it might be bet..."

Yeah I agree with you Laura. (view spoiler)[ I dislike Karon a lot right now. I have to keep reminding myself that it isn't really Karon but D'Natheil. I'm also wondering what has happened to the Karon's people that they are behaving this way. (hide spoiler)]

[Tammie]

I'm in chapter 25 and some things have started to make sense now. (view spoiler)[I kept thinking Gerick must have created the Bounded when he went through the bridge.

I can't believe it really was Gerick who killed those people and stabbed his mother. Obviously, he didn't do it consciously, so the question remains if the Lords were controlling him or something else happened. It was so frustrating that the story cuts back over to other people after that revelation!

I'm loving Ven'Dar. I also knew that Gerick must be possessing Paulo during part of the prison time. And now I know why the book is titled Soul Weaver. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Choko wrote: "Carol, I understand that, but it's easy to say that looking back... I am sure while you were writing it, you felt it was right:)"

Dittoing Choko--and (view spoiler)[it's always fun for readers to have someone they can rail at and hate on unapologetically too. So I don't think there's any wrong choices here either. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Tammie wrote: "I'm in chapter 25..."

Really like your theory, Tammie...

[Nirkatze]

I just gobbled up the rest of the book. I love rereading these so much.

One question--(view spoiler)[the scene where Karon undergoes the purification ritual in the different pools reminded me a lot of the pool ritual with Seyonne and his mentor in ... I think Revelation? And also Valen's pool in the Lighthouse Duet. Is this a conscious motif, or did the stories just come out this way? (hide spoiler)]

[Carol]

Nirkatze wrote: "I just gobbled up the rest of the book. I love rereading these so much.

One question--[spoilers removed]"
Oh, this is interesting. I really never thought of this connection! Doh!
(view spoiler)[And yet, the nature of the pools is very different. These pools exist serve one purpose only - to enable personal clarity. In the Rai-kirah books, the hot pool is not magical in nature. It is a natural just hot spring (and it could be any similar natural pool.). It is just hot enough that one can survive immersion without magic, but only for a few seconds. Seyonne uses it as a simple test of his ability to access his own magic. In the Lighthouse books, Valen's pool (Clyste's Well) is indeed a "magical" or "sacred" place, but is more a feature of the natural world, linking Aeginea to the mundane earth. The Plain, the Mountain, and the Sea are other such places, so it isn't really made special by the water.

But yeah, I guess I have a thing about water. Caught me!

(hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Hahaha! I am looking forward to getting to those books:)

[Tammie]

Choko wrote: "I finished! My internet was down, so I couldn't update as I went, but I am back on line and I will try to gather my final thoughts... So yes, Radele turned out to be as shady as we thought, even m..."

I finished last night and wanted to say pretty much everything you said here Choko. I thoroughly enjoyed this book. (view spoiler)[I was very surprised when Karon came back at the end. It was such a nice surprise, and the way things ended up for them was what I've been wanting. After all the terrible things they went through it was so nice to get to a truly happy part. For a while there I was thinking nothing good was ever going to happen for them.

I was so shocked at the part when Ven'Dar and Karon ended up fighting and what led up to it. I just couldn't believe that Ven'dar would be that kind of person and was so relieved to know that he wasn't.

I loved so many characters in this book. Ven'Dar, Paulo, Roxanne were all great supporting characters that made the book really work for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Tammy and Nirkatze, I agree! And I really would like to see Roxanne in the next book! I hope it's about her...

[Carol]

Choko wrote: "Hahaha! I am looking forward to getting to those books:)"

If you haven't read them, then you must forget everything I said!!!

[Carol]

This is so much fun. It brings back the joy of writing these stories. So I thank you, Laura, and all the rest of you!

[Choko]

I haven't, but I have no idea what you are talking about, so nothing to forget really:)))

[Nirkatze]

Carol wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "I just gobbled up the rest of the book. I love rereading these so much.

One question--[spoilers removed]"
Oh, this is interesting. I really never thought of this connection! Doh!
..."

Thank you very much for answering! It is really interesting to see the analysis from the creator's POV...