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Dombey and Son
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Archived Group Reads 2023 > Dombey and Son - Week 1 - Chapters I - V

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message 1: by Cindy, Moderator (last edited Apr 03, 2023 09:12PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Welcome to Week 1 of Dombey and Son, Victorians! I am a devoted Dickens fan and am looking forward to some great discussions over the coming weeks.

Summary:

We are introduced to our two title characters in the first sentence. Dombey is 48 years old, while Dombey, Jr. is 48 minutes of age. There follows a delightful juxtaposition of their appearances with both of them serving as canvases for the artwork of Time. The first sentence uttered by Dombey that we are privy to on this propitious occasion is focused on how it affects his business, as he exults that it will again “be not only in name but in fact Dombey and Son” (1). The mother of the child has no input on the baby’s name as “he will be christened Paul . . . of course . . . his father’s name, Mrs. Dombey, and his grandfather’s!” (1-2).

In the next paragraph, Dickens wastes no time in enlightening us on the level of self-absorption to be found in our title character: “The earth was made for Dombey and Son to trade in, and the sun and moon were made to give them light. Rivers and seas were formed to float their ships; rainbows gave them promise of fair weather; winds blew for or against their enterprises; stars and planets circled in their orbits, to preserve inviolate a system of which they were the centre” (2). Dombey may be a middle-class tradesman, but he can rival kings when it comes to arrogance, apparently!

Although Dombey assumes that “a matrimonial alliance with himself must, in the nature of things, be gratifying and honorable to any woman of common sense,” we learn that Mrs. Dombey has apparently suffered a broken heart from which she never recovers, leaving her indifferent to whom she marries and “content to bind her broken spirit to the dutiful and meek endurance of the present” (2). Dombey notices nothing lacking in his wife’s spirit and believes that of course she must be happy–”she couldn’t help it.”

The only real fault Dombey has to find with his wife is her inability to provide him with an heir. Yes, she did produce a daughter a few years back, but she wasn’t worth mentioning. To her father, the child is not a girl–she’s a failed attempt at a boy. The daughter, Florence, is extremely attached to her mother and seems to sense the danger to her mother’s existence more than the woman’s husband, whose focus remains on his newborn son. He considers Mrs. Dombey’s lack of resilience after the birth as a “very ill-advised and feverish business” and is annoyed at having to ask the doctor to examine her again.

Comic relief alert! In leaving the dire scene above stairs, we are introduced to that paragon of physicians, Dr. Parker Peps, whose name-dropping skills are hilarious. Assisting him with an obsequiousness reminiscent of Mr. Collins at his best is the local practitioner, Mr. Pilkins. This gentleman is thrilled to have been allowed the honor of entrance into the rarified strata of Dr. Peps’ presence.

The humor remains as we are introduced to another Dombey: Luisa Dombey Chick, the sister of the new father. Accompanying her for emotional support is her dear friend, Miss Tox. Louisa is overcome with the “Dombeyness” of the new baby and dismissive of any fears for the mother’s recovery. After all, it was her duty to survive and take care of the new heir! Any other outcome is unacceptable. Miss Tox is a lady living in straitened circumstances. This difficulty has resulted in “a long habit of listening admirably to everything that was said in her presence, and looking at the speakers as if she were mentally engaged in taking off impressions of their images upon her soul, never to part with the same but with life, her head quite settled on one side. Her hands had contracted a spasmodic habit of raising themselves of their own accord as in involuntary admiration. Her eyes were liable to a similar affection” (6). Miss Tox’s presentation of her gift for the new baby is interrupted when Mr. Dombey is summoned by the doctor, After his departure, the conversation between Louisa and her friend sounds remarkably like Louisa introducing Miss Tox to her brother as a potential match and I wondered about foreshadowing. Will Louisa try to promote a marriage between her brother and Miss Tox if Mrs. Dombey dies?

When it is revealed that Mrs. Dombey is indeed dying, Louisa decides to put a stop to this nonsense once and for all. She sails upstairs to find Florence still embracing her motionless mother and sets to reviving that unfortunate woman. To her amazement, Mrs. Dombey does not respond to brisk commands to make an effort and rouse herself. The only thing the poor woman does respond to is her daughter’s voice, but that is a brief moment before she slips away forever.

As the family prepares for the funeral and the mourning period, we meet Mr. Chick. All we really learn of him at this point is that, although he appears singularly foolish, he is apparently able to hold his own with his opinionated wife and often emerges victorious from their domestic squabbles.

The urgent problem confronting the family is the care of the new baby. A wet nurse is desperately needed for the infant, and Miss Tox comes to the rescue. She produces not just the prospective nurse, but her entire family. The Toodles family, consisting of parents, sister, and five children, are all plump, rosy, and apple-cheeked. Mr. Dombey interviews the woman and her husband and after changing her name from Toodles to Richards, and establishing that she will not form any emotional attachments to her nurseling, he agrees to hire her. After an emotional scene complete with tears and tantrums, Polly Toodles (now Richards) bids her family goodbye and assumes her new place in the Dombey household.

The diction used to describe Mr. Dombey’s house consists of words like “dismal,” “gaunt,” “dark,” “ghastly,” and “grim.” Anyone surprised by this? Richards is having to acclimate herself to this “dreary” new environment, broken only by “melancholy” strolls through the gardens, accompanied by Mrs. Chick and Miss Tox. How she must miss her lively apple-cheeked family! Richards unexpectedly meets young Florence and is filled with compassion for the grieving child. They quickly bond and as she is comforting the girl, the child’s nurse appears at the door. Although hostile at first, the nurse, Susan Nipper (aka Spitfire), becomes more friendly and Richards learns of Mr. Dombey’s shocking lack of interest in his oldest child simply because of her gender.

When Mr. Dombey progresses from watching his son’s walks with Richards from a window (kind of creepy) to venturing into the gardens to meet up with them during these strolls, the nurse is emboldened to suggest that Florence be allowed to visit with her brother. Mr. Dombey agrees, more for his son’s sake than Florence’s, and is disconcerted when Richards asks that she join them immediately. Mr. Dombey has not even seen Florence since the night of his wife’s death. She doesn’t fit into his plans, so he prefers to pretend she doesn’t exist. When little Florence appears, the narration is heart-wrenching. The child longs desperately for comfort and affection from her father, but he perceives none of that. He is awkward and uncomfortable around her, and this manifests in cold abruptness. Richards triumphs in having freed Florence to spend time with little Paul and herself.

In Chapter IV, we leave the Dombey household for a short while to venture into London, to the shop of a nautical instrument maker named Solomon Gills. He lives with his 14-year-old nephew, Walter, in the shop where he produces chronometers, barometers, telescopes, compasses, and other nautical necessities. We meet them right at dinnertime, as Walter returns home from his first day at his new job, which happens to be at the offices of Dombey and Son. Young Walter seems singularly unimpressed by the magnificence of Mr. Dombey. Sol toasts his nephew’s new career and future success with a glass of their prized Madeira, and the ensuing conversation reveals that the shop is foundering financially. He is relieved that Walter has found steady employment, secretly fearing that the boy will run off to sea in search of adventure.

A gentleman interrupts their celebration at this point–a man with a hook for a hand, bushy black eyebrows, and a knobby nose. The new arrival is Captain Cuttle, not Captain Hook (as you might have thought, at first). Marrying the daughter of one’s master is brought up in jest, at which point Walter reveals that Dombey does indeed have a daughter and how she is treated. This leads to good-natured ribbing about Walter’s prospects with this young lady later in life and they end by toasting Dombey, his son, and his daughter. Could this be foreshadowing?

The final chapter this week brings us to baby Paul’s christening. Miss Tox has become very attached to the family, to the point that Mr. Dombey ponders rewarding her attentions with a token because she “understands her position so thoroughly” (44). To Mr. Dombey, people “only achieved that mighty piece of knowledge, the understanding of their own position, who showed a fitting reverence for his. It was not so much their merit that they knew themselves, as they knew him, and bowed low before him” (45). Encouraged, Mrs. Chick ventures to suggest Miss Tox as godmother to the infant. Mr. Dombey, after a speech in which he rejects the notion of himself or his son needing anyone else in their lives, accepts the idea. It is a way to reward Miss Tox’s devotion without having to worry that someone more effectual would attempt to influence his son’s life.

Mrs. Chick and Miss Tox are having tea in the nursery with the sleeping children nearby, discussing the many deficiencies of little Florence. Her Dombeyness score is low, the child having a regrettable tendency to take after her mother. How can one expect a father to love such a child, after all? After delivering these strictures on her little niece, Mrs. Chick is overcome with how much she loved her deceased sister-in-law. Mrs. Chick is too preoccupied with her own crocodile tears to notice those of Florence, who has awakened and, no doubt, overheard her aunt’s disparaging remarks. The girl begs to lie by her brother, the only family member that she believes loves her.

The day of the christening dawns, hard and cold. The imagery throughout the day, from the Dombey house to the event at the church and back, is overwhelmingly cold and bleak. Rather than describe it (there’s way too much of it to do that!) I would love to hear thoughts on what Dickens’ purpose could have been in emphasizing this element so relentlessly throughout.

We end with Mr. Dombey rewarding Richards’ performance by securing a position for her eldest son at a school called The Charitable Grinders. The Dombeys seem very proud of themselves for this magnificent gesture. Richards expresses her gratitude but seems less than enthusiastic about the gift, especially the uniform her son will be required to wear. She and Susan decide that, with the absence of Mrs. Chick and Miss Tox, their next airing of the children will take them in the direction of the Toodles’ home.


message 2: by Cindy, Moderator (last edited Apr 03, 2023 06:57PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Here are some questions to get the discussion started:

1. Mr. Dombey is presented as incredibly arrogant, and his misogyny is excessive, even for the time period. However, we are also given nuances in his description that might give us pause. What are your thoughts on these nuances?
2. Is there another character that really caught your fancy? Is there a detail or sentence in their description that resonates with you in some way?
3. There are quite a few references to time in these chapters, often in the form of time-keeping devices, such as watches, clocks, etc. Any thoughts on the significance of this (especially given the references to the impending railroad and other technological developments in society at that time)?
4. What could possibly be the reason for Mr. Dombey’s request to change Polly Toodle’s name to Richards?
5. Chapter II ends with the extreme grief of the Toodles’ family at parting with their matriarch. Contrast that with the reactions of Mrs. Dombey’s family at her death at the end of Chapter I. Are these different reactions related to class, or is it more about the personalities of the participants?
6. The Toodles children are given oranges and halfpence to help assuage their sorrow, but during their ride home, oranges and halfpence were dropped from the carriage window all along the way. Could this have been accidental, a result of children playing, or is the action more symbolic than that?
7. We have seen references to the new railroad and the technological progress happening in society at this time. In Chapter VI, Sol Gills reflects on his failing business and his increasing age, opining that he is a relict and the world has passed him by. What do you think is the author’s purpose with this thematic idea?
8. Why do you think Richards is so disconcerted by her son’s enrollment into this school?
9. I posed the question in the summary, but for the sake of organization, I’ll include it here, as well. What is the purpose of the frigid imagery throughout the event of the baby’s christening?

So what do you think so far? What are things about the reading that you like? Dislike? Please respond to any (or none!) of these questions at whatever length you like. Please share any questions or comments you have! We all see so many different things in the same text.


message 3: by Renee, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Renee M | 2640 comments Mod
I gave to admit that I started reading this in the spring of 2021 and couldn’t get into it. I was so put off by Dombey, Sr. and his treatment of both wife and daughter that I couldn’t appreciate any of the humor. I’m ready to reread with your notes in my head, Cindy; and am looking forward to seeing the early chapters through your eyes.

Questions…
1. I’ll be looking for the nuances this time around. ;-)
4. I attributed the named change to middle-class snobbery. A Toodles would be far too pedestrian to suckle the esteemed Dombey heir. A Richards seems much more in keeping with Dombey’s ideas of his family’s place and position in the world.
5. I saw this as Dickens showing the stark imbalance of Dombey’s incapacity for affection for anyone (or anything) beyond himself and his mark in the world as represented by the male heir, as an extension of himself and his accomplishments.


Okay, I’m off to begin rereading. I’ll chime in again once I’ve had the chance to reassess. :)


Paul Weiss | 100 comments Cindy wrote: "What could possibly be the reason for Mr. Dombey’s request to change Polly Toodle’s name to Richards?"

I think it was simply an exercise in misogynistic patriarchy and control, a means of demonstrating to Polly that she is completely under Dombey's rule and to more effectively severe her from her own husband and children.


message 5: by Trev (new)

Trev | 612 comments Dombey is so much of a total a tyrant (way over the top) that I prefer to laugh at him.

My favourite laugh so far was when Dombey shook hands with his brother-in-law.

’ He gave Mr. Dombey his hand, as if he feared it might electrify him. Mr. Dombey took it as if it were a fish, or seaweed, or some such clammy substance, and immediately returned it to him with exalted politeness.’



’The Christening Party’


message 6: by Trev (last edited Apr 03, 2023 06:50AM) (new)

Trev | 612 comments And before I get to the frozen wastes of the Christening, another image that made me laugh and stayed with me afterwards was this……

‘ Miss Tox, in the midst of her spreading gauzes, went down altogether like an opera-glass shutting-up; she curtseyed so low, in acknowledgment of Mr. Dombey’s advancing a step or two to meet her.’

I think all the icy blasts are coming from Dombey himself, covering everything around him with frosty subservience. Only Florence can inject any warmth into the scenes with her passionate love for her mother. She is described as not being a ‘Dombey’ and being ‘just like her mother,’ which is indeed an unwitting compliment. No wonder Dombey doesn’t like Florence because she goes around melting holes in his ice-bound kingdom. I am hoping Florence’s access to young Dombey might break down the glacial prison he inhabits.


sabagrey | 387 comments Here are my thoughts on a few of the questions - and I added a question of my own:

2. Is there another character that really caught your fancy? Is there a detail or sentence in their description that resonates with you in some way?

I loved the description of Miss Tox:

Miss Tox’s dress, though perfectly genteel and good, had a certain character of angularity and scantiness.
… and the paragraph following it, with a hilarious, detailed, and truly masterful description of the lady’s dress.

I somehow like Mr. Chick; and I notice how Mrs. Chick and Miss Tox manage to twist Mr. Dombey round their finger - not surprisingly, as pompous, self-important people like him are easily taken in by fawning.

7. We have seen references to the new railroad and the technological progress happening in society at this time. In Chapter IV, Sol Gills reflects on his failing business and his increasing age, opining that he is a relict and the world has passed him by. What do you think is the author’s purpose with this thematic idea?

I had to think of Dombey when I read this chapter: the company Dombey & Son also have been around for a long time. Dombey prides himself of the ‘old’, while Sol Gills realises that times are changing and adapts, by having the nephew learn another trade.

8. Why do you think Polly (Toodle/Richards) is so disconcerted by her son’s enrollment into this school?

The son becomes a number, which says quite a lot about the kind of school it will be - disturbing enough to a mother.

10. I have another question (really):

Mr. Pitt’s bust is mentioned twice; I suppose it’s William Pitt the Younger, Prime Minister from 1783 to 1806 (with a pause). What’s his relevance for a man like Dombey, so that he has this particular bust on the bookcase?


message 8: by Trev (new)

Trev | 612 comments sabagrey wrote: "Here are my thoughts on a few of the questions - and I added a question of my own:

Mr. Pitt’s bust is mentioned twice; I suppose it’s William Pitt the Younger, Prime Minister from 1783 to 1806 (with a pause). What’s his relevance for a man like Dombey, so that he has this particular bust on the bookcase?."


If it is Pitt the younger, my guess is that Dombey revered the man for fighting against radicalism. Even though Pitt was both a Tory and Whig, his long time in office as Prime minister ensured that very few radical policies became law. These first few chapters have convinced me that Dombey is a typical selfish businessman without a radical bone in his body.

……and I agree with you about Miss Tox…..trying to work out if there is a reason why Dickens gave her that name.


Paul Weiss | 100 comments Trev wrote: "sabagrey wrote: ……and I agree with you about Miss Tox…..trying to work out if there is a reason why Dickens gave her that name."

A homonym for mis-talks?
A shortened form of "toxic"
Words that put one in mind of "mistakes"?


Francis | 46 comments Thank you for facilitating. Great questions!

1) I may be writing only of myself, but I think with the horrid character that Dombey is Dickens is asking us to look inward and do an examination of self. So that we do not promote any of the same characteristics of Mr. Dombey.

2) I am interested in the character of Ms. Tox and her attraction to Mr. Dombey.

3) I think Dickens in one way is using time references to remind us that when all is said done we are not really in control, time passes regardless.

4) To him Toodles is too common a name and he is exerting another control aspect of his nature.

5) Definitely personalities of the participants.

6) Not sure - good question

7) To make social commentary about the changing times.

8) Maybe she doesn't want her son to become "hoity toity"

9) Foreshadowing


message 11: by Cindy, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Renee wrote: "4. I attributed the named change to middle-class snobbery. A Toodles would be far too pedestrian to suckle the esteemed Dombey heir. A Richards seems much more in keeping with Dombey’s ideas of his family’s place and position in the world. ..."

I hope Dombey proves more appealing this time around, Renee! As to Polly's name change, I agree with your assessment. I also think of how Dombey's dignity would suffer just saying her name! Can you imagine him trying to appear stately and distinguished while calling for "Toodles"? :)


message 12: by Renee, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Renee M | 2640 comments Mod
I seriously snort-laughed at that one. Toodles!


message 13: by Cindy, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Paul wrote: "I think it was simply an exercise in misogynistic patriarchy and control, a means of demonstrating to Polly that she is completely under Dombey's rule and to more effectively severe her from her own husband and children ..."

He does seem disturbed at the thought that any affiliation with the Toodles family could taint his son. The more distance between them, the better in his view!


message 14: by Cindy, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Trev wrote: "My favourite laugh so far was when Dombey shook hands with his brother-in-law.

’ He gave Mr. Dombey his hand, as if he feared it might electrify him. Mr. Dombey took it as if it were a fish, or seaweed, or some such clammy substance, and immediately returned it to him with exalted politeness.’..."


The burning question is whether Mr. Chick's hand is really clammy, or if Dombey just treated it as such. If it is reminiscent of seaweed, he really can't be blamed for his reluctance to touch it. I also just don't get the sense that Dombey is very touchy-feely. Engaging in social customs that signify liking, acceptance, or approval of others would seem to be outside of his comfort zone, in my opinion.


message 15: by Cindy, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
sabagrey wrote: "Mr. Pitt’s bust is mentioned twice; I suppose it’s William Pitt the Younger, Prime Minister from 1783 to 1806 (with a pause). What’s his relevance for a man like Dombey, so that he has this particular bust on the bookcase? ..."

I agree with Trev about Dombey's affinity for Pitt. Another reason he reveres him may be that Pitt the Younger reputedly was solitary, colorless, and exuded an attitude of superiority. They sound like soulmates!


message 16: by Cindy, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Paul wrote: "Trev wrote: "sabagrey wrote: ……and I agree with you about Miss Tox…..trying to work out if there is a reason why Dickens gave her that name."

A homonym for mis-talks?
A shortened form of "toxic"
W..."


To me, it has the most power as a shortened form of "toxic." I'm not sure if Miss Tox will reach the level of poison in this story, especially since she has been described as being insignificant as an influence of any kind thus far, but we shall see!


message 17: by Cindy, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Francis wrote: "I am interested in the character of Ms. Tox and her attraction to Mr. Dombey...."

I, too, am interested in Miss Tox and her attraction to Dombey. Now that he is single, I wonder if she will (with Louisa's help) try to ensnare him into marriage. She's already worming her way into the fabric of the family by becoming the baby's godmother.


message 18: by Trev (new)

Trev | 612 comments Cindy wrote: “The burning question is whether Mr. Chick's hand is really clammy, or if Dombey just treated it as such. If it is reminiscent of seaweed, he really can't be blamed for his reluctance to touch it. I also just don't get the sense that Dombey is very touchy-feely. Engaging in social customs that signify liking, acceptance, or approval of others would seem to be outside of his comfort zone, in my opinion...."

To continue the fishy analogy it was like a meeting between an electric eel and a flounder.

My view on Dombey’s taking of Chick’s hand was that it was a display of haughty reluctance to condescend to touch a man he despises. For some reason (probably because she is a Dombey) he holds his sister in high regard and considers Chick nowhere near good enough to be her husband.


Erich C | 3 comments I've enjoyed your comments, everyone.

In some ways, Dombey reminds me of Ebenezer Scrooge, who masks his pain of being excluded and ignored through his irascibility. Dombey has never had a friend. He is painfully aware that he can't share the closeness between Florence and Fanny and that he can't connect with his daughter (or on any real level with his son, for that matter). He sits alone in the gloom watching "Richards" carry his son back and forth, and he lives in what is basically a crypt; the description of the house after Fanny's funeral in the third paragraph of Chapter 3 describes a "blank," filled with the "mysterious shapes" of furniture "covered over with great winding-sheets." Mirrors, windows, and handles are covered with newspapers that include "accounts of deaths and dreadful murders." The covered chandelier is "like a monstrous tear depending from the ceiling's eye." "Odours, as from vaults and damp places" emanate from the chimneys, and Fanny's picture is framed in "ghastly bandages." "Mildewed remains" of straw are scattered in the street before the house.

The letter that Dombey reads and then tears up from Fanny's desk makes me wonder if he once was more tender but was disappointed somehow. He doesn't tear it up angrily, but he doesn't want anyone to know of its existence. Was it a letter he had written to Fanny? Was it a letter from someone else to Fanny that reminded Dombey of his guilt in destroying her dreams of happiness?

I'm very much enjoying the character of Susan Nipper. She seems to understand how much Florence has been neglected, but at the same time she does her duty in keeping Florence out of the way (and neglected). She can see through Louisa and Miss Tox, but she won't let herself become an outright ally of "temporary" Polly Toodle.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Gills as well.

As to the question of the oranges and half-pences, I interpreted that episode as showing that, although the Toodle children sorrow for their mother's absence, they are soon comforted and return to their jovial ways. They are secure in the love of their father and aunt and feel understood and accepted.


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Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Erich C wrote: "In some ways, Dombey reminds me of Ebenezer Scrooge, who masks his pain of being excluded and ignored through his irascibility....."

I felt the same way reading this week's chapters, Erich. There were several places where we are given hints that he may not be quite the cold-hearted monster that he appears to be. After hiring Polly, he is left alone with his infant son "and paced up and down the room in solitary wretchedness. For all his starched, impenetrable dignity and composure, he wiped blinding tears from his eyes as he did so . . . It may have been characteristic of Mr. Dombey's pride, that he pitied himself through the child" (18). He is too respectably stoic to admit to feeling anything as plebian or weak as emotions. He's definitely not devastated by his wife's death, but he does experience some grief and feelings of loss.

Another moment that we see him shaken from his usual air of imperial imperturbability is when Polly requests that Florence join them to spend time with her brother. Dombey remembers that final embrace that his wife shared with their daughter and how it left him "looking down a mere spectator--not a sharer with them--quite shut out" (29). He is haunted by these mental images and can sense "the imperfect shapes of the meaning with which they were fraught" although he is unable to decipher them "through the mist of his pride" (29). For this reason, being around Florence makes him uneasy, "as if she held the clue to something secret in his breast, of the nature of which he was hardly informed himself. As if she had an innate knowledge of one jarring and discordant string within him, and her very breath could sound it" (29). There are feelings there, but they are so foreign to his usual life that he can't recognize them or figure out what to do with them. Rather than facing these feelings and working through them, he chooses to deal with them by ignoring his daughter's existence as much as possible.

I'm curious to see whether these stirrings lead to growth or if Dombey is successful in continuing to tamp them down.


message 21: by Trev (new)

Trev | 612 comments Erich C wrote: "I've enjoyed your comments, everyone.

I'm very much enjoying the character of Susan Nipper. She seems to understand how much Florence has been neglected, but at the same time she does her duty in keeping Florence out of the way (and neglected). She can see through Louisa and Miss Tox, but she won't let herself become an outright ally of "temporary" Polly Toodle....."


I am also fascinated by the character of Susan Nipper. Straight away she displays an intelligence that easily surpasses her education and employment. It is a fate that so many girls like her suffered well beyond the nineteenth century. I am hoping that Susan’s involvement in the story continues for many more chapters.


message 22: by Renee, Moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Renee M | 2640 comments Mod
I’ve just finished chapter 2, so I can weigh in on the question about the oranges and a half-pennies. I think the dropping of these objects is symbolic of the fact that the children don’t value them. They are no recompense for the loss of their mother, in spite of the fact that fresh fruit was probably not at all common at this time period, and certainly not for a family in their circumstances.


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Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Renee wrote: "I think the dropping of these objects is symbolic of the fact that the children don’t value them. They are no recompense for the loss of their mother, in spite of the fact that fresh fruit was probably not at all common at this time period, and certainly not for a family in their circumstances ..."

That's pretty much how I see it, too. While the family doesn't have much money, they are not portrayed as so poor as to be desperate, The children are well able to part with these paltry gifts when they realize how uneven the exchange is. And how cruel is it to forbid a mother from seeing her own children when her house is close enough to reach during an afternoon stroll? I don't know if this was normal wet nurse protocol or if Dombey was just being extra, but it seems, as so many demands of the entitled do, unnecessary and heartless.


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Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Trev wrote: "I think all the icy blasts are coming from Dombey himself, covering everything around him with frosty subservience...."

I agree that Dombey seems to be the source of this unrelenting frost. The first reference to it in this chapter is when Dombey agrees to let Miss Tox act as godmother. The narrator observes that when Dombey's "cold and distant nature" had "concentrated its whole force so strongly on a partial scheme of parental interest and ambition, it seemed as if its icy current, instead of being released by this influence, and running clear and free, had thawed for but an instant to admit its burden, and then frozen with it into one unyielding block" (47).

When the day of the christening dawns, it is cold, grey, and bleak. Like you said, Trev, this seems to spring from Dombey, who "represented in himself the wind, the shade, and the autumn of the christening. He stood in his library to receive the company, as hard and cold as the weather" (52). This river of ice does flow from Dombey and freezes everything and everyone around him. All his emotions, his humanity itself, are encased in ice to the point that he sucks out all the warmth and love that should be present on such an auspicious day. He's living life in an emotional deep-freeze, not allowing any of it to touch him. I think Dickens' extended use of this imagery is to express the wintry outlook the baby faces under his father's autocratic upbringing, No matter what anyone else is feeling around him, Dombey succeeds in freezing them out and shutting all emotion down.


Sydney Dy | 5 comments I am so glad you are discussing this, this has been one of my favorite books for so many years! The Librivox recording by Mil Nicholson is also wonderful (she does a lot of great ones).

I think perhaps one reason why i love this book so much is that there is so much in it about unconditional love - you see a lot of that theme starting in these first few chapters in many places, including Florence's love for her mother and the love amongst the Toodle family.

I think also that Dombey is a more nuanced character than he may seem at first - you bring out many of these points that show up in these first chapters, with Dickens' genius: the tearing up of the letter from his wife; his lack of emotional connection and any pleasure; his obsession with the one idea of Son; his jealousy about his son (and his daughter's connection with her mother) and his fear for his son, and his lack of friends and vulnerability.

I love the language, especially the opening lines, and the vibrant characters, so many of them - Captain Cuttle, Sol Gills, Susan Nipper especially in these beginning chapters!


message 26: by Gregg (new)

Gregg | 7 comments As to the language of the christening, I took it to be somewhat heavy handed irony—all this talk about welcoming Paul into the Christian faith while his father can’t see the Christian duties right before his eyes with his daughter. None of the Dombeys can, apparently. That makes the rite tough for an outsider reading to swallow. Is it more than that?


message 27: by Cindy, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Sydney wrote: "I am so glad you are discussing this, this has been one of my favorite books for so many years! The Librivox recording by Mil Nicholson is also wonderful (she does a lot of great ones).

I think pe..."


I am really enjoying the book so far! I haven't tried any of Dickens on audio yet, but I'd really like to. I will definitely look for one by this narrator. Thanks for the tip!


message 28: by Cindy, Moderator (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cindy Newton | 672 comments Mod
Gregg wrote: "all this talk about welcoming Paul into the Christian faith while his father can’t see the Christian duties right before his eyes with his daughter. None of the Dombeys can, apparently. ..."

I speak only for myself, but I do not see any evidence of much religious devotion in the family. I think that for them, this is more of a social rite, one of the developmental boxes that is checked without any particular investment of emotion into the event. It is ironic that the family views themselves as good Christians and morally upright members of the community, all the while oblivious of the ways in which they daily transgress the teachings of the Christian faith.

Dombey's character is so cold and bleak in his perspective that I feel like the icy imagery is almost a sign of his approval of the event. He has this master plan for his son, and from the outset, the plan was thrown off kilter by Mrs. Dombey's death. Seeing his son being raised by a stranger was never part of the plan. This moment, this rite of passage for his son, is one of the times when things are going according to plan, and this is his version of the warm golden glow that would emanate from other parents at this auspicious ceremony--a frozen, icy blast of Dombey approval!


message 29: by Brian (new) - added it

Brian Fagan | 83 comments We seem to be promised the story of the major part of a lifetime, based on the title and the fact that the "Son" is born for us in the opening chapter.

I've read a fair number of Dickens' works over the years, but I didn't remember that he sometimes eschews sentence form:

"A cheerful-looking, merry boy, fresh with running home in the rain, fair-faced, bright-eyed and curly-haired."

An incredible and incredibly sad fact: "In all his (Dombey's) life, he had never made a friend."

I love the hilarious scene in which Susan Nipper, jealous of Mrs. Chick and Miss Tox's friendship, makes faces in the other room !


message 30: by Nancy (new)

Nancy | 173 comments So many great points about this first part of Dombey and Son! Two images struck me about this section. The first is the image of Mrs. Toodle/Richards pacing with young Paul in the little glass breakfast room while Mr. Dombey sits and watches from the darkened room beyond. He is removed from everything and everyone, physically and emotionally, seemingly unable to think of his infant son as anything but another possession, and unable to think of his daughter at all. The second striking image, which several of you have mentioned, is the pervasive cold on the day of Paul’s christening. The house is cold, the weather and the church are cold, the luncheon is cold, just as Mr. Dombey is cold. There is no joy in this christening, no warmth on the part of Dombey; there is just a sense of foreboding and deathly chill.


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