The Constant Nymph by Margaret Kennedy (October 2023)

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Of course, 'Gigi' - I've never seen the film but 'Thank heavens, for little girls' 🎶 which is almost impossible to listen to today.

I seem to recall that Colette makes her 16? - plus there's the ..."

I think she's 15 but iirc the age of consent in France was 13 but need to check.

[Alwynne]

I was fascinated by this article on Waterstone's website in which the writer says that Teresa seduced Lewis listed under the slightly unfortunate sub-heading "Sexy Times"!

https://www.waterstones.com/blog/the-...

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "I was fascinated by this article on Waterstone's website in which the writer says that Teresa seduced Lewis listed under the slightly unfortunate sub-heading "Sexy Times"!"

Eww, so much wrong with that article!

[Roman Clodia]

I've finished. Hmm. I've actually left my original rating of 4 stars unchanged as I got very caught up in this after the slow start BUT was a resistant reader to what I think were Kennedy's authorial intentions. Despite Florence's concern about the optics at the end, I don't think Kennedy was actually troubled by the nature of the Tessa/Lewis relationship, and Florence is more worried of how it may appear than how it might have affected Tessa - very interested to see what other readers think.

I'm conscious that Susan is still reading and I don't think Brian has started this yet so I'm going to put this in spoilers and would appreciate if any replies can also be in spoiler tags: (view spoiler)[at the end when Tessa and Lewis elope, do you think they actually consummate their relationship or does she die a virgin? The latter would sort of fit with the classical idea of nymphs as we've mentioned up-thread. (hide spoiler)]

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "I've finished. Hmm. I've actually left my original rating of 4 stars unchanged as I got very caught up in this after the slow start BUT was a resistant reader to what I think were Kennedy's authori..."

I agree emphasis on appearances and not on the impact on such a young girl whatsoever - and the Waterstone's article show that's how it's read by others, all her fault which is so problematic.

(view spoiler)[ And yes I think we're supposed to believe she died a virgin, although in real life think it would have been rather unlikely! It's weird though as partly demonstrates steadfast love but also seems like a punishment for transgression. A bit like killing the lesbian (hide spoiler)]

[Brian E]

Roman Clodia wrote: "I don't think Brian has started this yet so I'm going to put this in spoilers "

You're right, I haven't. I'm managing to glimpse at the posts to read the reactions and gloss over the plot details. I have the general picture of the uncomfortable aspects of the nymph theme, but I anticipated that. Also, even some who give it positive reviews have mentioned that its a bit of slow coming out of the gate which should help me weather through any early going slog.

Coincidentally, yesterday I just read the book Daddy-Long-Legs for a 'Back to School" YA theme read in another group. It also has a May-September romance theme. Thankfully, it comes off much better and natural than the movie version which has a 55 year-old Fred Astaire (probably playing someone intended to be much younger) choosing the young girl out at age 17 or 18, allegedly to adopt rather than romance. In the book, the age difference is 14 years and there isn't near the level of creepy grooming that the movie version has.

[Roman Clodia]

Glad we haven't spoiled it for you, Brian. I'm amazed that my first review of this book didn't mention the uncomfortable aspects: my updated review is all about them.

But yes, I still think there's much of interest here - not least the tension between what has previously been seen as 'romantic' and what we now deem creepy grooming, as you have termed it. But there are lots of other things that Kennedy is thinking about in the book like art, patronage, creativity etc.

I first heard of Daddy Long-Legs a few years back when an older female friend told me she used to swoon over it as a teenager - I haven't read it myself.

[Roman Clodia]

Re your spoiler, Alwynne: (view spoiler)[completely agree about the unlikelihood of Tessa remaining a virgin! That 'illness' came out of nowhere and the fact that the pain was around her heart seemed a bit pointed.

Completely agree about the punishment aspect that is so often attributed to transgressive women, and in this case there's also that fetishisation of dead female bodies that is so prevalent across western culture.

I also wondered if there was a sort of wished-for martyrdom being portrayed: that idea that women 'prove' their constancy and worthiness through self-harm? I was thinking of the Twilight books where Bella, after Edward says they can't be together, takes on all kinds of risky pursuits to prove her death-wish if he won't be her lover. Very dangerous idea, as many critics pointed out at the time, to promulgate to teenage girls.

Also Virgil's Dido, of course, who stabs herself with his sword on their bed (!), and many of the abandoned (in both senses of the word) women in Ovid's Heroides and classical myth generally. (hide spoiler)]

[Alwynne]

I quite liked Daddy Long-Legs I read the Penguin edition which includes the sequel Dear Enemy but think that Webster's politics helped make it more palatable:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Re: your spoiler R. C. (view spoiler)[ I only read or rather failed to read the first Twilight book but saw the film and I totally agree with your points. And yes the trope is well-established from Dido to Madame Butterfly and beyond, I suppose at least in Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther the man dies but there the surviving woman also has heart pains that suggest she won't stick around for long! Is it in some way a variation on the link between Eros and Thanatos do you think? Or am I overthinking it? Is Theresa's death perhaps also tied to Kennedy's ideas about the death of the spirit or the threat to a particular form of culture/art? (hide spoiler)]

[Alwynne]

I was also trying to think of a similar age-gap relationship convention in queer fiction but in films/plays/books portraying lesbian relationships the age dynamic is more usually presented as deeply problematic - thinking of Mädchen in Uniform or Aldrich's film version of 'The Killing of Sister George'. And this notion of older women seducing/corrupting young girls also comes up in films like 'Personal Best' from the 80s although in that the older woman sacrifices the girl to a more suitable male partner. Although it's not an issue in books like The Price of Salt or ones about men like Call Me By Your Name where it's represented more as a rite of passage. But the emphasis seems to be on power dynamics and/or transience rather than romance, similar to the relationship between Lea and Cheri in Chéri and The End of Chéri

[Brian E]

Alwynne wrote: "I quite liked Daddy Long-Legs I read the Penguin edition which includes the sequel Dear Enemy but think that Webster's politics helped make it more palatable: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

I quite liked Daddy-Long-Legs too. And I like your review. Not only does it have me considering reading Dear Enemy even though it is "Back to Orphanage" rather than "Back to School" themed but it also provided me a new addition to my repertoire of writing critique adjectives. I quite like your "light and frothy" description of the main character's epistolary writing style. The image of 'froth' does vividly depict the essence of Judy's letters. An after-dinner dessert read for sure.
My review of DLL: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Roman Clodia]

Re your spoiler, Alwynne: (view spoiler)[Eros and thanatos, yes, but I also suspect there's something deeper going on culturally with all those dead female bodies in culture as various women scholars have pointed out: I'm thinking of things like the expulsion of the kings and the birth of the Roman Republic being built over Lucrece's dead body, for example.

But in the case of Tessa, I wonder if it's also part of the 'romance' that she dies when she's still 'pure' and thus can be a sort of angelic, untouched figure for whom Lewis will always long? If she had become his mistress, would she just have been one more woman he would tire of? (hide spoiler)]

[Roman Clodia]

That mention of Lea and Chéri (I must re-read some Colette!) is fascinating in this context - and I've just read the very short book by Annie Ernaux about her relationship with a man thirty years younger than her: Le jeune homme/The Young Man which offers up all kinds of different ways of looking at this topic from a contemporary and gendered view.

[Alwynne]

(view spoiler)[ I think you're right she becomes the unattainable ideal, but also then shifts the emphasis away from women's emotions to men's. But where does Florence fit in do you think? In many ways she seems closest to Kennedy - at least in terms of background - than any of the other characters. (hide spoiler)]

[Roman Clodia]

(view spoiler)[Yes, good point about how Tessa's death turns into Lewis' 'tragedy'. I don't know anything about Kennedy so interesting to hear that Florence might be close to her.

I agree, it's difficult to get a hold on what meaning Kennedy might have intended with this book, it's just not delineated on the sort of clear ideological lines of, say, Howards End. That's one of the things I found surprising on my first read and it's still puzzling me this time around. One of the reasons I like this book despite the various problematic aspects around all the anti-Semitism and age of consent.

One of the themes as I read it is around responsibility: Lewis, like the Sanger father is free from it; Florence uses it as a bit of a cover to get rid of Tessa and the other children. Tessa sort of takes on responsibilities that she's too young to hold and it kills her. (hide spoiler)]

[Susan]

I am not looking at spoilers, as I am about halfway through this. I agree that there is a lot of what, in modern terms, is obvious grooming. I liked The Feast a lot, this has aged far less well.

I am currently reading, Penhallow by Georgette Heyer and I am struck by the similar family dynamics. In both novels, the second wife (mistress in Constant Nymph - would have been third wife I think) is resented by the children of previous relationships and their child disliked and bullied. It makes me consider how these men seemed to delight in bullying and creating dissent and disharmoney. Neither men seem to have considered what would happen when they died either.

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, definitely don't click on the spoilers, Susan and anyone else still reading till you're done.

I've long had Penhallow on my TBR so thanks for the nudge. Literature does seem to be full of irresponsible and selfish men including fathers who don't take any consideration for their families after they die. Austen is full of them, even when they're still alive!

[Susan]

Penhallow has mixed reviews - it is much darker than her usual mysteries, but I am enjoying it.

[Roman Clodia]

I like the sound of dark Heyer!

[Brian E]

FINISHED PART 3 (out of 4)
I want to thank all the previous posters on this thread for making comments that reduced my expectations for reading this novel. After perusing the comments before I started, I was a bit wary about reading it.

Instead, I found myself engaged from the start and have not experienced any story lulls or found the nymph aspect that "problematic.' The joy of having expectations surpassed.
I believe the nymph aspect is more muted than I thought it would be because, while Tony may be described in a sexual manner, Tessa has not been quite so portrayed. I realize that will likely come, though. And the involved males, Ike and Lewis, appropriately come off as creeps, though less so Jacob/Ike. Lewis gradually has become more and more unlikeable; Kennedy has deftly handled characterization of this spoiled, arrogant, elitist, entitled artist.

I have enjoyed Kennedy's writing, her characterizations, her setting and her storytelling. To me, she is exhibiting the same talents that she evidenced so well in The Feast and somewhat in Troy Chimneys which showed her skilled writing and characterization but suffered from her creative but 'clunky' storytelling.

Some have mentioned that this story hasn't aged well. Maybe I am enjoying it so much because I haven't either.

[Susan]

It's great to hear you are enjoying it, Brian.

[Roman Clodia]

Very interesting comments, Brian, that you perhaps haven't found the 'nymph' aspect as problematic as some of us. I'll be interested to see whether that changes by the end of the book...

It's certainly a book just made for discussion.

[Brian E]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Very interesting comments, Brian, that you perhaps haven't found the 'nymph' aspect as problematic as some of us. I'll be interested to see whether that changes by the end of the book... .."

FINISHED THE BOOK - SPOILERS
While the nymph aspect did become more problematic, it never reached the final level with Tessa. Also Tessa became more sympathetic by the end as Florence got less sympathetic. I very much enjoyed how Kennedy toyed with our attitudes toward these two 'heroines in the latter stages of the story.
And Lewis just became a creepier and crappier person as time went on. I don't think Lewis' actions toward Tessa was portrayed as acceptable even with the general consensus, even by Charles, that Tessa fit better with Lewis than Florence did.

I did accept the age differential as, while still creepy, less creepy in that time period. As Alwynne mentioned in the Annie John thread, perceptions of seduction and childhood have changed even since the 1920s:

"love and how it might manifest markedly different in novels from the 1930s compared to now - what is presented as affection/seduction in 1920s and 1930s romance narratives would now be understood as coercive or obsessive or stalking or in many instances rape. Western notions of childhood as, for example, a time of innocence separate from adulthood is a relatively recent historical invention stemming from the nineteenth century and even then was inflected by class/social status."

To refer to another RTTC read, I did find myself wishing Lewis would get involved in some kind of dispute where he would draw the short straw. Perhaps with Jacob? Win/Win?

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Roman Clodia]

Brian E wrote: "I did find myself wishing Lewis would get involved in some kind of dispute where he would draw the short straw. Perhaps with Jacob? Win/Win?"

Ha, brilliant! 'Drawing the short straw' has a whole other resonance now for those of us who've read Red Pottage 🤩