The Sword and Laser discussion
Learned a new word : Protopia
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The concept, which Mr. Kelly debuted in his 2010 book, “What Technology Wants,” refers to a society that, rather than solving all its problems (as in a utopia) or falling into dire dysfunction (as in a dystopia), makes incremental progress over a long period of time — thanks to the ways in which technological advancement is enhancing the natural evolutionary process.This sounds like... history? I mean, most societies do this, so I'm not sure it needs a word but...
Star Trek was total Protopia. The Expanse, not so much.
Stephen wrote: "Star Trek was total Protopia. The Expanse, not so much."I've not read the books and only watched into the middle of S3, but do we have any indication of what life is like for most regular people? I mean, there's a lot of doom talking about our current reality but for people in the OECD countries at least, life is immeasurably better than it was for even the aristocracy a couple of centuries ago.
I'm not sure how I see Kelly's definition of protopia being much different from the common concept of progress. Neither is a perfect state of affairs, i.e. a utopia but... there's incremental progress.
Rick wrote: "This sounds like... history? I mean, most societies do this, so I'm not sure it needs a word but..."Did that article even say anything? It sounded like typical corporate consultant bullship with a lot of meaningless buzzwords.
That’s right, I said it: bullship. It’s how they transport their excrement by the ton.
Stephen wrote: "Star Trek was total Protopia. The Expanse, not so much."
I don’t see the two being all that different aside from scale. In the Expanse, some countries get nuked, some don’t. In Star Trek, some planets get nuked, some don’t. Some people have health care, some don’t. Some live in a democracy, some in a dictatorship. Your fate depends entirely on luck of the draw.
Rick wrote: I've not read the books and only watched into the middle of S3, but do we have any indication of what life is like for most..."The Expanse's solar system is in a state where the gap between rich and poor is immense - you have your oligarch's like Jules-Pierre Mao all the way down to the Belters who are exploited by Mars and Earth interests. One of the definitions I've seen of a Protopian society is "one that has the capacity to become incrementally better as a result of the freedom of its members." The whole point of the conflict between Belters, Mars and Earth is that they aren't anywhere near that as yet. For example, there is no freedom in the Belt, it's the lower strata of society that works in dangerous, exploitive conditions for the benefit of the planets. When they revolt, like they did on Anderson Station, they are put down with brutality by the ruling forces.
right but there are billions on Earth. We wouldn't argue that we're not better off in 2023 because there are billions still in poverty in the third world. "Protopia" just sounds like a word made up because "progress" was taken. If it argues that a much higher percentage
It goes back to William Gibson’s remark, “The future is here, it’s just not evenly distributed.”An equitable protopia future is by definition a utopia.
Rick wrote: "right but there are billions on Earth..."Sabaka! You pinche inyalowda, alla the same. Que si?
From left field as usual, but made me think of Kate Raworth and her Doughnut Economics: Seven Ways to Think Like a 21st-Century Economist
Lastly to stay on theme - I did say cozytopia when I read it because it loosely made me think of mystery cozies, good things happen but someone always dies.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/14/sp...