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What is the difference between being baptized with the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit?
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Michael
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Mar 08, 2015 02:55PM
Sometimes when we read the New Testament record of those who are baptized in the Spirit or filled with the Spirit, it seems that these terms are used interchangeably, that they refer to the same phenomenon. At other times there's a little distinction that is not altogether clear in the text. Are they the same or are they different? Please explain.
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From my teaching, they're one in the same. You can't be filled with the Holy Spirit without being baptized in the Holy Spirit
I don't think they are different as such. Where I differ with many other Christians is how I interpret being "born again" or palingenesis. I don't think being baptized in the Holy Spirit is necessarily to be born again. I think it's the beginning, the inception (or conception) of the born again process, but I think it's only through subsequent testing in adversity with faith does someone become truly born again. Spirit filled would be the latter person more than the former I think. The first has not been refined through the tempering process. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit means you have received the Spirit. It is the anointing, the unction. But there is a lot of work the Spirit will need to do with you before one is truly born again and walking according to the Spirit, with little or no accounting for the flesh.
Nicholas wrote: "From my teaching, they're one in the same. You can't be filled with the Holy Spirit without being baptized in the Holy Spirit"Nicholas, if they mean the same thing in the New Testament, why do you think the different terms are used at all?
Erick wrote: "I don't think they are different as such. Where I differ with many other Christians is how I interpret being "born again" or palingenesis. I don't think being baptized in the Holy Spirit is necessa..."Erick, are you saying the Salvation is a process or are you just describing sanctification coming after one has been saved (i.e. justified)?
Mike wrote: "Erick, are you saying the Salvation is a process or are you just describing sanctification coming after one has been saved (i.e. justified)? "No. I'm not talking about salvation. Although, baptism in the Holy Spirit doesn't prevent someone from later walking away from the faith and denying Christ. I've seen that enough to know that it can and does happen. That's also why I don't think that baptism in the Holy Spirit necessarily means someone is Spirit filled. A genuinely Spirit filled Christian won't walk away from the faith; even if in theory, they could. Someone is saved if they confess Jesus Christ and do their best to be obedient to Him. Sanctification is indeed a subsequent process to confession and salvation. Just because someone is not completely sanctified (i.e. Spirit filled) doesn't mean they don't have salvation. That's why I didn't use the word salvation. That's a separate issue to me. These points are a little more fine for me than they are for Calvinists, who often over generalize these things.
For me being born again means someone is more or less sanctified. That may involve unique processes for different people; but for me it invariably means that they have put down the carnal man to a greater degree. They are walking more by the Spirit than by the flesh. Honestly, I'm not sure how many Christians actually would qualify as being completely born again according to what I just laid out (including myself), but this is St. Paul's definition of palingenesis in Romans and other places.
Erick wrote: "For me being born again means someone is more or less sanctified. That may involve unique processes for different people; but for me it invariably means that they have put down the carnal man to a ..."Erick, I hope you don't mind if I ask a few more questions. I'm not trying to be difficult (not at all), but I truly am seeking to understand your position.
You wrote, "For me being born again means someone is more or less sanctified" which implies (to me) that becoming born again happens at the end of the sanctification process. You also talked about "being completely born again" which implies the same thing. Yet Jesus said in John 3: 3 and again in John 3:5 that being born again is a prerequisite for entering the kingdom of God. In other words, the born again experience needs to happen at the beginning of the Christian life, not at the end. How do you respond?
Mike wrote: "You wrote, "For me being born again means someone is more or less sanctified" which implies (to me) that becoming born again happens at the end of the sanctification process. You also talked about "being completely born again" which implies the same thing. Yet Jesus said in John 3: 3 and again in John 3:5 that being born again is a prerequisite for entering the kingdom of God. In other words, the born again experience needs to happen at the beginning of the Christian life, not at the end. How do you respond? "Well part of the problem I see is this: I am thinking in terms of what God is seeking to do with His creation and you are thinking in terms of a heavenly kingdom as a place we go when we die, or possibly after the resurrection and the eschaton. I don't really separate them as such. I think the kingdom is present now in what Christ is accomplishing in the church and the individual believer. So the coming kingdom, as you mean it, cannot be divorced from the kingdom that is present now and working in the Christian as I see it.
But to get at the heart of your supposition, I would say that no, we are not going to get into the kingdom of heaven after the resurrection without full sanctification. I can provide many verses from Revelation that elucidate that the bride is to be without spot or blemish and that all sinfulness and corruption remains outside the heavenly kingdom; Matthew 13:36-43 says the same. Christians will not take all of their corruption into heaven (in the sense you seem to take it) with them. It seems to be Protestants more than other branches of orthodox Christianity that think in terms of pure grace getting you into heaven in total without refining and cleansing being done. I don't believe scripture supports such a thing. I understand the desire that some Christians have for wanting us to receive some consolation here and now, apart from God's intent and goal. I just think it pays no due respect to what God ultimately wants to do. It also separates what the Holy Spirit is doing now from future heavenly rewards. I don't believe there is any such separation, Spiritually speaking. I also don't believe that the verse in John is necessarily referring to palingenesis occurring only at the beginning of the sanctification process. The beginning is essential, but so is the end of the sanctification process. Both go hand in hand. God is Holy and He intends to make His creation Holy. Grace must be seen in this context and not in some other context that doesn't recognize what God is seeking to do with His creation. This does not mean that all sanctification is done within this world as we know it. It may be completed some other way. I only must insist that it has to happen before entering into glory at the end.
These are just a few passages that support what I am saying. But there are certainly more.Matthew 13:36-43
Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
Revelation 21:2, 7-8, 22, 27
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband... Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”...I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple... Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life."
Ephesians 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
2 Peter 3:13-14
But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
It's impossible to be born again, later on. You said it yourself that being born again is the beginning of the process. The beginning is from start, from birth. If you are filled with the spirit does not prevent you from sinning, so a person filled with the spirit is still in flesh. Holy Spirit is within you to guide and instruct. This is only possible, when you allow Holy Spirit to take control. From the beginning of life on earth, GOD gave us dominion. HE didn't make us into robots, so being filled with Holy Spirit doesnt provide this automatic, "can do no wrong" person.
Nicholas wrote: "It's impossible to be born again, later on. You said it yourself that being born again is the beginning of the process. The beginning is from start, from birth. If you are filled with the spirit does not prevent you from sinning, so a person filled with the spirit is still in flesh. Holy Spirit is within you to guide and instruct. "You seem to ignore Paul's definition on more than one occasion, and in plain language, as to what does, and does not, constitute being in the Spirit. I certainly never said that you could not sin, but that you wouldn't. See, there is a difference. Walking according to the Spirit changes your desires so that you will not want to sin; it doesn't make it so that you can't. I never claimed perfection either, only that one is not ruled by the flesh. Neither did I say that truly Spiritual Christians are robots. To believe that being born again and that full Spiritual maturity happens immediately upon confession, or at baptism of any kind, is misguided. It makes self-satisfied Christians that actually need a lot more work, but believe that they have already arrived at the goal and don't need it. I also never claimed that the Holy Spirit removes freewill. I actually said plainly that I am not a Calvinist. I do not take away freewill and I don't believe that the Holy Spirit takes away freewill. I never said that one does not have to surrender to His work; nor do I believe that. You assume far too much. Also, life does not begin at birth it begins at conception. I said very plainly above that I think the initial confession and receiving of the Spirit is conception, not birth. Birth requires labor pangs, i.e. testing and perseverance to see the fruit from the planted seed (see Matthew 13:18-23; Luke 8:11-15; Mark 4:26-29 -which indicates the Spirit starts as a seed, not as fruit, and is a process requiring perseverance, not an immediate occurrence).
Now, let me cite some more verses with my commentary and interpretation and you can then provide an interpretation that is better if you feel that mine is lacking.
1 Corinthians 3:1-4
And so, brothers and sisters, [NOTE:] I could not speak to you as spiritual people, but rather as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for solid food. Even now you are still not ready, for you are still of the flesh. For as long as there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving according to human inclinations? For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” and another, “I belong to Apollos,” are you not merely human?
So if Paul here is still criticizing these people for being fleshly, although presumably they are confessing, baptized Christians, it seems plain that Paul does not think they are walking in the Spirit and did not become fully regenerate upon confession and baptism.
Hebrews 5:11-14
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Once again, using very similar language, the author of Hebrews is castigating supposedly baptized and professing Christians for being immature spiritually, i.e. being fleshly, not Spiritual.
Galatians 4:19-20
My little children, for whom I am again in the pain of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, I wish I were present with you now and could change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.
So Paul is talking to professing baptized Christians here as well, but he is once again indicating that they have not become fully regenerate. He is very plainly saying that Christ is still being formed in them but the Spirit is not mature.
I'm sorry, I cannot agree with you Nicholas that regeneration happens all at once with confession or any kind of initial baptism. It quite simply is not born out by scripture.
I didn't say that you could not sin, but that you wouldn't? Ha! I'm done
Nicholas wrote: "I didn't say that you could not sin, but that you wouldn't? Ha! I'm done"Very Christian reaction Nicholas. You seem intent on proving my point rather than countering it.
To make it clear once again, I am not saying I meet Paul's requirement for being a Spiritual Christian. In fact, I know that I don't. That may be the only thing that separates me from many other Christians; I recognize that I do not have the Spiritual maturity that Paul describes. Too many Christians believe they already have it. Their behavior often does not indicate at all that they are Spiritually mature. Sometimes it doesn't even say that they are Christians at all (I'm not pointing at anyone specifically); but because of religious pride, they often think that they are as supremely Christian and as regenerate as anyone can be. This is a bad presupposition. I think this attitude stunts growth and ultimately reflects poorly on the church as a whole. I not only base my view on scripture, it is also evident in the church today that the vast percentage of Christians lack Spiritual maturity, but remain in that state because they don't believe that they lack it. Pride will, more often than not, prevent the Holy Spirit from doing what He seeks to do, and that is what I believe this attitude stems from. It doesn't mean these people are not Christians and that they don't have the Holy Spirit, it simply means they are more or less carnal; that they are lacking growth and Spiritual maturity, that is all. Regenerate life is not being had in the fullest sense intended by the New Testament. The phrase being "born again" has become a misnomer; it is used to denote a complete state, but it isn't.
Passages are listed after opinion.I find it interesting that there should be confusion regarding the difference between being ‘filled with the Holy Ghost (Spirit) and being baptized by the Spirit. Being baptized in the Spirit appears to be a one-time event. This is particularly demonstrated by the passage in First Corinthians which states we were baptized by the Spirit as a past tense event for each believer. This would indicate that the baptism took place at the moment of salvation. At Pentecost the out pouring of the Spirit took place at the moment of salvation and the instantaneous filling of the Spirit experienced by the present.
I imagine this event was unsettling for the apostles and others. I mean it is harsh enough for the unholy person to be confronted by the most Holy God only to discover that He not only is not going to consume you with fire but He loves and accepts you. Then to have that same God force feed you His glory and majesty to such an extent you proclaim His Word and power not only in your own language but others as well. That would pretty much fry my brain and turn me into a gibbering idiot.
However for the typical Christian the events are experienced separately. Paul, as always, is a good example. Here this poor guy was on his way to Damascus to punish a few heretic Christians when this entity knocks him to the ground and gives him a lesson in who is who in the world. That is Paul is a creature and God is the Creator and Paul gets to have a face to face confrontation. That is quite a shocker for all of us. I mean that is the basic formula of a salvation experience. I mean God grabs a hold of us and tells us that He is a Holy God and we are anything but holy. Just about the time we think we are going to be burnt to a cinder, He tells us that it is alright because He loves us and paid the price for us. Then the creature can only bow in humble love giving thanks for this experience of grace and mercy. Paul then spends quite a bit of time learning about Jesus before he starts his ministry where upon he on occasion experiences the filling of the Holy Spirit.
I come to the conclusion regarding the last statement from the passage in Eph. where Paul compares being filled with the Spirit with being drunk. I am certain he is not suggesting we all go out and get wasted, but that when we are filled with the Spirit we have lost control and the Spirit is in total control of us. Elsewhere we know that Paul admits that he is not under the total control of the Spirit all the time. That which I desire to do I do not do; that which I do not desire is that which I actually do. Also in the Eph. passage it is an admonition to work toward rather than an event that took place in the past.
Mar_1:8 I indeed baptized you in water, but He will baptize you in the Holy Spirit.
Act_1:5 for John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days after."
Act_11:16 And I recalled the Word of the Lord, how He said, John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:11 – 18 But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each as He wills. Even as the body is one, and has many members, but all the members of the one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For also we all were baptized by one Spirit into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, even all were given to drink into one Spirit. For also the body is not one member, but many. If the foot says, ‘Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body’, on account of this, is it not of the body? And if the ear says, ‘Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body’, on account of this, is it not of the body? If all the body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If all hearing, where the smelling? But now God set the members, each one of them, in the body, even as He desired.
Luk_1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Luk_1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Luk_1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Act_2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act_4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Act_4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Act_9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act_13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Eph_5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Bob,I do see a problem with your method of interpretation. Hopefully, you can bear with me and be more magnanimous than Nicholas. If you have a problem with what I am saying, please point out inaccuracies using scripture. Let me illustrate my problem by first quoting one verse that you cited and give my comments and other verses afterward:
Luk_1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Taking this verse in the same sense as one might take the movement of the Holy Spirit after Pentecost is very difficult; well nigh impossible scripturally. Let me give a verse which indicates why:
John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
What needs to be kept in mind is how the "filling" of the Holy Spirit is meant to be taken in these references. The "giving" or "filling" of the Holy Spirit can mean different things in various contexts. Firstly, the term "filling" is relative. It can have a lot to do with capacity and office. Secondly, one has to note it's relation to concepts like "anointing" and what dispensation (not in the sense of dispensationalism, which I am against) the person in question, and the terminology, is used in. John's gospel says plainly that the Holy Spirit was not given until Christ's glorification. This means Jesus brought a very specific "anointing" and "filling" that did not come before. John The Baptist was "filled" by the Holy Spirit in the womb as a reference to his anointing into a particular office under a specific dispensation, i.e. that which was under the Old covenant and law. He was the culmination of the OT prophets; yet Jesus said very plainly about him:
Matthew 11:11
"Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."
Clearly, John's filling cannot be equated to that filling and anointing after Pentecost. This is supported in the quote you gave above:
Act_11:16 And I recalled the Word of the Lord, how He said, John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit.
John did not have the anointing that Jesus had. They were different; different offices, dispensations, capacities, natures, etc etc.
Acts 1 treats this Holy Spirit occurrence at Pentecost as something new and unique:
"On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
We cannot treat all these occurrences of "filling" the same way. They cannot be taken out of the context they are intended to be read in. In many cases, filling means "anointing" for a certain occasion, as in the two verses you gave above:
Act_4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Act_13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
The above occurrences were after Pentecost, do these verses mean they were never filled before, at Pentecost for example? No, certainly not; Peter received a special anointing to speak to the people at that moment; Paul received an anointing to curse Elymas. The references to "filling" here mean "anointing" for a particular purpose. They don't mean that that is the first and only time they were filled with the Spirit. It also doesn't indicate at all that once a person is "filled" that more anointing cannot be given for new offices and for new Spiritual capacities, based on Spiritual growth and further sanctification.
Erick wrote: "Bob,I do see a problem with your method of interpretation. Hopefully, you can bear with me and be more magnanimous than Nicholas. If you have a problem with what I am saying, please point out ina..."
I have not read much less analyzed your post but allow me to say this. I my personal walk with our Lord He has demonstrated to me my inability to truly understand His grace and mercy. Thus I try not to dismiss the opinion of others. Each of us is subject to err so the only perfect theologian is God. I do not claim to have His infinite knowledge and understanding. Hopefully I will respond in a manner that you can accept as from an equal rather than some authority sold on my own knowledge.
Bob wrote: "Hopefully I will respond in a manner that you can accept as from an equal rather than some authority sold on my own knowledge. "Fair enough. I don't necessarily believe that the above came from my own knowledge. I share only what I think God has revealed to me. If people reject it, that is their own prerogative. Thankfully, God has given us the ability to be free in accepting or rejecting any idea if it doesn't sit well with us. I don't slight anyone for using freedom so.
Well, that was a lively discussion. Thanks to all for your comments.
Mike wrote: "Well, that was a lively discussion. Thanks to all for your comments."Been having those a lot lately. You should see the discussion I had with a bunch of people that believe Jesus never existed -oy vey! You can lead a horse to water...
