When Gravity Fails by George Alec Effinger

[Kc]

This is the book for our next book chat on Saturday 2nd May 2015. (note, we are missing out April)

If anyone knows of a good link to download it please post below.

Post any comments and thoughts also.

[Kc]

Note, UK times will have gone forward an hour by then. A good place to check is http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?qm=1&a...

[Stephane]

Thank you Kirstie,
It can be found here as an epub document : http://tinyurl.com/n7jvj2h
Do we have anyone for moderation already ? If not, I can do it.

[Kc]

Hi Stephane, that would be great thanks. I got it for about £3 on the Kindle.

[Stephane]

Budayeen is a rude place - but I hadn't read detective stories since long.
Which new themes have interested you in this story ?
I can think about geopolitical changes in the future, the transgender topic, the very convenient moddies and the identity switching daddies...

Is 9pm GMT ok for Saturday ? it's 2 hours more on continental Europe - even 1 more in Lithuania for Asta - that's quite late

[Stephane]

Interesting - "When Gravity fails" has been used as a background universe for the role playing game "Cyberpunk 2020" - here it is https://fr.scribd.com/doc/258111053/C...

[Chris]

I am away on the 2nd May unfortunately. Hope you have a good discussion though, it sounds like an interesting read.

Chris

[Kc]

I had a few thoughts. Will note them here before Saturday.

[Rick]

Sorry I won't be able to join you. Got called in to teach a course at the last minute. Have a good chat.

[Stephane]

We won't be enough participants for our Tweet chat this month - but we still can try to make a Questions & Answers round on Goodreads that will let us, say the weekend, to answer to. Just post the questions, reactions or reflections on the book. Let's try it - are you okay ?
I begin with one question per thread.

[Stephane]

Q0. Our traditional first impressions on the book. Did you like it ?

[Stephane]

Q1. I was surprised to read that the story is supposed to take place near the end of the 22nd century (published in 1986 though). Year 2015, I'd set the story in maybe 20 years from now, except maybe for the geopolitical background.
How do you see your country in 2050 ?

[Stephane]

Q2. The manipulation of moddies is quite sensitive. Would you use such a technology ? For which application and whose personality would you like to experiment ?

[Kc]

"Being in the world but not of it"
Q3. What virtue was there to being 'unmodified'. Did it have advantages over the Moddies?

[Kc]

Q4. There was a theme of nature (what is natural - emotions/bodily functions) - what other examples were there in the theme of nature vs synthetic?

[Kc]

Stephane wrote: "Q1. I was surprised to read that the story is supposed to take place near the end of the 22nd century (published in 1986 though). Year 2015, I'd set the story in maybe 20 years from now, except may..."

It surprised me that the book was written in 1986 - I assumed it was written in the last 5 years or so. 50 years in the UK - I think we are at very unpredictable stage in history. I don't know whether it's because we have more information to draw on, but the world seems to be going through a big change (and yes, geopolitical definitely). Technology-wise, if it keeps developing then augmentation and wearables will be normalised. This will come with a pay off for privacy. There may be groups who resist these because of this and also there will be 'battles' over who owns the technology (ie. people/big companies). On the positive side, technology will be focussed in one way to try to mitigate climate change and peak oil but this will create greater global divides in the 'haves' and 'have nots'. On a personal level, I'll probably be in the same house growing vegetables as I am now!

[Kc]

Stephane wrote: "Q0. Our traditional first impressions on the book. Did you like it ?"

I found it a gripping crime novel and read it very quickly. The sci-fi elements were a big part of the context, but the book stood up well on it's story and plot. The characters were interesting and there were some good twists! I would be happy to seek out other books by Effinger.

[Kc]

Stephane wrote: "Q2. The manipulation of moddies is quite sensitive. Would you use such a technology ? For which application and whose personality would you like to experiment ?"

Mmm. good question! The operation required might put me off. I might consider it as I get older, if, for example I become immobile. I don't think I would like it as I am now - the only advantage I can see is extra energy and being able to take on new interests, perhaps not needing sleep. However, the toll is taken on the body as there is a Cold Turkey (withdrawal).

[Stephane]

Kc wrote: "Stephane wrote: "Q0. Our traditional first impressions on the book. Did you like it ?"

I found it a gripping crime novel and read it very quickly. The sci-fi elements were a big part of the contex..."

Q0. The language and situations could be felt as a bit rude but it felt very authentic in the hard life of Budayeen with our, a bit cynical and ironic - and multi-addicted - Marîd Audran.
I wasn't so impress about the sci-fi elements (old computer terminals and phones). The daddies and moddies were interesting but came quite late in the novel. It felt in fact quite familiar - the setting could be contemporary or a bit outdated : it reminded me of the film "Pépé le Moko" - 1936 (great trailer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ftf...) - even the sexchange habits felt quite normal (maybe as we can nowadays read more about the actual Queer culture)
Enjoyable in its quality of roman noir - and curious geopolitical situation.
There are more books in this Marîd Audran serie and even a video game ! https://archive.org/details/msdos_Cir...

[Stephane]

Kc wrote: "Stephane wrote: "Q1. I was surprised to read that the story is supposed to take place near the end of the 22nd century (published in 1986 though). Year 2015, I'd set the story in maybe 20 years fro..."
Q1. yes, the story was written before the collapse of the soviet Union and even in 1989, the majority thought it could last more decades with the tensions between the 2 blocs (3 with the so called Third world that is the setting here). Now the situation is more indistinct - and even in the EU, the Nation State system is still the rule. I'm curious to see countries like Estonia taking big steps in the development and use of new technologies and other like Slovakia that seem to stay in the 20th century.
France has a lot of potential with a lot of start-ups, but seems to hold back (one of the most pessimist countries) as it has to redefine its identity between the idea of "France éternelle" and the modern multicultural society. That are the exacerbate debates on the public (media) sphere. It may be that a society that is more oriented to innovation could be more optimistic and bring more openness as it forges a new culture. Against disparities, a renewal of education politics and practices seems to be necessary.

[Stephane]

Kc wrote: "Stephane wrote: "Q2. The manipulation of moddies is quite sensitive. Would you use such a technology ? For which application and whose personality would you like to experiment ?"

Mmm. good questio..."
Q2. The personality modules could be quite interesting for an assignment in a classroom, don't you think ? Let organize a meeting between the Enlightenment philosophers - Hobbes, Kant and Voltaire for example with some language add-ons (daddies)to debate. Ok, it's maybe less harmful to organize a classical role playing session (or video-games).
It's still very practical to experiment another point of view, one of some genius, on some situations or researches.
Sadly, it seems that there are no unwired long-term effects (The film "limitless" is very close to this utilization of add-on and drugs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THE_h...)

[Stephane]

Kc wrote: ""Being in the world but not of it"
Q3. What virtue was there to being 'unmodified'. Did it have advantages over the Moddies?"
I think it's much more an ethic or an attitude - moral, based on religious principles in the novel - a fear - a bit like refusing to use social networks or smartphones nowadays. It doesn't seem to contradict any negative effects. It's a refusal to take part to a mainstream movement to defend other values. Even the one of being an outsider among outsiders like Marîd.
For my part, I'm not against new technologies or modifications - in the contrary - but I'm more waiting to have a real use of it (one of my mottos - it's not because it exists that we have to use it) or to get a more developed technology.

[Stephane]

Kc wrote: "Q4. There was a theme of nature (what is natural - emotions/bodily functions) - what other examples were there in the theme of nature vs synthetic?"
I didn't perceive this theme very well - in fact it's a very urban setting, drugs and bodily modifications are a big part of the novel. It's maybe this lack of contact to the nature or to a more favourable environment, that gives this will to experiment more intense sensations via artificial enhancement. The "Fall" pursues on a headlong rush that is not toward natural innocence.

[Anne]

Kc wrote: "Stephane wrote: "Q1. I was surprised to read that the story is supposed to take place near the end of the 22nd century (published in 1986 though). Year 2015, I'd set the story in maybe 20 years fro..."
I already read the 2nd book in the series and have downloaded the 3rd! Loved them.

[Anne]

Stephane wrote: "Kc wrote: "Stephane wrote: "Q0. Our traditional first impressions on the book. Did you like it ?"

I found it a gripping crime novel and read it very quickly. The sci-fi elements were a big part of..."

I reckon the technology is definitely not far away but the collapse of "empires" and the break down of countries into independent countries is rather scary. Having said that we have already seen the breakdown of the Soviet Union into the independent states they were before 1918. It is not unthinkable that the US and Western Europe might not follow... The Middle East is also fractured and nationalism is on the rise. Interesting times.

[Anne]

Stephane wrote: "Kc wrote: "Stephane wrote: "Q2. The manipulation of moddies is quite sensitive. Would you use such a technology ? For which application and whose personality would you like to experiment ?"

Mmm. g..."

I found the idea of the Moddies & Daddies interesting. Like the Audran I would be unwilling to surrender my "mind" and have it controlled or not feel in control. However, I can see that there could be some ways that such technology could be used in positive ways to help people learn, to enable empathy and be able to understand the way different cultures think and see the world. If students were studying a novel, for example, being able to plug in a moddie to help them get inside the character would be great. Or when discussing history what a great primary resource it could be. However, as we see in the novel there are so many ways that the technology can be abused and misused.

[Rick]

A1- I'm glad you asked this question. I actually didn't like it. I started the book and got in about 1/4 and found I just couldn't keep going. I wasn't gripped by the plot, I thought the world was too strange, and I didn't feel connected to the main character.

I appreciate the opportunity to say something in the discussion, but I'm sorry it's not very helpful to the overall group.