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The Talisman Ring
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The Talisman Ring Group Read March 2023 SPOILER Thread
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I finished it this morning and wished it could have been longer. Every time I read it I love it more. It's definitely the funniest book she's written. In chapter 10 when Sarah is pretending to be Ludovic and the Runners chase and catch her and then she's trying to explain to Hugh what she was doing out and Tristram joins in had me in stitches!!! I was laughing out loud. Sir Hugh hasn't a clue what's going on at any time but his replies and his comments fit in perfectly. He provided most of the comedy and the book wouldn't have been the same without him.
Teresa wrote: "I finished it this morning and wished it could have been longer. Every time I read it I love it more. It's definitely the funniest book she's written. In chapter 10 when Sarah is pretending to be L..."I think that is the best scene in the book!
It's hilarious isn't it :):)
Ah wrote: "Which is why they don't annoy me. Plus I love the way GH makes a shared joke with the reader when Sarah says something with a straight face that Eustacie takes at face value ."who does not play someone else in this story? - Sarah with Eustacie, Sarah with Tristram, and Tristram with all of them. The Beau with everyone, and we are never sure about Sir Hugh. and so on ... what I like about GH is that some of the play-acting is open to the reader, and in some cases she leaves the reader to guess who is playing whom, and on what level. She carefully remains outside her characters and lets us only see what the other players can see.
I do love Sarah's relationship with her brother, and as Susan in NC said, she prefers the comfort and freedom she has travelling and living with him to making a match just to be married. Now, Hugo hasn't looked for a wife yet, and on the surface, that might be due to his leisurely nature, and how much he cares for Sarah, but he is not dumb, and I think that he does want her to be happy and not settle. He realizes that the connection between Sarah and Tristam is growing stronger, which he comments by saying that Tristam is at the inn so often that he just about lives there.
The old Lord remarks that he always intended Eustacie for Ludovic, which must be to keep the wealth in the family, because he couldn't have known that they would until having rescued her from France.
sabagrey wrotewho does not play someone else in this story?
yes, it's brilliant. I'm at the point where the landlord, Nye, in his role as just a landlord, is setting Sir Hugh onto the hapless bow street runners, Mr. Peabody and Mr. Stubbs.
I have to like them both, and especially enjoyed Mr. Stubbs telling Basil's valet Gregg that his information was "spiteful" and they could tell that "someone" wanted Ludovic "put away quiet".
We've had Bow Street runners used for comic affect in other books, but I think these two are the best, so well-drawn!
Mod
Oh, and by the way, one of her favourite scenarios - the party holed up at an inn or farmhouse with one of them injured or ill. How many books does that appear in?
Jenny wrote: "the party holed up at an inn or farmhouse with one of them injured or ill. How many books does that appear in? "I count four others - and a fifth one where no-one is ill or injured (view spoiler)
sabagrey wrote: "I must be getting old, because I've noticed that I am becoming more and more tolerant of GH's young & silly heroines. I can even bring myself to consider their antics and their outrageous fantasies believable."I feel the same way, a few years ago I probably would have DNF'd because of Eustacie's silliness in the beginning. But now I didn't mind it, and I think GH was going for an almost Oscar Wilde vibe here, with some of her dialogue.
Teresa wrote: "In chapter 10 when Sarah is pretending to be Ludovic and the Runners chase and catch her and then she's trying to explain to Hugh what she was doing out and Tristram joins in had me in stitches!!!"... and the good thing with a re-read of this book is that you begin to giggle way ahead of the funny bits because you know what's coming.
ꕥ AngeLivesToRead ꕥ wrote: "sabagrey wrote: "I must be getting old, because I've noticed that I am becoming more and more tolerant of GH's young & silly heroines. I can even bring myself to consider their antics and their out..."I agree about Eustacie and originally Ludovic annoyed me because he did what he wanted without thought of the consequences for anyone else. I still find him a very selfish character but didn't mind Eustacie as much this time.
And here is the line I do not understand - quite at the end of the book: How many seasons have you spent at Almack’s?’
Miss Thane gazed at him with an expression of outrage in her face, and said: ‘Tristram, are you daring – actually daring – to choose this out of all other moments to make me an offer?’
Why does Sarah understand the question about the number of seasons at Almack's as a proposal?
Mod
How many seasons have you spent at Almack’s?’ ...
Why does Sarah understand the question about the number of seasons at Almack's as a proposal?..."
It's in Ch8, when she is asking Tristram why he ever contemplated marrying Eustacie. She then starts advising on him where to get a better bride, suggesting that someone older would suit him, and tells him
"I dare say I could find you a dozen to choose from whose Mamas have long since ceased to take them to the 'Marriage Market'. After a certain number of seasons they have to yield place to younger sisters, you know"Originally Tristram is (quite understandably!) annoyed by Sarah's quizzing, but by referring back to it like this he demonstrates that he's acquired a sense of humour along the way.
I just finished it, and I enjoyed it more than ever. although there are many funny scenes I think my favorite is the fist fight at the Dower House, when Ludovic breaks in to look for his ring and Mr. Bundy keeps popping in at the window.
but the scene where Miss Thane fools the Runners is pretty good, too, although what she did actually seems dangerous if you think about it.
and finally, a family criminal who actually gets arrested instead of (view spoiler).
Jenny wrote: "It's in Ch8, when she is asking Tristram why he ever contemplated marrying Eustacie. ."Oh! thank you very much - I did not get that one.
Jackie wrote: "I just finished it, and I enjoyed it more than ever. although there are many funny scenes I think my favorite is the fist fight at the Dower House, when Ludovic breaks in to look for his ring and..."
Totally agree! I was thinking that about the "Miss Thane Fools the Runners" part as well, that she could have been hurt or shot, considering how riled up the Runners were at that point.
Jackie wrote: "I just finished it, and I enjoyed it more than ever. although there are many funny scenes I think my favorite is the fist fight at the Dower House, when Ludovic breaks in to look for his ring and..."
That was the second point I was going to make! A GH villain who faces the consequences of his actions. Although it could be argued that (spoiler for a GH Regency ahead) (view spoiler)
Jackie wrote: "I just finished it, and I enjoyed it more than ever. although there are many funny scenes I think my favorite is the fist fight at the Dower House, when Ludovic breaks in to look for his ring and..."
I loved that bit too Jackie with Bundy at the window. Especially when he 'was resting folded arms on the sill' I could picture it perfectly:)
Susan in Perthshire wrote: "There’s no doubt that this book showcases GH’s unparalleled expertise in every aspect of her writing craft .Yes, this really is a hugely fun story but so well written. Even though I find Ludovic somewhat annoying he is still such a breath of cheery good humour; all the characters provide perfect foils to each other. And it charges along at a terrific pace. Someone said it would make a good film - I agree, it would make a brilliant made-for-tv-film by the BBC (provided that they cast it right, and didn't give in to 'wokeness' which would lose the point).
sabagrey wrote: "Teresa wrote: "In chapter 10 when Sarah is pretending to be Ludovic and the Runners chase and catch her and then she's trying to explain to Hugh what she was doing out and Tristram joins in had me ..."I have re-read my Heyers so many times (on my third and fourth copies of some titles) that often I do not read the book start to finish but just pick out my favourite bits!
There's a scene in one of the televised Jeeves and Wooster shows where Bertie dresses up as the maid, Beryl I think, and Jeeves scolds "her". I thought of it when I read the part where Ludovich dresses as a maid. It's funny on the page but even better if you can visualize it happening. And the dialogue is, as usual for Heyer, really great. In the part where Sarah is escaping the Bow Street Runners, at first I thought that Tristram was part of the act, coming along to save her when he did. I agree with others that she was in danger of a severe beating right there. It didn't matter to me that Heyer wouldn't let that happen - I was worried about her and so relieved when ST showed up!
I expect though Sarah would have pulled off her hood and made them realise she was a woman if Tristan hadn't come along. Bit risky, but she seems to have weighed up the dangers and decided to go ahead anyway - perhaps Ludovic's light hearted attitude to problems had rubbed off on her!
GreyGirl wrote: "I expect though Sarah would have pulled off her hood and made them realise she was a woman if Tristan hadn't come along. Bit risky, but she seems to have weighed up the dangers and decided to go ah..."I think one of the complexities in Sarah's character was a reckless streak!
I think she was enjoying herself and didn't even think that she was taking a risk!!
I just got my library copy and jumped right in. I chortled happily through the first 80 pages--so many good bits that I had forgotten, such as this exchange between Sarah and her brother the morning after Eustacie (and Ludovic) arrive at the Red Lion:Sarah to Hugo "Should you mind remaining here for a time?" Hugo's reply "Not while the Chambertin lasts".
Too bad that Real Life demands made me put the book down.
Next up, of course, is Sarah's first meeting with Tristram--another gem!
Barb in Maryland wrote: "I just got my library copy and jumped right in. I chortled happily through the first 80 pages--so many good bits that I had forgotten, such as this exchange between Sarah and her brother the mornin..."Oh, I know what you mean Barb, I remembered the general story, but my last read was long enough past that many scenes were a happy surprise! So much fun!
Teri-K wrote: "There's a scene in one of the televised Jeeves and Wooster shows where Bertie dresses up as the maid, Beryl I think, and Jeeves scolds "her". I thought of it when I read the part where Ludovich dre..."I think that brand of screwball comedy must have been really popular in Heyer and Wodehouse's day. If you like Bertie Wooster but tire of his brainlessness at times, there's a great new mystery series featuring a hero in the model of Bertie Wooster. The Case of the Canterfell Codicil is the first.
I don't have time right now to reread this but just seeing the title starts me guffawing about Eustacie, riding ventre-à-terre to her death bed, and the whole tumbrel to the guillotine. I can see and hear her passionate melodrama! I only came to appreciate just how funny her character is when a I reached a certain maturity. When first read as a young adult she just irritated me.
Another thing I enjoy is the whole deathbed promises, inheritance, missing and/or suitable heirs themes, among my faves.
QNPoohBear wrote: "I think that brand of screwball comedy must have been really popular in Heyer and Wodehouse's day. If you like Bertie Wooster but tire of his brainlessness at times, there's a great new mystery series featuring a hero in the model of Bertie Wooster. The Case of the Canterfell Codicil is the first"I never tire of Bertie, he always makes me laugh. But I'll certainly check out the series you mention. There can never be enough humor in life, I think. Thanks for recommending it!
Teri-K wrote: "QNPoohBear wrote: "I think that brand of screwball comedy must have been really popular in Heyer and Wodehouse's day. If you like Bertie Wooster but tire of his brainlessness at times, there's a gr..."Oh, same here - humor is essential, I find, to get through the rougher patches of life - learned that from my mother! Thank goodness, my husband has a very dry sense of humor. ;)
I joined the read because I haven't read this one since I was a teen. I did enjoy it this time around, although the romance was a little lacking for me. These days I'm too used to more 'modern' historical romances which have a lot more overt romance. Sarah didn't make an appearance till 25% through the book! And Sarah and Tristram didn't even kiss! (Although their sole embrace could be imagined/interpreted as a kiss, I suppose). There were a couple of brief kisses with Ludovic and Eustacie, but on the whole I found Eustacie pretty annoying, so their romance wasn't that interesting to me. So in that sense the book was a little disappointing. Weighing it all up though, it was still enjoyable, with the light (and easily predictable) mystery, the interesting side characters, and the humour and farce. There were definitely some very funny scenes. The romance was not the point of this book, and Heyer's light touch as a writer just carries the reader along.
The mystery wasn't the point of this book since there were really only two suspects and once we figured out (view spoiler).I thought the romance was not only fine, but very sweet.
Mod
I thought the romance was not only fine, but very sweet."
Yes, I think we have to consider this more as adventure / farce rather than a mystery or even romance. Ludovic and Eustacie's romance is only there to highlight their absurdity and we know as soon as we hear that Sarah has grey eyes that hers is the real love story. That Tristram's stuffiness and conventionality is worn down by the magnificent way Sarah deals with the extraordinary situation that Ludovic and Eustacie's romantic flights land them in does tie the story up neatly with the prospect of a HEA for them both, but it isn't the main plot.
This discussion has given me a better enjoyment of the book - I've always been too impatient with Eustacie's idiocy, but seeing her as a farcical character, there for comic effect, makes me appreciate her better.
Mod
"If," said Sir Tristram forcibly, "you would all of you rid yourselves of the notion that you are living within the pages of one of Mrs Radcliffe's romances, I should be grateful!"I always laugh when she makes the characters in her novels indignantly point out that they are not characters in a novel.
That is wonderful, Jenny!
Jenny wrote: "There's a little joke GH makes at the expense of her characters occasionally, when her plots become a bit extravagant, and it appears in this one:"If," said Sir Tristram forcibly, "you would all..."
I love this, too. When she does this I feel like she's giving the reader a wink - or rather the character speaking the line is, saying, "Yes, of course it's unbelievable, but what do you expect? It's a novel!"
It's easy to forget that realism in novels is a fairly late development, and not the only way they can be written. Almost everything current is, even our fantasy novels are realistic in style, with all the details and explanations. But novels that follow other paths can be so fun to read, I think, if we remember to let go of those expectations of "making sense" and "behaving like real people". (I struggle with the second one sometimes.)
I also get a chuckle out of a related moment in one of the Regencies (I can't remember which, unfortunately) where a character exclaims "This is the nineteenth century!" with the implication, "We're modern, up-to-date people / it's not like we're living in the Middle Ages!" When of course Heyer and her original readers were living in the twentieth century.
Margaret wrote: "I also get a chuckle out of a related moment in one of the Regencies (I can't remember which, unfortunately) where a character exclaims "This is the nineteenth century!" with the implication, "We'r..."There's a moment with that line in the Poldark saga as well. Jeremy says it to his mother about something his father proposed he do. It has a slightly darker connotation than Heyer would include in her books.
I finished this yesterday in the nick of time for the monthly group read.I loved it! It was my 2nd time reading it. I remember it being a lot of fun the first time but I didn't remember most of the plot.
The humour is what makes it one of my favourites. I love books where I laugh out loud.
There was another book about smuggling and I thought there was a secret passageway all the way to the inn, and when Ludovic popped out in the house after being in the priest's hole, I was surprised because I mixed it up.
I love Sir Tristram. I found it funny that he is 31 and that age is portrayed as old and sensible - actually, my husband is 31 and is a lot like Tristram (not in looks, though, as he's blond) and needs a bit of silliness in his life haha :) I'm definitely more like Sarah.
Another thing about this book I didn't remember is that it takes place a lot earlier than most of her other Regency romances. I have a hard time thinking of the heroes all with long hair and the ladies in wider gowns instead of Empire-style.
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
The Case of the Canterfell Codicil (other topics)The Talisman Ring (other topics)
The Talisman Ring (other topics)
As to Eustacie and Ludovic: they remind me a lot of some Golden Retriever/Irish Setter mix puppies I once had. Impossibly cute, frantically energetic and VERY slow to mature.