Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion
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Another Country
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ColumbusReads wrote: "You look at this first section alone and all the taboo subjects you immediately encounter: bisexuality, adultery, racism and interracial love. You take bisexuality alone and how many people to this..."I wondered this myself with Rufus. i am still in book 1, only on chapter 1, and sadly it is taking me a long time to read this literature with both audiobook and eBook version. We do not have a copy at my work library of this one by James Baldwin.
I wondered if Rufus tackles with the bi/sexuality, or desires to be gay yet will stick with how society views it during this era and prefer to be with a woman that is not easy to be present with--white woman and black man in this era in NY. Eric was the one who introduced Rufus to that night, come home with me, and he sensed where it was going if he ate/drank with the man. It felt like obligation in this scene more than desire to be with the man or have intimate relations.
Marla-Tiye wrote: "Tricia wrote: "I spent the first 100 pages thinking Rufus was going to be the focus character until it became clear he could not be... I'm only at 150, so I got a ways to go."Sean,
I admire your..."
I did not get to the part of suicide yet. I am reading/listening to the part of meeting Cass and her husband Richard.
Hi Adrienna,It's too late to prevent a spoiler alert for you; we are in Week Four according to our reading schedule. However, you may share anything that you glean from the text.
Enjoy the holiday weekend.
Marla-Tiye wrote: "Hi Adrienna,It's too late to prevent a spoiler alert for you; we are in Week Four according to our reading schedule. However, you may share anything that you glean from the text.
Enjoy the holid..."
Thanks. Plan to enjoy the Monday off, weekends go so fast and will do the most.
While in chapter 1, I see the struggle that Rufus is keep trying to convince himself and telling Eric, "I am not that boy" which makes me wonder if he can be true to that statement.
Sorry for the spoiler, Adrienna...What do you guys think of the title? It's signifigance?
Is it me or does the mention of Native Son and a published unlikable character named Richard seem like "shade"?
Tricia wrote: "Is it me or does the mention of Native Son and a published unlikable character named Richard seem like "shade"?"Dear Sean and Adrienna,
You present excellent points regarding this particular literature. I contend that Baldwin did not have a healthy relationship with his father. Would you agree that his rapport with Richard Wright was a direct reflection of how Baldwin felt about his dad, at least at the subconscious level? Why or why not? Wright was older than Baldwin and he was his mentor. Do you feel that Baldwin betrayed Wright? Why or why not?
Tricia wrote: "Sorry for the spoiler, Adrienna...What do you guys think of the title? It's signifigance?"
I got there this morning...on audiobook. No worries on spoiler alert. If I wanted none, I would not read the comments.
One problem is that few black voices were celebrated in this time. Baldwin and Wright "made it". I think the big problem is black authors wrote reviews of thier fellow writers works back then. Baldwin trashed Native Son and Wright's protagonist Bigger Thomas. He also did the same to Langston Hughes for Select Poems. Wright is guilty of this too (Thier Eyes Were Watching God by Hurston). Hurston repayed the favor. I think this made all of them rivals. Also, they had different visions of how black characters should be depicted and even the purpose of novels (entertainment vs social protest). As I said, I never read Baldwin until the last 4 years because his opposition to Wright. Ironically, I met someone recently who loved Hurston and could never read Wright because of his scathing review of her work. What if the could have been allies for real?
I am still reading chapter 1; yet audiobook I am on chapter 3 of book 1. The eBook I am reading slower for some reason. Yet, what is disturbing to me is Rufus beating on Leona. Why! Is it because he cannot accept who he truly is, or what's to be with and beats on her for it. Viv, admits that he will not beat her or kill her; he would kill himself. Isn't it ironic that Rufus did just that? Did anyone gather to why?
Tricia wrote: "One problem is that few black voices were celebrated in this time. Baldwin and Wright "made it". I think the big problem is black authors wrote reviews of thier fellow writers works back then. Bald..."I thought they were friends during the Harlem Renaissance but see they wrote bad reviews about each other work is startling to me. Why would Blacks bash one another? Yet it reminds me of the crab mentality, where rappers dissed each other back in the 80-90s to get on top or to get recognition in the rap game. Children in school will "rib" or "crack jokes" on others when really they are not building them up but breaking their self-esteem.
I learned about Hurston, Langston Hughes, when I was in advanced english in my last two years of high school--especially first time reading Wright. Yet, we did not read Baldwin. When I took a year later in college courses after h.s., African Poetry, we did Langston Hughes and learned about Chester Chimes, and others but again, I am just now reading Baldwin. I wonder if it is because of his sexuality.
I don't think it was as simple as crabs in a barrel. I think everyone had the same goal but didn't agree on how that was achieved. Ex. Native Son shows how American racism made of some black people into the monsters they claimed we were, this showing America itself and its guilt. Baldwin didn't agree with making a black character that was an animal or a monster. He wanted to present our humanity. Wright didn't like the Hurston's use of dialect. He wanted to show black literary prowess by writing characters who could use "proper English". He wanted us to present as as good by thier standards. Everyone was trying to protect what we revealed of ourselves in the 1960s
Sean,You sagaciously stated, 'Wright didn't like the Hurston's use of dialect. He wanted to show black literary prowess by writing characters who could use "proper English".'
However, I contend that Hurston's use of dialect makes her characters authentic and genuine. I utilize this same literary element with my writing, as well. Sadly, denigration is fueled by the majority of the African diaspora due to White Supremacy and it is called, Epigenetics.
Epigenetics is the study of how your behaviors and environment can cause changes that affect the way your genes work. Unlike genetic changes, epigenetic changes ...
authentic voices, places, and dialect may be so to accomplish. I knew I grew up where we had to use proper English, and knocked by black people for sounding white. I'm from Chicago, and we have a little southern drawl in it so I get the points both Mary and Sean made
Marla, I agree with you 100%. But it's 2023 and easier to feel comfortable with AAVE and not worried about your whole race being judged as inarticulate because of your use of dialect in the 1940s, 50s or 60s. Everything about that time was moved by white supremacy. Remember, in Natchez, Mississippi... Richard couldn't use the public library and wasn't properly celebrated until he moved to Paris.
Sean,You stated, "Marla, I agree with you 100%. But it's 2023 and easier to feel comfortable with AAVE and not worried about your whole race being judged as inarticulate because of your use of dialect in the 1940s, 50s or 60s. Everything about that time was moved by white supremacy."
I want to keep this 100. I have to disagree with your comments because post President Obama, crimes enveloped due to White Supremacy have escalated exponentially. Modern times are exceedingly similar to those during Reconstruction. The MAGA movement is not just limited to the United States of America. Hence, democracy is in grave danger due to fascists worldwide. Remember, Nazism in Europe was stolen from a playbook within the United States of America. Thus, the root of our nation is rotted with systemic racism from White Supremacy. Now that Europeans are the global minority, a rise in homophobia, Anti-Semitism, xenophobia and racism are exploding and imploding. The Jewry diaspora, melanated people, LGBTQIA and people outside of traditional religions are experiencing inordinate terrorism. I'd be remiss to omit the overwhelming book bans by the previous mentioned communities. My proud Howard University alumnae: Dr. Frances Cress Welsing attested to her theory regarding the fear of genetic annihilation, as White Supremacists continue to do via their "Replacement Theory." Her book: "The Isis Papers: The Keys to the Colors" is a must read.
So, don't get too comfortable thinking that 2023 is a safe place and space because Roe versus Wade was overturned last year. It makes you ponder what other laws could be revoked. Vigilance is key. It would be marvelously miraculous if these oppressed groups would coalesce. This is my hope to overcome and defeat this demeaning and burgeoning regime.
Thanks for sharing.
I wasn't talking about any freedoms allowed us. I am speaking to the freedom we allow ourselves.
I was speaking about both of these concepts.Thanks, Sean.
Any thoughts on the liberals who could "befriend" Rufus and Ida but not want to acquaint themselves with thier ire at the racism they deal with in America?
Greetings, Cosmic Family!I can't believe that it has been four weeks. Where does the time go?
Betrayals permeate this dystopian story of love, anguish and trying to fit in the world. All of the characters are moving "Towards Bethlehem" as the title of Book Three suggests. Hence the characters’ wish for a journey from the world of pain and anguish toward a world of happiness and fulfillment in love. Having rejected traditional barriers of family, race, country, religion and sex, they are progressing towards a discovery of their own ‘moral centers’ which ultimately hold the promise of a new and total understanding of themselves. Does everyone feel that this is art imitating life because we tend to do the same thing whether our vices are indulging in opioids, sex, alcohol, overeating and a myriad of other self-destructive behaviors?
I deliberately did not read any of the threads on this text in 2017 because I wanted to keep a fresh perspective inside this forum. For the readership who attended the 2017 discourse, how does this current book discussion's trajectory differ on "Another Country?"
I am not liking book 2 while on the drive home yesterday. I might bypass this one and see what book 3 has to give.
Adrienna wrote: "I am not liking book 2 while on the drive home yesterday. I might bypass this one and see what book 3 has to give."What repulsed you about "Book Two", Adrienna?
Thanks for sharing your insights with us.
just a preference that I prefer not to share.
“Last Words,” as one of my favorite musicians and poets: Jim Morrison of the Doors would say. Dear readership, now is the time to share your exposition of this wonderful and multidimensional reading. This is the second book discussion held on “Another Country,” so has anyone gleaned a new perspective on Baldwin by having another literary interpretation of his text? If this is your first time apprehending this great selection, what did you enjoy most about it and why? What is your favorite Baldwin trope and why? I look forward to everyone’s insights and I enjoy being your literary hostess during the month of February.
Hello All:I love to end anything on a high note, if you are in New Orleans, check out this brilliant bookstore. Please read and share this link: Oprah's Book Club recommended Baldwin & Co www.baldwinandcobooks.com
Baldwin & Co.
Shoutouts to NOLA's Baldwin & Co. Bookstore from Oprah's ...
which is an ode to the magnanimous James Baldwin.
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I love to end anything on a high note, if you are in New Orleans, check out this brilliant bookstore. Please read and share this link: Oprah's Book Club recommended Baldwin & Co www.bal..."
I would love to visit Baldwin & Co. on my next visit to New Orleans. The name alone is reason to go. Are you in Nawlins, Marla-Tiye?
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I love to end anything on a high note, if you are in New Orleans, check out this brilliant bookstore. Please read and share this link: Oprah's Book Club recommended Baldwin & Co www.bal..."
ColumbusReads wrote: "Marla-Tiye wrote: "Hello All:
I love to end anything on a high note, if you are in New Orleans, check out this brilliant bookstore. Please read and share this link: Oprah's Book Club recommended B..."
My name/handle on most social media sites is GiovanniColtrane which is used to show my love for Baldwin & John Coltrane. My NetGalley name is even more clear: GiovanniBaldwin.
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Remember, this thread will remain open to add comments whenever you like.
Take care all and happy reading!
Hi Columbus,No, I don't. When I am in New Orleans, this wonderful place will be first on my list to visit. I must thank Oprah Winfrey for her kudos to this business.
ColumbusReads wrote: "Wonderful discussion, all! Really thought-provoking and insightful comments. Thanks so much (again) for leading the discussion, Marla-Tiye. Really enjoyed it. ..I think this is the genius at his fi..."Dear Columbus,
I am very humbled by your statements because I learned and I am still learning from you, Baldwin and others. I think learning is a life-long process and I want to continue to gain as much knowledge as possible until I take my last breath.
Thank you again for creating this wonderful forum and I wish you continued success!
Dearest Columbus,I am reposting this message because William accidentally deleted my last post. Anyway, you brilliantly stipulated, "My name/handle on most social media sites is GiovanniColtrane which is used to show my love for Baldwin & John Coltrane. My NetGalley name is even more clear: GiovanniBaldwin."
Because of your name/handle, I was enticed to join this fabulous and much needed book club. Keep on keeping on because you are making such a powerful and significant difference in our lives. Columbus, we have so much in common when it comes to artists. If you have time, you should check out my book because my last chapter of "Jasmine Breeze" is entitled, "A Love Supreme" an ode to Coltrane.
Peace and blessings to you always!
You brilliantly professed, "Their love for/of Rufus connected them and it forced them to contend with their true selves."
You articulated the impetus of Rufus' role dead or alive. I share your same sentiments; I want to know if there is a literary term too. I briefly researched a possible literary device for this work and I think that it could be Dramatic Irony. What are your thoughts?