Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion
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Another Country
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Starter Thread for "Another Country"
I just finished the audiobook this morning. I’m so glad you will be teasing apart this book throughout the month. I will need a second reading to begin to process it all. Thank you for leading this discussion. I look forward to it.
I'm on a book buying ban so I thought I would be able to participate this month... then a book Fairy on Tik Tok sent me Another Country and Go Tell It on the Mountain! I am so happy! I'm in!
Tricia wrote: "I'm on a book buying ban so I thought I would be able to participate this month... then a book Fairy on Tik Tok sent me Another Country and Go Tell It on the Mountain! I am so happy! I'm in!"Yay Sean! Congratulations!
Tracey wrote: "I just finished the audiobook this morning. I’m so glad you will be teasing apart this book throughout the month. I will need a second reading to begin to process it all. Thank you for leading this..."Dear Tracey,
I look forward to your insights. Take your time; participate when you are ready.
Have a great day!
Mod
Wow! You are loved, Sean! 💙
Mod
So glad that it’s James Baldwin being featured this month. He’s without a doubt my favorite author of all time: Black, queer, fearless, autodidact, brilliant, quick-witted, sophisticated.
Without delving into the story or giving too much away. Rufus is called confused, tortured, troubled, complicated and self-loathing -among others…I guess the word they all were trying to find was fascinating. I have found something most profoundly different in his character each time I’ve read the book. I guess it’s a combination of picking up things I missed the previous time(s) and me growing as a reader, maybe? Because as we know the book doesn’t change.
I’m so glad you are leading the discussion this month, Marla-Tiye of what I consider an extraordinary book. I hope those that are contemplating joining in will just take the plunge and read it with us. You’ll be glad you did.
ColumbusReads wrote: "Happy Black History Month everyone! So glad that it’s James Baldwin being featured this month. He’s without a doubt my favorite author of all time: Black, queer, fearless, autodidact, brilliant, ..."
Dearest Columbus,
Thank you for allowing me to host such an iconic and transformative author. I totally agree that we are evolving as readers because often by rereading a selection, we gain a new perspective. James Baldwin entered my life in high school when I selected his novel: "Go Tell It on the Mountain." I have been hooked to Baldwin ever since! As a writer, I avow that I will always combat racism, homophobia and religious oppression. Hence, this is my literary core to wage war with my words, especially living in such a socially toxic environment that has an aversion to inclusive diversity. Baldwin had immense courage because he deeply discussed homosexuality when it was not in fashion. An octillion kudos to him for being a guiding light for social justice for all.
Columbus, thank you for creating this wonderful and powerful forum for us! You are an absolute gem!!!!
Mod
Below, please view the recommended reading schedule. I look..."
You raise some really interesting questions here. Lot’s to unpack.
I had no idea he wrote this book while in Turkey. I just figured back in ‘48 he was still stationed in Greenwich Village with quick forays into Paris every now and then. Obviously I need to reread his bio.
Turkey is one of those places that challenge us when we’re deciding if an author from there has the distinction of being considered a writer of color for book polls. I’ve also read very few books where Turkey is a setting. The first couple of chapters of Murder On The Orient Express and a few others. Never read the Bastard Of Istanbul but I want to. Hmmm.
Columbus,I just learned this fact myself from some extra research. Please peruse the following links:
James Baldwin Might Have Been Most at Home in Istanbul
Literary Hub
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https://lithub.com › james-baldwin-might...
Mar 29, 2019 — It was while in Istanbul that Baldwin would write his most American works, including Another Country, The Fire Next Time, and No Name in the ...
James Baldwin's decade in Turkey
TRT World
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https://www.trtworld.com › Magazine
Jun 16, 2020 — The activist and author spent ten years off and on in Turkey, mingling with the intelligentsia, working on his manuscripts, and stepping ...
Cheers!
Mod
I just learned this fact myself from some extra research. Please peruse the following links:
James Baldwin Might Have Been Most at Home in Istanbul
Literary Hub
·
https://lithub.com › ..."
This is great. Thank you!
Isn't it?!My pleasure, Columbus! Baldwin is so magnificent...the more we learn about him.
Columbus,Have you been to Turkey? This is a place that I want to visit only because of James Baldwin.
Mod
Have you been to Turkey? This is a place that I want to visit only because of James Baldwin."
No, never have been. I would love to go though. Have you read any literature based in Turkey.
Not yet, but I adore Turkish cuisine.
Dear brilliant bookworms, there is an adage that “Hurt people, hurt people.” How does this apply to the protagonist Rufus Scott and what evidence do we have premised upon the literature that childhood trauma caused his suicide and harsh abuse towards Leona? Blatant contradictions exist within Rufus for having intimate and trustful relationships with Whites: Vivaldo Moore, Eric, and Leona. Are these relationships conflicting and detrimental to Rufus because he despises White Supremacy? Why or why not? Rufus yells a hateful and rageful affirmation, so Vivaldo can hear it: ‘white sons of bitches out there’ (67) who were trying to kill him. He wished the bomb would drop on the city and kill them all. In spite of the mélange of characters, the themes of racism and blatant bisexuality, which ethos resonates with you and why? Ida Scott, Rufus' overbearing and judgmental sister, blames all of Rufus’ woes on Leona. (102). However, there is a time when all of us need to have culpability for our actions and outcomes, in spite of our respective environments. Who wants to elaborate on the topics of alcoholism, homelessness and job insecurity? Does society not have any impact on these social ramifications, why or why not?
Happy Sunday, All!Just a caveat because I caught my opinion, or my interpretation in my last posting. I quote, "Ida Scott, Rufus' overbearing and judgmental sister..." You might disagree with me because someone might concur that Ida is simply a devoted younger sister who is very overprotective of her big brother. Please peruse my evidence from the text: "quality so mysteriously and implacably egocentric that no one has ever been able to name it" (253). Please be mindful that Ida is also extremely physically beautiful.
Let's have a proactive debate.
Mod
Columbus,I couldn't agree more! You brilliantly stipulated, "The fact that Baldwin had the audacity to raise such controversial issues at that time was mind blowing."
Baldwin was also very close to an alleged member of the LGBTQIA community: the brilliant playwright: Lorraine Hansberry. These two artists were artistic revolutionaries to the hilt. I deem that members of the LGBTQIA community are still struggling because many are not accepted by their families, friends or religious institutions. Thus, suicides within our LGBTQIA community is primarily due to ostracism.
In regards to bisexuality, I think that it is a tangible way of being due to people that I personally know. Thus, homosexuality is a different lifestyle. As a writer, I am vexed because I blame most religiosity to be the causation and trepidation of our LGBTQIA communities. There are a plethora of religions: Shinto and Santeria to name a few around the world and we should also extol our atheist and agnostic brothers and sisters. Shamanism is practiced mostly by Indigenous cultures: Celtic (Druid), Native American, Māori and others. Unfortunately, we have an international White Supremacist Christian Movement waging war on our Jewry populations and other People of Color. This religious right wing evangelical movement is a direct result of demographic changes where People of Color are now the dominant population on Earth. It is so sad because all religions are designed to unify humanity with our surrounding environments, but so many have made religion a perverse and separatist entity. Baldwin was definitely ahead of his time preparing our world to deal with change which is our only constant. Please feel free to peruse this NPR link:
Inside the Global Fight for White Power
Reveal | from The Center for Investigative Reporting
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https://revealnews.org › i...
Jul 23, 2022 — Newsy senior investigative reporter Mark Greenblatt interviews a leader of the group who says RIM's goal is to unite White nationalists around ...
Happy Reading!
Hello All:Speaking of Baldwin's muse: Turkey for writing "Another Country" and other artistic works, Turkey had a terrible earthquake yesterday close to its border with Syria. Let's send them some prayers and positive energy and hope that there are not too many casualties.
Peace and Love.
Mod
I couldn't agree more! You brilliantly stipulated, "The fact that Baldwin had the audacity to raise such controversial issues at that time was mind blowing."
Baldwin was also very close..."
Thanks so much for sharing this article!
Mod
William, has Baldwin always been our avatar or image atop the group site or was there something else originally? I seem to recall this is a replacement Baldwin photo also from what we had originally, no?
Hello Columbus...I'm not going to read this again (3rd time) this month...but my thoughts from the 2017 discussion are in the link i posted above....I cant recall if the photo was replaced although I think the group started with a group photo of only Af-am writers.
Mod
Oh that’s right, we discussed this before. You just wait until you get my age you’ll be forgetting things too.
Mod
Speaking of Baldwin's muse: Turkey for writing "Another Country" and other artistic works, Turkey had a terrible earthquake yesterday close to its border with Syria. Let's send them som..."
Marla-Tiye, somehow I missed this earlier when you posted. I was just about to mention the earthquake, too. Unfortunately there seems to be quite a few casualties. Sad.
ColumbusReads wrote: "Marla-Tiye wrote: "Columbus,I couldn't agree more! You brilliantly stipulated, "The fact that Baldwin had the audacity to raise such controversial issues at that time was mind blowing."
Baldwin ..."
My pleasure!
ColumbusReads wrote: "Marla-Tiye wrote: "Hello All:Speaking of Baldwin's muse: Turkey for writing "Another Country" and other artistic works, Turkey had a terrible earthquake yesterday close to its border with Syria. ..."
Columbus, it is sad. I think over 4,300 people have perished so far. It is a horrible tragedy in alignment with our reading this month. Wow!
William wrote: "Hello Columbus...I'm not going to read this again (3rd time) this month...but my thoughts from the 2017 discussion are in the link i posted above....I cant recall if the photo was replaced although..."Welcome, William.
Do you deem that the degrees of acceptance of our LGBTQIA communities are premised upon culture? Why or why not? For instance, most Afro-Americans and Latinos are not as embracing of this particular lifestyle, as Euro-Americans are. Do you agree with this assertion? Why or why not? I blame religiosity for the ostracism regarding our LGBTQIA communities which transcends all ethnicities.
I look forward to your insights.
Mod
Columbus,Thank you for such poignant and powerful questions! I think that his travels to Turkey definitely influenced the book's title.
Marla-Tiye wrote: "ColumbusReads wrote: "Marla-Tiye wrote: "Hello All:Speaking of Baldwin's muse: Turkey for writing "Another Country" and other artistic works, Turkey had a terrible earthquake yesterday close to i..."
The death toll in Turkey alone is 23,000 and growing.
Mod
Thank you for such poignant and powerful questions! I think that his travels to Turkey definitely influenced the book's title. I deem that his first chapter was adopted from the film, "E..."
Was Easy Rider the movie originally a book? Because Jimmy (ya’ll didn’t know we were on a first name basis) wrote this in ‘62, right?
Mod
Speaking of Baldwin's muse: Turkey for writing "Another Country" and other artistic works, Turkey had a terrible earthquake y..."
Yes, I just happened to walk pass the tv and buildings were falling. It was awful. Traumatic. So very sad.
Columbus,I don't think so, because the only books that I know associated with this title were published in the 1990's. The screenplay was only published after the film. This is a conundrum. What does everyone else believe why Baldwin selected, "Easy Rider?"
Hello Cosmic Family:I always watch MSNBC and one of my favorite journalists is Joy Reid. She shared a wonderful interview with Baldwin celebrating Black History Month today. Enjoy! Please feel free to make any comments on this wonderful segment.
James Baldwin and the threat of 'Black English'
MSNBC News
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https://www.msnbc.com › reidout-blog
8 hours ago — James Baldwin's 1979 essay demanding respect for Black language helps explain right-wing ... The ReidOut Blog ... Feb. 8, 2023, 12:37 PM PST.
Happy Super Bowl Weekend and Pre-Valentines' Day, everyone! I am so excited because I reside in Phoenix, Arizona where the action is happening...Love and football in the air, how apropos. LOL!As authors, Baldwin and I share common literary themes: conflicting attitudes towards bisexuality/homosexuality shrouded in secrecy, substance abuse and the negative effects on society due to European colonization. Eric feels a ‘sour and savage apprehension’ (119). He does not want to leave Europe and is worried what the move will do to his relationship with Yves. Do you contend that Eric epitomizes the nuances and intricacies enveloped with bisexuality, especially returning to the United States from France? Why or why not? How do his infidelities make you feel and why? In what way would you tie Eric’s expatriate experiences with Baldwin’s title? Finally, how would you compare Eric to Cass? Who has more self-control in regards to cheating and why? After his shift, Cass invites him for a drink. Vivaldo is taken aback by her youthful appearance, reminding him of when she was ‘the most beautiful, the most golden girl on earth’ (171).
Marla-Tiye wrote: "Happy Black History Month and Chinese New Year: the year of the Rabbit, Book Lovers! I am honored to host another book club discussion. Below, please view the recommended reading schedule. I look..."
These are such thought-provoking questions. I needed to take a minute to consider them. First, I knew Baldwin was a genius, but I couldn't comprehend the vast stretches of his genius. The character development in this novel is the best I've ever experienced.
Second, the casualties have now topped 33,000 in Turkey and Syria. And to think that such devastation could have been avoided. This Time article appeared on my feed a couple of days ago:
https://time.com/6254024/turkey-syria...
Finally, I do agree with Rufus' despair. We've endured incessant trauma since 1619. I read these questions soon after the Tyre Nichols incident and thought it answered your question of Black men being self-destructive in a horrific way. I think, essentially, racism is the same ball of wax it's always been; but because it's documented quickly on social media, we see more of it. Society seeing more of it is making white supremacists extremely uncomfortable and desperate. If racism has evolved, it's been in speed, information, and access to witness it. I think our nation is progressing towards cultural pluralism because it doesn't have a choice anymore. Yes, it's a one step forward, one step back type of cycle, but assimilation is now an illusion. Plus I think climate change events are happening so frequently that we can't linger too long on old fantasies. We are at the "Ain't nobody got time for that!" stage. I think we're learning how to push forward and hold folks accountable at the same time. In regards to other countries, if assimilation is taking place, it's due to oppressed cultures becoming self-determined.
Whoa, Tiffany! You brilliantly professed, "First, I knew Baldwin was a genius, but I couldn't comprehend the vast stretches of his genius. The character development in this novel is the best I've ever experienced.
Second, the casualties have now topped 33,000 in Turkey and Syria. And to think that such devastation could have been avoided."
Tiffany your profundity and brilliance shine like our closest star. Thank you for discussing 1619 and Tyre Nichols. Most importantly, I am most impressed with your optimism in the midst of these recurrent dark times. You empower melanized people around the world with hope and this attribute is simply priceless.
I greatly appreciate your magnanimous insights!
THANK YOU, MARLA-TIYE! Your questions made me up my game! Flattery will get you everywhere! :)
Tiffany wrote: "THANK YOU, MARLA-TIYE! Your questions made me up my game! Flattery will get you everywhere! :)"
Bless your heart; thank you, Tiffany! We are living in the midst of book bans geared towards melanized people and our LGBTQIA communities where the "Powers that be" are trying to hide great writers like James Baldwin from our youth and other institutions of learning. Let's keep the good fight, until the sickness of ignorance completely disappears.
Peace & blessings to you always!
@Columbus, I am reading but I'm only at page 100. I'm avoiding the conversation to try to miss any spoilers.I have previously read 2 other Baldwin works (very recently). I always avoided him because I read in Richard Wright's biography that he made himself a rival to Wright. Wright is the reason I am a reader so partial to him and protective of his work. This book actually some what feels like a Wright work like The Outsider. So far, so good.
Sean,I am thrilled that you like this particular book. I understand your perspective because I am a loyal fan of Baldwin.
Enjoy your weekend.
I will say... After reading The Fire Next Time, I regretted not having read him sooner. Wright seems to give the rawest telling of from where we come... Baldwin (especially when you consider when he wrote these books) prophetically told us where we were going.
I'm immediately struck by the unconventional relationships presented in this book, especially if I can place myself as a reader in 1962 (before I was born) and thinking of mainstream thought... Black man/ white woman, man/man... to some these would've been considered outrageous in that time. It make us see why Baldwin may not have been as celebrated in America as he deserved because America had not caught up.
Hello Cosmic Family,Do you feel that all of the characters are equally incorporated into the plot? Why or why not? Do you contend that some characters are peripheralized and should garner more engagement? Please share your evidence with pagination references. For example, you may choose to discuss the following personages: Eric on page (330), Yves on page (210) and Richard on page (371). Finally, would you agree that Baldwin’s characters are united through their love of the arts, in spite of their respective races, dramas and sexual orientations? Why or why not?
I hope that everyone has a fantastic weekend!
Tricia wrote: "I'm immediately struck by the unconventional relationships presented in this book, especially if I can place myself as a reader in 1962 (before I was born) and thinking of mainstream thought... Bla..."Sean, thank you for sharing how Baldwin was definitely ahead of his time which makes him such an iconic revolutionary in the literary world. His courage is to be commended!
IsabelNixon wrote: "After leaving my previous job 6 months ago, I've had some good luck to learn about this website which was a life-saver for me… They offer jobs for which people can work online from their house. My ..."Thanks for sharing this information with us, Isabel. Have you read our required literature this month?
I spent the first 100 pages thinking Rufus was going to be the focus character until it became clear he could not be... I'm only at 150, so I got a ways to go.
Tricia wrote: "I spent the first 100 pages thinking Rufus was going to be the focus character until it became clear he could not be... I'm only at 150, so I got a ways to go."Sean,
I admire your perseverance! Just because Baldwin lets his readership know that Rufus commits suicide early in the reading, I still think that he is the main character because most of the people are deeply connected to him. Thus, I have to disagree with your assertion.
What does everyone else think?
Tricia wrote: "I spent the first 100 pages thinking Rufus was going to be the focus character until it became clear he could not be... I'm only at 150, so I got a ways to go."I was surprised by that, too. And I like how Baldwin kept Rufus front of mind on every page afterward. I have to see if that's a literary tool. Their love for/of Rufus connected them and it forced them to contend with their true selves.
Below, please view the recommended reading schedule. I look forward to sharing this reading experience with you!
Suggested Reading Schedule for “Another Country”
• On February 1st, reply to our Prefatory Book question, then open the book and dive into the reading, begin reading Book One: “Easy Rider”~ Chapter 1
• By February 5th finish reading Book One: “Easy Rider ~Chapters 2 & 3
• By February 12th, begin reading Book Two: “Any Day Now” ~Chapters 1 & 2
• By February 19th, finish reading Book Two: “Any Day Now” ~Chapter 3 & 4
• By February 26th, begin Book Three “Toward Bethlehem” Chapters 1 & 2
• On February 28th finish reading the book and come back here to our discussion board to discuss final impressions and reflections
Amazingly, James Baldwin wrote “Another Country” while residing in Istanbul, Turkey. This part of the world was his muse for this novel. He viewed this particular place as a Utopian society for social amalgamation. Eurasia is geometrically connected to one another with only political and racial separations. Thus, Turkey lies on both continents: Europe and Asia. Baldwin witnessed the coalescing of Muslims and Christians when he lived in Istanbul. He also professed that Turkey is neither Black or White. Do you agree that Rufus’ deep despair stems from the fact that living in the United States of America is a dystopian civilization geared towards an incessant denigration of Afro-American men where Euro-Americans no longer have to commit genocide of Black men because Black men will eventually succumb to their own demises due to the constant pressures of living here? Why or why not? How has racism evolved in the U.S. since the 1960s? Do you think that our nation is progressing towards cultural pluralism or relapsing into Assimilation and why? Regarding other countries, like Italy and Brazil...being in alignment with our working title, or the book's namesake, how are these nations regressing pertaining to cultural diversity? Is the significant shift in global demographics a factor? Why or why not?