Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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T.J. wrote: "Still a fairly new award but it's judged by Wattpad's official Ambassadors, and every little helps :) Book: Gideon Drake and the Fire Within
Award name: Wattpad Amby Award
Categor..."
Done: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7.... It will take some time for the new data to appear on the book page.
The way this is on the web page, this award doesn't appear to have a clear winner. As such, it doesn't meet GR policy for awards. Award removed.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "The way this is on the web page, this award doesn't appear to have a clear winner. As such, it doesn't meet GR policy for awards. Award removed."Hi Elizabeth
I had a look at this one. I didn't pick up on the lack of a clear winner, but I was wondering about it being given by the site's Ambassadors.
To me, that would be the same as the Ambassadors in Help on Goodreads giving Awards. (& I wouldn't consider them awards if they did) & I know Wattpad does have official awards already.
Maybe staff need to rule on cases like this as well?
Interesting take on it, Carol. We each looked at different aspects. We have a lot of awards on the site with only one entry. That doesn’t mean those aren’t legitimate awards, but when there is no other book for an award, it should be a red flag for further research.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Interesting take on it, Carol. We each looked at different aspects. We have a lot of awards on the site with only one entry. That doesn’t mean those aren’t legitimate awards, but when there is not ..."Yes - & I don't know much about Wattpad or it's structure. But this did feel a lot like an unofficial award.
This is a little hurtful, folks. Having multiple winners per category or my being the first to think of adding the award here shouldn't be cause to make light of my achievement.While Wattpad's main awards are known as The Watty Awards, The Amby Awards was only established in 2021, so it's still new and growing. Unlike the Wattys, which are judged using machine learning, The Ambys are judged by Wattpad's officially recognised Ambassadors, who have to be approved by Wattpad and undergo training. The link I provided identifies the Amby Awards as an official entity by the verified status (tick) badge.
If GR librarians, who I think most users see as somewhat prestigious members of the GR/reading community, held a contest, I see no reason why the books they read and the winners they chose would not be worthy of the award bestowed upon them.
T.J. wrote: "This is a little hurtful, folks. Having multiple winners per category or my being the first to think of adding the award here shouldn't be cause to make light of my achievement.While Wattpad's ma..."
Hi T.J.
Sorry if your feelings are hurt. That was certainly not my intention.
Here are the rules for adding Awards on Goodreads.
https://help.goodreads.com/s/article/...
"Awards should have a clear winner"
This was a new situation for me (& we also have fairly new moderation in this group) so I took it as an opportunity to get guidance.
It never occurred to me that anything I said would hurt anyone's feelings. My "red flag" comment was really to any librarian tripping over this thread. Of the 259 pages of awards in the award module (https://www.goodreads.com/award?page=...) over half of them are awards with only 1 entry. I doubt seriously there are that many awards that actually fulfill Goodreads requirements.
The award *is* a significant achievement, you're right. But a clear winner rather than a group of winners is the criteria for Goodreads purposes. Those rules were set by staff. The folks that work on awards for the site certainly did not intend to offend; no one was making light of it. The conversation was about the Goodreads criteria and not the validity of the award itself.As an aside, I think Ambassadors on Help probably have different types of roles than those on Wattpad.
Emily wrote: "But a clear winner rather than a group of winners is the criteria for Goodreads purposes.""Awards should have a clear winner; ranked lists are generally not considered awards."
I believe this is a question of interpretation. A "clear" winner is not the same as "single" winner. The rule doesn't actually mention "a group of winners", it refers to "ranked lists" i.e. a group where there is some sort of identifiable order e.g. when a contest considers the 1st, 2nd, 3rd place entries as "winners".
In the case of The Ambys, the 4 winners in my category are not ranked in anyway and are considered to be on the same level. All 4 winners are "clear" winners.
Even if this point was questionable, I would point out that the rule also uses the word "generally", meaning there is wiggling room. This perhaps accounts for Elizabeth's mention of the "259 pages of awards..."
Regarding the Ambassadors, you're right. Wattpad generally doesn't communicate at all with its users. Ambassadors engage with the community on their behalf and run the user-focused aspects of the site such as approving books for reading lists and curating recommendations.
With these points in mind, I kindly ask that you reconsider.
T.J. wrote: "With these points in mind, I kindly ask that you reconsider."Just because other librarians have incorrectly entered awards, I won't be violating Goodreads policies. And I have worked my butt off for a dozen years on awards. At one time, I was pretty much doing all of the award entries (until I got burned out). I have literally entered more awards than any other librarian on the site.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "T.J. wrote: "With these points in mind, I kindly ask that you reconsider."I won't be violating Goodreads policies."
With respect, I'm not asking anyone to do so. I have pointed out how it seems the policy has been misinterpreted in this case. The "Clear winner" rule pertains to "ranked lists" not awards with multiple winners, hence the semicolon.
T.J. wrote: " The "Clear winner" rule pertains to "ranked lists" not awards with multiple winners, hence the semicolon."With all due respect, this assertion is completely wrong.
No the ranked list is simply an example of something that isn't considered an award, because it doesn't have a clear winner. It isn't the only thing.Perhaps one of the moderators could make the wording clearer.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Perhaps one of the moderators could make the wording clearer."There is nothing unclear about that portion of the manual. This author doesn't seem to understand the semi-colon isn't a comma.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "T.J. wrote: " The "Clear winner" rule pertains to "ranked lists" not awards with multiple winners, hence the semicolon."With all due respect, this assertion is completely wrong."
The policy rule says, "Awards should have a clear winner; ranked lists are generally not considered awards."
The "clear winner" rule certainly does pertain to "ranked lists".
A requirement for awards to have a single winner is not mentioned. Excluding awards where there are groups of/multiple winners is not mentioned. Could you please explain your interpretation?
Here is an example of the former moderator of this group (who was a very longstanding staff member) who interpreted this exactly the same way.https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
If you want to see other examples you can type no clear winner into the search bar.
It is permitted for awards that don't qualify for the award field to be added to the description. I don't do those edits any more but another librarian might.
T.J. wrote: "A requirement for awards to have a single winner is not mentioned."https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
and then I stopped searching previous posts.
So, hypothetically, if J.K. Rowling tied for an award with another author, her publicists wouldn't be allowed to list it on GoodReads? All because of the ambiguous policy language of "a clear winner" being interpreted to mean "a single winner"? That doesn't sound right in my humble opinion.Surely if the policy's mention of "a clear winner" actually means "a single winner", it would have just said that? If it does indeed mean that, perhaps it should be updated to say so, if only so you guys never have to face this problem again.
Anyway, thanks for your time. Now, who wants to help me add my characters? Lol...
You didn't read the links, I take it.The very unusual situation of a tie in a long-standing award has been allowed. But it is definitely an exception and comes up rarely. The Wattpad Amby Award doesn't come close to being an award that allows for such an exception - it's not even as if there are ties noted.
If there are two or three winners (gold and silver and/or bronze) of an award then does any of them qualify as a clear winner in accordance with the Goodreads policy? And if yes, how do I add that in edit mode? Sorry for the question but my mind is reeling from this extensive discussion and I'm also pretty new to the group.
Niki wrote: "If there are two or three winners of an award (gold and silver and/or bronze) then does any of them qualify as a clear winner (in accordance with the Goodreads policy)? And if yes how do I add that..."Hi Niki & welcome!
Before I started helping with awards, but the former moderator ruled that each of those were considered a winner. My opinion was that only the gold was the winner (same as the Olympics!) but I'm not Staff. It would be something I would love to see changed.
Example here https://www.goodreads.com/award/show/... & of course you will see that not all the awards given show this.
Probably best to make a separate thread if you have any other questions. :)
Edited to clarify.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "My opinion was that only the gold was the winner (same as the Olympics!) but I'm not Staff. It would be something I would love to see changed."I can agree with this. To me, the Silver is the first loser.
T.J. wrote: "Surely if the policy's mention of "a clear winner" actually means "a single winner", it would have just said that?"To me, it is clear that "clear winner" means "single winner". You can say the same thing in different ways.
But then, I tend to steer clear of adding awards on Goodreads.
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Niki wrote: "If there are two or three winners of an award (gold and silver and/or bronze) then does any of them qualify as a clear winner (in accordance with the Goodreads policy)? And if yes how ..."Thanks for the clarification!
lethe wrote: "To me, it is clear that "clear winner" means "single winner". You c..."
Yes, because it is 'clear' of the others. :)
I would love this to be changed to "Awards should have a clear winner.
Ranked lists are generally not considered awards." In the Manual.
@Niki - no problem. Any time you have a question just ask. :)
Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I would love this to be changed to "Awards should have a clear winner.Ranked lists are generally not considered awards." In the Manual."
I'm afraid people will then still be able to misread it as referring to ranked lists only.
lethe wrote: "I'm afraid people will then still be able to misread it as referring to ranked lists only."Yes, I'm afraid people will decide it means what they want it to mean, regardless.
Book:
Award name: Wattpad Amby Award
Category: Fan Fiction
Year: 2022
Award site: https://www.wattpad.com/user/TheAmbys
Award winner announcement (Fan Fiction: TEZofAllTrades - Gideon Drake and the Fire Within): https://www.wattpad.com/1197342717-th...