Group Reads Discussions 2023: "Spirits Abroad" Story by Story *tagged spoilers*

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Content warnings (included at the start of each story in the 2014 ebook edition) for those who want them: (view spoiler)[ references to entrails, violence, miscarriage, child harm (non-explicit), self-harm (hide spoiler)] (More about CWs here.)

Q&A here: Author Q&A with Zen Cho

Full spoilery discussion is here: Final thoughts

This collection will also be discussed in the next Virtual Book Club on February 26th, 15:30 (3:30) pm GMT (10:30 AM EST).

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

This collection has been published in three different editions. We're reading the 2021 collection that has 19 stories, but if you have one of the older ones, here are the contents of each edition, and links to the (missing) stories you can read online.



Spirits Abroad - physical, ebook, audio (2021)

19 stories:

Here

The First Witch of Damansara*
--- The Guest*
The Fish Bowl**
First National Forum on the Position of Minorities in Malaysia**
--- Odette**
The House of Aunts*
Balik Kampung**

There

One-Day Travelcard for Fairyland
起狮, 行礼 (Rising Lion—The Lion Bows)*
七星鼓 (Seven Star Drum)*
The Mystery of the Suet Swain
Prudence and the Dragon*
The Perseverance of Angela’s Past Life
--- If At First You Don’t Succeed, Try, Try Again*

Elsewhere

The Earth Spirit’s Favorite Anecdote**
--- Monkey King, Faerie Queen*
Liyana*
--- The Terracotta Bride **/***
The Four Generations of Chang E*



Spirits Abroad - ebook (2014)

15 stories:

Here

The First Witch of Damansara*
First National Forum on the Position of Minorities in Malaysia**
The House of Aunts*

There

One-Day Travelcard for Fairyland
起狮, 行礼 (Rising Lion—The Lion Bows)*
-- 七星鼓 (Seven Star Drum)*
The Mystery of the Suet Swain
Prudence and the Dragon*
-- The Perseverance of Angela’s Past Life

Elsewhere

The Earth Spirit’s Favorite Anecdote**
Liyana*
The Four Generations of Chang E*

Going Back

-- The Many Deaths of Hang Jebat ****
-- The Fish Bowl**
-- Balik Kampung**



Spirits Abroad - physical (2014)

10 stories:

Here

The First Witch of Damansara*
First National Forum on the Position of Minorities in Malaysia**
The House of Aunts*

There

One-Day Travelcard for Fairyland
起狮, 行礼 (Rising Lion—The Lion Bows)*
The Mystery of the Suet Swain
Prudence and the Dragon*

Elsewhere

The Earth Spirit’s Favorite Anecdote**
Liyana*
The Four Generations of Chang E*


-- New to 2014 ebook edition
--- New to 2021 edition

* Can be read online
** Also in another publication
*** Was sold separately before 2021
**** Not included in the 2021 collection

For links to read online, and other publication information, see here:
https://zencho.org/zen-cho-short-stor...

[Christopher]

I'm about 50% done and would be up for discussing anything up to that point. My favorite story so far has been "The Fish Bowl".

[Anna]

"The First Witch of Damansara"

(view spoiler)[ "You know why I wanted you all to call me Nai Nai?" she said before Vivian closed the coffin. "Even though Hokkien people call their grandmother Ah Ma?"

Vivian paused with her hand on the lid.

"In the movies, Nai Nai is always bad!"

Vivian woke up with her grandmother's growly cackle in her ears.

(hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

Tagging myself in with the first couple of stories. I have the 2014 ebook edition, and am reading the stories in the order of the 2021 edition (and heading to the web to read the ones that are not in the 2014 edition). I'm not a short story person, but it has been kind of nice reading pieces that don't expect a 500-page commitment.

"The First Witch of Damansara"
(view spoiler)[I've read this story three times now, starting the book twice and petering out right after reading this story. It didn't compel me to keep going, for some reason. I enjoyed looking up the various clothing items online to see what they looked like, and the wry, affectionate interactions between the women in the family were fun. (hide spoiler)]

"The Fish Bowl"
(view spoiler)[Bloodier than I'm typically comfortable with, but there was a point to it. Su Yin's drift into self-annihilation was well done and the koi was super creepy. My take on the story was different, and less interesting, than Cho's own in her author's note, so I'll stick with hers. :) (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

I am getting a decent idea of how long it takes for me to read 5000 words...

"First National Forum"
(view spoiler)[Each story has had an older woman character--lightly sketched, as must be necessary in pieces of this length, but each has been distinct from the others.

The transition from the back-and-forth between the delegates, to the family story was somewhat confusing, and not terribly smooth. But the ending was affecting and left plenty for the reader to fill in with their own experiences.

"And I am old, Chor Seng. My bones like to have soft cushions to lie on. They like to be driven around in a Mercedes." Relateable! Well, sort of. I can't recall ever having been in a Mercedes, much less having one with a driver to call upon. :D (hide spoiler)]

[Raucous]

"The First Witch of Damansara"
(view spoiler)[I loved the "slice of life" aspects of this one (and yes, I enjoyed looking up all of those clothing items as well). Overall it felt more like a vignette than any kind of narrative. It was a bit dissatisfying from that perspective. I suppose that shouldn't have been surprising given the amount of detail and the length. (hide spoiler)]

"The Fish Bowl"
(view spoiler)[This one really squidged me out - perhaps in part because I've had relatives go through versions of this. Maybe the author's notes would help give me a different perspective, but they're not in the edition that I'm reading and I don't see anything on the book's Goodreads page (not that I can find much on the new page anymore). Are those notes available elsewhere? (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

Raucous, here's a very short excerpt from the author's notes for "The Fish Bowl": (view spoiler)[

Su Yin is very sheltered, of course. But you can be sheltered and still suffer a lot. I guess that's what this story is about.

(hide spoiler)] I don't know if they're available anywhere aside from the edition I'm reading.

[Georgann]

I wasn't really impressed by the first 4 stories of the first section, so rather than just give up on it, I skipped ahead to the next section, and loved "Rising Lion - the Lion Bows" and its follow up, "Seven Star Drum." So I guess I'll keep reading and see if I find others I like.

[Raucous]

Beth wrote: "Raucous, here's a very short excerpt from the author's notes for "The Fish Bowl": ..."

Thank you! (view spoiler)[Part of what disturbed me about the story was seeing someone forced into that suffering because she didn't have the tools to meet the demands and expectations from her parents and others. I suppose some of that comes from being sheltered and there is a long fairy tale tradition there, but still...

I did find, while looking for more on this story, a reference in a review to “koi jumps over the dragon gate" as an idiom for succeeding at old Chinese imperial exams. This is certainly an interesting twist on that. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

Raucous, in re "Fish Bowl" (again): (view spoiler)[in the "Discuss Everything" thread, Hank linked a review that mentioned the origin of "koi jumps over the dragon gate," along with other Chinese cultural terms mentioned in the stories in Spirits Abroad. That's where I saw it, anyhow. (hide spoiler)]

"Odette" - not a big fan of reading fiction on web sites. Maybe I'll buy the new edition of the book after all.
(view spoiler)[This didn't end how I expected. I was anticipating Odette and the house living happily ever after, once Uncle Andrew was out of the picture.

Of course, Uncle Andrew remaining as a ghost can be seen metaphorically - abuse leaves scars whether emotional or physical. It would explain why the more benign Beatrice doesn't end up as a ghost, since Odette herself near forgot her after she died.

The magic in the latter half of the story is kind of grody. Yeah, we don't deal with hair, fingernails, scabs (yuck!!) even of those we are the closest to...

Looked up "nyonyaware" this time. The elaborate decoration and bright red, pink, aqua, green in a lot of the pieces are beautiful. :) I loved the descriptions of the house, and could easily believe Odette falling in love with it. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

I bought a copy of the 2021 version last year, and have also checked out the 2014 ebook from the library (to be able to read Hang Jebat, but it will also be nice to have access to the author commentary). This was one of the collections that got interested in short stories, so I'm looking forward to see how it holds up six years later.

"The First Witch of Damansara": (view spoiler)[I am also currently listening to Black Water Sister, by the same author, so it was interesting to see some of the places these stories overlap. That book has been slow going, so I liked the switch to a shorter form. I loved the "slice of life" aspects and the characterization. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

"The House of Aunts"
A somewhat longer comment for a somewhat longer story--the longest in the collection, I believe.

(view spoiler)[I hadn't heard of a pontianak (not so nice) before reading this story--they're way scarier and grosser than vampires! With a vampire, there's a chance you might live through it, with your innards intact...

The blood, and especially the idea of eating human viscera, was a little hard for me to get through--I can remember trying to read this on Giganotosaurus a number of years ago and checking out a few paragraphs in--but "blood" in so many ways, is so important to the story, it's hard to imagine it working without those discomfiting parts.

The cast of aunts was hard to distinguish from each other, especially early on, but at least a couple of them came into sharper relief as the story went along. I loved the one-on-one scenes with Ah Ma and Ji Ee (sp?). The sense of family with these women, their unbreakable, bossy, standoffish support of their youngest niece, was just great.

The reason for Ah Lee's death was a surprise to me. The fake crying baby sound that the aunts use to try to lure Ridzual into a death trap was a nice piece of foreshadowing, in hindsight. (I thought it was a little awkward to switch to his pov here, when Ah Lee is the pov character in the rest of it, but I can see why it was done.) I appreciated that the fate of Ah Lee's baby was left to the reader's imagination.

A parallel between this story and Cho's novella The Perilous Life of Jade Yeo (also recommended if you liked this collection!) is (view spoiler)[the main character getting pregnant with a not-so-great man before meeting a decent one (hide spoiler)].

Lots of great quotes in this story. Here's one that got a chuckle out of me. Others had me near tears:

They had told her off for not staying home and doing her homework, but it was a half-hearted telling off. The aunts knew they had forfeited the moral high ground by trying to eat her classmate.

Here's another excerpt from Cho's story notes.

I've been touched and a little surprised by the reception of the story, and I guess that is for the same reason that it has elicited a strong reaction--it is very personal. It is the closest I have got so far in my work to honouring where I've come from.

(hide spoiler)]

"The Many Deaths of Hang Jebat"
(view spoiler)[Blink and you'll miss it! :D Cho's author's note was very helpful for this one. I can easily imagine the legend of Hang Tuah as fertile ground for interpretations full of tragedy and bromance. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

"Balik Kampung"
(view spoiler)[After a mild resistance in the beginning--"another dead girl story?"--I ended up enjoying this.

"Now you know. What does it matter? In the next life you won't remember this sadness. You're already dead. Let go lah your attachments."

While Lydia's finding out what her demon "was" drove the story, the feeling of nostalgia and homecoming, supported by vivid descriptions, came across at least as strongly, or even more.

For some reason, the idea of the afterlife as a bureaucratic organization is appealing. I've seen it in other contexts, such as anime. (hide spoiler)]

[Ellen]

Finished section one Here.

"The First Witch of Damansara"
(view spoiler)[But after all, Vivian reminded herself, Wei Yi was seventeen. She was practically legally required to be an arsehole. (hide spoiler)] True
"Guest"
(view spoiler)[I love the idea of a spell magician. A smell is almost like a spell. It can transport you to another place or time. It can bring a memory of the past. Also there is a cat. (hide spoiler)]
"Fish Bowl"
(view spoiler)[ Wasn't my favorite . (hide spoiler)]
"Odette"
(view spoiler)[ I liked this one but was disappointed that even in death Odette did not escape the abusive uncle. (hide spoiler)]
"The House of Aunts"
(view spoiler)[ I like this but the menu description was a bit hard to read.
Pass on the soup (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

Apologies for the frequent posts. I'm afraid these stories will fall down the memory hole if I don't type something out about them right away.

"Travel Card to Fairyland"
(view spoiler)[

Her hairtie was the exact same shade of lilac as her shoelaces; you wouldn't think she was the kind of girl who would take so readily to war.

Guilt clanged in her chest. She would never be free of it, she realized. This was something you could not fix.

This story brought up the memory--certainly not for the first time--of an incident when I was in junior high where (CW: death of an animal) (view spoiler)[I witnessed a gerbil being stepped on, causing its death. Alongside the horror was a deep remorse that has never left me, because it was due at least in part to my weak character that the situation it died in came to pass in the first place. (hide spoiler)] The story isn't really "about" that, but that's what it's about, for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Ryan, Your favourite moderators favourite moderator]

I liked The First Witch of Damansara for its (view spoiler)[complex relationships and the little insights into how 'respect' can be used as a weapon to conform. The story is such a vivid portrayal of a world and culture for such a short piece.
I'll have to give some thought as to why this worked for me in ways that Black Water Sister didn't. (hide spoiler)]

[Kaa]

Ryan, if you have any further thoughts on First Witch (view spoiler)[vs Black Water Sister, I'd be interested to hear them, because I also found that First Witch was a lot more effective for me. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

"Rising Lion (The Lion Bows)"
(view spoiler)[I loved the descriptions of the lion's movements, and of the illustration (?) on the cabinet. It was a combination of both mildly touching and funny that the troupe absconded with a big cabinet, that they'll have to tote around with them so that George can take part in the performances. This story lacked somewhat in impact, for me. (hide spoiler)]

I see that "Seven Star Drum" has some of the same characters as "Rising Lion." I'll append my thoughts about that one to this post later on.

"Seven Star Drum"
(view spoiler)[Probably the weakest story in the collection, so far. I was unsurprised to read in Cho's notes that it was an expanded piece of background information previously snipped from "Rising Lion." Regardless, I'd be happy to read more stories about this group and the spirits they meet and/or defeat. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

"The Suet Swain"(view spoiler)[

The division of labour in their friendship meant that Belinda did the cooking and feelings, and Sham did the cynicism and proofreading.

I might not have been entirely convinced by two people this different from each other being best friends, and Belinda was a bit too damsel-like until the very end. But their interactions were well done. I recognized a Holmes-like character in Sham, which was confirmed in the author's note.

"The saddest ghost. The most loserish hantu."

I liked the odd bits of humor, like this quote from Sham. The end was a bit abrupt for me. Pointing out the complicity that can go hand-in-hand with keeping the waters of a social group unruffled isn't a bad thing, but unfortunately the author's note gave this story a preachy cast that I didn't get from just reading it. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

Looks like the next two stories are another "two-fer" featuring common characters, so I'll put the comments for both in a single post:

"Prudence and the Dragon"
(view spoiler)[This is the lightest-feeling story in the book so far, by my reckoning, though it still has some mild horror-ish elements like the insides of the wild cat buses (more on this in a sec) and the yummy crunchy (non-sentient) fairies.

I liked the magical, slightly strange or unsettling elements in the story, like the talking tomatoes. I also liked Prudence and her lack of intuition when it comes to others' emotions, though I could certainly also understand Angela's frustrations with her.

I guess this is set in the same universe as Sorcerer to the Crown?

I recognized what could be references to Studio Ghibli films: the cat buses (not as benign as the one in My Neighbor Totoro), and the dragon who turns into a human, and instinctively bonds with a girl (woman in this case), reminding me of Spirited Away. There's even a scene where Zheng Li turns into a river... (hide spoiler)]

"The Perseverance of Angela's Past Life"
(view spoiler)[Angela/Pik Mun's repressed teenage sexuality becoming an entire separate character, and then becoming integrated with her adult self, was somewhat too "on the nose" for me.

I liked the rest of it, though, like the somewhat touristy or glamourized images of Japan. I also like how Cho's female characters bicker with each other, since that bickering also comes with an undercurrent of affection. "But don't go and chase other people's girlfriend. Hmph. After you stay in Japan you become so immoral." (I laughed at that one, and felt some of the relief that Pik Mun must have on the realization that Constance was objecting not to her pursuing a woman, but which one.) (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

"If At First You Don't Succeed...."
(view spoiler)[Of any of the stories, it was perhaps the most conventional or predictable in its overall plot, but that didn't make it any less affecting. There's nothing wrong with a tear-jerker now and then. :) And many of the details were distinctive and funny.

The repeating structure at the beginning made me think this was going to be like a fairy tale, eventually taking Byam into a far distant SFnal future, but it became something much more down to earth (so to speak).

Through various pop media--Dragon Ball, Ashes of Love, etc--I was aware of some of the mythology referenced in this story like cintamani and celestial fairies, but I'd never heard of imugi. A kind of larval form of a dragon, I guess?

Here are some quotes from the story that made me laugh. Those of us who have had feline companions will recognize the situation in the last one:

It didn’t seem to bother them that they couldn’t breathe underwater; they still launched themselves onto the waves on rickety assemblages of dismembered trees. It was as if they couldn’t wait to get on to their next lives.

Byam put its arms around Leslie, but it seemed poor comfort for the ruin of all her hopes. It felt Leslie underestimated the consolation she was likely to derive from the wholesale destruction of her enemies.

“I’ve told you, I can’t actually talk to the cat,” said Leslie. (Which was a blatant lie, because she did it all the time, though it was true they had strange conversations, generally at cross-purposes.)

(hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

"The Earth Spirit's Favorite Anecdote"
(view spoiler)[This story made me laugh more than any story in the book so far, I think. I loved the interactions between the down-to-earth spirit and the breezy bureaucratic tree spirit.

I've never built a love relationship with a landlord, and they've certainly never sent a crowd of odd-jobbing undead babies to my apartment. Am I missing out? (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

I've been reading this as a buddy read in another group and finally pulled together my thoughts on several of the stories to post here as well. I'm reading the 2021 edition.

Stories in "Here"

The First Witch of Damansara. (view spoiler)[ I really liked the family dynamic and the energy and flow of the dialogue made me feel like I really was hanging out with the people in the story. (hide spoiler)]

The Guest. (view spoiler)[ I thought the magic system of the MC was super interesting and liked her practicality of how she used it for others as well. The ending made me just want to hug the characters. (hide spoiler)]

The Fish Bowl. (view spoiler)[ I like the element of the animals with magic powers interacting with people. I thought the metaphor was kind of blunt, though certainly the pressures that students go through can be extreme and traumatic. (hide spoiler)]

First National Forum... (view spoiler)[ I enjoyed the beginning, even though at first it didn't seem like there was much of a fantasy element. I just loved how the group totally derailed the discussion plans of the organizers. The reveal of the relationship between Datin Zainab and the orang bunian was funny and sweet. (hide spoiler)]

Odette. (view spoiler)[ I liked this but ultimately I wish the house had been more of a strong character developed throughout the story, so the end had more impact. (hide spoiler)]

The House of Aunts, (view spoiler)[ I loved the matter-of-fact descriptions of the Aunts and Ah Lee's life (oh, just eating some entrails, no big deal). The teen romance was done well, I liked that they learned from their mistakes and tried again. Learning Ah Lee's own story was sad, but the relationship with Ridzual showed that she could have happiness. (hide spoiler)]

Balik Kampung (view spoiler)[ I appreciated learning about the tradition of the dead being able to return, and I thought the portrayal of that and other aspects of the world of the dead were well done, but the end was kind of abrupt. (hide spoiler)]

[Meredith]

Stories in "There"

One-day Travelcard for Fairyland, (view spoiler)[ I enjoyed the interactions among the kids. Growing up, I always liked the books where the kids team up to fight their own battles, with the teachers being mostly useless. (hide spoiler)]

Rising Lion--The Lion Bows & Seven Star Drum, (view spoiler)[ I liked this pair of stories, the descriptions of the lion dance and how the 'real' blends into the magical really worked for me. (hide spoiler)]

The Mystery of the Suet Swain, (view spoiler)[ I would totally read more stories of Sham and Belinda solving spooky mysteries. (hide spoiler)]

Prudence and the Dragon & The Perseverance of Angela's Past Life (view spoiler)[ Another pair of stories that I enjoyed. I liked seeing how Angela's personal story turned out and the element of being haunted by a younger self and their different perspective on life. I also liked the friendship between Prudence and Angela. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

"Monkey King and Faerie Queen"
(view spoiler)[There didn't seem to be any underlying metaphors in this story, as I've found (or been told through Cho's commentary) in many of the others in this collection. A cute, lively tale with a little spike of awareness of how helpless humans are in the face of mythological entities. (hide spoiler)]

"Liyana"
(view spoiler)[Speaking of metaphors... ;) Cho's note says that this one has a theme of women's sacrifice. In hindsight it chilled me a bit to realize that I'd taken the nüguos' sacrifice for granted--they accepted it unquestioningly, and I did too. It's part of their nature, right? (hide spoiler)]

Only a couple more stories to go. I've been reading a story or two from this collection each day for a little while now, and it'll feel a little sad or strange when I no longer have another one to look forward to.

[Beth]

"The Terracotta Bride"
(view spoiler)[I had a greater appreciation for this story than I did nearly six years ago when I gave it three stars.

As with "Balik Kampung," I enjoyed the peek into hell and the afterlife.

It was easy to get a handle on the interrelationships among the central household. Both times I read this story, the revelation of the love relationship between Ling'en and Yonghua felt rather sudden, but it can also be said that Siew Tsin wasn't the most observant of pov characters, either.

I saw Yonghua as being a sort of cipher that Junsheng, Siew Tisn, and Ling-en projected their own longings onto--whether for companionship or romantic love. But maybe that's just a reflection of how "girl robots" tend to be depicted in fiction more than the story's intention. The end of the story leaves it open what Yonghua's fate may be (less the "guarantee" of the red thread connection). It's fitting that Junsheng was left behind while the three women moved on to the wheel of reincarnation. (hide spoiler)]

[Beth]

"The Four Generations of Chang E"
(view spoiler)[

Past a certain point, you stop being able to go home. At this point, when you have got this far from where you were from, the thread snaps. The narrative breaks. And you are forced, pastless, motherless, selfless, to invent yourself anew.

(hide spoiler)]

And that is that. On to the "finished" thread. :)

[Bonnie]

Beth wrote: ""If At First You Don't Succeed...."
Of any of the stories, it was perhaps the most conventional or predictable in its overall plot, but that didn't make it any less affecting."

If At First You Don't Succeed...."
(view spoiler)[Yes I agree. I found If At First You Don't Succeed, Odette, and The Four Generations of Chang E. to be the most accessible for me.
1) probably why this one was my favorite! and
2) I found out right after I finished the book a few days ago, that this story won the Hugo for Best Novelette!

https://www.optionstheedge.com/topic/...
(hide spoiler)]

[Raucous]

"If At First You Don't Succeed...."
(view spoiler)[I was struggling some reading these stories. Then I got to this one. What a wonderful tale of revenge gone so so wrong. I loved how moving beyond the view of humans as obstacles was key to success. (hide spoiler)]