Memory of Light (WOT #14) [June 25, 2023]

[Yanique, Thread Master]

This is a Buddy Read for A Memory of Light by Robert Jordan starting June 25, 2023.

[Choko]

Thank you, Yanique:)))

[Nirkatze]

Do folks want to move this to later in the month (or even next month)? I know I'm pretty booked up and I'm guessing others are too...

[Choko]

Next month would be great! I have been sick and haven't read anything these three days already... I am so behind...

[Nirkatze]

How does April 15 sound?

[Nirkatze]

Okay, rescheduling again for June 25! LOL

[Nirkatze]

I did it... I started....

The Prologue is a MONSTER! 55 pages on my 6pt e-reader, which means it's probably 75 pages or more. But it draws you in, and I didn't want to stop reading... but I only made through about half before well, bedtime...

(view spoiler)[Interesting how little acts of creation help to push back at the shadow...

Dammit Talmanes!! Dying in a frickin' prologue?? I'm really really hoping that Elayne notices the Band is there fighting, and that someone gets him to a Healer... Aes Sedai can fight Myrddhal weapon poison, right? Or only Trolloc poison? I'm pretty sure this Trolloc invasion is the one that Olver noticed from opening Verin's letter, right at the end of the previous book, right? That came in through the Ways?

It's a little strange seeing Nynaeve face Leilwin, and realize they haven't seen each other since like... book 2? book 3? It was so long ago, when they were hunting Black Ajah in Tarabon.... It's nice to see Nynaeve organizing things in Rand's camp... It was funny to see Leilwin try an Illianer accent and fail too... (hide spoiler)]

I also had to open Secret Project #3... probably do some book-jumping while reading...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Nirkatze wrote: "I did it... I started....

The Prologue is a MONSTER! 55 pages on my 6pt e-reader, which means it's probably 75 pages or more. But it draws you in, and I didn't want to stop reading... but I only m..."

Popped into the thread... been awhile since I did my series relisten (I think it was summer 2020)... so much happens in this series, and it's like 12-15,000 pages... and all of it happens in a span of 2-3 years... all between 998-1000NE, in-series calendar...

[Choko]

OMG!!! We are going live, is that right?! You know how scared I am of finishing this series!!!!

[Nirkatze]

LOL WE NEED TO DO IT!!! You can go watch the TV show when done, that helps with the separation...

Is it really only 2-3 years? I swear it feels longer...

[Nirkatze]

Well, I didn't end up bouncing between WoT & Secret Project. I ended up one-sitting finishing Secret Project. Back to WoT Now! LOL Wot now. What now? WoT now!

[Nirkatze]

Into Chapter 3--(view spoiler)[Thank EVERYTHING for Nynaeve! I was so worried for Talmanes! I should have trusted Sanderson. Though I have a feeling that we're going to be seeing a lot of epic sacrificial deaths soon enough.

I'm really enjoying the Black Tower storyline, and not just because IT'S ABOUT FRICKIN' TIME. I really like Pevara & Androl's... not quite chemistry, well, maybe "chemistry" is the word. Anyway, I like seeing their scenes together, and I really like Androl, as the weakest in power but strongest in character. I think he & the Wise Ones would have a lot in common. Gah! But the pressure is on. Save Logain already!

I really like how Rand explained breaking the seals to Perrin. I'm looking forward to the big leadership conference...

Oh! That Forsaken scene at the end of the prologue! Are we really down to only five? Six, with Taim, but he's a baby slime. And Demandred and Mogehedien are the only ones in their original bodies... Cyndane & Moiridin and now the not-Graendal... Good score so far from the good guy side. Eight of them down, none of our Five down. (hide spoiler)]

I'm really enjoying it so far Choko... you should take the plunge!

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Eye of the World starts in Spring 998, around Beltine...

Memory of Light starts in Summer 1000, but doesn't really give time details as the Last Battle plays out, to be 100% accurate on timing, from what I checked...

[Nirkatze]

So fast... I knew the last few books had to be in less than a year, due to (view spoiler)[Elayne's pregnancy (hide spoiler)] but I guess I imagined there's been more than a couple years by that time...

Through Chapter 13--still really enjoying it! But I'm doing most of my reading away from the computer and not taking notes... (view spoiler)[Lots of maneuvering and prepping for battle... feels like one big battle so far...

Still loving P&A's story at the Black Tower, though it's getting WAAAAy tense by now. Androl's gotta manage a gateway somehow!! And will there be anyone left to save by the time they break through? I know Logain and P&A have got to make it... It'd be really nice if some others of their team were left too... and the way the people are Turned to the Dark... I like the conversation that was had, about how that shouldn't be possible--and the descriptions of looking in their eyes reminds me of the Taken in Codex Alera... like they're actually dead, or their souls are dead, and the shadow is just animating them...

With Perrin getting the info about who really killed his family, it looks like they're setting him up for a showdown not just with Slayer but Padan Fain too. (hide spoiler)]

More thoughts but out of time... am on weekend trip with mom, sneaking chapters and comments when she's not looking...

[Nirkatze]

This is my first reread--but I read it initially 10 years ago, soon after the last book came out. So long enough that this almost is like the first time again, I've forgotten everything! and thoroughly enjoying again.

Up through Chapter 23 (view spoiler)[A lot of battles & maneuvering lately.

I'm a little concerned about what Lanfear is up to with Perrin... what's her angle? After the scene with Rand revealing himself to her in the dream, she doesn't seem to be as fixated on him--though Perrin says he smells hatred. It has to be survival and power... maybe she's realized that the Dark One is planning on destroying everything, and decided to hitch her carriage to a different horse... at least to get through the Last Battle, then she could start stirring things up for power again...

So glad the battle at the Black Tower turned out okay! Androl is wicked with those gateways--redirecting balefire! Dropping evil people from the sky! And I love how he turned the tables around on the Sisters from the Tower. Giving them exactly 47 wannabe warders.

The Sharans showing up with Demandred wasn't really a surprise, but their timing was... I remember a scene, with Graendal, I think? Where she talked about Shara.... and having some of their leaders in her collection... and Demandred thought it might've been to try to sus out his position... seemed like a likely location. I also am not happy with Gawyn using the bloodwhatsit rings. It's gonna kill him... unless the Last Battle kills him first. Not overly optimistic about his or Egwene's chances by the end of the book...

I loved the Mat & Tuon bits. His voice doesn't seem quite 100%--but I'll take 90%. After reading Yumi and the Nightmare Painter: A Cosmere Novel though, Sanderson's Mat voice reminds me a lot of Hoid's narrative voice...

Kinda wish we got more Jesus-Rand moments. Also definitely curious how the Dragon's Peace would work with the Aiel visions of their descendants... am not happy that they weren't able to get provisions for repatriating taken channelers... (hide spoiler)]

I feel like I need to do another Forsaken rundown....
(view spoiler)[

Alive & Kicking:
Moridin formerly Ishamael, new body, current Nae'blis, seems to be not all that sanguine about his position?
Demandred one of the few left with his original body, recently revealed to have been biding time in Shara... wants a duel with Lews Therin.
Mogehedian also has her original body. Recently got her soul-trap back... for now. Current assignment is what?
Graendal new name Hessalam or something like it--she must've been killed by Moridin or that fade Hand thingy, last I remember she was being punished for her failure with Perrin & the dreamspike, Slayer etc...
Lanfear now Cyndane... killed in the Aelfinn/Elfinn towers and resurrected. Supposedly Moiridin still has her soul-trap... but she seems to be running loose, unless what she's doing is at his order? She might have also been demoted and not "technically" be a Forsaken anymore.
M'Hael but he doesn't count. Asshat.

Dead:
Be'lal: killed by Moiraine with Baelfire in the taking of the Stone of Tear
Rahvin: Rahvin became Lord Gaebril, consort to Queen Morgase in Andor, and was killed with balefire by Rand.
Asmodean: Killed by someone unknown, probably Graendal, after the fight against Rahvin. Not resurrected because traitor.
Sammael: Sammael became Lord Brend in Illian and probably killed by Mashadar at Shadar Logoth.
Aginor: killed by Rand in book 1 at the Eye of the World, resurrected as Osan'gar. Became Dashiva in the Black Tower, killed by Eliza (Darkfriend, oops!) with balefire at the Cleansing of Saidin.
Belthamel: killed by Rand in book 1 at the Eye of the World, resurrected as Aran'gar. Became Halima, secretary and Egwene's servant at Salidar, escaped when her cover was burned, killed by Rand with Balefire when he tried to corner Graendal.
Semirhage: became Tuon's Voice, killed by Rand with Balefire after he broke the male a'dam with the True Power.
Mesaana: hid herself in the White Tower, and became mind-dead after a battle-of-wills with Egwene during the Battle of Tel'aran'rhiod. (hide spoiler)]
Okay, that helps me get my brain straight a bit more.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I can’t remember the details, but Asmodean’s killer is revealed in the glossary of characters included in the physical/ebook copies of The Gathering Storm, if you want clarification…

[Nirkatze]

We never get 100% in-book confirmation though...

Just finished Chapter 27, and it had me laughing... (view spoiler)[OMG, Min got snapped up by Tuon! Hah! I don't know what has me laughing more--from Min's side, or from Tuon's side. You'd think Tuon'd learn what happens when you try to fit people from this side of the ocean into her little Seanchan boxes... Prince of Chaos, and now Truthspeaker... well, at least Min doesn't need to worry about being respectful in that position...

Each of the battlefronts is getting tense... as it should, here at the Last Battle...

Been thinking about the question: Is the Dark One part of the Pattern? And I'm learning toward Rand's side of the argument. If it was part of the Pattern, there should be an equally "good" force acting opposite. But the Dark One tries to drag the whole pattern into destruction and decay--forcing the pattern to act more creation-ly than it is wont, through Rand. So I think his theory is pretty sound, about killing or kicking the Dark One out.... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

I am at a family thing in Myrtle Beach and I have not had time for reading or listening at all... I am so sorry I am running late...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

The glossary is in the book ;)

[Nirkatze]

Timelord Iain wrote: "The glossary is in the book ;)"

That doesn't count! LOL

@Choko--I hope you're having fun at the beach! No worries on late, I kinda am bullying you into finishing anyway. ^^

[Nirkatze]

Part I forgot to mention on Chapter 17--(view spoiler)[I LOVED the one-upping conversation between Rand & Mat! "I cleansed Saidin. Take that!" "Well I saved Moiraine!" LOL Actually, pretty much loving all the Mat scenes. (hide spoiler)]

Up to Chapter 34--(view spoiler)[the whole scheme with the Great Generals was really well played out--and I'm not talking about Graendal's scheming, but about how it all came together in the book. I've been on the edge of my seat... and each of them were taken care of in different ways. I was so proud of Iturlade for resisting, so angry at Egwene for being so slow to believe, so scared for Elayne and anxious for Lan... and of course it all had to come down to Mat. I actually rather thought, back at the beginning, when Rand was persuaded to step down from he role of battle commander, that Mat would pick up from there--I wasn't expecting Elayne to step up--especially since the announcement was timed with the arrival of Moiraine, and last I could remember of Mat he was in her company... but nope, he had to come in from the Seanchan side, which has been a lot of fun.

I've been thinking that there's a lot in common between the Aiel and the Seanchan--in a sort of "thin line between love and hate" kind of way--they both have very rigid cultural structures, and have a hard time comprehending why outsiders don't get their ways when they don't bother to explain them. They both also hold honor very high--but the Empress can bend it if necessary, as can the Wise Ones. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 35--(view spoiler)[Bela! We've missed you! I was worried the last book would pass without finding out what happened to the ninth member of the Fellowship. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 37 first page holy moly... (view spoiler)[I heard that The Last Battle chapter was longer than Harry Potter book 1 all in itself, but it's still a shock to open up a new chapter... and find it is TEN TIMES longer than all previous chapters... almost a full fifth of the book!! Whoo! Here we go! (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

More Chapter 37, about 1/4 in. (view spoiler)[I think Elayne's curses have gotten more interesting in the last three books... I wonder if that's Sanderson, or if Jordan left some good ones in his notes? "bloody two-fingered trolloc haystack grunter" is particularly inventive...

Even Uno has gotten more interesting--in earlier books, "bad language" was pretty much just "flaming" and "bloody" with the only more inventive line I can remember being "mother's milk in a cup!"

Oh, a hint on the Seals... I wonder if Taim put some sort of tracker on the one he handed over to Rand when they met... that would explain why he handed it over in the first place... then waited until Rand had them all, an stole them...

I can't help but think that Vanin is more likely after the "tabac" than the horn...

Nooo, Siuan, don't leave Bryne's side! Remember Min's vision? Crap, two more people likely to die this book... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

End of Chapter 37--(view spoiler)[I really like how this chapter sort of... checked in on all the characters who have been small and recurring throughout the series.

I'm also a bit disappointed that Rand hasn't realized... the list of the dead that he keeps, and keeps thinking of having "failed"---no! he hasn't failed them. He is fighting for them, for their chance at rebirth in the Wheel... if the Dark One wins, only then will he have failed them... Egwene's final thoughts show this pretty clearly...

I wonder if the Seanchan spy was Mogehedien? She's been missing this whole battle.

Oh man, Lan riding through the flaming arrows by the archers of the Two Rivers... I would love to see that on film. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 39 (view spoiler)[Okay, fun little character quiz here! I'm going to put in my guesses:

It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet⁠—a woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought.
Elayne's mom.

It was about a man that love repeatedly forsook, a man who found relevance in a world that others would have let pass them by. A man who remembered stories, and who took fool boys under his wing when the smarter move would have been to keep on walking. That man still fought.
Thom. This one's easy.

It was about a woman with a secret, a hope for the future. A woman who had hunted the truth before others could. A woman who had given her life, then had it returned. That woman still fought.
Moiraine, I'm betting.

It was about a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall in his sorrow and protected those he could.
Probably Lan.

It was about a woman who refused to believe that she could not help, could not Heal those who had been harmed.
Nynaeve. I guess it helps that these're coming in pairs, kinda.

It was about a hero who insisted with every breath that he was anything but a hero.
Oh, that's Mat.

It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shone with the Light for all who watched. Including Rand.
Probably Egwene.

Aww man, I'm tearing up now. Them's some powerful words.

Hah! Birgitte swooping in to save Elayne was perfect!

Not the tree? OH! Didn't Rand save Mat from being killed by a Darkhound, with Balefire? That reversed it?

Awwww, Olver! Noal! That's not a tear in my eye, nope, not at all... (hide spoiler)]

I AM NOT GOING TO SLEEP UNTIL I FINISH!

[Choko]

I am finally back home and just started!!!

Prologue... (view spoiler)[ I kind of felt sorry for the Lord who lost all of his followers... I know he was fighting against Elayne, but he is obviously way over his head...

The "town" where Luke/Isan grew up is pretty horrendous... Who was the Chosen who is so passionate about killing Rand?

Talmanes!!!!! Noooooooo! I don't want him to die!

Leilwin and Nynaeve's meeting actually went better than I thought:)) And I love the old Ilianan captain:)

Nirkatze, you are right, they had not seen each other since early in the series...

Aviendha and the Wise Ones meeting was hard, having in mind what she saw for the future of the Aiel, unless they do something about it... The vision must be subject to change!

Talmanes and The Band are fighting so many Trollocs and Fades... Everything looks so ominous and kind of hopeless... :(((...

We are back in the Black Tower too... Androl is pretty awesome! I hope he and Pevara can do something about all those men that are turning...

In the battle with the Trollocs, all the Kin women have fallen but one:((( As I said, very sad that we are losing so many people... And Talmanes is killing himself, but is taking a lot of Fades with him... And Aludra showed up to save the Dragons guns...

Mogehedine is still here... Nirkatze, thank you for keeping the score on the living and dead Forsaken... Moridin/Ishmael, Demandred, Taim/M'hael, Cyndane/Lanfear, Hesalam/Greandal, and Mogehedine are six... And as you said, not only are our five alive, but we got our Moiraine back! (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Ch. 1-2... (view spoiler)[ The way Aviendha showed up in Elayne's tent was hilarious:) She didn't want to make a fuss:)))

I understand why Egwene is worried about breaking the seals, but I think it's time for her to trust Rand...

Rand and Perrin's conversation about how he needed to accept he is both Rand and Louis Theran, was very nice...

Pavara and Androl bonded each other. I am really looking forward to seeing how they deal with it:) (hide spoiler)]

Ch. 3-4... (view spoiler)[ Rand and Aviendha:)))

Taim's gang infuriates me! And they scare the heck out of me... P+A handled themselves so far though... I really hope Taim hasn't turned any of the Two Rivers guys... And I really hope they survive all of this... With that spike blocking the gateways, I have no idea how they are going to free Logain... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Ch. 5-6... (view spoiler)[ Boy, the meeting and the signing of The Dragon's Peace was intense!!! Moiraine showed up right at the nick of time! And that was a great scene! I wonder if all the changes he made to the original document would be enough to prevent the downfall of the Aiel...

Our dear friend, Lan, really did need the help! (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Iain, thank you for the timeline! That makes it easier to grasp...

Logan, it has been intense and unputdownable so far! It is absolutely awesome!!!

[Choko]

Ch. 7-8... (view spoiler)[ So Elaine, Bashir and Brin are mostly going to be in charge of the battle... This is too big of a scale and too huge of a war to even fathom...

Loyal is back!!! And being married is not so bad:))) I love him so much!

It's good to see Talmanes healed and back fighting... So happy for him and I really want him to make it in the end...

Bashir was totally right to have Elayne admit that Rand is the father of her children...

No, Taim just took the young guys to turn... I hate him!!! (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Ch. 9-11... (view spoiler)[ Lan and the other soldiers remembering their comrades deaths had me all emotional... I think I will be emotional and crying a lot while reading this book...

Elayne was right to invest into the Dragons guns, but Brigitta is right, any weapons of mass destruction accessible to all, are not a good idea...

The way Leilwin is trying to prove her loyalty to Egwene, I have a bad feeling she will probably sacrifice herself to save her life... I really don't want her to die!!! I want a happily ever after for L+D!!!

Finally we get to see what Mat is up to... Hahaha, and his elaborate cover stories are always hilarious:))) Abudar seems to be handling the current circumstances better than the rest of the continent. Maybe the Seanchen are doing something right...

Taim finally attacked Rand, and he brought a full circle with him... At least he now realized that Taim has openly joined The Dark One... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Ch. 12-13... (view spoiler)[ Brigitta is in danger of forgetting her previous lives:(((

That meeting in the World of Dreams between R and L, made me a tad sad for her... He is right, she has never loved and allowed herself to be loved and pity is the most he can feel for her...

Edara warned Perrin again not to go to the Dream in the flesh and we all know that is not going to happen...

Egwene makes a great Battle Amerlen! And the Ogier are fighting now... Tam is also in the middle of everything... And the White Cloaks are on their side at the moment... And Bornhold just told Perrin who killed his parents. You are right, he is going to end up fighting Slayer and Padan Fain.. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Up to Ch. 16... (view spoiler)[ Hahaha! Moiraine can still handle Rand better than anyone else:) "Can you fetch me some tea?":)))

Thank goodness for Perrin and Lanfear getting that spike out, so Androl can do his magic with the gateways! Still, too many good Asheman were turned... I don't like this at all!

Olver thinking that the Ogier were going to turn on them was kind of cute:) Loyal's thoughts on humans fascinate me!

Mat finally got back with Tuan! They do seem made for each other, and now he is not as pretty as he used to be, so people wouldn't think of him as her toy anymore:)))

The sparring duel between Rand and Tam was awesome! Rand really needs his dad's influence in his life, as well as Moiraine... We haven't gotten enough Katsuen though!!!

Taim is fighting against Lan too???? F@#ker!!!!! (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Ch. 17-18... (view spoiler)[ I am with you, Nirkatze, on wanting more Jesus-Rand moments, but I am glad we had the one in Tuan's presence. So, she gets to keep the lands she has concurred and the Domani she has now... I don't like it, but I guess it is a compromise they had to make in order to fight on the same side for the Last Battle...

Lan's battle seems so hopeless... It hurts! (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

At this point I am wondering if (view spoiler)[ Graendal, getting into the Great Generals dreams and influencing them somehow... (hide spoiler)] ...

I am at the edge of my seat!!!!

[Choko]

I am going to have a heart-attack! How am I going to survive reading this book?! This is too much!

[Choko]

Re. Ch. 17 one-upping:))) Hahaha! That had me laughing! Lovely moment for sure!!!

Ch. 19-23... (view spoiler)[ The Wise Ones give another warning about the Bale Fire weave unraveling the Pattern... I love the Wise Ones!!! This is why I am pissed that the Sheanchen are allowed to keep the hundreds of them they captured...

Egwene and Rand got to chat a bit, but she still thinks of him as the kid from her village...

"The Dark One holds the keys to his own prison!!!"

Hahaha, I remember the time Mat used to hate the lase on the clothes his queen lover had him wear, and now he is unhappy there isn't lase on the clothing the Seanchen are making for him:))) And that outfit does sound ridiculous!

I am worried about the mistakes the Great Generals are making... Could The Dark One have gotten to them somehow??? I really, really hope not!

Egwene and the Aes Sedai just got attacked by the Sharans and Demandred! We are losing so many people!!! Are we going to survive at all?!?? I mean, I am sure we will be victorious, but it will be a bitter victory with so many people dead... Romanda, others from the White Tower, so many o Brin's army... Damn it!!!

Aviendha and the Aiel are in the Blasted Lands, Shayol Ghul... I am glad Rand is with them... Rodel Ateralda is with them too... Another Great General, and at this point I am worried about their clarity of thought...

Suan!!! She is here, at Egwene's battle. I love her so much!!! She is one of the best characters in this whole series! The Gray is still here too... But we have only about 250 Aes Sedai left and more than half of the army gone... So sad! So hopeless... Suan had better make it to the end of the series alive! I will feel better about possibly losing Egwene than Suan...

I can't believe Mirella is still thinking about power and scheming, including wanting to control the Black Tower... Doesn't she understand the whole situation and how dire it is?!?! I really hope the Ashaman who get bonded change the women's minds...

I think you are right, Nirkatze... Gawin using that blood ring is pretty much signing his death warrant... And I have doubts about E+G surviving the Last Battle too... :(((( (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

I have been listening while driving and I am about 1/3 of Ch. 37. When it started and it showed it was 9hrs and 04 minutes long, I actually thought it was a mistake! It is longer than most other regular books, for goodness gracious!!! That shocked me in itself. It has to be a record or something... Then I got into it and already I was saddened on several occasions, but I had to stop, because what I feared most (view spoiler)[ actually happened!!! Suan Sanche!!! Noooooooo!!!! No, no, no!!! Not like that! It should have been in the battle, not in the command tent! I am devastated!!!

And Gawin is dying, but we kind of expected that from the moment he put those rings on...

I didn't see that bitch, Graendal taking Roark with compulsion, together with some of the Wise Ones... I hate her with passion!!! I need her dead and suffering! I am so angry with her, I have no words!!!

I need Slayer dead already too!!! I can't believe he almost killed Perrin!

The battle between The Dark One and Rand through Moridin seems to have been going on forever...

Min being the new Truth Sayer for Tuon is kind of funny:) I love the dynamics between those two and Mat. As you said, all scenes Mat has been involved in so far in this book, have been kind of awesome and the needed lighter tone this book of doom has been needing...

Yeah, the Generals situation was very well done, but as you know me by now, any time there is compulsion and mind control, I become extra paranoid and my reading takes on a frantic pace, and I get all jumpy and anxious...

I think the Dark One has to be of the Pattern, not outside it... Kind of like the yin and yang - constantly in flux, but balancing each other... At least this is how I imagine it, since that constantly fluctuating resonance is needed for all things to exist in a dynamic state, in order to have a relative balance... This is why the Jesus-Rand makes sense as the flip side to the Dark One. Light vs. Dark with the shades of grey in between... If the one is gone, then there is no need of the other, or the imbalance would lead to destruction... Maybe he could kill him only if he is killed in return... I don't know, but I am really looking forward to finding out!

It was great to see Bella again!:)

Elayne's cursing is really good at this point:) I guess she has all those soldiers from different parts of the world to thank for that:) And having Uno around has been wonderful too! Poor dude, he never wanted to become an officer:))

Taim is another one who I wish they would hurry up and kill! That is a good idea, if he put trackers on the seals in order to steal them...

I totally agree and think Vanin was after the tabac and had no idea that was The Horn... I hope he survives and we get his explanation... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Sorry I just barely been around the past couple days and missed replying in real time as you read! I'm going to have some catchup to do tomorrow. I'm sneaking peeks at your comments and nodding along with them... even as my head nods in demand of sleep...

okay, just a little bit...

re: Prologue--(view spoiler)[The prologue really does a great job of setting this up... really the whole book could have been The Last Battle, since that's essentially what we're getting... and like you say, the list of the dead is pretty long just in the beginning chapter...

I do really enjoy Talmanes' "humor" though.

I'm almost wondering if Egwene wasn't actually with Nynaeve & Elayne when they met Leilwin? Was that when she was studying with the Wise Ones, maybe? (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapters 1-2 (view spoiler)[Aviendha being sneaky is totally hilarious.

And while I can understand Egwene being worried still... Rand had been acting really bad just until recently... but yeah. You're a smart person, Egwene, can't you see he's changed?? Give him some actual trust! It's the least you could do for your old friend! (hide spoiler)]

re: 5-6 (view spoiler)[I love how Moiraine showed up!! Great entrance! And she has her own Jesus-Moiraine thing going too. Or maybe more Ghandi. She comes back very Zen. (hide spoiler)]

re: Timeline--I actually caught a line or two near the end where Perrin or Mat is thinking about how much has changed in just two years. I don't remember who.

re: Chapters 7-9 (view spoiler)[Taim v. Androl storyline is probably my favorite... it's the scariest one, the one that I felt the most worry and anger over... and I really like Androl/Pevara's dynamic. (hide spoiler)]

re: 9-11 (view spoiler)[There are all these little hints of a future--Aviendha's visions, Elayne's thoughts on how the Dragons would change warfare... even Rand's pact. Makes me really wish Jordan had lived to write a sequel series...

And I did love Mat waltzing back in to Ebou Dar! (hide spoiler)]

re: through 13 (view spoiler)[Lanfear has an interesting arc this book... I really have to wonder what is up with her...

And I love how Tam is leading the Two Rivers folks, and showing everyone how awesome they are... (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 16 (view spoiler)[I loved Mat & Tuon! That moment when she looks over her shoulder... and he calls her on it! Their romance is probably my favorite. I wonder how much was Sanderson and how much Jordan? (hide spoiler)]

re: Chapter 17-18--(view spoiler)[The Seanchan, and Tuon not feeling the need to keep to any Oaths to Oathbreakers is another thing making me wish there was a sequel series... there's so much interesting dynamic in the world even after Rand's story is done... (hide spoiler)]

Gaaah! I'm sorry I wasn't here to metaphorically hold your hand through the tense parts!

[Nirkatze]

Thoughts on Dark One--(view spoiler)[ I think that the fact that people can be Turned to the Dark is one of the biggest arguments that the Dark One is outside the Pattern.... the Pattern is about balance--it is the yin/yang in itself, and people being able to choose for themselves evil or good--while the Dark One is about everyone doing evil and destruction... basically tipping the balance too far to one side...

If it was truly part of the pattern, then there would be a way to Turn them back, or to Turn Darkfriends to the Light... I don't think there really is a force for the "light" except what people choose in their own hearts.

And remember how Rand originally wasn't only good things--it used to be that you'd have miraculous survivals and amazingly insane deaths, both divorces and marriages--both ends of a spectrum--when he walked in to town... (hide spoiler)]

re: Last Battle 1/3--(view spoiler)[I'm glad Siuan at least realized the legacy she left behind, in Egwene and the tower she was building... and she saved Min's life...

Graendal definitely gets most of my hate... though Taim's antics with Turning people is worse, but not doing to people we know... I think Nynaeve did actually figure out how to heal Compulsion, just not 100% yet... and not on the battlefield... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Yep, Egwene was apprenticing to the Wise Ones when Leilwin met Nynaeve and Elayne. This is why she doesn't have a relationship with her...

Hahaha! Ghandi-Moiraine's zennes is awesome!!!:)))

Yeah, the two year timeline was confirmed several times. I noticed that too...

I REALLY WISH WE COULD HAVE A SEQUEL!!!!

Girl, this battle is going to kill me! My nerves are shot and I am an emotional mess reading it!

3/4 of Ch. 37, The Last Battle... (view spoiler)[ So many dying!!! I really hope Mat knows what he is doing, because he is gambling a whole lot of lives in order to set up his battle trap... Tuon is supporting him in this gamble, which makes me like her even more. I do hate her stance on not keeping her oaths to oathbreakers though... When you are taking or giving an oath, it should be about your honor, not the other person's... As you said, I wish we had a sequel!

For a while there, I thought you and Rand might be right about The Dark One being outside of the Pattern and him being able to kill him, but with the vision of Rand's paradise during the battle, Jordan gave me the edge - either side without the other is stagnant and thus would lead to death and decay... I am so glad Rand was able to see that!

Is Galad dead too? Demandred kept saying it, but we didn't see the body, so I don't believe it!

I tell you, the only reason I am not worried about Loyal is because we have the book narrated by his manuscript. Otherwise I would be a total wreck! I hope his wife survives too!!! (hide spoiler)]

I am jumping back into the fray! This is just so exciting! And the scale of the battle makes us feel like we are in the middle of it too!!! Just so good!!!!!

[Choko]

Is it wrong of me that although I am rooting for Logain's Ashaman, and I want him to (view spoiler)[ win against and destroy Taim, I still don't want him to survive the battle? He is too broken to stay in charge of the Black Tower after the battle. I want Androl to become the head man at their Tower. He is best suited for it, in my opinion... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

End of Ch. 37... (view spoiler)[ Egwene!!! Noooooooo! WTH?!?? What is happening??? And all those Aes Sedai killed by Taim!!! And now that asshole guard has Elayne and he killed Brigitta!!!! And Fail maybe dead too... Bella is dead!!!! WTH?!!?!?!? Bashir, his wife, the thief taker, clan chiefs... This is just so much!!!! At least Egwene went in a blaze of glory! And yes, they have to save the Pattern so all these souls have a chance at rebirth and salvation...
Lan too?!?!?!? But at least he took Demandred out...

Nirkatze, I am just now reading your comment on the end of the chapter... I totally agree that The Wheel is what matters at this point...

Lan's and Egwene's last stands were very cinematic and I would love to see them too... (hide spoiler)]

Ch. 38-40... (view spoiler)[ Nirkatze, I read the characters Rand was referring to as you did:)

Lan is not dead!!! Bless Narishma for healing him!!! Olver blew the Horn!!! And Noal is one of The Horn's heroes! Yay!!! I am getting all emotional again... Although, honestly, I haven't stopped being emotional since the start of the book...

Dark hounds are coming and Greandal keeps using her puppets... Aviendha

Mat got in the middle of the battle as well! And the Seanchen got back to it, finally!

Were the people Grady saw dying the ones from that village where they come back to life every day, and somehow Mat used them by employing gateways??? I am not sure about the logistics, but I guess it could work. Unless it was an illusion somehow... (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Ch. 41-43... (view spoiler)[ Yep, the spy was Mogehedine... Now she is pretending to be Demandred. And she is slaughtering innocents...

I have no idea what Logain is going to do... He is too power driven... I really hope he gives the Seals to the White Tower or at least break them when time comes...

Mat and The Heroes of the Horn's chatter is funny:))) And he sent Arthur Hockwin to talk with Tuon:)))

Thom casually killing the black sisters trying to get to the cave while composing a balad, is classic! (hide spoiler)]

Graendal keeps killing folks

[Choko]

Ch. 45 to the END!!!... (view spoiler)[ So, Padan Fein and the Living Death Mist are one at this moment... I was wondering where he was... And Mat killed it!!!

Olver laughing while riding the flying beast and Mat thinking " Poor lad, he is so scared he has gone mad!" was hilarious!!!

So this is how you use Calendor! Rand, Moiraine and Nynaeve together...

Graendal's compulsion weave turned on her!!!

The battle between Rand and the Dark One was very well resolved!!! Unfortunately, since it is all down to personal choice, we will most probably find ourselves in the same place again, but at least for now, we won't have the Dark One involved in such a heavy-handed manner...

Perrin found his falcon and Brigitta is going to be reborn! I wonder if she might be one of Elayne's kids or the future Seanchen heir:))) Mat sure was happy to find out he has a kid coming:) And Olver is going to throw the Horn somewhere not to be found...

I sure wish we had gotten on page the conversation between Arthur Hockwin and Tuon! That was a glaring ommision in my opinion... I wanted the Seanchen humbled a bit, but I guess not this time around... Also, they are very iffy on following the rules about capturing channelers, which at least got Mogehedine collared. So they have several extremely powerful and knowledgeable Domani now...

And finally, Rand's death... I loved how they dealth with it! The transfer of personality was a great choice! A new start for Rand without the ability to channel and with no one knowing who he is, apart from Min, Aviendha, Elayne and the powerful freed Domani lady, who we always knew will help him die... They should have told Nynaeve and his dad, in my opinion, but I think Nynaeve will bully her way into finding out, and the rest will find peace with his death... (hide spoiler)]

THIS WAS AWESOME!!! I absolutely loved every second of it and the only thing I could wish for is a sequel, but done just as well, and unless it's Jordan or Sanderson, I don't know if it could be done...

Thank you for reading this magical series with me!!!

[Nirkatze]

Thank you too Choko! It was so much fun reading your final notes. I'm sorry again I haven't been right here... been doing a lot of housework this week and been crashing before typing up anything more than what I'm specifically reading, if even that...

I still am on the side of the Dark One being outside the pattern--especially since (view spoiler)[Rand was able to essentially kill him (hide spoiler)] but one of the great things about reading, and reading with other people, is that everything is open to interpretation and that's where the great conversations are!

I was so glad (view spoiler)[that even though so many people died (I think I'm most sad about Bella, but she died a true hero!--in fact, EVERYONE who died died a hero!) out of our original Emond's Field Five, only Egwene died... and she did so in such an epic manner, and with such hope for rebirth in the Wheel along with Gawyn, that it's almost hard to mourn her... But our three ta'veren, and all of their lady loves, as well as Nynaeve and her hubby, Moiraine and hers... most of the core survived.

I was totally tearing up when Noal saved Olver after blowing the horn. I could totally see Olver being Birgitte's Gaidal reborn... she did say he'd be just a few years older than her, and Olver's like, ten? And ugly like Gaidal... I know this is a popular theory, which I think Sanderson or Jordan has sort of debunked... or rather, one of them said Olver was important, but not because he was Gaidal--it was because of the horn. But he could still potentially be Gaidal.

I also loved the Aes Sedai cornering Cadsuane. No running now! She's totally going to "end up" being Amyrlin. LOL.

Totally agreeing about the conversation between Tuon & Artur Hawkwing. I know there are some deleted scenes swimming around somewhere in different anthologies, but I don't know if that might be one of them.... That'd be a good Sanderson question.

I've also seen Sanderson notes that he's a bit regretful of how he finished up Padan Fain's story. I do think it went a bit... anti-climactically, considering how much of an impact he had overall. I feel like he deserved a proper fight, like the Gholam... maybe with Mat & Perrin teaming up on him...

And! One recently revealed spoiler: Lanfear survived. And it makes so much sense! She wasn't really present at all on the Dark side during the battle--instead, she "sort of" had Perrin under compulsion in Tel'aran'rhiod... but considering how much a master of the dream world she's shown--even to the extent of masking her scent and displacement of air when teleporting--how would she be so lax as to let Perrin slip out of compulsion? Instead, it was a carefully measured amount, just enough to let him slip the leash, and to "kill" her in the dream--probably a copy of her--with witnesses, so that she could escape and live her life as she wished...

I loved the ending, with Rand walking off in Moridin's body... not able to use the power, but just thinking "light" and getting a fire... darn it but I so wish there was a sequel series!! (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Agree!!! Still one of the best series EVER! And everything you said! It is just so hard to mention everything... It is just so vast and so much... Once again, thank you for reading it with me:)))!

[Nirkatze]

Sending you digital hugs! It's so much fun to be able to read great books with awesome people.