SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
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Why do we see the current flood of YA scifi and fantasy?
YA literature is like a McDonald's hamburger. Cheap to produce, easily accessible, easy to eat, and satisfies a certain craving. But after awhile you get sick of it because every burger tastes the same.I've read some of the popular YA "science fiction," I don't anymore. I've not considered a single YA book I've read to be great, or even good. Nor have any of them been original. They've sustained me, and mildly entertained me.
Just like a McDonald's burger. =)
As others have said above, I have no real problem with YA fiction...people like what they like. I do have a problem with publishers jumping on that bandwagon and trivializing GREAT science fiction by eliminating it from shelves or slashing advertising funding. Just go peruse online and brick & mortar shelves. The SF sections look like they're stocked with teenage romance novels. To find really good, epic, original, groundbreaking, standalone science fiction is a CHORE these days.
My pointless 2 cents...
Neal wrote: "To find really good, epic, original, groundbreaking, standalone science fiction is a CHORE these days. "My pointless 2-cents...
Finding "really good, epic, original, groundbreaking, standalone" SFF has always been a chore. *shrugs*
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Aaron wrote: "How does Steampunk get misapplied? Unless your referring to the fact it still has punk on the end of it even though most the steampunk genre has moved away from that. Now it's basically tech that looks like the future would to someone pre the invention of the Steam-Turbine. "
It gets applied to magitech a lot, which I, personally, feel is a misapplication.
So many new faux genres. Hear, hear, Neal!Colleen is right though, too: Finding the gems has always been a chore. I'm only 30, and if I sound like the old guy angry at the kids on the lawn, well maybe I am. I don't really see that as a bad thing that I'm not "with the times". My views are totally my own, no matter how popular or unpopular they may be.
Wow. The self-congratulatory judgmental comments in here are outrageous.And Kenneth is leading the pack, of course.
Aaron wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "You could just as easily say "why do we see the current flood of UF/PNR" or "why do we see the current flood of Steam..."I was being sarcastic. Yall like Grimdark so you have no complaints. But Grimdark is just as much of a trend as the current crop of YA that yall are bitching about.
I know why Grimdark is popular. Rape and unnecessary violence. But that's selling right now so its all the rage.
YA fiction is selling like hot cakes - so it's all the rage.
Romance is the largest genre fiction seller. Period. So there is a lot of Romance SFF and Romance YA and Romance...
You get the picture.
Yall are only complaining cause its not your cup of tea. But everyone gets a turn at the table so its a bit uncharitable for yall to be so upset that the teens and those who respect YA are having their turn.
I actually don't see very much Romance sci-fi. The main overdone romance right now is PNR, but I think I mostly dislike it because the ones I have read tend to be Edgy/emo/rebels and I never went though that phase when growing up so I have a hard time relating to it. Sci-fi romance(excluding dystopian/apocalypse) I would say is underexplored right now.There are lots of people in here including me that don't like Grimdark either.
Aaron wrote: "I actually don't see very much Romance sci-fi. The main overdone romance right now is PNR. Sci-fi romance(excluding dystopian/apocalypse) I would say is underexplored right now."I've grouped Fantasy and SF together in this instance. But IIRC there are quite a handful of SPAs who are writing Romance SF. The most recent one I started was The Felig Chronicles. I haven't finished yet - I've so many library books and book club books that I often push my owned books back - but the premise is pretty interesting. Romance SF set in the future. I'm not very far in but so far there are aliens who've invaded Earth and seem to eat people.
MrsJoseph wrote: "I've grouped Fantasy and SF together in this instance. But IIRC there are quite a handful of SPAs who are writing Romance SF. The most recent one I started was The Felig Chronicles. I haven't finished yet - I've so many library books and book club books that I often push my owned books back - but the premise is pretty interesting. Romance SF set in the future. I'm not very far in but so far there are aliens who've invaded Earth and seem to eat people. "The Felig Chronicles
Post-apocalyptic sci-fi Paranormal Romance...I rest my case.
Aaron wrote: "Post-apocalyptic sci-fi Paranormal Romance...I rest my case. "Rest what case?
And you changed your post...so my response may no longer be applicable.
Also there does not seem to be an apocalypse so far - except the fact that the aliens have arrived.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Wow. The self-congratulatory judgmental comments in here are outrageous.And Kenneth is leading the pack, of course."
Please point out any "self congratulatory judgmental comments" I may have made. If not, please avoid ad hominim contributions.
I don't like "Grimdark". You will find that reading my posts shows that I've made several of them in this very thread denouncing the junk that is "Grimdark" for what it is.
I like this reading group, there are some very readable contributors with interesting insights. Trike, you are one who comes to mind. Those of you who bring the pragmatism to the table are why I continue to participate. Others seem to want to draw people into an opninion-slinging match, even if the topic is only tangentially related to their playing field of choice.
I find the discussion on trends interesting, and the discussion on genre nuances and who likes what - rather boring.
Kenneth wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Wow. The self-congratulatory judgmental comments in here are outrageous.And Kenneth is leading the pack, of course."
Please point out any "self congratulatory judgmental comme..."
*rolls eyes*
Please. I can't deal with you when you're on this kick. So I'll continue to talk around you.
Okay then. I thought so. I was hoping no one would have to deal with anyone. Can't we all just get along? I have vitriolic opinions, and I'm willing to bet I'm not alone. But I'd rather discuss than argue.
Kenneth wrote: "Yeah, I'm unwilling to listen to apologetics. YA may deal with adult issues like terminal cancer and such, but always from the perspective of a teen. Sooo, cancer is only an adult issue? Death is only an adult issue? Teens can't be affected by them at all in any meaningful or real way? Interesting perspective.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Aaron wrote: "Post-apocalyptic sci-fi Paranormal Romance...I rest my case. "Rest what case?
And you changed your post...so my response may no longer be applicable.
Also there does not seem to b..."
I tend to stealth edit for about 5minutes or so, but the dystopian/apocalypse part was still in your quote of me.
My "case" was that SF romance is underrepresented except in the cases of dystopian/apocalypse based scenarios. Aliens-arriving and subjugating earth is an apocalypse scenario granted I know nothing about the book except from what the top review said about the book.
Becky wrote: "Sooo, cancer is only an adult issue? Death is only an adult issue? Teens can't be affected by them at all in any meaningful or real way? Interesting perspective. "Well, no, they can deal with those issues... but only in happy fru-fru ways. Apparently.
MrsJoseph wrote: "*rolls eyes*Please. I can't deal with you when you're on this kick. So I'll continue to talk around you. "
Ooh, here, I'll do one:
Kenneth wrote: "Junk food sells, so junk food novels get promoted and adapted. Once in a blue moon, an ambitious director/producer will adapt a challenging book, almost always to instant acclaim. But it's just not the norm. The norm is average, and average people like average books and average stories. "
Translation: "Because, as you know, I, Kenneth, am so much above being *sneers* average, you YA-loving plebs."
colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "Translation: "Because, as you know, I, Kenneth, am so much above being *sneers* average, you YA-loving plebs." "Slow. Clap.
Nahhh Kenneth was just being a hipster hating on popular culture, didn't really strike me as an attack against YA in general just against popular crap that the studios pump out.
Aaron wrote: "My "case" was that SF romance is underrepresented except in the cases of dystopian/apocalypse based scenarios. Aliens-arriving and subjugating earth is an apocalypse scenario granted I know nothing about the book except from what the top review said about the book."
No Subjugation. Just aliens sneaking around and eating people..but not even "V" style.
The blurb is BS (but most of them are, so...no surprise there).
I only pulled a book I've recently opened - but there is a plethora of SPA Romance SFF.
One of the books I own but have not opened is Nebula Nights: Love Among the Stars. There are 11 stories/books there. I've no ability to say anything about details as I've not opened it. But if you're interested in Romance SFF, here's a good place to start.
If you really want more detailed recs - I can look into finding you some. I just haven't read very many lately as I've focused on a different path/subgenre.
Aaron wrote: "Nahhh Kenneth was just being a hipster hating on popular culture, didn't really strike me as an attack against YA in general just against popular crap that the studios pump out."We've been on this merry-go-round with Kenneth already. He's said some nasty and insulting things. Afterwards the "Who? Me?" always happens. It's a broken record of insults. Which is why I'm tired of his games.
Aaron wrote: "Nahhh Kenneth was just being a hipster hating on popular culture, didn't really strike me as an attack against YA in general just against popular crap that the studios pump out."I was using YA-loving as a generalized sneer, but... aside from that, "being a hipster hating on popular culture" still fits the criteria. ;)
colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "I was using YA-loving as a generalized sneer, but... aside from that, "being a hipster hating on popular culture" still fits the criteria. ;) "lol
Neal wrote: "YA literature is like a McDonald's hamburger. Cheap to produce, easily accessible, easy to eat, and satisfies a certain craving. But after awhile you get sick of it because every burger tastes th..."Well, sure, some of it is. So is much 'adult' lit.
But there's thoughtful, provocative, challenging YA, and thoughtful, provocative, challenging adult, too.
Generalizations like yours make no sense.
Becky wrote: "Sooo, cancer is only an adult issue? Death is only an adult issue? Teens can't be affected by them at all in any meaningful or real way? Interesting perspective."colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "Well, no, they can deal with those issues... but only in happy fru-fru ways. Apparently."
That small exchange pretty much sums up my thoughts on the topic. I didn't know there was an age restriction on emotions/trauma. Or mayhaps YA in general is being judged solely on the most popular novels out there, particularly the ones being made into blockbusters? If that's the case I have to assume that it's okay for little whippersnappers to make giant generalizations about adult fiction based on 50 Shades.
I'm fine with anyone hating anything for whatever reason, but to say YA books don't deal with these issues is incorrect, and to say it doesn't count due to character age seems a bit silly.
*Edit: to add that Cheryl's comment also resonates with me. "Generalizations like yours make no sense."
Please children, play nice :-)There is absolutely nothing wrong with reading and enjoying YA or with the pople who do so, be they old or young themselves.
It's just not for me, and I will explain why:
The thing about the YA I've read is that it's either about
A. Teenagers falling in love, or
B. Teenagers saving the world
Please, before playing the gross generalization card against me, hear me out.
Teenagers falling in love doesn't interest me in the slightest.
Maybe it's just me and my moral values playing up against me, but I don't feel it's OK for a 40-something male in today's society to read about the love life of teenage girls (which most of the romance sub genre of YA SFF seems to be about).
Teenagers saving the world, is unrealistic at best and a horrible example of child labour at worst.
"Examples, give us examples to clarify your vaporous point", I hear you cry.
Well, here you are, my dear friends:
Unrealistic: The Hunger Games.
I haven't read the book, only seen the first movie, so I could be talking out of my behind here, but here we have teenagers who rise up and save the world. While the notion is fine and admirable, I think we can all agree that it's not very realistic. When in the history of the world has it been teenagers who save the day? They are (broadly speaking and generalizing to make a point, I know all teenagers are not like this but still) too busy chasing girls or boys (or both) and bitching about adults to do something useful with their lives.
Child labour: Harry Potter.
Why did Dumbledore have Harry and his friends to do all the heavy lifting in the fight against Voldemort? There must have been immensely more powerful wizards who could have saved the world and not needed to come of age first.
So here it is again: I want realism in my novels.
I have no problems with advanced technology or aliens or flying cars, because those things could really happen, even if the chances are slim.
I have a problem with alternate reality stories. "What if Hitler won WW2?" I don't care. He didn't, luckily, so it's useless to speculate about it.
The YA SFF I've read or seen at the movies is not realistic, and that's my problem with it.
I would love to be proven wrong.
Please recommend me some realistic YA SFF and I will gladly change my point of view!
I understand that you dont like non-realism, and thats your own personal taste but it seems you link realism to adult themes. With that notion then every fantasy book out there is ya because of flying dragons and wizards cursing the land. And I dont know why try to link harry potter to realism....it is a fantasy novel with emphasis on fantasy. There are as many good "YA" books as "adult" books and to dismiss a whole group because of 3 examples is kind of ludicrous.
Johan wrote: "Child labour: Harry Potter.Why did Dumbledore have Harry and his friends to do all the heavy lifting in the fight against Voldemort? There must have been immensely more powerful wizards who could have saved the world and not needed to come of age first."
Have you read Harry Potter? Because that is explained, and in fact is a huge point of the series.
Johan wrote: "Unrealistic: The Hunger Games. I haven't read the book, only seen the first movie, so I could be talking out of my behind here, but here we have teenagers who rise up and save the world. While the notion is fine and admirable, I think we can all agree that it's not very realistic. When in the history of the world has it been teenagers who save the day? They are (broadly speaking and generalizing to make a point, I know all teenagers are not like this but still) too busy chasing girls or boys (or both) and bitching about adults to do something useful with their lives. "
Seriously? Your issue with the realism in Hunger Games isn't the set-up of having a game-to-the-death involving teenagers and children, it's the notion that Katniss is the one who becomes a figurehead for the rebellion when she should "realistically" only be chasing boys/girls and bitching?
We're not talking about some rich, spoiled kid who has the luxury of only caring about those things. We're talking about a teenager in a poor area who is the provider for her family - risking her life to be so - and who volunteered to save the life of her younger sister.
But, yeah, that's totally unrealistic because you're acknowledged yet discarded generalization is obviously not ludicrous. I mean, it's not like our own world doesn't have child soldiers or anything: https://www.dosomething.org/facts/11-...
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Becky already addressed the fact that the reason it had to be Harry is addressed somewhat belaboredly in the books.
Hell, I'm not even a fan of 'Hunger Games', but damn...
Johan - maybe you'd be better served by citing some books that you think epitomize your view of realistic "adult" SFF? Because right now, you are talking out of your behind - you're trying to discuss major themes in books you haven't even read, based solely on the fact that the main characters are teens, which makes no sense to me at all.
Johan, two words- directors cut. when you watch the movie "the abyss" it doesn't make sense. when you see the directors cut everything is cleared up, except the question "who in their right mind would have preferred the commercial release to the directors cut?
Becky wrote: "Johan - maybe you'd be better served by citing some books that you think epitomize your view of realistic "adult" SFF? Because right now, you are talking out of your behind - you're trying to discu..."Becky's right. It seems that you haven't read any of these books and are making assumptions about all YA books only from "what you've heard."
Genre naming has gone too DANG far: the other day I read a novel that was post apocalyptic steam punk zombie novel with a twist of grim-dark.
Don wrote: "Genre naming has gone too DANG far: the other day I read a novel that was post apocalyptic steam punk zombie novel with a twist of grim-dark."lolololol
Well you are all lucky. I like SF with heavy S&M and there are almost no books and definitely no films like that. So I can dislike everything :)
V.W. wrote: "Well you are all lucky. I like SF with heavy S&M and there are almost no books and definitely no films like that. So I can dislike everything :)"While I've not run across any SF with S&M, you might find some at Blushing Books. Also, I've heard of a really popular M/m fantasy that's supposed to be heavy in the S&M. Also (view spoiler). If you're interested I can go dig up the title.
I think it's a bad idea to judge a book based on Hollywoodized interpretations of it, and an even worse idea to judge a whole category of books (those which are marketed as being for or about teens) based on Hollywood's interpretation of a selection of books they feel will make profitable movies. We should keep in mind that "YA" is a marketing designation. Not all "YA" books are written that way - publishers will market them to the audience they think will be most receptive and most likely to spend money on them. But that doesn't change the book - it just means that now it's labelled differently, and people who are affected by such labels will make value judgements based on it. As an example, The Book Thief by Markus Zusak is only marketed as "young adult" in the US. Everywhere else, as far as I know, it's just a book which happens to have a young protagonist.
If that's the only reason for writing off a book, well, I call that silly and closed-minded. But hey, it's not my life.
Becky wrote: "I think it's a bad idea to judge a book based on Hollywoodized interpretations of it, and an even worse idea to judge a whole category of books (those which are marketed as being for or about teens..."A lot of the books I read 10+ years ago that were adult have been relabeled as YA in order to hit additional markets.
Also, some of the most traumatizing books I've ever read were YA. It's all dependent on the author.
we should label all books as YA! More sale and more chances to get a film out of it. 50 shades of YA.
MrsJoseph wrote: "A lot of the books I read 10+ years ago that were adult have been relabeled as YA in order to hit additional markets.Also, some of the most traumatizing books I've ever read were YA. It's all dependent on the author. "
Exactly.
And just on the flip side of the coin, we have Neil Gaiman's book The Ocean At The End of The Lane, which was specifically marketed as an "adult" book - which I felt was simplistic and juvenile. I was less-than-impressed, and I count Neil Gaiman as among my favorite authors.
Many disagree with my opinion of Ocean, which is fine... but I think it goes to show that slapping a label of "adult" or "YA" on a novel does not signify the quality of the work.
(Edited for clarity and to quote who I was replying to.)
Don wrote: "Genre naming has gone too DANG far: the other day I read a novel that was post apocalyptic steam punk zombie novel with a twist of grim-dark."I think it's perfect. What that tells me is avoid this book.
Oh dear...Sorry for the long post and we're way off track from my original point here, but I want to address each of your posts in order below because I think the debate is interesting:
Mustafa: Yes, I DO link realism to adult themes. And with adult themes I mean moral ambiguity, political controversy and complex problems that do not have simple solutions. The real world is not black and white. If there had been a simple solution to poverty and religious oppression we would have found it by now.
And no, if you had read any of my previous posts in this thread, you would have seen that I do not have a problem with fantastical themes like dragons and wizards, as long as they are true to the rules of their own particular settings. What I DO have a problem with is novels about people not being people.
- Please, give me ONE single real world example in the whole history of the human race where a teenager has saved the day.
Becky: Yes, I have read Harry Potter, and I like the books in the same way I like Little Red Riding Hood and Snow White. They are good stories, but they are still ridiculous if you look at them from a logical point of view.
I do understand that Harry is magically immune to Voldemort's powers and how that can be useful, and I can buy that. But the whole idea that all the good wizards in the world couldn't have come up with a better plan than to leave it to a single hormone driven teenager to save the world is frankly ludicrous.
And Jesus being the son of God is a huge point of the Bible, but that doesn't make that book any more believable.
- Please, give me ONE single real world example in the whole history of the human race where a teenager has saved the day.
Colleen: Yes, Catniss hailing from the poor area and doing it all to save her little sister is all very admirable, and yes, we do have child soldiers today, and that is a horrible thing that we need to address. But do you really think that books showing children and young adults that it's OK to kill other children with bow and arrows is the way to convince them that child soldiers is a bad thing?
- Please, give me ONE single real world example in the whole history of the human race where a teenager has saved the day.
Becky: OK, here are some SFF I consider to be both adult and realistic:
Anything by: Alastair Reynolds, Joe Abercrombie (except his recent YA series, that is), James S.A. Corey, Richard Morgan, Ian McDonald, Iain M. Banks, Philip K. Dick, Joe Haldeman, China Mieville, Neal Stephenson, Frank Herbert, Alfred Bester, Heinlein, Lovecraft, Moorcock and most short stories by Neil Gaiman.
There's not a single female writer on that list, and that really saddens me. Please recommend some so I can read them and add them to my list.
I never said the age of the protagonist has anything to do with the novel being classified as YA or not. Lord of the Flies is hardly a children's story.
Don: I couldn't agree with you more. The directors cut of The Abyss is a vastly greater movie compared to the theatrical release.
What I can't tell is if you're agreeing with my overall point in this thread or not :-)
MrsJoseph: Please.
I already said I haven't read The Hunger Games, only seen the Hollywood adaptation, but my original point in this thread was that the big evil Industry (with a capital I) is destroying the entertainment world with their quick Hollywood versions (always worse than the book, I'm sure we can agree) and badly disguised cheap knock offs of the current best seller in order to milk every single lousy buck out of the trend of the hour. It has always been thus, but I feel it's accelerating day by day. Feel free to disagree with me on this if you want.
Again: I. am. not. in. any. way. saying. that. YA. is. bad.
That is your own (and that of several other contributors in this thread) interpretation of my posts. I'm just saying I prefer more adult oriented material, because I find YA to be unrealistic according to the previous points I've addressed. I'm voicing a personal opinion here. Nothing more.
V.W.: If you're into SF S&M I can recommend Ghost by John Ringo. It's hands down the worst novel I've ever read, and it contains all the tropes I've been accused of advocating in this thread: rape, BDSM, under age sex, ludicrous action stunts, right wing Christian American values and gratuitous nudity. Just mentioning that novel will probably get me flamed here, but I will still post it as a warning to all intelligent human beings everywhere.
It's worth a few torches to save you from that pile of offal.
Becky: "publishers will market them to the audience they think will be most receptive and most likely to spend money on them"
MrsJoseph: "A lot of the books I read 10+ years ago that were adult have been relabeled as YA in order to hit additional markets"
Mustafa: "we should label all books as YA! More sale and more chances to get a film out of it"
To all of the above: MY WHOLE BLEEDIN' POINT!
We all agree on this.
Read my original post again. My gripe is not with the authors who write YA or the readers who read them, but with the darn Industry who bury us in their pile of rubbish knock offs and sequels in order to make a quick buck. Most of those happen to be targeted at a YA audience, because that is where the money is, as so many of you have already stated.
Anyone who disagrees with me on that, please raise your hands.
Come on now.
Anyone?
I thought so.
Sorry dude. You lost us all the minute you started bashing YA stories that you don't seem to have read. You were asking questions that were answered in the text.You want to talk marketing? We're here for you. You want to imply or state out right BS statements about YA Lit...well, you're going to have a much smaller group to talk to.
BTW, your post was a bit tl;dr. So...I missed most of your point.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Sorry dude. You lost us all the minute you started bashing YA stories that you don't seem to have read."For the last time and for the love of everything that is good in the world, I do not bash YA!
I'm just saying it's not my cup of tea, and that is my own and perfectly valid opinion, but stating thus does not imply I hate YA in any way.
If I state that I prefer Scotch because of the smoky flavour I am not implying that I hate the sweeter Irish whiskey.
If I say I like blue socks I am not saying I loathe red socks.
When I vote for party X I am not saying the people who vote for party Y are idiots.
The world is not black and white.
And I'm afraid I don't understand what "BTW, your post was a bit tl;dr. So...I missed most of your point." means.
If you mean it is too long, I realize that it is and I am sorry for that, but there were so many interesting replies I wanted to address, and replying to each of them individually would have created so many different threads in this topic that it would have been impossible to follow.
Look for your name in the long text and you can read my replies to your specific issues. Maybe you are asking questions that were answered in the text... ;-)
I honestly don't know why you compare hunger games with the real world and call it unrealistic but you don't compare fantasy books with the real world. So a wizard shooting fireballs and training young kids to do fire magic is oke because it within the rules of the fantasy world but a kid fighting gladiator style in a dystopian world should be compared with real world history and rules. So why shouldn't the hunger games be considered real because it is still within the boundaries of its setting. Dystopian=fantasy. fantasy =/= realism. When was the last time you saw a person shooting fireballs from his wand or saw a giant lizard spitting fire? give me ONE single real world example in the whole history of the human race where a giant lizard was spitting fire.There is no such thing as "adult" theme unless we are talking about porn. Realism =/= adult.
A book is a made up story(unless we are talking about biographies or philosophy) and some have a message and some do not. Surrealistic books tend to mind bending and real unrealistic but it doesn't make it a kids story.
Cheryl wrote: "Generalizations like yours make no sense."It's an opinion, mine alone. =) I also never said people who like YA novels have bad taste, and some people here seem to be making that defensive extrapolation. I understand everyone likes what they like. Personally, I find the genre creatively stunted...it's only an opinion because I have different tastes. The one thing the genre has going for it is decent characterization.
As someone else said, "Not my cup of tea."
But I do agree with Johan...the bandwagon jumping publishing industry is burying us under a pile of mediocrity.
Johan wrote: "Yes, I DO link realism to adult themes. And with adult themes I mean moral ambiguity, political controversy and complex problems that do not have simple solutions. The real world is not black and white."Right. And the real world is not "adult" vs "YA" either. I'm not quite following how moral ambiguity and complex problems are reserved only for those who've reached their majority and are completely unknown to anyone under 18, or whatever magical cut-off is for what you consider to be adult-enough for them.
And I think you've missed the point regarding Harry Potter. It's not just that he's "immune" to Voldemort... (view spoiler)
I think I missed your point about Jesus... Wasn't he an adult? 33 surely must meet your criteria, right? Or does he not count because his story began when he still in the womb?
"Please, give me ONE single real world example in the whole history of the human race where a teenager has saved the day."
Since you ask SOOO nicely, here you go: Joan of Arc http://www.history.com/topics/saint-j...
You claim to not be bashing YA, yet your every comment is about how worthless it is and why the industry shouldn't be foisting it on society. Can you even acknowledge that the marketing designation can ALSO be applied to quality books, with original and interesting and important content? It's not all shoddy knock-offs and retreads of current trends.
Also, why do you specify Gaiman's short stories? He's written adult novels - do you not think that they qualify?
These things often pave the way for content that would have never been considered otherwise as well. Would we have Game of Thrones on HBO without the success of Lord of the Rings? Would we have a new Mad Max movie (yeah I know, the jury is still out on that one) without the success of Hunger Games?Like Nirvana with the grunge movement in the 90s, we got a lot of terrible copycat bands for several years. But there were also some good bands that got publicity that never would have without them.
Sooner or later they will have to start looking outside of YA for quality content that fills the genres that are hot, and they will.
Agreed, Charles. There's a lot of crap out there (for ALL ages of reader) and one has to sift through it to find the gold. That's always how it goes. I personally abhor the trend of the last couple years which has seen the rise of "new adult" books. Which are, technically, marketed toward adults. That doesn't make it any better or worthy than something that is great (like The Book Thief) which has been marketed here in the US as being for teens.
Find the gold, people!
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
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Lots of things get misapplied. I think most of what gets called Steampunk isn't, but I don't hate the term because people don't know how to use it. That's just silly."
How does Steampunk get misapplied? Unless your referring to the fact it still has punk on the end of it even though most the steampunk genre has moved away from that. Now it's basically tech that looks like the future would to someone pre the invention of the Steam-Turbine.