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H(a)ppy
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Happy by Nicola Barker - Jan BOTM
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Just wanted to state that I read it all on the 1st, and now have a hardcover copy if anyone in Canada wants it sent to them (especially since I know this one is hard to get a hold of).
Mod
I put you name in for hosting.
Awesome: to get people started here's some info (from Penguin):Synopsis:
Imagine a perfect world where everything is known, where everything is open, where there can be no doubt, no hatred, no poverty, no greed. Imagine a System which both nurtures and protects. A Community which nourishes and sustains. An infinite world. A world without sickness, without death. A world without God. A world without fear.
Could you...might you be happy there?
H(A)PPY is a post-post apocalyptic Alice in Wonderland, a story which tells itself and then consumes itself. It's a place where language glows, where words buzz and sparkle and finally implode. It's a novel which twists and writhes with all the terrifying precision of a tiny fish in an Escher lithograph – a book where the mere telling of a story is the end of certainty.
Author's Bio:
Nicola Barker was born in Ely in 1966 and spent part of her childhood in South Africa. She is the author of twelve novels – including Wide Open, Darkmans, The Yips and In the Approaches – and two short story collections. She has been twice longlisted and once shortlisted for the Man Booker Prize, has won the IMPAC, the John Llewellyn Rhys and the Hawthornden Prizes, and was named one of Granta’s 20 Best Young British Writers in 2003. Her latest novel, H(A)PPY, won the 2017 Goldsmiths Prize and was longlisted for the Women’s Prize for Fiction 2018.
Pre Questions:
1) have you heard of this author before, or even read anything else by her?
2) This is a work of postmodern literature: have you read any other postmodern lit on or off the list? How do you feel about it?
Questions:1) This book has been described as a reimagining of "Alice in Wonderland", did you get that sense from the book? Which parallels could you draw between the two?
2) What did you think of ' the graph' and the society of 'The Youth'? (What is it meant to comment on, do you think it was successful, etc)?
3) What post-modern narrative devices did you notice throughout the book? Did you feel like they contributed to or subtracted from any over themes/storytelling choices?
4) How does music and music history contribute to the story? (also would love to know if anyone does read it to the suggested music accompaniment- I didn't).
5) By the end, do you feel like the main character giving into The Cathedral, or maintaining order with The Graph is a worse fate? How do you interpret the ending of the book?
6) and finally, what did you think of the book, and do you feel like it earned it's place on the list?
Discuss!
Pre Questions: I have never read anything by the author before. I have read “post modern” literature and have found much of it interesting as it tends to spark ideas about language and about the nature of writing while usually giving us some hint of a story. If on a Winter’s Night a Traveler by Italian Calvino is one from the list I appreciated.
Mod
1) This book has been described as a reimagining of "Alice in Wonderland" did you get that sense from the book? Which parallels could you draw between the two?The tone of Alice in Wonderland and Alice through the Looking Glass for all its oddities and actual violence ("Off with Her Head"), is one of surprise and delight. The tone of H(A)ppy is not happy. It has a tension, not of an Alice like fantasy, but of a post apocalyptic disaster moving from bad to worst quality. There is anxiety, frustration and real fear not only in the characters but also reflected in the actual writing.
2) What did you think of ' the graph' and the society of 'The Youth'? (What is it meant to comment on, do you think it was successful, etc)?
Yes, I think that we have moved in our current time to demand for constant feedback. You can not do anything any more without being asked to fill out a survey on how it went. "Influencers" measure themselves by their clicks, followers, immediate views which of course turns into cash for those capable of generating high numbers in those areas. I believe that Barker is commenting on this phenomenon and sketching out where it may lead us as a society. It is interesting that there is no opposite of The Youth, although I guess the Unknown may contain some old people. Youth is the ideal and the perfection and the graph keeps one on track with that perfection.
3) What post-modern narrative devices did you notice throughout the book? Did you feel like they contributed to or subtracted from any over themes/storytelling choices?
I read this as a physical library book. I would like to know how well an audio book worked with the meta text. I felt that the author described the multiple layers of story telling to good effect with the different type faces, spaces, Capital letters etc. I loved the page where the only word on the page was "quiet". I did not get the green over printed code with the symbols on them...or rather I got that the computer systems that were controlling MiraA were breaking down as a result of her being flawed and not adhering to the strict requirements of The Youth, but I didn't understand why those particular symbols or code.
4) How does music and music history contribute to the story? (also would love to know if anyone does read it to the suggested music accompaniment- I didn't).
I did listen to some of Agustin Barrios music as recorded by others. I could find his actual recordings but they would have cost more. I understood from the music I did listen to more about the incredible soulful nature of the use of tremolo. It is very haunting and moving music and combines the love of Bach with the folk tunes of his native country. His masterpiece was called The Cathedral and therefore the story reflects the building of a creative edifice that will not protect from physical reality but will protect the creative essence.
5) By the end, do you feel like the main character giving into The Cathedral, or maintaining order with The Graph is a worse fate? How do you interpret the ending of the book?
Well, generally speaking, I think that the book was telling us we are doomed....
Living with the Graph was not real living...
Living without any music, but with hunger and pain was certainly not a h(A)ppy ending. However, one did get a brief glimpse of human caring interaction (but it was from the same person that hurt her in the first place) and one presumes that the essence of "story telling" is preserved in the Unknown but I bet the stories are not h(A)ppy ones.
6) and finally, what did you think of the book, and do you feel like it earned it's place on the list?
I did think it was unique enough to be on the list. I felt it was better than The Circle which is also on the list and deals with some of the same themes although in the current age rather than the future.
I didn't love the book but I did really appreciate the introduction to Agustin Barrios.
Note #1: for those interested in languages; although there is a reference to Guarani being outlawed in Paraguay in the book, Guarani is one of the official languages of Paraguay now and further almost everyone in the country, regardless of ethnic origin, speaks the language (77%). There are also about 20 other indigenous languages spoken in Paraguay but Guarani is the only official language besides Spanish.
Note#2: I think we should test GPT3 and ask for a story told in the style of Nichola Barker's H(A)PPY.
Pre-question
I have not read any of this author's works before so this is my first. The synopsis sounds right up my street so I am looking forward to parting company with Atrocity and getting onto this.
I have not read any of this author's works before so this is my first. The synopsis sounds right up my street so I am looking forward to parting company with Atrocity and getting onto this.
I have just started this one and I love the physical layout of the book the different coloured words and the gaps in the writing I am intrigued to find out where this is going but so far no Alice vibes for me
Mod
Kristel wrote: "I am just a bit past half way and no Alice vibes for me. I agree with Gail that this book leaves you feeling anxious and uncomfortable."Yeah that's why I put that question out there. I liked the book (and moved it from 3 to 4 stars after reflection), but I did not get Alice from it either. Maybe only in the vaguest sense that it is a strange land that is somehow removed from real life. I think the book stands on its own without that description.
For the pre-questions: I hadn't read anything by her before/hadn't heard of before starting this list. After this one though, I might be interested in checking out some of her other work.
I have mixed feelings on post-modern lit. I tend to feel it works best when the structure assists in conveying a theme (Name of the Rose and semiotics, House Mother Normal in that it is written to convey the pov of individuals with dementia), and there are some good works that doo deal in the abstract of "what is literature and what are its limits". However, I think too many of them have done this latter theme to redundancy and the point where it isn't an interesting question anymore (kind of like too many modern art pieces exist to ask 'what is art?' to the point it becomes navel-gazey and boring). As well, I find some of it exists to just be as obscure and self-congratulating as possible (I feel this with Beckett sometimes).
But, I did think this one was clever in using unconventional strategies to convey its message and greatly enjoyed that.
...And to answer the remaining questions:2) I agree with Gail's assessment: it's about the different ways we live in a culture with only increasing compulsory validation and fanatical consensus. At first I felt like it leaned too heavily into a "individualism good collectivity bad" premise that I think plagues a lot of mediocre dystopias, but on reflection I realized it was more nuanced than that and wasn't really a critique of collectivism as much as the implicit censorship natural to an excess of freedom to share, if anything.
Arguably social media and influencer culture results from an abundance of freedom of speech and platforming, yet still has a flattening effect on culture in terms of creative expression, diverse viewpoints, and natural reactions/living. So many things are the product of feedback algorithms instead of ingenuity, mass consensus can influence others to not consider other viewpoints or be wary to voice them, and so many aspects of social media encourage people into always presenting a palatable, always aesthetically appealing manufactured life (like people have started to think that even their clutter needs to be aesthetically perfect- its so silly). It's created some of the least daring eras of film, fashion, literature, design, music, and philosophy on the whole.
3) I also liked the quiet chapter- thought that was very cool. When the symbols (presumably from the graph) start to overwhelm the thought process- thought that was a great way to convey that too- as well as the chaos of the cathedral.
And, while it took me a while to get it, I like where the text abruptly changes colour on random words. I felt like that was to represent the different reaction from The Graph on what emotional valences those words and thoughts were being evaluated as. Overall, I feel like they all contributed to the quality of the storytelling.
4) Gail wrote: "I did listen to some of Agustin Barrios music as recorded by others. I could find his actual recordings but they would have cost more..." I'm glad you tried it out! This was one bit I had a bit of trouble enmeshing with the rest of it, I'm sure partly because I'm a real music novice. I did get the general sense that it had to do with making a point that profound music often comes from a daring and going against the grain that is in opposition to The Graph.
5) Gotta agree with Gail about the sense of Doom lol. The way of The Youth does seem like a hollow barely existence, but it is also alluded to that the way of The Cathedral is not some Utopian cure all either. As the book warns, the exploitation of the Earth by mass corporatism, the prevalence of misinformation and bigotry , and war and violence are also the way of a fractured, oppositional, and 'free info' society. It almost feels like an 'extremism begets extremism' warning at the end- don't know how other people feel about that- where The Cathedral and The Graph cyclically replace each other in constant phases of different sorts of oppression. I guess it begs the question of whether any system (or lack of one) is ever truly free and H(A)PPY.
6) I went in skeptical that another new, minimally circulated, post modern lit book should be on the list before its had time to percolate with aging well and having cultural impact. But, this really was a unique feat of imagination and I think a good example of how to convey meaning in new and exciting ways. I'd probably keep it in favor of eliminating some more books about a writer with vague ennui having an affair lol.
Gail wrote: "Note #1: for those interested in languages; although there is a reference to Guarani being outlawed in Paraguay in the book, Guarani is one of the official languages of Paraguay now and further almost everyone in the country, regardless of ethnic origin, speaks the language (77%). There are also about 20 other indigenous languages spoken in Paraguay but Guarani is the only official language besides Spanish.Note#2: I think we should test GPT3 and ask for a story told in the style of Nichola Barker's H(A)PPY."
1) very cool info!
2) lol! I wonder how that would go. And interesting considering there's a lot of discussion right now about AI writing and art contributing to the death of original works and the blandness imposed by amalgamation.
1) I have now finished the book and still no Alice vibes for me. I liked Gail's thought about this .
2) Gail and Amanda have covered this well. The idea of individuals constantly seeking validation for whatever they do and scarily for whatever they think as well. The graph literally controls everything except dreams.
3) The book layout itself the use of coloured words the page spacing. I liked the guitar page as I think it showed how intrinsic music is to Mira A's life. For me these are what made the story so great I loved them.
4) I did not read to the music I am not a very musical person so the musical symbolism was lost on me however I liked the idea that the musical young are the ones with the most "abnormalities" as they are creative and are not happy to just let things be. They want to discover and invent.
5) I think Mira A is manipulated by forces beyond her control. From the point of view of an easier life I think going along with the Graph would have provided Mira A with a lot of things she needed validation, inclusion, friendship, company of like minded individuals but there is a heavy price for that. The ending of the book is an odd one as to me it just ended really abruptly leaving the reader high and dry. I think Mira A will find a place for herself but I am not sure it will be happy.
6. This gets a rare 5 star rating from me. Yes I believe it deserves its place on this the list as it is a new and unique way of telling a story and as Amanda says I would happily get rid of some of the older man/younger woman books on the list.
2) Gail and Amanda have covered this well. The idea of individuals constantly seeking validation for whatever they do and scarily for whatever they think as well. The graph literally controls everything except dreams.
3) The book layout itself the use of coloured words the page spacing. I liked the guitar page as I think it showed how intrinsic music is to Mira A's life. For me these are what made the story so great I loved them.
4) I did not read to the music I am not a very musical person so the musical symbolism was lost on me however I liked the idea that the musical young are the ones with the most "abnormalities" as they are creative and are not happy to just let things be. They want to discover and invent.
5) I think Mira A is manipulated by forces beyond her control. From the point of view of an easier life I think going along with the Graph would have provided Mira A with a lot of things she needed validation, inclusion, friendship, company of like minded individuals but there is a heavy price for that. The ending of the book is an odd one as to me it just ended really abruptly leaving the reader high and dry. I think Mira A will find a place for herself but I am not sure it will be happy.
6. This gets a rare 5 star rating from me. Yes I believe it deserves its place on this the list as it is a new and unique way of telling a story and as Amanda says I would happily get rid of some of the older man/younger woman books on the list.
Mod
2) What did you think of ' the graph' and the society of 'The Youth'? (What is it meant to comment on, do you think it was successful, etc)? I wanted to know more. I always felt that I needed to know more. These young seemed to be mechanized, wired, not quite really human.
3) What post-modern narrative devices did you notice throughout the book? Did you feel like they contributed to or subtracted from any over themes/storytelling choices? multiple themes, using structure to create atmosphere with different size fonts, colors, some actual art work, very good graphic art work I might add. I don't think this book could work as an audio.
4) How does music and music history contribute to the story? (also would love to know if anyone does read it to the suggested music accompaniment- I didn't). I am not knowledgeable about music. I would only comment that I didn't always understand the music components. The indigenous guitar player, the use of math alongside music, etc
5) By the end, do you feel like the main character giving into The Cathedral, or maintaining order with The Graph is a worse fate? How do you interpret the ending of the book? I felt that Mira A's life was pretty empty and unfulfilling, but as she began to oscillate and her world started coming apart and things got chaotic, I wasn't sure that it was a good trade off either. But I had hope as there were people there that perhaps she could connect with and have some fulfilling relationships.
6) and finally, what did you think of the book, and do you feel like it earned its place on the list? I think it was deserving to have it's place on the list because it is a very creative addition to dystopian literature and also did an excellent job of reflecting many issues of society and perhaps a warning of what could be in the future.
1. I did get Alice vibes. Not as far as the plot goes, it's not a retelling in that sense. But Mira A does go down the rabbit hole of historical research and then everything starts to unravel to the point where she doesn't know what is real and is losing control of her body. But I also think that maybe her life before the rabbit hole was the Wonderland, and she is actually exiting it.2. The Graph, the Sensor, and The Youth definitely gave me a bit of a social media combined with VR feeling. Very cyberpunk. But I'm not at all sure what the author was trying to say. The religious element definitely threw me. The Youth tried to remove all strong emotion, so no religious fervor, and the System was pretty much their object of veneration. I see why they couldn't allow any other deities. But I'm not sure why Kite pretty much names religion as the number one enemy. Maybe the sense of the numinous is more difficult to medicate away than love and desire, but again, they basically had the religion of the System going, so you'd think they already had that covered.
4. I did listen to the music. I found a bunch of those old recordings on YouTube, with scratchy vinyl sound and all. I listened to it throughout and when a specific song was mentioned I made sure to go to that song. I couldn't find a recording of him playing The Cathedral though, so there I had to go with another musician. I also switched to Bach's Well Tempered Clavier played on organ when I got to that part of the book. I love it when a book has a soundtrack like that. Makes the whole experience more immersive. I definitely get how Mira would long for a rawer sound. The autotune and carefully designed pop music of today was taken to an extreme in her world. Only clean, "perfect", sound that didn't invoke too much emotion was allowed.
5. There were no good options there. Death of the spirit or death of the body. Her surroundings where she woke up at the end were worse than I expected. I thought at least some of the stuff Kite said about the outside was exaggerated propaganda. I hope that all the broken glass and gunfire etc wasn't entirely real, but just the way the world seemed harsh and loud to her after having been in a carefully bland environment all her life.
6. I think it deserves its place on the list. It was a strange book, and I didn't 100% get it, but that's not necessarily bad. It really activated my thoughts, eyes, and ears. Like Amanda I definitely prefer this reading experience to yet another white dude with ennui.
1) This book has been described as a reimagining of "Alice in Wonderland", did you get that sense from the book? Which parallels could you draw between the two?I didn't think of Alice in Wonderland while reading. I can see some parallels ("Wonderland" is potentially a scary place) but probably more differences. For example, no one opposed Alice's exploration, in fact her surroundings encouraged her to explore ("Drink Me" etc), while Mira was being constrained at every turn.
2) What did you think of ' the graph' and the society of 'The Youth'? (What is it meant to comment on, do you think it was successful, etc)?
I initially saw this aspect as a critique of Buddhist philosophy, meditation and mindfulness - non-attachment, letting thoughts and emotions pass, etc. This had been turned into a societal rule, enforced by surveillance of the brain. But later I thought perhaps this was not so much a criticism as just to show that even the most benign and healthy practices are oppressive and damaging when imposed on everyone.
3) What post-modern narrative devices did you notice throughout the book? Did you feel like they contributed to or subtracted from any over themes/storytelling choices?
All the graphics and colours. They were fun, but sometimes confusing.
4) How does music and music history contribute to the story? (also would love to know if anyone does read it to the suggested music accompaniment- I didn't).
Music was important to the main character and her friends. Playing music is something that can absorb and calm a person's thoughts. But then all the history ran counter to that. It didn't seem like anthropological/political history would be something Mira could have learned about in her culture. Was that just for us, the readers?
5) By the end, do you feel like the main character giving into The Cathedral, or maintaining order with The Graph is a worse fate? How do you interpret the ending of the book?
It seemed very like Brave New World and other dystopian books where there is the dichotomy of a totalitarian controlling society on the one hand and a free but "savage" and physically dangerous life on the other. Neither option is good, and the only books like this that end well are where the main character finds a third way. That didn't seem to happen here.
6) and finally, what did you think of the book, and do you feel like it earned it's place on the list?
I guess I didn't agree with what I thought I saw in this book in either spiritual or political terms. In spiritual terms, my experience is that meditation and mindfulness don't stop us feeling emotion, only stop us wallowing in negativity. We don't have to worry that this will cut us off from human experiences or feelings.
In political terms, I think something between complete subjugation and complete lawlessless/liberty is possible and most desirable, where people are protected by laws and communal provisions such as transport systems and hospitals, but not forced to conform by the administration of drugs or neurological controls.
It seems like I had a more negative response to this than most people, and maybe I was prejudiced. It didn't stop me enjoying the reading experience. At times I felt I had no clue what was happening, but nor did Mira...
I had not head of Nicola Barker before. Twice I inflicted a long list of post-modern novels I have read including The Autumn of the Patriarch, If on a winter's night a traveller (I loved that one), The Name of the Rose, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, Neuromancer, Nights at the Circus, The Handmaid's Tale, Red Sorghum, The Bonfire of the Vanities, Foucault's Pendulum, Beloved, Soul Mountain, American Psycho, The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, Infinite Jest, Sputnik Sweetheart, White Teeth, Pastoralia, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, House of Leaves, The Blind Assassin, Everything is Illuminated, Snow, Kafka On the Shore, The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime, 1Q84, A Visit from the Goon Squad, A Brief History of Seven Killings (I loved this one too), Lincoln in the Bardo (which I hated almost as much as Kavalier & Clay) - but twice half the post failed to post because we are in the middle of a violent storm! Most post-modern books I have read I have not enjoyed much.
1. I really can't see a link.2. The Graph is an instantaneous feedback of the emotional quotient of words spoken. The purpose was to monitor individual passion with the idea that all emotion should be dampened down. When Mira A doesn't get the instant feedback because The Graph isn't working she feels great anxiety. "The Youth" was the ideal society which was being created (by whom is unclear) where everyone is free from pain, heartbreak and death, but is also severely constrained by the expectations. Although the parallel with current algorithims is clear, I was so confused by the story that I didn't feel the impact of such constructs.
3. The magic realism of The Graph, The Youth, The Cathedral are post-modern devices, as is the insertion of the historical pieces about Paraguay. Then the use of unusual paragraphing, the use of coloured text and the insertion of symbols and blank pages were unique. They were intriguing and thought-provoking.4. I haven't listened, but I thought the author encouraging readers to listen to the music a great idea. I am not into music enough to know whether all the musical references contributed or not - not, clearly, for me.
5. Neither option is desirable. I didn't understand the end at all. Were the tentacles of nature reclaiming the Cathedral an allegory for religious faith trapping the human mind?
6. I really didn't enjoy this book at all. I read it on a Kindle app - fortunately not on my Kindle, or I would have missed the colour. My Kindle was flat when I started, which was lucky. I am sure that those who had a paper copy got more enjoyment from the page layout, but I find it difficult to appreciate most post-modern fiction, so my attitude is predictable. Now to something with plot development - Parade's End will be much more enjoyable, I think!
1. I didn't really get Alice vibes either. I did get 1984 vibes and liked how as well as surveillance from on high via The Graph it also showed surveillance from friends and acquaintances and the wider community.2. I don't even own a smartphone so I already feel like an oddball in our society. This book felt like a commentary on people who cannot feel happy without constant validation; with friends and likes and perfection; and rarely venturing far from the pack. And age is something to be frightened of... and sex... I am intrigued by how someone from Gen Z would feel reading this...
3. I loved the colours reflecting The Graph picking up on her moods. This book was so creative.
4. I think it is noticeable that the music used was far in the past because for the past twenty years or so music has largely been bankrupt of true creativity. (Unpopular opinion?) The more you identify with a herd and other people, the less impulse there is to be creative; boundary-pressing becomes less possible. But I am not a musician and had to look up some of the words used. But the idea of wanting to create music seems opposite to what The Graph identifies as being useful and good for you.
5. Is happiness even possible? There is no such thing as a Utopian society in this book.
6. I expected to dislike this book and was pleasantly surprised. I think it deserves its place.
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