Open Discussion is....?

[David]

Want to talk about movies and tv, how they relate to faith or what you enjoy? Have a question about God or other issues? Pretty much anything that will not end up being a "debate" about religion can go here.

[Rod]

Good idea David - I do enjoy things that brush up against religion: like violent action movies and comedy.

And Dogs...

[John]

It would be nice to be able to have an open discussion. There are a few people hereon who "hijack" discussions for their personal point of view. As an ordained minister, I actually envy their certainty; I wrestle with issues as did Jacob with the angel. It does, however, make discussion almost impossible.

[Peter]

Hello David,

I have a question, but I'm not sure if it belongs in this thread (let me know if it doesn't).

I'm reading Werner Gitt's book, In the Beginning was Information. On page 27 Gitt talks about the debate between David Hilbert (of Hilbert's Space fame) and Kurt Goedel. Gitt state that Hilbert "held the optimistic view that every mathematical problem could be resolved in the sense a solution could be found, or that it could be proved that a solution was impossible." Goedel on the other hand, "showed that, even in a formal system, not all true theorems could be proved. This statement, called the first incompleteness theorem of Goedel, was quite a revolutionary result."

I have two questions:

(1) Am I understanding this correctly, that even in a thoroughly controlled system like mathematics, there are statements that are true, but cannot be proved?
(2) Doesn't that mean that faith or trust has to be a component in any system, since everything else will be less controlled than mathematics and there will also be truths than cannot be rigorously proved?

[Robert]

Peter - I'm behind Goedel and have experienced it with quantitative genetics on heretibility issues. Unless a trait is on the sex chromosome of the parentals, it cannot be transmitted to the next generation. But these chromosomes are highly unstable with much regression from one generation to the next lending mathematical predictability near impossible. Quite frankly, given the complexity of the problem, I doubt if the solution will soon be found, nor will a solution be termed impossible.
So:
To 1. Yes
To 2. Yes

[Peter]

Robert wrote: "Peter - I'm behind Goedel and have experienced it with quantitative genetics on heretibility issues. Unless a trait is on the sex chromosome of the parentals, it cannot be transmitted to the next g..."

Thanks Robert.

[David]

Sorry Peter, I don't think I explained this well. This thread was meant to be an explanation for the category "Open Discussion". This is the place to discuss things that don't fit into debates or other places. But you need to start a new thread.

[David]

In other words, if you want to ask a question but not debate (like the thread on Anabaptist theology of Eucharist) or if you want to discuss a movie you saw (like the thread on the Exodus movie) or when you decide to leave the group because people are hateful/mean...this is where those threads go.

[Robert]

What if you decide to leave the group because people are wimpy/wishy-washy ?

[Peter]

David wrote: "Sorry Peter, I don't think I explained this well. This thread was meant to be an explanation for the category "Open Discussion". This is the place to discuss things that don't fit into debates or..."

Thanks David, I hear you saying I need to start a new thread with my question.

[David]

Robert you can post that announcement here too.

[Robert]

No, David, I'd rather stay and help them find their backbone.