Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin - Jan 2023 Adult / Non-Fiction BOM (starts 2 Jan)

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

In this exhilarating novel by the best-selling author of The Storied Life of A. J. Fikry two friends--often in love, but never lovers--come together as creative partners in the world of video game design, where success brings them fame, joy, tragedy, duplicity, and, ultimately, a kind of immortality.

On a bitter-cold day, in the December of his junior year at Harvard, Sam Masur exits a subway car and sees, amid the hordes of people waiting on the platform, Sadie Green. He calls her name. For a moment, she pretends she hasn't heard him, but then, she turns, and a game begins: a legendary collaboration that will launch them to stardom. These friends, intimates since childhood, borrow money, beg favors, and, before even graduating college, they have created their first blockbuster, Ichigo. Overnight, the world is theirs. Not even twenty-five years old, Sam and Sadie are brilliant, successful, and rich, but these qualities won't protect them from their own creative ambitions or the betrayals of their hearts.

Spanning thirty years, from Cambridge, Massachusetts, to Venice Beach, California, and lands in between and far beyond, Gabrielle Zevin's Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow is a dazzling and intricately imagined novel that examines the multifarious nature of identity, disability, failure, the redemptive possibilities in play, and above all, our need to connect: to be loved and to love. Yes, it is a love story, but it is not one you have read before.

Nominated by Jenny

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

Chapter Breakdown

Date	MPDQ	Chapters 						Pages
2 Jan	Jenny	I: Sick Kids						1 - 60
3 Jan	Judith	II: Influences						61 - 124
4 Jan	Cat	III: Unfair Games - V: Pivots				125 - 248
5 Jan	Percy	VI: Marriages - VII: The NPC				249 - 304
6 Jan	Angie	VIII: Our Infinite Days - X: Freights and Grooves	305 - end

Guidance for DQ setters
Aim for a reasonable number of questions: 4 - 5 is typical. Please don't post too many - any more than 7 gets unwieldy!
Use consecutive numbering of the DQs for your days. So, for example, if Day One is posted as questions 1-4, Day Two should start at number 5 etc.
Don't worry too much about your questions: you aren't being tested on how clever your questions are!
Hints and tips:
- Is there a quote that jumped out at you? Use that in a question.
- What about the characters - do they generate strong feelings? No feelings? - either way, we can explore that!
- What about that plot twist?!
- Explore the writing style: is there an unusual structure being used? what's the tone of voice like? or the point of view?

Want more information about how NBRC runs their Book of the Month discussions? Check out the information here

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

Volunteers

Jenny (nominator)
Judith
Cat

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

BOM Participation Confirmed

Jenny
Percy
Judith
Angie
Cat
Tina

[Jenny]

Yay! In for DQs.

[Judith]

I’m in!

[Cat]

I'm here for it too. :)

cos of Christmas shenanigans, I might get the split up early, with some gaps for latecomers to the party that we can back fill if needed )

[Jenny]

Cat, I have a physical copy of the book if you need chapter breakdowns or anything.

[Cat]

Jenny wrote: "Cat, I have a physical copy of the book if you need chapter breakdowns or anything."

Thanks for the offer :) I've a kindle version, so should be OK, but we can use your copy to add page numbers too :)

[Jenny]

Otay.

[Angie ☯]

I was (finally) able to get my hands on a copy! It's has 25-50 holds at my library between ebook / physical book / audio!

[Jenny]

pages-
Sick kids 1- 60
Influences 61- 124
Unfair games 125- 248
Marriages 249- 304
Our infinite days 305- end

[Cat]

Jenny wrote: "pages-
Sick kids 1- 60
Influences 61- 124
Unfair games 125- 248
Marriages 249- 304
Our infinite days 305- end"

Ta x

[Robin]

Hello y'all! I would love to participate — do you still need volunteers for writing DQs?

This is my first time reading along for a BOM... I'm looking forward to it! :)

[Cat]

Percy wrote: "Hello y'all! I would love to participate — do you still need volunteers for writing DQs?

This is my first time reading along for a BOM... I'm looking forward to it! :)"

If you are hapy to write some questions, yes, it woud be super helpful! :)

4th set work for you?

[Robin]

Cat wrote: "Percy wrote: "Hello y'all! I would love to participate — do you still need volunteers for writing DQs?

This is my first time reading along for a BOM... I'm looking forward to it! :)"

If you are ..."

Yes, sounds perfect! :) Thank you!

[Angie ☯]

I can do DQs also if needed.

[Cat]

Angie ☯ wrote: "I can do DQs also if needed."

Awesome, thanks Angie! :)

[Jenny]

Posting this a bit early.

DQs Day 1

1.) I love stereograms!!! Not a question, just saying. Are any of you gamers? How did you start?

2.) What are your first impressions of Sam and Sadie? Do you think Sadie should have told Sam about the community service? Have you ever fallen out with a friend for something that should have been said?

3.) Have any of you had a job or career or area of study where the male to female ratio is skewed towards one or the other? How was it working in that situation?

4.) What do you think of Solution as a concept? If you were to design a game for Dov’s class, what do you think it would be?

5.) Who wishes their college roommates were like Marx?
We don’t know Sadie very well yet, but do you think it was Dov leaving that sent her into a depression?

[Cat]

DQs Day 1

1.) I love stereograms!!! Not a question, just saying. Are any of you gamers? How did you start?

I am not good at stereograms :(. But I do have a funny story, courtesy of my cousin. When he was young he had a book of them, making famous artworks into stereograms, and lent it to his neighbour, who finally returned it with the double page showing a Venus picture (boobies! Tee hee) stuck together.... The neighbour claimed it was jam, but my cousin wasn't convinced....

I'm not a gamer, I'm a reader!

2.) What are your first impressions of Sam and Sadie? Do you think Sadie should have told Sam about the community service? Have you ever fallen out with a friend for something that should have been said?

I like them both. I get why Sadie didn't tell, but think that she should have.

3.) Have any of you had a job or career or area of study where the male to female ratio is skewed towards one or the other? How was it working in that situation?

I was like Sadie at uni - one of a tiny handful of girls in the class, which was a bit weird. I'm in the public sector, which tends to be slightly more women, but that doesn't always track to senior leadership being more women.

4.) What do you think of Solution as a concept? If you were to design a game for Dov’s class, what do you think it would be?

Solution sounds interesting but bleak as a bleak bleak thing. I'm not sure I've the creativity to come up with a good game!

5.) Who wishes their college roommates were like Marx?
We don’t know Sadie very well yet, but do you think it was Dov leaving that sent her into a depression?

Marx is great! I did wonder about the purchase of the winter coat, and whether it had been genuinely forgotten,or if he had been sneaky in getting Sam better clothing, so it was super nice when he was revealed to be generous that way.
Was it the end of her relationship or that she suddenly realised how much of herself she had changed to suit him? Either way, definitely Dov related depression

[Judith]

DQs Day 1

1.) I love stereograms!!! Not a question, just saying. Are any of you gamers? How did you start?
Not really a gamer. Though I did play Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 on the PC. But they were my brother's that I borrowed and played when he was done when I was in college.

And most of the games now seem to be first person POV which I can't play for long, I they give me headaches. And I'm sure you find this shocking, but like Cat, I'd generally rather be reading.

2.) What are your first impressions of Sam and Sadie? Do you think Sadie should have told Sam about the community service? Have you ever fallen out with a friend for something that should have been said?
I do, but I get why she didn't. A secret like that is harder to explain the longer it's kept. And if she'd told him early on he likely would of shut down.
I had a person in our close friend group get really mad at me and hold a grudge for something silly that happened when we were all drunk. I didn't even do anything, but she picked me to be mad at. I decided I didn't need that level of drama in my life and just ignored her for like 5 years until we started seeing each other at weddings and such.
But the Sam/Sadie situation is a bit different.

3.) Have any of you had a job or career or area of study where the male to female ratio is skewed towards one or the other? How was it working in that situation?
Oh my yes. My field is economics and while I work with a generally high percentage of women (and even women in upper management is fairly high), in school especially this was not the case. Nor was it when I was in consulting versus public service.
You just have to know your stuff and figure out how to professionally stand up for yourself. But it's not always easy and it can be exhausting.

4.) What do you think of Solution as a concept? If you were to design a game for Dov’s class, what do you think it would be?
I found it really interesting but a depressing game to play and not the escapism most I think look for in games. I'm not sure. probably some sort of puzzle solving game.

5.) Who wishes their college roommates were like Marx?
We don’t know Sadie very well yet, but do you think it was Dov leaving that sent her into a depression?
Marx definitely getting all the gold stars, hopefully it stays that way! Everyone needs a Marx looking out for them.
I'm assuming it was related to that and what she was giving up to be with him in a very not-in-her-favor power skewed relationship. When she wasn't feeling well in CA, I was afraid she was going to be preggers but it doesn't look like that was the case thank goodness.

[Angie ☯]

DQs Day 1

1.) I love stereograms!!! Not a question, just saying. Are any of you gamers? How did you start?
I love stereograms, as well! But, I am not a gamer - I so suck at it! I've tried to play with my nieces/nephews....they love to laugh at my attempts to move around in games. They like to play Among Us and laugh hysterically when I get stuck against a wall and can't move. Just for the record, I'm not any better with any platform or controller!

2.) What are your first impressions of Sam and Sadie? Do you think Sadie should have told Sam about the community service? Have you ever fallen out with a friend for something that should have been said?
I like both of them. I think that when her grandmother pointed out how it looked that Sadie should have stopped and told Sam then. It still may have caused a little bit of a tiff, but nothing like being told by someone else. I don't think I have had a falling out, but I'm sure that I've probably kept something to myself that I should have told.

3.) Have any of you had a job or career or area of study where the male to female ratio is skewed towards one or the other? How was it working in that situation?
Accounting careers seem to be skewed toward women. Moreso when I first started than now, though. I've never had any problem with it. I think it's easier to work with men, because women can get bent out of shape over the strangest things! Lol

4.) What do you think of Solution as a concept? If you were to design a game for Dov’s class, what do you think it would be?
I thought it was an interesting concept, but a bit depressing also. I'd never be in Dov's class and don't think I could design a game!

5.) Who wishes their college roommates were like Marx?
We don’t know Sadie very well yet, but do you think it was Dov leaving that sent her into a depression?
Marx is great and I agree everyone needs a Marx looking out for them! Absolutely think it was the situation with Dov that sent Sadie into a tailspin - but not sure whether it was just the break up or if it was everything about it that she realized when looking back at the time.

[Judith]

DQs Day 2

6.) The section opens with a failed attempt to see The Glass Flowers. Had you heard of these before? Do you want to go see them now? What did you think of Sadie's story and of Sam wanting to publicize a different narrative?

7.) "There is a time for any fledgling artist where one's taste exceeds one's abilities. The only way to get through it is to make things any way." Do you agree with this quote? Do you think it applies outside of the art/design world?

8.) I thought the appropriation discussion was interesting. What did you think about what was said in the interview and accusations about the game appropriating Japanese culture?

9.) Dov, thoughts about this guy? How long do you think he'll stick around in the story? FYI in my head he's Dov the Douche.

10.) How do you like the structure of the story with random jumping through time and interviews mixed in? Is it effective?

[Cat]

DQs Day 2

6.) The section opens with a failed attempt to see The Glass Flowers. Had you heard of these before? Do you want to go see them now? What did you think of Sadie's story and of Sam wanting to publicize a different narrative?

The glass flowers and fruit sound amazing! I've never heard of them, but if I were ever in that neck of the woods I'd check them out.
I get why Sam, who has had to struggle against imperfections and difficulties would want to present an idealised version of his (re)origin story; and also why Sadie, who has (bar Dov the Douche (TM)) had a charmed life, wouldn't see the need to present it the best way possible.

7.) "There is a time for any fledgling artist where one's taste exceeds one's abilities. The only way to get through it is to make things any way." Do you agree with this quote? Do you think it applies outside of the art/design world?

I think so. Perfectionism and expecting perfection from the get go, is insidious and paralysing. Failing is the way we improve!

8.) I thought the appropriation discussion was interesting. What did you think about what was said in the interview and accusations about the game appropriating Japanese culture?

I agree that this was really interesting. I think I broadly side with Sam's viewpoint: sticking to your own culture will lead to homogeneity and different sorts of echo chamber / bubbles of the type that occur in discourse about social issues. If it's respectfully done, its not the worst issue, surely? And of course a lot of the inspiration for design ideas was also coming from Marx, who is part Japanese.

9.) Dov, thoughts about this guy? How long do you think he'll stick around in the story? FYI in my head he's Dov the Douche.

He's the Douche in my head too! I'd be happy to be rid of him ASAP but I suspect he's going to stick around to be grit in the Sam/Sadie friendship (not that I want them to be romantic partners, mind!)

10.) How do you like the structure of the story with random jumping through time and interviews mixed in? Is it effective?

I like the jumps and other angles from the interviews - it's being done well to give roundedness to the characters history and motivations without too much annoying foreshadowing or heavyhandedness. VERY readable book!

[Jenny]

DQs Day 2

6.) The section opens with a failed attempt to see The Glass Flowers. Had you heard of these before? Do you want to go see them now? What did you think of Sadie's story and of Sam wanting to publicize a different narrative?
I definitely want to see the glass flower now. I have a vague memory of an exhibit like this being touted years ago, but I never saw it.
People have differing memories of the same events, so I don't have a problem with the narratives being off. I agree with Cat's answer about their view on life.

7.) "There is a time for any fledgling artist where one's taste exceeds one's abilities. The only way to get through it is to make things any way." Do you agree with this quote? Do you think it applies outside of the art/design world?
I think it applies to any creative field. One learns how to paint by trying to copy someone else's painting. My guess is that a lot of first writing efforts are pure plagiarism. I learned how to draw by trying to see if I could copy things I loved, and then took art classes later.
When I first took up the violin, and learned enough finger work to not be a total embarrassment, I figured out how to play the theme from Masterpiece Theatre, and the violin parts from some Kansas songs.

8.) I thought the appropriation discussion was interesting. What did you think about what was said in the interview and accusations about the game appropriating Japanese culture?
I LOVED this bit. I have a real issue with people getting het up if someone wants to wear a Halloween costume that is not a direct representation of their own race. And, I totally agree with Sam's response regarding what a horrible world it would be if we didn't learn about and borrow from cultures that are not our own.
I think the whole cultural appropriation conversation needs to go away. Unless you are taking credit for inventing jazz, and you are a white guy from Sweden, then it is probably not going to end the world if you write some jazz tunes.

9.) Dov, thoughts about this guy? How long do you think he'll stick around in the story? FYI in my head he's Dov the Douche.
Pretty sure the correct title for this guy is "fuckwad". I hope he is thrown out of the narrative in a spectacular way, but I am guessing he will be around for the duration.

10.) How do you like the structure of the story with random jumping through time and interviews mixed in? Is it effective?
I am loving this story so far. I do like the glimpses of the future, and it is not spoiler-y.

[Robin]

Catching up with day 1 questions!

DQs Day 1

1.) I love stereograms!!! Not a question, just saying. Are any of you gamers? How did you start?
I'm a huge gamer! I started out when I was little, playing games on our family's Nintendo GameCube (Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, and Luigi's Mansion were my two favorites to play with my dad). I was also a huge fan of puzzle and mystery games, particularly the point-and-click Nancy Drew PC games. I started gaming again in college, and gained some amazing friends playing online and connecting with fellow gamers locally. I'm also currently a DM for a Dungeons & Dragons group of fellow graduate students, so I was thrilled to D&D this mentioned in the book!

2.) What are your first impressions of Sam and Sadie? Do you think Sadie should have told Sam about the community service? Have you ever fallen out with a friend for something that should have been said?
I really like both characters very much, especially Sadie. I absolutely think Sadie should have mentioned the community service to Sam (ideally, she would have stopped logging her hours after she had meet the minimum requirement for her community service), but I understand why she didn't, and I think she learned a very valuable lesson - one that we all probably learned, in one way or another, at that age.

3.) Have any of you had a job or career or area of study where the male to female ratio is skewed towards one or the other? How was it working in that situation?
YES -- I really wanted to be a video game writer for a while, so I spent half of my college career (before switching to just plain ole english/creative writing) in the computer science and game development programs... It was massively uncomfortable at many points, being one of only a few women in a room dominated by men. I even wrote my bachelor's essay on representations of women and women's bodies in a particularly violent subgenre of games, focusing on a few franchises which capitalize on the dismemberment of sexualized female bodies (Hitman, Grand Theft Auto, and a handful of "hack n' slash" games), which caused a considerable amount of backlash in those departments. It gave me hope, though, that many of my classmates were aware of and beginning to actively fighting against sexism in the gaming industry. And unlike Sadie I was able to make lasting friends with the women in both departments, which was a saving grace for sure!!

4.) What do you think of Solution as a concept? If you were to design a game for Dov’s class, what do you think it would be?
So cool, I love this idea -- reminds me a little bit of Papers, Please. I've always been a fan of games in which your choices as a player "matter" and impact the game world, and here we see Sadie beginning to explore these ideas and force her players to consider deeper morality questions one might not expect to encounter while playing a video game. And gosh I have nooo idea what kind of game I would design for Dov... Probably a game that combined all of the things he hated and made them utterly huge and ridiculous. Maybe even go 'meta' with it and make a game about a struggling student game designer trying to satisfy the impossible standards of her professor. I'm sure he'd hate it lol.

5.) Who wishes their college roommates were like Marx? We don’t know Sadie very well yet, but do you think it was Dov leaving that sent her into a depression?
Marx is a good guy for sure, but I'm a little wary at the moment... Is he overstepping a little too far? I'm not sure I love the way that he talks about Sam to his grandparents ("our boy" ?)... It feels a little infantilizing. I love that Marx is trying to make Sam's life "easier" for him, but I think having an open conversation about how he can help Sam if Sam NEEDS help in the first place is the better way to go. Re: Sadie's depression, I'm not so sure it's Dov leaving her that is sending her into a depressive spiral... Instead, I think we've seen a little of Sadie's disappointment at opportunities she missed because of her involvement with Dov (the internship with the game studio where she didn't stand out or make an impression, the fact that she hasn't really worked on ANY games of her own and has instead been lending her creative and intellectual energies to DOV's projects). I think if anything Sadie might be feeling like she has wasted time, or sold herself short, by being with Dov... Not necessarily because Dov has broken her heart (though I think he's done that, too).

[Angie ☯]

DQs Day 2

6.) The section opens with a failed attempt to see The Glass Flowers. Had you heard of these before? Do you want to go see them now? What did you think of Sadie's story and of Sam wanting to publicize a different narrative?
I hadn't heard of them and yep, I want to see them now too! I agree with Cat on this one. I understand why they have different views based on their experiences.

7.) "There is a time for any fledgling artist where one's taste exceeds one's abilities. The only way to get through it is to make things any way." Do you agree with this quote? Do you think it applies outside of the art/design world?
I do agree with it. Everyone (except maybe prodigies) have to learn from their mistakes and that is what makes them better. If they didn't try at all, that would be the tragedy. I think it apples to everything, not just the arts.

8.) I thought the appropriation discussion was interesting. What did you think about what was said in the interview and accusations about the game appropriating Japanese culture?
This was very interesting to me and I agree with Sam's view. I suppose the differences in opinion could be from their upbringing. But, I think all cultures have borrowed from others all though the ages and don't understand why now is deemed inappropriate.

9.) Dov, thoughts about this guy? How long do you think he'll stick around in the story? FYI in my head he's Dov the Douche.
I am a bit harsher with his description in my head! Lol! I didn't want him to come back at all and I hate that Sadie took up with him almost immediately; she didn't learn from that mistake, He will probably be around for the whole story, unfortunately!

10.) How do you like the structure of the story with random jumping through time and interviews mixed in? Is it effective?
I think it works and that is probably because it is written well. It's not distracting to me at all; it actually provides some good background/insight. Even as a non-gamer, I like the story.

[Robin]

DQs Day 2

6.) The section opens with a failed attempt to see The Glass Flowers. Had you heard of these before? Do you want to go see them now? What did you think of Sadie's story and of Sam wanting to publicize a different narrative?
I'd never heard of the Glass Flowers before, but now I really want to go see them! I thought that moment was very revealing for both characters... and foreshadows what we hear of the disputed origin of "Unfair Games," about how Sam's stories are always a little mythic and "reverse engineered."

7.) "There is a time for any fledgling artist where one's taste exceeds one's abilities. The only way to get through it is to make things any way." Do you agree with this quote? Do you think it applies outside of the art/design world?
I've heard this before described as "the gap" - and yes, for the most part I agree with it. However I think it's equally as important to make "bad" art as it is to develop one's artistic skills. Art doesn't have to be good to be enjoyable or worthwhile or valuable. Sometimes the creation itself is what is healing!

8.) I thought the appropriation discussion was interesting. What did you think about what was said in the interview and accusations about the game appropriating Japanese culture?
I've always been so interested in the ways that we reflect upon the past and our changing values and understandings - what was "allowed" or encouraged in the 90s, of course, is critiqued and pushed back against today (and mostly for good reason). With art, though, it becomes particularly interesting and especially fraught, sometimes, to apply our current-day values backward... Sam's passionate defense of Ichigo was definitely a striking moment.

9.) Dov, thoughts about this guy? How long do you think he'll stick around in the story? FYI in my head he's Dov the Douche.
UGHHHH Dov the Douche is right. Now he's Dov the Douche DOM?! Nothing worse than a narcissist who hides behind a bastardized and non-consensual "BDSM" in order to be an abuser. Ick. Ickkk. I think he's here to stay and I'm expecting it to get a lot worse. Sadie, RUN!!!

10.) How do you like the structure of the story with random jumping through time and interviews mixed in? Is it effective?
I love it for the most part. A few of the flashbacks with Sam's mom felt a little abrupt pacing-wise, but on the whole I'm really enjoying it, and I've enjoyed authors who employ a similar kind of "collage" storytelling technique to great effect (Emily St. John Mandel is a recent-read author who comes to mind).

[Cat]

DQs Day 3: Unfair Games / Both Sides / Pivot

11. Dov the D-bag is gone! But with one final spanner in the works that gumms up Sam & Sadie's relationship. What do you think about the different conflicts and how they are resolved? (thinking of the choice to go with Opus, and the design and creative compromises that leads to; the revelation that Sadie has about Sam's manipulation of her relationship with Dov to get his engine; the creative process around the development of Both Sides)

12. The section "Both Sides" has a different chapter structure. Did you notice the change before reading any of the chapters or not? How did when you notice it affect your reading and understanding of Sadie & Sam's relationship? Did you think it was better than the way the rest of the book has been presenting the different views?

13. We end this section with Sam and Sadie still far from understanding each other, and a new emotional link being forged between Sadie Marx, with Sam (who I was reading as ace-spectrum) seeming to want a physical relationship with Sadie. Do these changing relationships ring true for you?

14. There is a lot in this section about Sam trying to come to terms with his amputation. Did the inclusion of some of the graphic pain and issues he was going through work for you? Do you understand Sam better?

15. Entirely optional: When I was looking up a video to link on the home page a got a whole flock of Shakespearean actors reading the Macbeth soliloquy (under the spoiler below). Why do you think Zevin chose that phrase to be used as the title for the book? Does it suggest a trajectory for the story? Incidentally, one of the vids was for a young (and sexy!) Sir Ian McKellen doing a masterclass analysis of the soliloquy, that is worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGbZC...
(view spoiler)[Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

1. I love stereograms!!! Not a question, just saying. Are any of you gamers? How did you start?
I’ve been a gamer for most of my life, and recognise a lot of the references in the book which I’m finding quite comforting when starting to read something new. I started back in the early 90s on an Amiga and Amstrad which my bought Dad me. I started with role-playing games, point-and-click and text-based adventure games before moving onto consoles and playing things like Sonic the Hedgehog and Mario. It’s amazing to see how far games have come since I started playing them!

2. What are your first impressions of Sam and Sadie? Do you think Sadie should have told Sam about the community service? Have you ever fallen out with a friend for something that should have been said?
I’m really warming to both characters and I’m enjoying that the author is introducing their personalities in doses and you’re getting to know them slowly, I think that’s a great way to really understand the characters. They both seem like they truly care for each other and will continue to influence and provide support for each other for a long time. I’m fortunate enough that I have remained friends with a lot of the people from my childhood and haven’t really ever had a “big” falling out with anyone. There have certainly been people that have come and gone from my life, but I’m a big believer in that you don’t meet people by accident and everything happens for a reason to make you grow.

3. Have any of you had a job or career or area of study where the male-to-female ratio is skewed towards one or the other? How was it working in that situation?
I’ve worked in several industries which were very heavily male over female, some of which actually believe females are bad omens. I had quite a prominent position within a specific team and it was extremely difficult to gain the respect of people in the company, not only because of my gender but also my age. I’ve found the best way to overcome situations like that is to ensure that you provide consistency in your professionalism. Prove that you’re just as good, if not better than the leading male in the company. I’m a big believer in equal opportunities in life, and the workplace, but I also believe that some ages/genders are better suited for some professions.

4. What do you think of Solution as a concept? If you were to design a game for Dov’s class, what do you think it would be?
I think “solution” sounds like a really interesting idea, but I agree with Sam that there is a further direction that it should be taken as the design that Sadie has come up with is very limited at this stage. At this point, I believe that once you know the main concept, you wouldn’t really replay once you’ve completed the three options. Games don’t need to be overly complex in their design or plot, but they need to be replayable to be successful. Dov sounds like an incredibly difficult person to appease, but also that he seems to be trying to get the best out of his students in terms of creativity. However, I do believe that he oversteps the mark sometimes - art is subjective and he is treating what I understand to be a programming and game design class as something more than it is.

5.) Who wishes their college roommates were like Marx? We don’t know Sadie very well yet, but do you think it was Dov leaving that sent her into a depression?
I think Marx seems like a very decent and compassionate person. I particularly liked the statement that was made that being kind to Sam cost him very little and the only payment he received in return was his company. The relationship between them doesn’t seem one-sided and it’s not as though one is taking advantage of the other or the situation. In relation to Sadie’s depressive state, I believe this will be more than the breakup with Dov. There may be some realisation or regret at this point in the history between her and Sam and her once again feeling guilty for the reasons they stopped speaking before.

[[deleted user]]

6. The section opens with a failed attempt to see The Glass Flowers. Had you heard of these before? Do you want to go see them now? What did you think of Sadie's story and of Sam wanting to publicize a different narrative?
I hadn’t heard of ‘The Glass Flowers’ before but I particularly enjoyed the quote from the character who didn’t believe they were glass. It definitely makes me quite interested in seeing them as I enjoy art as much as I enjoy reading.

7. "There is a time for any fledgling artist where one's taste exceeds one's abilities. The only way to get through it is to make things anyway." Do you agree with this quote? Do you think it applies outside of the art/design world?
I think this is a really interesting quote, but I’m not sure I entirely agree with it as essentially you are going to end up designing/creating something that you’re unhappy with. If you are a perfectionist, this will never work and you’ll never be satisfied with the ‘finished’ product.

8. I thought the appropriation discussion was interesting. What did you think about what was said in the interview and accusations about the game appropriating Japanese culture?
It’s an interesting concept that the author has touched upon and I think appropriation is a very relevant and controversial topic at the moment. Appropriating as a definition is to take something for one's own use without the owners' permission, so when you are talking about designing and lending ideas to an entire culture it can be very difficult to prove that you’re ‘worthy’ of this. Sam and Sadies are both from mixed-cultural backgrounds so may seem to have a ‘right’ to tap into these cultures, but I believe there’s a lot to be said about people trying to honour different cultures and draw positive attention to them.

9. Dov, thoughts about this guy? How long do you think he'll stick around in the story? FYI in my head he's Dov the Douche.
I would say he’s my least favourite character, and doesn’t have much of a background or storyline to take interest in. I feel at this point (and I’d be happy to be proven wrong) he’s written in as filler and will be there to act as a distraction and/or negative influence on Sadie. He’s currently talking about a ‘costly divorce’ so it wouldn’t surprise me too much if he sold his rights to the game to be easily written out of the main storyline.

10. How do you like the structure of the story with random jumping through time and interviews mixed in? Is it effective?
I’m not particularly fond of this technique as it almost shows ‘spoilers’ to the future of the story and the success of the game. Jumping to the past is effective enough as it gives you an opportunity to understand the main storyline without reading the finer details of backgrounds (i.e. why Sam/Anna Lee moved to LA from NY). I appreciate there will still be details of the characters' relationships omitted from this ‘future’ segments and the game itself isn’t intended to be the main focal point of the story, but I just find it mildly distracting at this point.

[Jenny]

If you guys haven't googles the Glass Flowers exhibit yet, do it. Holy crap, they do look like real flowers.

[Robin]

DQs Day 3

11. Dov the D-bag is gone! But with one final spanner in the works that gumms up Sam & Sadie's relationship. What do you think about the different conflicts and how they are resolved? (thinking of the choice to go with Opus, and the design and creative compromises that leads to; the revelation that Sadie has about Sam's manipulation of her relationship with Dov to get his engine; the creative process around the development of Both Sides)
Oof, these conflicts are so hard... Sadie clearly feels used and manipulated, and rightfully so, but there is so much about Sam's motivations that we as readers understand but Sadie doesn't understand because Sam insists on hiding his pain and his deeper emotions! I personally think the decision to go with Opus was the wrong one (I would have definitely gone with Cellar Door), and in hindsight this would have been the perfect moment for them to amiably part ways as collaborators. Sadie could have done artsy, indie titles with Cellar Door and Sam, with his skills for marketing games with massive appeal, could have had success on his own with Opus.

12. The section "Both Sides" has a different chapter structure. Did you notice the change before reading any of the chapters or not? How did when you notice it affect your reading and understanding of Sadie & Sam's relationship? Did you think it was better than the way the rest of the book has been presenting the different views?
Honestly, I noticed but I'm not really sure I understand what's happening with the numbering system. Does anyone else get it? I think maybe I wasn't reading closely enough to think through what the letters and numbers were supposed to mean here...

13. We end this section with Sam and Sadie still far from understanding each other, and a new emotional link being forged between Sadie Marx, with Sam (who I was reading as ace-spectrum) seeming to want a physical relationship with Sadie. Do these changing relationships ring true for you?
I think these shifts make sense ... Marx and Sadie sort of felt inevitable. I feel for Sam, though, and I'm anxious about what is going to happen next! Will there be some kind of altercation?!

14. There is a lot in this section about Sam trying to come to terms with his amputation. Did the inclusion of some of the graphic pain and issues he was going through work for you? Do you understand Sam better?
Yes, they definitely worked for me... And yes, I think I do understand Sam better (but I do think he's been a major asshole, and his decisions are quite selfish...)

[Robin]

DQs Day 4
(VI: Marriages - VII: The NPC, p. 249-304)

16. The "Marriages" section opens with a description of Sam's avatar, Mayor Mazer, and its popularity/mass appeal. We've seen many moments of characters compared to video game characters (Sam compared, perhaps erroneously, to Ichigo) or crafting their own avatars (Marx creating his avatar for the D&D-like game he plays in the hotel in Tokyo). What do you think the author is asking us to consider when drawing these connections? Is Mayor Mazer simply another one of Sam's "masks," as Sadie describes them, or is there something deeper being explored here?

17. Should Sadie and Marx have told Sam when they started seeing each other? How did you feel about Sam's reaction?

18. What did you think about the stylistic change to 2nd person POV when Marx falls into the coma? What did this shift do for you as a reader, and what did it illuminate about Marx's character?

19. I was initially suspicious of Marx, but he's become my favorite character besides Sadie... It's been a while since a book made me cry, but I sobbed at the end of this section. Are you as wrecked as I am?

20. (totally optional!) After finishing "The NPC" section, I returned to the opening paragraph. What do we think of this strange and otherworldly vignette (p. 283), and how does it compare to the section's poetic ending? Is the woman on the bike Zoe, and the horse being tamed Sadie? How did you interpret these images?

[Jenny]

DQs Day 3: Unfair Games / Both Sides / Pivot

11. Dov the D-bag is gone! But with one final spanner in the works that gumms up Sam & Sadie's relationship. What do you think about the different conflicts and how they are resolved? (thinking of the choice to go with Opus, and the design and creative compromises that leads to; the revelation that Sadie has about Sam's manipulation of her relationship with Dov to get his engine; the creative process around the development of Both Sides)
I think that Sam wouldn't have sent Sadie to get Dov's engine if he had any idea what she had gone through with him. They are not deep sharers with each other.
I was a bit peeved that they went with Opus, as Sadie was treated as a second class citizen there, and that makes me mad. But, I understand the money thing. So, there was no perfect solution. I think Sadie may have capitulated too easily, and then resented being put in that position.

12. The section "Both Sides" has a different chapter structure. Did you notice the change before reading any of the chapters or not? How did when you notice it affect your reading and understanding of Sadie & Sam's relationship? Did you think it was better than the way the rest of the book has been presenting the different views?
I didn't really notice it. I am so absorbed in the story that the structure is falling by the wayside for me. Or, it is doing what it is supposed to do, and giving me different feels without my knowing I am am being manipulated.

13. We end this section with Sam and Sadie still far from understanding each other, and a new emotional link being forged between Sadie Marx, with Sam (who I was reading as ace-spectrum) seeming to want a physical relationship with Sadie. Do these changing relationships ring true for you?
The ecstasy fueled love fest seemed like it could happen, but I have never taken that drug, so I don't know.
I just want Sam and Sadie to sit down together and put all of their cards on the table. They seem to be great collaborators in the game making, but they are both so bad at relationships and read so many things into each other's actions, that they seem to not be able to see the forest for the trees.

14. There is a lot in this section about Sam trying to come to terms with his amputation. Did the inclusion of some of the graphic pain and issues he was going through work for you? Do you understand Sam better?
It did work for me. I haven't gone through anything like he has, but the descriptions seemed realistic.
I do really like how we are learning more and more about the characters over time.

[Robin]

Oops - I had to repost my DQs and I think because of that the link to my DQs in the chapter breakdown post is broken! :( Sorry about that.

My DQs are here: message 34

[Cat]

DQs Day 3: Unfair Games / Both Sides / Pivot

11. Dov the D-bag is gone! But with one final spanner in the works that gums up Sam & Sadie's relationship. What do you think about the different conflicts and how they are resolved? (thinking of the choice to go with Opus, and the design and creative compromises that leads to; the revelation that Sadie has about Sam's manipulation of her relationship with Dov to get his engine; the creative process around the development of Both Sides)

Actually, the work conflicts are dealt with fairly reasonably - there's give and take on each side. But the personal issues - why won't Sadie trust that she can be fully honest with Sam, and that the relationship is strong enough that he wont (and indeed can't) vanish on her like he did when they were young.
It is also frustrating that Sam can't be upfront about his pain and mobility issues. The pride he is maintaining in keeping up the front is responsible for as much of the difficulties as Sadie's reluctance to air an issue.

12. The section "Both Sides" has a different chapter structure. Did you notice the change before reading any of the chapters or not? How did when you notice it affect your reading and understanding of Sadie & Sam's relationship? Did you think it was better than the way the rest of the book has been presenting the different views?

I spotted it immediately, and suspected it would show the parallel, unconnected lives. I found it effective, but not necessarily better - we were getting the different views and mosaicing of information already. I guess the choice was to mirror the game mechanics, but I didn't find the A and B chapters differentiated in voice or tone, so it didn't really work as a mirror of the game

13. We end this section with Sam and Sadie still far from understanding each other, and a new emotional link being forged between Sadie Marx, with Sam (who I was reading as ace-spectrum) seeming to want a physical relationship with Sadie. Do these changing relationships ring true for you?

As you might guess, I'm not a fan of Sam being presented as wanting a sexual or romantic relationship with Sadie, as there hasn't been any of that before now, and why can't they just have a really good platonic relationship??!!

14. There is a lot in this section about Sam trying to come to terms with his amputation. Did the inclusion of some of the graphic pain and issues he was going through work for you? Do you understand Sam better?

I found the bits about Sam getting to grips with his mobility issues and pain really interesting. Not sure how accurate it is - I've heard of phantom limb, but not of the being-squished-by-prothesis thing before. I understand how the amputation and pain would impact his life, but I still don't see why he's so buttoned up about it, which I feel is driving a lot of the relationship issues.

15. Entirely optional: When I was looking up a video to link on the home page a got a whole flock of Shakespearean actors reading the Macbeth soliloquy (under the spoiler below). Why do you think Zevin chose that phrase to be used as the title for the book? Does it suggest a trajectory for the story?

I hope it's nothing more that she liked the phrase, because if it's not, there's some bleakness coming down the line ("signifying nothing"). The elements of being a stage, players etc obviously maps to the elements of gaming and creating identities. (sorry, a bit light on detailed analysis there. Possibly something I'll come back to at the end of the book)

[Cat]

DQs Day 4
(VI: Marriages - VII: The NPC, p. 249-304)

16. The "Marriages" section opens with a description of Sam's avatar, Mayor Mazer, and its popularity/mass appeal. We've seen many moments of characters compared to video game characters (Sam compared, perhaps erroneously, to Ichigo) or crafting their own avatars (Marx creating his avatar for the D&D-like game he plays in the hotel in Tokyo). What do you think the author is asking us to consider when drawing these connections? Is Mayor Mazer simply another one of Sam's "masks," as Sadie describes them, or is there something deeper being explored here?

I think there's definitely something about whether online personas are just masks or are a way of letting other elements of a personality come through (echoes of shadows versus the player in the Macbeth quote maybe?)
It seems like Sam is able to be open about his past when he can present it as a massaged story; maybe this development of the Samatar is a way him to try and expand on that in a non-confrontational way (like the way it's usually better to have difficult conversations when in motion - walking, driving or cooking together, rather than face to face), so that he can reach people more authentically? Interesting that we don't hear much about Sadie's avatar or alternative personas.

(don't think I've expressed my thoughts clearly here, sorry)

17. Should Sadie and Marx have told Sam when they started seeing each other? How did you feel about Sam's reaction?

Yes. Sadie knows that Sam doesn't do well with lies by omission (to be fair, who does?!) so why she'd fall into that error a second time I don't know. Sam's reaction - see my answer to Q12 - I'm not on team Samdie (or whatever) as a romantic or sexual thing. Is he just jealous of the closeness? Cos if it's that, he could fixed their relationship by having the difficult conversations.

18. What did you think about the stylistic change to 2nd person POV when Marx falls into the coma? What did this shift do for you as a reader, and what did it illuminate about Marx's character?

I liked this section. I think the POV shift was partly to try and make s buy into Marx as an NPC character ("see! the narrative style is different for Marx than it is for Sadie and Sam") and also to mess with our perceptions of him. 2nd person is weird that way - intimate yet not...

19. I was initially suspicious of Marx, but he's become my favorite character besides Sadie... It's been a while since a book made me cry, but I sobbed at the end of this section. Are you as wrecked as I am?

I can't believe she killed him off!!! I got very confused about some of the timeline here - I thought Sadie just discovered her pregnancy as the gunmen were doing there thing, but then there was reference to a spreadsheet about the pros and cons of having the baby ??
Anyway, you were not alone in being messed up by the loss of Marx :(

20. (totally optional!) After finishing "The NPC" section, I returned to the opening paragraph. What do we think of this strange and otherworldly vignette (p. 283), and how does it compare to the section's poetic ending? Is the woman on the bike Zoe, and the horse being tamed Sadie? How did you interpret these images?

Haven't reread.... My initial thoughts on reading it was that I hoped the horse being tamed was NOT Sadie! Marx didn't seem like he would consider taming anyone, let alone someone he loved so much.

[Cat]

Percy wrote: "Oops - I had to repost my DQs and I think because of that the link to my DQs in the chapter breakdown post is broken! :( Sorry about that.

My DQs are here: message 34"

Fixed, thanks!

[Judith]

DQs Day 3: Unfair Games / Both Sides / Pivot

11. Dov the D-bag is gone! But with one final spanner in the works that gumms up Sam & Sadie's relationship. What do you think about the different conflicts and how they are resolved? (thinking of the choice to go with Opus, and the design and creative compromises that leads to; the revelation that Sadie has about Sam's manipulation of her relationship with Dov to get his engine; the creative process around the development of Both Sides)
I agree with what someone else said, that their professional conflicts get dealt with fairly efficiently but their personal conflicts are a hot mess. And self created through being weird about communicating and being truthful with one another. Sam had no idea the situation was that bad with Dov, how could he? And she chose not to be truthful about was emotionally it was a bad idea for her to ever talk to Dov again.

12. The section "Both Sides" has a different chapter structure. Did you notice the change before reading any of the chapters or not? How did when you notice it affect your reading and understanding of Sadie & Sam's relationship? Did you think it was better than the way the rest of the book has been presenting the different views?
I saw it in the Chapters but I didn't notice it much when I was reading aside from it didn't seem to flow as well as some of the other sections.

13. We end this section with Sam and Sadie still far from understanding each other, and a new emotional link being forged between Sadie Marx, with Sam (who I was reading as ace-spectrum) seeming to want a physical relationship with Sadie. Do these changing relationships ring true for you?
I'm with Cat on this all the way. I never wanted anything romantical between Sam and Sadie, why do authors almost already try to make that a thing? Sometimes platonic love/friendship can be stronger than the romance and I'm not sure why authors always seem to go there with the romance. The Marx/Sadie smashing I saw coming from when they first met. I'm almost more surprised it took that long to happen.

14. There is a lot in this section about Sam trying to come to terms with his amputation. Did the inclusion of some of the graphic pain and issues he was going through work for you? Do you understand Sam better?
I did and I thought it was interesting to include. It's a situation that doesn't come up much in stories like this and goes towards Sam's self-isolation a bit. I wish he'd be more open about it with his friends. But I'm wondering if part of it is cultural or him not wanting special treatment or to be a burden to anyone.

[Angie ☯]

Ack! I forgot to post questions this morning!! So, sorry!!
And I wrote them yesterday afternoon, so I wouldn't be late. SMH

[Angie ☯]

DQs Day 5 ~ VIII: Our Infinite Days - X: Freights and Grooves

21.) Do you think that Sadie’s attitude toward Sam is realistic? How has it changed over time and especially after the loss of Marx?

22.) What do you think of the game Pioneers? What do you think were Sam’s reasons for creating it? Do you think that Sadie really was unaware of the similarities of her and Sam’s life to what was portrayed in Friendship? Even in Emily’s Will she admits that the game helped her (“When I came here I was as drained of hearts as I have ever been, and the tedium of Friendship and the kindness of its non-strangers gave me life.”)

23.) And, Dov is back!! Dov calls Sadie on her relationship with Sam. He tells her “Here is a think to admit to yourself, if you’re able: that there will never be a person who can mean as much to her as Sam.” He adds that she needs to let go of the garbage (which he changes to “your perfectly legitimate grievances”) and get back to the business of making and playing games together. Finally as he is leaving, he says, “To build a world for someone seems a romantic thing from where I stand.” Amidst all the banter he admits that he is an awful person. What did you think of all these revelations? Do you agree with him? Does it change your opinion of him or redeem him at all?

24.) How was the end of the story? Did it end how you think is should have? What are your thoughts on Sam and Sadie now that you have seen their lives play out?

[Angie ☯]

DQs Day 3: Unfair Games / Both Sides / Pivot

11. Dov the D-bag is gone! But with one final spanner in the works that gumms up Sam & Sadie's relationship. What do you think about the different conflicts and how they are resolved? (thinking of the choice to go with Opus, and the design and creative compromises that leads to; the revelation that Sadie has about Sam's manipulation of her relationship with Dov to get his engine; the creative process around the development of Both Sides)
I too agree, the professional conflicts get dealt with but their personal ones are a mess. A mess that they created and continue to fuel because they refuse to talk to each other about their feelings. I don't think Sam knew the situation with Dov was bad; he has really no concept of emotions/relationships and Sadie sure didn't tell him anything. Even Marx told Sadie that he didn't think Sam saw the note on the game disc. But, I really really don't understand why she continued to see Dov!

12. The section "Both Sides" has a different chapter structure. Did you notice the change before reading any of the chapters or not? How did when you notice it affect your reading and understanding of Sadie & Sam's relationship? Did you think it was better than the way the rest of the book has been presenting the different views?
I listened to the audio, so I didn't really notice any change. Maybe a bit of difference in the flow of things, but not enough to make me check the book!

13. We end this section with Sam and Sadie still far from understanding each other, and a new emotional link being forged between Sadie Marx, with Sam (who I was reading as ace-spectrum) seeming to want a physical relationship with Sadie. Do these changing relationships ring true for you?
I didn't want Sam and Sadie to have a romantic relationship either. I'm not sure if Sam wanted the physical relationship with Sadie....I feel more like he didn't want Marx to have it. I was surprised that it took Marx/Sadie so long to hook up - but maybe Marx was trying to not because of Sam.

14. There is a lot in this section about Sam trying to come to terms with his amputation. Did the inclusion of some of the graphic pain and issues he was going through work for you? Do you understand Sam better?
I thought it was an interesting addition to the story. I think the issue with his foot was what started him distancing himself from peopleand that he continued to do so because he felt it made him less than others. Probably the whole community service debacle with Sadie not telling him about it, reinforced how he felt.

15. Entirely optional: When I was looking up a video to link on the home page a got a whole flock of Shakespearean actors reading the Macbeth soliloquy (under the spoiler below). Why do you think Zevin chose that phrase to be used as the title for the book? Does it suggest a trajectory for the story? Incidentally, one of the vids was for a young (and sexy!) Sir Ian McKellen doing a masterclass analysis of the soliloquy, that is worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGbZC...
Nor sure why she used it - I initially thought it was becuase in games you get to have a re-do anytime you want, thus tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow can all be new starts without dealing with the problems of yesterday.

[Angie ☯]

DQs Day 4
(VI: Marriages - VII: The NPC, p. 249-304)

16. The "Marriages" section opens with a description of Sam's avatar, Mayor Mazer, and its popularity/mass appeal. We've seen many moments of characters compared to video game characters (Sam compared, perhaps erroneously, to Ichigo) or crafting their own avatars (Marx creating his avatar for the D&D-like game he plays in the hotel in Tokyo). What do you think the author is asking us to consider when drawing these connections? Is Mayor Mazer simply another one of Sam's "masks," as Sadie describes them, or is there something deeper being explored here?
Sam's whole life is a mask. He doesn't share much with anyone. I think the avatar allows him to be more open because he is not making it be "him". While he is giving the avatar details, he draws on his own and shares them this way. I did think it was odd that we don't really get much about Sadie's avatar.

17. Should Sadie and Marx have told Sam when they started seeing each other? How did you feel about Sam's reaction?
Of course they should have. I'm not convinced that Sam wanted a romantic/sexual relationship with Sadie; I think he didn't want to share the closeness he had with Marx and he wanted that kind of closeness with Sadie. I agree with Cat, he could have fixed that by talking about it!!

18. What did you think about the stylistic change to 2nd person POV when Marx falls into the coma? What did this shift do for you as a reader, and what did it illuminate about Marx's character?
I thought it was good because how else would we be able to know what Marx was thinking/feeling. The shift confirmed for me that Marx was important to the details of the story but wasn't a main character; the story is about Sam and Sadie.

19. I was initially suspicious of Marx, but he's become my favorite character besides Sadie... It's been a while since a book made me cry, but I sobbed at the end of this section. Are you as wrecked as I am?
I hated that he was killed off....but the whole of Marx's charater is how giving he is to everyone around him. He gave the ultimate - he moved in front of Ant when he saw that Josh/red bandana was going to shoot him - he saved Ant's life, but sacrificed his own. T

20. (totally optional!) After finishing "The NPC" section, I returned to the opening paragraph. What do we think of this strange and otherworldly vignette (p. 283), and how does it compare to the section's poetic ending? Is the woman on the bike Zoe, and the horse being tamed Sadie? How did you interpret these images?
I thought it was easing us into the fact that Marx was dying and it was his jumbled memories of the day of the shooting and everything else - kind of like his life flashing before his eyes. I went back and read the opening / ending of this section after the questions were posted, but it didn't change my opinion. (I didn't give much thought to the horse or the woman on the bike. I was more concerned with knowing that this was the last of Marx.)

[Angie ☯]

DQs Day 5 ~ VIII: Our Infinite Days - X: Freights and Grooves

21.) Do you think that Sadie’s attitude toward Sam is realistic? How has it changed over time and especially after the loss of Marx?
I don't think it is realistic; she tends to blame Sam for everything wrong in her life. She gave Sam a very hard blow when she said that the shooter wanted him not Marx. Sam and Sadie are both emotionally challenged or crippled. Marx is the only person that either of them have had an easy relationship with.

22.) What do you think of the game Pioneers? What do you think were Sam’s reasons for creating it? Do you think that Sadie really was unaware of the similarities of her and Sam’s life to what was portrayed in Friendship? Even in Emily’s Will she admits that the game helped her (“When I came here I was as drained of hearts as I have ever been, and the tedium of Friendship and the kindness of its non-strangers gave me life.”)
I think that Sam didn't know how to help Sadie after Marx died - and that was really all he wanted to do was help her or ease her pain. Since they can't/won't talk to each other, I felt the game was his way of giving her a world that she could be herself and interact with him freely and be anyone or anything she wanted to be. And, I think he hoped that she could work her way out of the depression she was in. I also feel like Sadie knew, but wouldn't admit it.

23.) And, Dov is back!! Dov calls Sadie on her relationship with Sam. He tells her “Here is a think to admit to yourself, if you’re able: that there will never be a person who can mean as much to her as Sam.” He adds that she needs to let go of the garbage (which he changes to “your perfectly legitimate grievances”) and get back to the business of making and playing games together. Finally as he is leaving, he says, “To build a world for someone seems a romantic thing from where I stand.” Amidst all the banter he admits that he is an awful person. What did you think of all these revelations? Do you agree with him? Does it change your opinion of him or redeem him at all?
To me this is the only time that that Dov says something without having an agenda and is being totally truthful to Sadie. I do agree with him...but I still don't like him! He really is an awful person!

24.) How was the end of the story? Did it end how you think is should have? What are your thoughts on Sam and Sadie now that you have seen their lives play out?
I thought it spoke volumes that Sadie went to Sam's grandfather's funeral, even if she didn't actually talk to Sam. Also that Sam finally told her he loved her was a huge step. I think their lives will always be intertwined. In the chapter that wasn't written, but that is in my mind, they will finally sit down and tell each other everything and while they will never be more that great friends, they will finally accept each other for who they are and admit how ridiculous they were for all those years. Ha!

[Jenny]

DQs Day 4
(VI: Marriages - VII: The NPC, p. 249-304)

16. The "Marriages" section opens with a description of Sam's avatar, Mayor Mazer, and its popularity/mass appeal. We've seen many moments of characters compared to video game characters (Sam compared, perhaps erroneously, to Ichigo) or crafting their own avatars (Marx creating his avatar for the D&D-like game he plays in the hotel in Tokyo). What do you think the author is asking us to consider when drawing these connections? Is Mayor Mazer simply another one of Sam's "masks," as Sadie describes them, or is there something deeper being explored here?
I have never played a game like these, when I used an avatar, but I have been part of a medieval recreation group, and been on stage, and in both cases, it was pretty easy to be me but not me. So, I imagine that the mask aspect is a good way to show your true self with fewer real world consequences. There is probably a much deeper meaning here, which I will likely pick up n when I reread this book someday, as I absolutely will.

17. Should Sadie and Marx have told Sam when they started seeing each other? How did you feel about Sam's reaction?
I think they should have told him. He is an integral part of both of their lives, and keeping it from him was just a stupid, wrong move.
Sam was going to get hurt. He has always been in love with Sadie, but he was not brilliant at letting her know, of course.

18. What did you think about the stylistic change to 2nd person POV when Marx falls into the coma? What did this shift do for you as a reader, and what did it illuminate about Marx's character?
I thought it fit the moment. I was fighting back tears when reading this part, so I wasn't really analyzing the writing style though.

19. I was initially suspicious of Marx, but he's become my favorite character besides Sadie... It's been a while since a book made me cry, but I sobbed at the end of this section. Are you as wrecked as I am?
Oh good god yes.

[Jenny]

DQs Day 5 ~ VIII: Our Infinite Days - X: Freights and Grooves

21.) Do you think that Sadie’s attitude toward Sam is realistic? How has it changed over time and especially after the loss of Marx?
Realistic? Sure. I have know people who carry grudges or think the worst of someone. Is it annoying? Oh yes. I want to slap her sometimes. But, proper experience grief in weird ways sometimes.

22.) What do you think of the game Pioneers? What do you think were Sam’s reasons for creating it? Do you think that Sadie really was unaware of the similarities of her and Sam’s life to what was portrayed in Friendship? Even in Emily’s Will she admits that the game helped her (“When I came here I was as drained of hearts as I have ever been, and the tedium of Friendship and the kindness of its non-strangers gave me life.”)
I think that game might be very relaxing to play. I am sure Sam made it for her, and I think she did realize that fact, even when part of her was denying it.

23.) And, Dov is back!! Dov calls Sadie on her relationship with Sam. He tells her “Here is a think to admit to yourself, if you’re able: that there will never be a person who can mean as much to her as Sam.” He adds that she needs to let go of the garbage (which he changes to “your perfectly legitimate grievances”) and get back to the business of making and playing games together. Finally as he is leaving, he says, “To build a world for someone seems a romantic thing from where I stand.” Amidst all the banter he admits that he is an awful person. What did you think of all these revelations? Do you agree with him? Does it change your opinion of him or redeem him at all?
He knew Sadie well enough to call her on her bullshit. I do find his words redeem him a smidge. He seems to have matured maybe just a bit too. But, still an ass.

24.) How was the end of the story? Did it end how you think is should have? What are your thoughts on Sam and Sadie now that you have seen their lives play out?
I did like the end. Loose ends were tied up, but not so much that my imagination can't take the next steps with Sadie and Sam.
I still like both of them. Sam more than Sadie, but I do think I get her, and the way she acted.

[Jenny]

Participation links-

DQs day 1- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Day 2- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Day 3- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Day 4- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Day 5- https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Robin]

DQs Day 5 ~ VIII: Our Infinite Days - X: Freights and Grooves

21.) Do you think that Sadie’s attitude toward Sam is realistic? How has it changed over time and especially after the loss of Marx?
I think it's realistic... if only because it's so easy to hold a grudge. Sometimes our closest friends or family can wound us deeper than anyone else, and it's difficult to get over that feeling of betrayal. I understand Sadie's resentment, but I think the narrative makes it easy to assume that the two will reconcile in some small way, at least, by the end.

22.) What do you think of the game Pioneers? What do you think were Sam’s reasons for creating it? Do you think that Sadie really was unaware of the similarities of her and Sam’s life to what was portrayed in Friendship? Even in Emily’s Will she admits that the game helped her (“When I came here I was as drained of hearts as I have ever been, and the tedium of Friendship and the kindness of its non-strangers gave me life.”)
I really didn't enjoy this section, shockingly enough. I think I should've just given myself over to the whimsical aspect of it instead of trying to figure out exactly what was going on. I falsely assumed that Pioneers wasn't a real game, and that this was some kind of stylistic way of portraying the course of Sadie's life, so I found myself trying to map the game world onto the real world in ways that just didn't work and left me more confused! And no I don't think Sadie was really unaware of the similarities -- if anything, she's actively denying them or purposefully not thinking about them too much, which she admits in her conversation with Dov later on.

23.) And, Dov is back!! Dov calls Sadie on her relationship with Sam. He tells her “Here is a think to admit to yourself, if you’re able: that there will never be a person who can mean as much to her as Sam.” He adds that she needs to let go of the garbage (which he changes to “your perfectly legitimate grievances”) and get back to the business of making and playing games together. Finally as he is leaving, he says, “To build a world for someone seems a romantic thing from where I stand.” Amidst all the banter he admits that he is an awful person. What did you think of all these revelations? Do you agree with him? Does it change your opinion of him or redeem him at all?
Oof, I'm not sure Dov can be redeemed in my mind. I think Zevin does a great job crafting characters with life-like complexity, so Dov isn't 100% bad, but the way he treated Sadie (and the power difference in their relationship and the way he abused it) makes him a pretty shitty person imo. While he and Sadie can joke in good humor about it after the fact, I have a hard time believing he's not going to repeat this behavior...

24.) How was the end of the story? Did it end how you think is should have? What are your thoughts on Sam and Sadie now that you have seen their lives play out?
I liked it, but I really enjoyed the first half of the book way more than I liked the second. I appreciated seeing Sadie teaching (as a college instructor myself I love the way she connects with her students! She is clearly energized by teaching and mentoring them, and I can see she is processing and healing from Dov's abuse through her teaching, too). But on the whole I'm not really all that crazy about the way it ended, with the "Our Infinite Days" section really falling flat for me. It made a 5-star book into a 4.5-star book for me, but all in all I really enjoyed this novel and I'm already recommending it to a friend. :)

[Robin]

Participation links:

DQs Day 1: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
DQs Day 2: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
DQs Day 3: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
DQs Day 4: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
DQs Day 5: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...