Works of Thomas Hardy discussion
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Tess of the D’Urbervilles
Tess of the d'Urbervilles
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Tess of the d’Urbervilles - Phase the Seventh: Chapter 53 - 59, and post-read discussion
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Thomas Hardy points out and emphasises the multiple unhappy coincidences that take place. Bridget mentioned a few, and there are many others, such as Tess overhearing Angel's brothers, instead of meeting his parents as she had planned. but then it was her personality, and perhaps fallibility, as Jim might argue, which meant that she did not stick to her guns and see them, but instead more or less flunked it.
We are continually asking ourselves the age-old question: “Why do bad things happen to good people?” Thomas Hardy even muses over the possibility that Tess's sufferings are a punishment for her ancestors' crimes, or else that some murderous strain is in her blood, foreshadowed by the d'Urberville coach. I'm not sure I can see it like that, nor do I believe Thomas Hardy did, but Tess does seem to hear something odd at one point.
What is blindingly clear is that the “justice” meted out by the society around Tess is just as cruel as the “President of the Immortals.” Both her community and Angel condemn Tess for her "sin", even though it was Alec d'Urberville's. Tess is seen as someone to be criticised and cast aside, because of a terrible thing done to her, rather than something she did herself. Throughout she is presented as a passive victim.
Both Angel and Alec get away scot free. Tess's final execution emphasises the feeling that society, circumstance, and some external force - whether Thomas Hardy or a god - have been working against her the whole time.
Points well taken, Bridget. It's unquestionable that Hardy was a fatalist. It isn't a simple matter at all.Beyond that, I believe his primary message in this novel centers upon the extreme injustice to which Tess was subjected, by fate in all is workings, whether through human intervention or not. He seems to have become deeply disillusioned at the state of affairs in his day, particularly regarding how those in positions of power (clergy, the nobility and the new industrial class) treated workers, along with sexual double standard, etc. In fact, his final novel, Jude the Obscure was so severely criticized for being at odds with the prevailing opinions that he gave up writing novels altogether.
Tess is subjected to social/economic/sexual injustices of her time, but it's also worth noting that, in general, Hardy's attitude is that his characters inhabit a "blighted" world (and interesting that Tess holds that opinion even at the beginning; what had brought her to that?). In Hardy, fate never seems to raise characters up but instead dashes them down. Goodness and innocence are not a protection but aid in victimization.
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Yes, a good word to remember. Here's the part you mean - in chapter 4:
“Did you say the stars were worlds, Tess?”
“Yes.”
“All like ours?”
“I don’t know; but I think so. They sometimes seem to be like the apples on our stubbard-tree. Most of them splendid and sound—a few blighted.”
“Which do we live on—a splendid one or a blighted one?”
“A blighted one.”
“’Tis very unlucky that we didn’t pitch on a sound one, when there were so many more of ’em!”
And then Abraham reminds Tess (and us) of this again after Prince’s death:
“’Tis because we be on a blighted star, and not a sound one, isn’t it, Tess?”
We know that Abraham’s questions about the blighted stars reinforce the theme of fate bringing up the idea that one’s fate is preordained by circumstance or destiny, and cannot be escaped. It seems to affirm a predestined injustice, due to fate.
I think Tess has had enough experience of life to hold this view. For a long time she has had to organise the family because of her parents' casual attitude - bringing them back from the pub etc.
Now Tess has caused the death of Prince (though we know she was overtired and should not have been doing her father's job) - but I'm not at all surprised that by now she views the world as "blighted"! It may be near the beginning of the story for us, but not to Tess herself.
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1. His bloody death foreshadows her later crime - the pool of Prince’s blood foreshadows the bloody ceiling at the novel’s climax. It also links to the horse- drawn d'Urverville coach.
2. It begins a recurring plot point. Tess sees herself as a murderer - just as she does when she puts the birds to death. This is more foreshadowing.
3. Prince's death seals Tess into accepting her mother’s plan, so it is in some ways a prophecy of her future.
As you say Erich - "Fate never seems to raise characters up but instead dashes them down."
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"I believe the majority of his reading public, in general, would stumble when appreciating Hardy. Joyce, Dickens, and Hardy are all grand writers in their own way. I just wonder to what degree the general audience for such writers would overlap."
Let me start off by attempting to answer my own question. To my way of thinking Dickens’s audience was broad-based. Dickens was familiar with the works of the earlier British authors and had familiarity with Shakespeare. He had a good grasp of children’s stories and the common songs of the broad population. I think I read somewhere that the book Dickens most often referred to was Robinson Crusoe. That makes sense as many of Dickens characters must be self-reliant to survive.To me, Hardy has a much broader and sophisticated grasp of myth, history, nature and biology than Dickens. To fully appreciate Hardy I believe a serious reader would benefit from having both a broad and an eclectic base of reading and understanding of both the natural and the literary world. I think that a general reader could still greatly enjoy reading Hardy.
As for Joyce, well, candidly, I have made three fruitless attempts to read Joyce’s Ulysses. The book defeated me each time. I enjoyed The Dubliners and Portrait but found, in general, Joyce was not a pleasant reading experience. I believe reading should be, first and foremost, an enjoyable experience. That experience can be enhanced by a general background knowledge of literature but is not a prerequisite. For me, Ulysses is too much work and does not offer enough enjoyment, pleasure, or insight.
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What an excellent question!
I'm afraid I can't make head or tail of James Joyce - but do know several on GR who are very keen on him, including one in our group here (and probably more). I'm well aware that the fault is mine, but no, he's not for me.
Charles Dickens and Thomas Hardy though are both favourites of mine. In a way it puzzles me, as Charles Dickens always has such optimism - and humour - in the direst of circumstances, yet Thomas Hardy is not known for his optimism and can have a very dark view of life. But perhaps others find this too? So a general audience would reach for one, or the other, in certain moods? And reading Tess of the D’Urbervilles this time, I did notice some wry humorous asides - and also some passages that were filled with joy.
I think you're right about Thomas Hardy being far more concerned with nature. There are some lovely descriptions of nature in Charles Dickens, aren't there, but he was much more of a city man, and keen to point out the social evils - and industrial revolution - as it applied to urban areas, whereas we found that Thomas Hardy was concerned with how it was affecting farm work and the countryside in Tess of the D’Urbervilles. The country people he describes seem to be a narrower band too. We have workers on the land, their bosses who also work, clerics and students, and the nouveau riche. I think that's all in this novel, whereas Charles Dickens covers the entire social spectrum - plus some from other countries - in pretty much every novel.
But yes, I agree, and think that Charles Dickens's references are often topical, and not as frequently from mythology or the Bible as Thomas Hardy's are. I think Charles Dickens was just as concerned about the Bible, but you have to read the subtext (though some allusions and metaphors are pretty obvious!)
Someone (David?) commented on just how many quotes there were from the Holy Bible in this novel, whereas Thomas Hardy's are usually more often from mythology. I think they both quoted a lot from literature - particularly poetry. Of course Charles Dickens did write a little poetry ... but I hope you'll forgive me for saying I don't think it's anything to write home about!
Thomas Hardy's poetry was his first love, and as Jim reminded us yesterday, he was to be so brokenhearted at some of the critical reaction to Tess of the D’Urbervilles and the next novel, Jude the Obscure that he stopped writing novels completely, and concentrated on his poems. Over 900 of them!
I'm not sure I'm reaching any conclusion, but I do think that it is possible to enjoy classic Victorian authors who have different styles and concerns. Perhaps it's like not expecting Chopin to write an opera ... but acknowledging that he was the master at piano music.
A while back, we engaged in an attempt to identify the greatest villain in the novel. I don't think we succeeded in coming up with a convincing answer and I now believe I've figured out why: Hardy's novels are not about any contest between good and evil, heroes versus villains because for Hardy, real life is not that simple. He saw his protagonist having to struggle not against some evil foe but rather having to make complicated decisions where there are always pros and cons, uncomfortable trade-offs, unintended consequences. And his characters are hampered by their own weaknesses, prejudices, character flaws as well as having to function within a society that is often unforgiving, unfair or even vindictive. It seems to me that Hardy fostered a much less optimistic view of the state of humanity in his day than did his major contemporaries. Hence his novels feature less optimism and his humor is subdued; for example, one almost never encounters in Hardy's works the sort of hilarious caricatures that Dickens offered, even in novels that are otherwise serious in mood. If Hardy perceived a villain, it might be the indomitable fate that pursued his protagonists.
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I like this way of looking at it very much Jim :)
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Jim, I really liked your last post as well. I think you are right about Hardy seeing fate as the true villain, great thought.
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Recently I've added a humorous children's story by Thomas Hardy to our shelves, and set it for January. They are very few and far between though! Upcoming very soon are our weekly poems again, and looking at those it has struck me that some would be suitable - and accessible to children. Others wouldn't though.
Let's move on to another question - though of course all the earlier ones are sill "open" for comment :)
Ou r fifth
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Recently I've added a humorous children's story by Thomas Hardy to our shelves, and set it for January. They are very few and far between though! Upcoming very soon are our weekly poems again, and looking at those it has struck me that some would be suitable - and accessible to children. Others wouldn't though.
Let's move on to another question - though of course all the earlier ones are still "open" for comment :)
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"It seemed as if Tess and Alec were foils for each other. Each character, when placed together, highlighted the extremes of the other.
This made me wonder what, if any, larger point about morality was being made through these representations."
A compelling question. Tangled destinies, acting at cross purposes, etc..But I would rather start by examining Alec and Tess as representing two opposite social classes, cohorts that are seldom able to act in harmony:
Alec is of that new class, led by entrepreneurial men and their families who benefit economically from the agrarian and industrial changes that take place in mid 19th century Britain. Having acquired some wealth, his family change their name, seeking to gain social standing. Alec is therefore acquisitive, upwardly mobile and socially nimble to take advantage of changing conditions but he oversteps in his dealing with Tess, a woman whose character he does not really understand.
Tess is a product of the older class of people, largely tenant farmers, village dwellers and hired laborers who are finding it increasingly difficult to make ends meet. Many, especially the youth are migrating to the cities, where they encounter squalor and exploitation. Tess is a product of her upbringing; she is naïve and incapable of coping with Alec's schemes and deception. When placed in a state of desperation, she cannot cope, breaks down and lashes out violently and self-destructively.
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I know many have had a busy weekend, but will add another question which came out of the discussion. Feel free to answer any!
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Any thoughts?
Yes I think so. Tess was published in 1891. Hardy certainly felt the wraith of the 19C critics’ minds. He would again feel their wrath with the publication of Jude. There were many social changes occurring at the close of the century. I believe Hardy was an acute observer of this society and its foibles and yet was caught between what he saw, felt, and believed and what he was able to write in his novels.
Perhaps the remainder of his life, as Hardy focussed only on poetry, is an insight to his mind. What he could not say in lengthened prose he could say in the magic and mystery of poetry. While a critic may parse a novel with apparent ease, a poem must always remain a truthful mystery that will always refuse to reveal itself fully.
Hi Jim,Thank you for your response! I appreciate your point about Alec and Tess representing two opposite social classes. Your idea about Alec representing the newly wealthy really struck a chord with me because it made me think about his position in relation to established aristocratic families and how hard it could be for the nouveau riche to gain a foothold into those inner circles. Money alone could only get one so far. :)
Jim wrote: "A compelling question. Tangled destinies, acting at cross purposes, etc..
But I would rather start by examining Alec and Tess as representing two opposite social classes, cohorts that are seldom ab..."
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Until then we have just one more "set" question arising from the read which was by Pankies:
"I find Alec's appearance as a newly converted fire and brimstone preacher not at all believeable. What does anyone else think about Hardy's choice of ways to bring home back into the story?"
Your thoughts?
Peter wrote: "Yes I think so. Tess was published in 1891. Hardy certainly felt the wraith of the 19C critics’ minds. He would again feel their wrath with the publication of Jude. To Peter @ 120 Thank you! Yes, Hardy always seems to observe human behavior while also showing compassion toward human nature. You capture his own quandary effectively by explaining what he wanted to express regarding his beliefs but then also (wisely) knew how to write. Because of his keen observation of individuals and social interactions, he most likely recognized patterns. A new century brought hope or at least opportunity for changes.
I have so much to learn about this time in history, but I usually come away with many more questions about how individuals survived or made their own way if they did not fit into socially approved norms.
How could one rise above an invisible yet intractable station? How was one supposed to take responsibility or learn a lesson if all of his (or sometimes her) world excused bad behavior -- well, more likely I want to focus on "cruel behavior" instead. I suppose my own biases are emerging, so I now grow quiet in order to not impose presentism.
Again, thank you!
There were many social changes..."
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Now we resume our weekly poem, and the first one is one which is unmistakeably about our heroine, Tess: LINK HERE
Do join in and add your thoughts!
I finally finished today. I haven't commented during the reading, but found all the details provided by everyone so helpful. I abandoned my first attempt a few years ago, but being able to follow at a slow pace helped immensely.Thank you, Jean, for inviting me to join. It was my first book by Hardy who, like Dickens, intimidate me (I find Anthony Trollope and Wilkie Collins more approachable). However, this time I could appreciate his use of imagery and beautiful rural setting so much better.
I have to admit as someone who deals with agriculture in my work, I found a lot of those details very interesting. I'm also deeply involved in the discussions on biodiversity loss and reading this brought that home to me.
I look forward to some of the short stories and poems that we'll be reading now. Thank you very much for sharing your love of Tess with me everyone!
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Oh I'm so pleased Carolien :) And thank you for adding a comment here. Next time, do feel free to comment as you read along - it does not matter at all if it's a bit later!
We have a poem about Tess this week LINK HERE
and another on Sunday, so do call in there too! Each poem starts off in the "Currently Reading" folder, before being moved to "Poetry".
I didn't join in this read, although I've read bits and pieces of the discussion; but I read the novel back in the 90s, and it got five stars from me when I eventually reviewed it here on Goodreads. There are aspects of my review that are "spoilerish" for those who haven't read the book (this is a hard one to review without spoilers!); but since everybody reading this thread has apparently finished the last chapter by now, I'll share the link to my review for anyone who's interested: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... .
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You're welcome, Jean! I don't post in this group very often, but I'm glad to contribute something when I can. :-)
Interesting review, thanks Werner!
You're welcome. Michaela; thank you!
I finished reading Tess on New Year's Eve night and it was the last book I finished in 2022. It will go onto my favorites shelf shortly. I stated at the end of October which was about the point where the group was already mid-way through the book. It was hard for me to keep pace because of other book commitments and my work schedule. There were many days that I did not read at all.I would have liked to read through all of the threads dedicated to the phases of the book because I can tell from what I just read this evening that all the discussion and commentary would have been very helpful and given me more background to what I was reading. That said, however, since last night I did read through the phase 7 thread and the wrap-up discussion and found all of it very interesting and informative...I loved the various questions posed at the end and the discussion and the interesting thoughts and opinions. I particularly enjoyed the discussion of fatalism in Tess and Thomas Hardy's work in general. This is something that I will be looking out for as I read more of his novels.
Because I don't have the experience with Hardy that it seems most of you have already, I have started Claire Tomalin's Thomas Hardy which is already proving to be very good and I am only 31 pages in.
Over the course of the last couple of months when I had to pause reading Tess for various reasons I noticed that it stayed with me...I kept dwelling on what I had read and thinking about the characters. A book that stays with me like this is inevitably a favorite for me. It was simply excellent and I see myself returning to Tess for a re-read.
Thank you Jean for encouraging me to start with Tess, I am happy that I did and I am looking forward to reading along with all of you when we start the next novel.
I am currently enjoying the poems as they are posted each week and the lively discussion there as well and will continue to do so and try to add my own thoughts over the next couple of weeks.
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I'm delighted you have posted ... I had been wondering how you were getting on. Yes, quite a few of us find that Tess of the D’Urbervilles stays with us over the years, as we reread it 😊 It isn't something I often do, to recommend a late work by an author for a first read, but in this case it does have some timeless concerns, and is so well written! You're right, fatalism is definitely key in nearly all his works.
I'm so pleased that you got some benefit from the discussions too Darrin, and hope you will join in with the poems. This week's is actually directly related to Tess of the D’Urbervilles, as was a earlier one (you can tell which one by the title!) The poem threads remain open for comment any time.
Claire Tomalin's Thomas Hardy: The Time Torn Man is an excellent read and flows well. I hope you enjoy it! Come and tell us what you think in one of the thread (maybe the King's Arms chat thread?) if you like.
Hello Jean and all,I'm as late as Angel Clare (ha!), but I finally finished tonight.
I found this story to be personally very difficult to tolerate, and I wonder if other people with similar histories (victimhoods akin to Tess's) would feel the same. It's foreboding, unjust, and cruel. Even today, in spite of ongoing help by trained professionals, some psychological scars do not completely heal... and having lousy parents tends to be a life-long curse as well, as chances are you missed some vital neural development that would have helped buoy you along in your adulthood. Having Alec d'Urberville continue to ruin Tess's life (either near at hand or reaching forward from the past), nevermind the almost equally appalling hypocrite who is Angel, seemed inevitable to me.
I can't really add anything, other than to say I found the 'Curse of the d'Urbervilles', this apparaition of a ghostly coach as a ill omen or death knell, both amusing and illustrative: Alec isn't even sure if it was the kidnapped woman and would-be-rape-victim who was killed, or the d'Urberville villain, and he is completely disinterested in these details. There was just something in his nonchalance about relating that one particular story that had me certain that he'd probably either kill or be killed in the end.
As for Tess, it couldn't end well for her. It seemed foreshadowed from the outset (again, why I found it so painful to read). Not everyone gets a fair or easy shake at life, and I appreciate very much Hardy's attempts to elicit empathy in his readers for women, particularly at that time.
Thanks for inciting me to read (and finish) this - the subject matter was a bit too close to home for me, but I hear Far From the Madding Crowd might be safer fare. ;)
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It's so good to read your thoughts on this, but of course I am sorry you found some of the themes so close to home 😌 Because of that, I think you did very well to persevere and finish the novel!
"It's foreboding, unjust, and cruel." I'm sure Thomas Hardy would agree! We discussed this a lot in the threads, as you will have seen. It is not an easy read, but a very powerful message. And you picked up on all the foreshadowing by the sounds of it.
Thomas Hardy does often have a strong element of social justice in his books, but I don't think you are likely to find any of the others hitting quite such a personal nerve. I hope you'll be in for our next novel later in the year - and perhaps give our weekly poem a try now, Capn?
I have been following the threads alongside my own reading of Tess and I would like to thank everyone for their wonderful comments. Jean, I especially appreciate all the work that has gone into your posts. They have been informative, spoiler free, and so very enriching. I will comment on a few of the questions in due course, after a little processing. I have flung myself immediately into a light-hearted read, it's been an intense ride!
David wrote: "I had occasion to consult my copy of FB Pinion’s encyclopaedic A Hardy Companion, and I was surprised to discover in the author’s timeline section that in 1913 “Hardy’s sister Mary died in November at Talbothays”. I’d assumed that that was an imagined location unless, of course, it was named in tribute to where Tess was happiest."For now, I think I can answer the above question. I'll also post this information in the Thomas Hardy's Homes: Places He Lived and Loved thread.
Talbothays is the name Hardy gave the dairy farm in Tess of the D'Urbervilles. The name derives from the farm owned by Hardy's father in Stafford village. There was no house on it at that time. Talbothays is in 'the Valley of the Great Dairies'—the Frome valley between Puddletown Heath and West Stafford.
Thomas Hardy and his brother Henry collaborated on the design and construction of the house built on his father's land, with the intention of providing a more comfortable home for their mother and unmarried siblings to live in after the death of their father. Hardy's mother was unwilling to move and the house was let out. Hardy's brother and two sisters eventually moved into the house in 1912. Until his early 80's, Hardy was still fit enough to visit his siblings at Talbothays by bicycle!
Sources:
A Hardy Companion by F.B. Pinion
Thomas Hardy by Claire Tomalin
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Thank you Jane. This does make me smile, and makes it worthwhile 😊
Thank you too, for solving one of our remaining questions ... I wonder if I will be able to get there later this summer, to elicit more infomation.
Bionic Jean wrote: "I can't quite see him in black and white as a villain, but I think quite a few of us do. So what do you think?"I agree, Jean. Neither Angel nor Alec was clear-cut in their goodness or villainy. The heavenly name and harp playing symbolism surrounding Angel turned out to be a clever misdirection. Similarly, Alec with the pitchfork wasn't altogether evil. Yes, Alec disregarded the consequences of his actions beyond his own desire, but his behaviour towards Tess wasn't cruel for the sake of it. He could have easily found a mistress without familial responsibility, or been less than generous towards Tess's family.
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Bridget wrote: "I can't help wondering if he would have married her had he known about the baby. Her life would have been very different if she had married Alec. Of course, it's just speculation. Alec may have still abandoned her even if he knew.Bridget, I do believe there was a good chance Alec would have married Tess if he had been aware of the pregnancy. Alec didn't abandon Tess, she chose to leave. When Tess decided to leave him (to his displeasure) he told her to apply to him if she was in the least need, the least difficulty, send me one line, and you shall have by return whatever you require.
Alec very much coveted Tess, and her pull seemed to be greater for him than that of other females. Alec had the money to support Tess and her family. Marriage wasn't as confining to the freedom of (especially rich) males as it was for females. It was not uncommon for rich men to engage in extramarital activity, it was almost expected. I don't believe marrying Tess would have cramped Alec's style too much.
April wrote: "When I read the scenes about his conversion, I felt that Alec's desire to be a better person was sincere but he lacked the strength to see this transformation through.You've hit the nail on the head there, April! I think the death of Alec's mother triggered the conversion, but the true self-serving nature of his character resurfaced when real temptation presented itself. Why a conversion at all? Even Alec d'Urberville was capable of some measure of existential angst upon a close visitation of death.
Jim wrote: "While external forces and the seeming randomness of events do impact our lives, each of us helps the process along by the actions we take. Our freedom of choice may be limited or not easily perceived but some choices do exist. The choices each of us make will be largely determined by our character and state of mind."This is a profound insight, Jim. I believe you are right for the most part; though this perspective can be hard to appreciate when in the centre of trying circumstance. I will make a point of saving your words. It is a critical observation, the import of which one must never forget.
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What we know for sure is that Tess kept the secret of her pregnancy to herself.
Yes, perhaps he would have married her; he hinted as much when he found her after his conversion and lapse. The reason Tess was a "kept woman" in the end, rather than having married Alec, is because she was already married.
Pamela wrote: "If indeed it was rape — which I have a feeling was more of just giving in to the eventual (which is still rape I believe) — society has already told Tess all she needed to know, that it was her fault: she somehow led him on, was too beautiful and tempted him. There's no need for a name to what he did to her because the taint was not on Alec."Pamela, I just wanted to acknowledge this excellent comment.
Pankies wrote: "A question I have is whether with her limited education and the narrow horizons she has lived within, would Tess have had a concept of rape? It was a very patriarchal society and women were brought up to be subservient to their fathers, brothers and husbands ... My present day perspectives make me think that living in such an environment would be unbearable, but I suppose that people generally are able to accept whatever environment is the norm around them as they grow up - especially when they little or no idea of any alternative lifestyles."Pankies, women are still living under these circumstances. Even in the Western world, there are girls living in this environment at home and in their community. If we label male sexual manipulation and less than willing female sexual capitulation as rape, then—sadly—it is likely a vast number of women can be classified as assault victims. This still remains an issue, even in more progressive societies. This is one of the reasons why I believe Hardy is still relevant today.
Someone mentioned how stabbing someone in the chest was a very personal and passionate way to kill someone. I think this is very true. I think Hardy very clearly and truthfully portrayed (as far as one can within fiction) a true crime of passion. I hope I am not misunderstood, but I also wanted to mention that I thought it a little unfair that Alec telling Tess that Angel wouldn't return was considered 'taunting'. (By no means am I suggesting Alec wasn't using various manipulation techniques to 'win her back'.) I can understand that it might have seemed like taunting in Tess's distressed state. I think this may have been Hardy's attempt to show the state of Tess's mind at the time of the killing. Given the time in which the story took place, the reason why Angel left, and the amount of time he had been away, not many people would have expected Angel to return for Tess.
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But Tess's silence about it, her passivity and acceptance of her lot when she had had a child as a result, had a lasting effect on several characters in the book. Thomas Hardy's sympathies lie with Tess, but he paints a realistic portrait of her - including her pride - as well as of the others.
Jane, it is a such a shame you could not discuss this with us at the time, with all the different points of view. However I do look forward to you joining in with us next time!
Bionic Jean wrote: "I do think Pankies,' question "would Tess have had a concept of rape?" is key. (I know Pankies has also read this book more than once!) Exactly what took place in the woods, which (it is sometimes ..."Jean, what care and keen insight you've provided to us all. Thank you!
For a good while now, I have been so busy with school that I've used Goodreads to merely list books I've been reading. Therefore, I have not followed conversations or others' literary adventures and misadventures (my nod to Don Quijote). Coming to Goodreads today I read your comment and smiled gently. You've been wise and welcoming, and you are appreciated.
Enjoy the beginning of spring. . . .
Jan
Works of Thomas Hardy
Books mentioned in this topic
Tess of the D’Urbervilles (other topics)Tess of the D’Urbervilles (other topics)
Tess of the D’Urbervilles (other topics)
Tess of the D’Urbervilles (other topics)
A Hardy Companion (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Iris Murdoch (other topics)John Bayley (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
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Bridget wrote: "I very much like Jim’s idea of fate being “human fallibility” ... But what are we to make of the final passage “the President of the immortals … had ended his sport with Tess”?
It seems to me there are also many moments where things just go wrong without explanation other than happenstance ..."
Erich wrote "Tess's fate is set based on circumstances combined with personalities that make the outcome inevitable.
There's a consensus here :)
I think we can all see Thomas Hardy's contention that that it is a combination of both fate and human nature that inevitably leads to sometimes tragic, and seemingly unjust, outcomes. Tess Durbeyfield's story is basically defined by all the bad things that happen to her. Thomas Hardy himself, as narrator, seems to be her only advocate against an unjust world.