What are we reading? 10 October 2022

[Andy]

I am watching some old clips of the great man Robbie Coltrane tonight.

He was a big influence. Though Black Adder will be much quoted, I think some of his performances in Comic Strip saw him at his best.

This for example, from Supergrass.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX51m...

[AB76]

Andy wrote: "I am watching some old clips of the great man Robbie Coltrane tonight.

He was a big influence. Though Black Adder will be much quoted, I think some of his performances in Comic Strip saw him at h..."

RIP The Big Man....

[Lass]

Great memory of seeing Robbie Coltrane in Mistero Buffo in Glasgow in 1990. Outstanding. Such very sad news about him today.

[Andy]

Lass wrote: "Great memory of seeing Robbie Coltrane in Mistero Buffo in Glasgow in 1990. Outstanding. Such very sad news about him today."

Miriam Margolyes has just spoken well about him on Today on Radio 4.
See if you can wind back and catch it.
She follows Jeremy Hunt. At the end of her interview she says, she can’t believe she has just sat in the same chair as him.
She said good morning to him, and what a difficult job he has. She then says what I really wanted to say was ‘Fuck you’.

Came as some surprise to the presenters.
Absolutely hilarious. A fitting tribute to Coltrane also.

[AB76]

Andy wrote: "Lass wrote: "Great memory of seeing Robbie Coltrane in Mistero Buffo in Glasgow in 1990. Outstanding. Such very sad news about him today."

Miriam Margolyes has just spoken well about him on Today ..."

Hunt is my local MP, vanished when he was in cabinet from 2010-16, then was everywhere like an unwanted smell when out of cabinet, i would imagine he will vanish again now. Not popular locally where the tories are decimated but at parlimentary elections, its a 60/40 Tory-Liberal seat and i dont think the Libs will unseat him, the seat has never been anything but Tory

[AB76]

Having finished the short but excellent Argentine crime novel Death Going Down by Maria Angelina Bosco, i move onto my next read.

Much anticipated its another Australian novel from Text Classics called The Fringe Dwellers by Nene Gare (1961). It deals with life on an Aborigine family settlement in Western Australia, where the lives of the deprived native peoples are marginalised even more. The Australian census didnt even record the native population till the late 1960s.

This dwelling is on the outskirts of Geraldton, which at the time was one of many very small fringe cities in the the vast state, where only Perth and the mining towns had any significant population.

[giveusaclue]

AB76 wrote: "Andy wrote: "Lass wrote: "Great memory of seeing Robbie Coltrane in Mistero Buffo in Glasgow in 1990. Outstanding. Such very sad news about him today."

Miriam Margolyes has just spoken well about ..."

I have no time at all for Jeremy Hunt but I am afraid MM is becoming a bit of a legend in her own head.

[giveusaclue]

Have finally finished reading

It only gets 3* from readers here but I gave it 5 which is rare for me. I thoroughly enjoyed it and found it very informative. The actual description of the battle comes right at the very end and only takes up a small part of the book. The description of events, over 50 years, leading up eventually to the battle are really well done and give a much better insight into the savagery of the various battles and effectively the end of chivalry (which only ever encompassed the nobility who would be ransomed, and not the plebs who would be chopped). Not just that, but also the factional sides of the struggle and the overweening self-interest that had such a bearing on matters, never mind the good of the country - no change there then!

Mind you I did go online and printed off a map of the battlefield - one of the disadvantages of an ereader.

https://www.britishbattles.com/wars-o...

It was the weather wot won it, and the late arrival of the Duke of Norfolk!

[scarletnoir]

Andy wrote: "and, my book of the week, Mr. Bowling Buys a Newspaper by Donald Henderson."

Well, thanks for that - I'm fond of black humour and the passages you quote made me smile... I may well go for this one. (It's quite unusual for me to like extracts like that - and I daresay, others probably are unimpressed with the quotes I include!)

As for "bally" - I don't recall seeing that in writing since reading Biggles all those years ago - almost certainly, it was the monocled one - Bertie - who used it.

[scarletnoir]

CCCubbon wrote: "@Andy
Another question for you.
Have you had any problems with ticks, you or the dog?"

Haha! I was scrolling, and misread that as "Have you had any problems with ticks, you dog?"

I thought for a second that you must be privy to Andy's personal life and habits... until I looked again.

You're right about ticks, though - they are quite common in France, where we've had to remove them from our dogs... Indeed, dogs must undergo anti-tick treatment before they return to the UK.

Our worst tick experience was when one attached itself to our younger daughter's earlobe and swelled up disgustingly with her blood... as luck would have it, we were visiting our wonderful (late) friend Jo, who was a pharmacist... he used cotton wool doused in alcohol, so that the tick fell off quite gently. At least it died happy!

Edit: having seen Andy and AB's replies - some dogs are very good at spitting out pills - our Teddy is an expert, so my wife often has to crush pills and mix them in with something palatable; our vet daughter's dog will swallow anything...

And AB - there are some excellent tick removal gadgets out there nowadays... we always have a few handy.

[scarletnoir]

Lass wrote: "Great memory of seeing Robbie Coltrane in Mistero Buffo in Glasgow in 1990. Outstanding. Such very sad news about him today."

A terrific actor - I missed some of his early comedy work as I was living in France from 1981-86; my first memory of Coltrane is from the excellent series "Tutti Frutti", where he was outstanding, and later from "Cracker".

Didn't know much about his personal life until today - I was surprised to learn that he was a boarder at an independent school (which he hated). I suspect he had some personal demons which may (or may not) have been linked to that period, but who knows? He was clearly a master of many accents, having had to dispense with the 'posh' one when he went to art college.

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "Much anticipated its another Australian novel from Text Classics ..."

AB - in a recently viewed episode of 'Longmire', there was reference to forced sterilisation of native American women on a reservation. It seems to have been a theme of many 'dominant/defeated' cultures in the not so recent past, where the 'winners' would either try to eliminate the defeated, or at best 'absorb' them by forced adoptions etc. It's a theme covered in, for example, the excellent film 'Rabbit Proof Fence':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit-...

Does this form part of what the book is about? Do you know if there was an underlying 'philosophical justification' for all this? I have the impression that this sort of thing was going on in many different countries at that time.

[CCCubbon]

scarletnoir wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "@Andy
Another question for you.
Have you had any problems with ticks, you or the dog?"

Haha! I was scrolling, and misread that as "Have you had any problems with ticks, you dog?"
..."

Didn’t realise that there are nearly 900 different species of tick and every country seems to have them. Good thing not so many infect humans. Worst case for me was in Africa, dog we were looking after went missing - found him eventually covered in ticks. Ugh but he lived and we never told the owner!

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Much anticipated its another Australian novel from Text Classics ..."

AB - in a recently viewed episode of 'Longmire', there was reference to forced sterilisation of native American w..."

havent started it yet but i gather that Nene Gare, the author lived near and studied the Aborigine fringe settlements in the 1950s and based the novel on her experiences. So i would imagine its more about cultural exclusion that followed the appalling pre 1950s treatment of the native people of Australia.

I see cultural exclusion as what colonialism slides into when confronted by a problem which cannot be solved by genocide. the approach becomes to marginalise the "other", have them "ghetto'd" and then outside the established welfare state. while looking paternalistic.

I think the USA had a unique approach to this when emancipation followed the defeat of the South, millions of african-americans were left to try and make a living on the worst land or migrate to crowded cities, freedom was granted but they remained located in the deprived, exhausted land areas of the south. Modern Detroit(and Flint) is maybe another example where the city is totally neglected and ignored due to its large black population, though no american policy makers would say that

[Lass]

@clue, et al…..re Miriam Margolyes. Saw her “Dickens Women” in Edinburgh a few years ago. Excellent, but avoided her at the signing/chat at the end. Don’t think I was the only one. Definitely a loose cannon.

And on the subject of Dickens, Claire Tomalin’s biog is excellent. I’ve a feeling I’ve mentioned that recently. 🫢

[AB76]

Seasons of Purgatory by Shahriar Mandanipour is his first collection of stories published in English and is intriguing me.

Iranian culture, like Arab culture, fascinates me and its great to find modern works from these places in translation. The world that Mandanipour describes is a shadowy one of secrets and fear. Locations are not entirely specific, there is some where the Iran-Iraq war features but others where courtyards or graveyards are locations.

Exiled from Iran, though he did serve in the Iran-Iraq War, i feel this is an important cultural collection and i am savouring each story slowly

[CCCubbon]

I finished Wolf Pack By Will Dean up there in northern Sweden again, strange sort of place/town once more - must be all those trees.
Typical Dean with a full cast of odd characters but I rather like the weirdness of it all although one has to suspend some bejief. This time there was a small group intent on self/sufficiency/ reliance/ defence/ …. a kind of tiny cult or pack as they call it - no wolves. Deaf Tuva full of angst keeps it going.
Still reckon his The last thing to Burn - a one off set in England is by far his best book, that had me scared!

[Gpfr]

CCCubbon wrote: "I finished Wolf Pack By Will Dean..."

I'm reading Wolf Pack at the moment— fortunately a bit less gruesome than Bad Apples!

[MK]

giveusaclue wrote: "Have finally finished reading

It only gets 3* from readers here but I gave it 5 which is rare for me. I thoroughly enjoyed it and fou..."

Wow - imagine my surprise - my library has it! Now on hold for me. Thanks. (as if I needed another book to read)

[MK]

While I feel for the Ukers here, we have our own problems. Beware I am going to bore you with them, but before I do, what are the bookmakers' odds on Liz Truss being one of the shortest, if not the shortest PM in history?

Seattle politics. Seattle has a Mayor and a pretty strong - politicalwise - City Council. Since forever all voters got elect both. Then a bunch of residents decided that Downtown had too much clout (money) and got enough people to sign on - that we voted to divide into districts - 9 reps, 7 of them representing a physical land mass in the city (where they have to live) and 2 to represent the whole city.

Next came the census and because of demographic changes we are doing re-districting. Enter a racial justice group. They decided where I live (a peninsula set off from the rest of the city) is full of rich people (that's how they've sold it) so we should be split in two. In reality, I think the reason was we register to vote and vote in 90+% numbers.

So next week the appointed volunteers (more fool they) have to vote on district maps - one of which keeps our neighborhood together. I have been spending too much time attending meetings and urging (online) our neighbors to comment and will be glad when it is over. However, if we are divided I will contribute what I can to any lawsuit.

Politics everywhere seems to suck. I sure wouldn't sell my soul to get elected. There - done.

PS - Saw 5 🚕 yesterday, but 2 were taxis. Of course I said "yellow car" and am glad I drive alone. 😎

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "I see cultural exclusion as what colonialism slides into when confronted by a problem which cannot be solved by genocide. the approach becomes to marginalise the "other", have them "ghetto'd" and then outside the established welfare state. while looking paternalistic...."

Thanks AB...

Having thought about this further, I recalled that there was a theory of 'eugenics' doing the rounds around that time (and a bit earlier). This pernicious theory seems (from recent reading) to have been more widespread than I'd realised... I was aware of the example of Nazi Germany (obviously) but it was widely practised in many countries. Not long ago, I saw it referred to in relation to the Sami people in Scandinavia, and the Longmire episode made me aware of its application to native Americans.

I'm not sure if your book will deal with a full-blown version of this philosophy, or a milder version, but it seems to be linked. I came across a good online resource:

https://www.genome.gov/about-genomics....

[Andy]

Just finished a good one, Mischief by Charlotte Armstrong

Charlotte Armstrong is new to me, and if this is anything to go by, I am looking forward to reading much more from her.
In the late 1940s she progressed from writing conventional whodunnits to more complex suspense stories, which we know refer to as noirs. These immediately brought her to recognition, in 1947 her novel The Unsuspected was adapted as a Hollywood film. Subsequent books, up until her final book in 1968, were nominated for the Edgar for Best Novel.

Ruth and Peter Jones are from the small rural town of Brennerton, where Peter is the editor of the local newspaper. They are in New York City for Peter to make a presentation at conference of fellow pressmen. When the babysitter for their 9 year old daughter Bunny cancels at the last minute, the hotel’s friendly elevator operator, Eddie, suggests his niece, Nell, for the job. They accept, though this turns out to be a very bad idea.

Her ‘mischief’ is initially low-key, exiling Bunny to her bedroom, while she tries on Ruth’s clothes and uses her make-up. She spies a handsome stranger out of the window and invites him up for a nightcap.
The unsuspecting Jed Towers accepts. He is straight out of a row with his girl-friend, and soon immersed in booze and canoodling with a girl who is much younger than he thought, and whose sanity he soon begins to doubt.
The situation worsens rapidly, from weird to deranged to the downright terrifying.

Armstrong’s timing is to perfection. Her characters are completely convincing, and the success of the book in many ways, is in watching how they each deal with the situation by which they are confronted.

Behind the characters is the hotel itself, which plays a key part, and whose image is, almost from the start, clearly imprinted in the reader’s mind.

Of most interest, is the character of Nell herself. We are introduced to her as a seemingly innocent, quiet 18 year old girl. Gradually our opinion of her changes. More than simply a maniac who terrorises a young girl and her family, and imperils the life of a passing stranger, she represents the fears within those around her; she is only concerned with herself, unable to connect her actions to any sort of consequence, with a disastrous outcome.
A comparison to Highsmith and Millar is not out of place, certainly from the evidence of this.

Published in 1951, the book was adapted as a film (Don’t Bother To Knock) the year after, with Marilyn Monroe, in one of her first roles, as Nell.

One reviewer at the time remarked, “Mischief will do for babysitters what Psycho did for showers.”

[giveusaclue]

MK wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Have finally finished reading

It only gets 3* from readers here but I gave it 5 which is rare for me. I thoroughl..."

Haha, Don't know whether to say sorry or you are welcome!

[scarletnoir]

MK wrote: "...what are the bookmakers' odds on Liz Truss being one of the shortest, if not the shortest PM in history?"

These odds are from October 11th, but they will have shortened considerably by now, following the replacement of her Chancellor and poor performance at the subsequent press conference:

According to political betting sites, Truss is 6/1 to lose her job this year. That price has actually stabilised from the 7/2 odds provided during the height of the government-triggered financial crisis in September. Still, it’s a long way from the 20/1 price gifted Truss at the start of her reign.

Meanwhile, the chances of her being ousted in 2023 continue to rise. Bookies have shifted that price from 7/4 (36.4%), to 5/4 (44.4%), to a new mark of 4/5 (55.6%).

Truss is now more likely to be booted out of No 10 in 2023 than she is to keep her job.

A more realistic view is proposed by the tabloid Daily Star, which asks whether her shelf life is longer than an unrefrigerated lettuce:

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/can-...

As for your problems - would this be part of the Republican move to gerrymander as much of the USA as possible, to retain power in the hands of rich white people? Or is something else, maybe local, afoot?

Oh - and I am now up to speed on 'yellow car' in the Slough House series! (And I saw one yesterday...)

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "I see cultural exclusion as what colonialism slides into when confronted by a problem which cannot be solved by genocide. the approach becomes to marginalise the "other", have them "gh..."

Eugenics was also quite popular in britain in the 1900-40 period, though it was carefully worded and labelled, Francis Galton was a key player and this link might be helpful:

https://eugenicsarchive.ca/discover/t...

Somewhere i found some old eugenics journals (downloaded) and found them sinister between the flannel, looking at "healthy" people and the burden of the less healthy but always clever with the wording

A version of the eugenics society still exists, with a different name

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelphi...

[Tam]

scarletnoir wrote: "MK wrote: "...what are the bookmakers' odds on Liz Truss being one of the shortest, if not the shortest PM in history?"

These odds are from October 11th, but they will have shortened considerably ..."

I have an iceberg lettuce, bought yesterday from a popular supermarket, and sitting in the fridge... I will let you know...

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "Eugenics was also quite popular in britain in the 1900-40 period, though it was carefully worded and labelled, Francis Galton was a key player and this link might be helpful:

https://eugenicsarchive.ca/discover/t...."

Thanks for that... I remembered that Churchill was a supporter of eugenics, googled that - and found a link to the same site as yours on Galton!

https://eugenicsarchive.ca/discover/t....

(I deleted the second reference from my earlier post as it didn't contain enough relevant information.)

[Tam]

scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Eugenics was also quite popular in britain in the 1900-40 period, though it was carefully worded and labelled, Francis Galton was a key player and this link might be helpful:

https://..."

In the early days of eugenics, in Britain, many of the supporters of the idea were lefties of the day, just to counter the idea that it was particularly, somehow, a 'rightwing' plot. Marie Stopes was a well known supporter, with her birth control movement. Basically she wanted only the genetically fit to be able to breed. She had one child, a son, who fell in love with a woman who was very short-sighted. She was completely opposed to the idea that her son's partner might be the perfect partner for her son, to much family difficulties. The son and his partner had a very happy marriage it seems, though there was a fair degree of alienation from his mum, in the mix. George Bernard Shaw was another supporter of 'eugenics'... Views were not, necessarily, flowing across 'conventional' party lines, at least judged by todays standards...

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "MK wrote: "...what are the bookmakers' odds on Liz Truss being one of the shortest, if not the shortest PM in history?"

These odds are from October 11th, but they will have shortened considerably ..."

I think truss will cling on for a good few months sadly

Gerrymandering drives me mad, a great map in the nYRB a few years back shows how the Republicans slice states into almost pointless shapes to gain votes here and there, it has no place in a democracy, especially one that boasts so loudly about it 24/7.

[AB76]

Tam wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Eugenics was also quite popular in britain in the 1900-40 period, though it was carefully worded and labelled, Francis Galton was a key player and this link might b..."

i agree Tam, when i first came accross all this about 3 yrs ago, it was a revelation to see a left wing support for the ideals of eugenics

[MK]

scarletnoir wrote: "MK wrote: "...what are the bookmakers' odds on Liz Truss being one of the shortest, if not the shortest PM in history?"

These odds are from October 11th, but they will have shortened considerably ..."

Just the Repubican playbook repurposed as the ultra-left here is bound and determined to reallocate funds from those who have it to those who don't and just want it. This is being written by a middle-of-the-road Democrat who wishes that compromise were not such a dirty word.

PS - noticing 🚕s has become a habit. Be careful!

[MK]

Here's a combo for epistolary and/or spy lovers - A Private Spy: The Letters of John Le Carré . Thanks for this alert belong to Daunt Books and their Five Favorite Books email this week.

[scarletnoir]

Tam wrote: ".In the early days of eugenics, in Britain, many of the supporters of the idea were lefties of the day, just to counter the idea that it was particularly, somehow, a 'rightwing' plot."

Thanks for the reminder - I think that I knew that, but it certainly wasn't at the forefront of my mind. Useful info.

[scarletnoir]

MK wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Just the Repubican playbook repurposed (by) the ultra-left here..."

The problem with people bending the rules is that they tend to forget their dirty tricks can be borrowed by the "other side". (Thanks for the info.)

[scarletnoir]

Tam wrote: "I have an iceberg lettuce, bought yesterday from a popular supermarket, and sitting in the fridge... I will let you know...."

Haha! No need to waste your lettuce, though - I believe the Star will be providing daily update photos...

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "Gerrymandering drives me mad, a great map in the nYRB a few years back shows how the Republicans slice states into almost pointless shapes to gain votes here and there, it has no place in a democracy, especially one that boasts so loudly about it 24/7."

To an outsider like me, it looks as if two of the greatest problems with the USA lie with the electoral college (in France, the candidate who wins most votes becomes president - they have two rounds with only the top two standing in the second round). In 2000 and in 2016, the defeated candidate had more of the popular vote. The idea that each state elects exactly the same number of senators regardless of population also seems anti-democratic (I know there are historical reasons for this).

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Gerrymandering drives me mad, a great map in the nYRB a few years back shows how the Republicans slice states into almost pointless shapes to gain votes here and there, it has no place..."

Having read The Federalist Papers, an exceedingly dry but interesting read, the many honourable checks and balances the founding fathers laid are now coming up against the naked political partisan world of early 21stc american politics and the ludicrous idea of a supreme court with party affiliations

i no longer take the SC seriously, the intellectual, legalist veneer has been corrupted by personal views and opinions, the SC is basically now a wing of the Republican party and that should never have happened (come on down giblet faced OAP Mitch McConnell)

As for the popular elections, the college was another early idea that needs to be chucked and the popular vote needs to be the arbiter of victory. With Brainless Junior Bush in 2000 my suspicions were raised but right now its not fit for purpose

[Gpfr]

Pleased to hear there's a new Barbara Kingsolver: https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

[AB76]

Just attended an exhibition of art by Ukrainian artists in my local church, unexpectedly as i was just going to stroll about the old building and came accross the exhibition which is running for a month

I chatted to the host, Ukrainian artist Pavlo Kerestey, who i didnt realise was famous, till i got back and googled him. Some great insight into Ukrainian culture and art, all funds raised going to a meal kitchen in Lviv for displaced families. I donated some money and hope to pop back and chat with Pavlo, he was an interesting character. Ukraine authors Serhei Zhadan and Yevhegnia Belorousets were discussed and both have links to Pavlo and his art

[AB76]

My reading about Vargas a populist dictator who introduced real change to Brazil over three decades, leads me to explore his similarities and shared vision with Peronism in Argentina, which had a shorter spell in the limelight.

Unlike the cheap populism of modern times (Orban-Trump-Bolsanaro-Boris Johnson), there seemed to be a multitude of visions from these leaders and a concern for the masses beyond exploiting their emotions but Peron and Vargas were polarising figures and did some shady things, the question is, their legacy remains, i am not sure the modern crew will leave anything but scorn and broken promises

[MK]

It seems it's okay for me - as a non-member to attend. Perhaps some here would like to as well. Also notice there are past events online that might be of interest, too.

What It’s Like Being Rare Book Dealers in London
by Jessica Starr and Ben Maggs
Sunday, November 13, 12 pm (Pacific Standard (I'm thinking) Time)

https://www.bookclubofwashington.org/...

Note - I don't belong because I like nothing better than finding a book in decent condition at a minimal price.

[AB76]

Superb new BBC documentary on Russia 1985-99, based on loads of BBC clips and footage,:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...

[AB76]

all gone very quiet again, must have a look over at WWR and see if thats more active...no, its also very quiet

More interesting stuff from Orwell about the state of empire in 1939(especially its population which had no vote or no say) and democracy in the British army, written in Sept 1939 as the conscription for WW2 began

[Lljones]

Gpfr wrote: "Pleased to hear there's a new Barbara Kingsolver: https://www.theguardian.com/books/202..."
I've added it to my library hold list (72 holds ahead of me).

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "i no longer take the SC seriously, the intellectual, legalist veneer has been corrupted by personal views and opinions, the SC is basically now a wing of the Republican party..."

Indeed. I have always remembered a Letter from America by the late, great broadcaster Alistair Cook, in which Russian president Nikita Khrushchev gave a lesson in American law to a US Ambassador:

to try and melt the Cold War by a dramatic gesture President Eisenhower, who was then in his second term, invited Khrushchev not only to visit the United States but to be taken on a tour of it with Henry Cabot Lodge, the American ambassador to the United Nations, as host.

From Ambassador Lodge, a handsome New England Brahmin and former senator, several very salty memories were, shall I say, available. And one I'll never forget is the starting point of this talk.

It was on a special train going up along the beautiful coastline, the corniche, from Los Angeles to San Francisco that Mr Lodge and Mr Khrushchev got into a discussion - lively but never argumentative. It was difficult to argue with the burly, balding, fiery little Khrushchev because he cut short debate with a flat denunciation of your side and then changed the subject.

At some point Mr Khrushchev declared that after all there was little difference between the Soviet and the American systems of choosing a leader. Well the startled Mr Lodge wondered how so.

"Well," said Mr Khrushchev, "we choose one man, you choose one from two." A nice jokey point.

But Mr Lodge went on to explain the long, rough democratic road, the year-long party jostling, the primaries, the supremely democratic institution of the conventions and on and on till you reached the choice between those two. Khrushchev was unshaken. Then he remarked: "Your Congress makes your laws and who overturns them? Your Supreme Court."

I don't know if Mr Lodge was up to this but laughing effusively he said something like "Ah yes, but there are nine of them."

Point taken you'd think. Not at all.

Mr Khrushchev: "Nine old men to begin with but then they vote and sometimes wind up with five to four to maintain a law or overthrow it. So in the end your country is ruled by one judge, one American, not even elected. With us the general secretary puts everything up to the central committee."

Well with little time and not much deeper thinking this analogy could be shown to be preposterous. Still Krushchev's joke revealed a remarkable flash of insight into an element, a weakness if you like, of the Supreme Court, if not of the Constitution that created it.

It's an insight that's becoming uncomfortably clear to very many Americans who'd always retained a respect bordering on reverence for the court, until the outcome of the court's entanglement with the statutes of Florida and the decision, which by a single vote of the nine judges, threw the election to Governor Bush.

Let's start by reminding ourselves that a majority decision by the Supreme Court, more than any other institution, can shape the laws of the land for generations. Not by ever making or suggesting law but by the court's power to invalidate both state and federal laws.

Now what is Mr Khrushchev's wily complaint of government by one human being? It is about five-to-four decisions.

I should remark that in the 200 years of the court's existence the number of justices has gone from six to seven to 10. Once for all, in 1869, it was fixed at nine - a chief justice and eight associates.

And since then there's been a low rumble of complaint, especially from states which lost their appeal, that matters affecting every American could be decided by a majority of one among the nine.

Now, for many years this protest was muted because it was found that in a century and a half, since 1789, the court had adjudicated 26,000 public laws but only 11 acts of Congress had been found unconstitutional by a five-to-four majority.

I haven't been through the recent tally but I'm pretty sure they've been 11 five-to-four decisions in the past year or two. They have certainly increased alarmingly with the present court and the decision in the arrested mother case was a startler.

In the presidential election fiasco it was seen very late in the day that the national decision lay in the hands of one justice, of one woman: Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

Now why should it have fallen to this 70-year-old lawyer from Texas, the first woman ever to be appointed to the court, who started as a county attorney, moved up and up to being a trial judge and then went to the court of appeals? She was chosen by President Reagan as a sound, conservative Republican who yet had a fair sense of justice.

This may be a good time to say that every president of either party always says he will appoint justices to the court who are strict constructionists - that is, will interpret the Constitution literally without political bias or any attempt to reshape the law. And every president then appoints judges who share his political beliefs.

Franklin Roosevelt got so frustrated by the court's knocking down so many of his New Deal laws that he put up a serious proposal, which now seems inconceivable, to retire the old conservatives and appoint a pack of new, liberal justices. The court shot that one down too.

But so far as I know there's been only one outstandingly unrepentant constructionist. He was the late Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes.

Before helping, with his vote, to send a radical politician to jail in accordance with a law which Holmes himself thought was stupid and outdated, he wrote: "Forget justice, our business is to enforce the existing law and if it is a bad law let the Congress make a better one."

Unendingly, year after year, administration after administration, this conflict grinds on, the opposition party ceaselessly and correctly accusing the party in the White House of appointing political judges.

When President Reagan appointed Mrs O'Connor there was no audible Democratic outcry. From her record on the appeals court she was a moderate who could be counted on to vote most of the time with the conservatives.

But, as so often happens even to sophisticated presidents who should know their history, even a moderate can turn immoderate.

President Eisenhower made the very conservative governor of California chief Justice. But Chief Justice Warren turned into a comparatively flaming liberal and led the historic majority decision in 1954 to render unconstitutional the separation of blacks and whites.

"The worst damn fool mistake I ever made," Eisenhower moaned in his old age.

In the arrested mother case Mrs O'Connor voted for the woman against the majority.

Now Mrs O'Connor has made no sharp left turn, performed no theatrics. She's a patient quiet pertinacious lawyer, notable for wanting to find exact legal grounds for her decisions.

She's surprised us from time to time by switching and voting with the liberal four, thus disappointing the Christian right, for instance, by upholding the abortion law.

She became known to the court reporters as the switch vote. Little did anybody guess, as the Florida voting mess got messier, that the election would go to the Supreme Court. It had never happened before. The Constitution makes a state's power to select its electors absolute.

After a quiet but seething private debate in which the liberal justices demanded a recount of those two counties, and the conservatives pointed to the calendar and the Constitution's time limit on a count, the court went into a sort of restrained panic.

Mrs O'Connor thought things over, decided for once not to switch and voted 'no more counting' - thus making Mr Khrushchev's monstrously absurd point that the president of the United States need not be elected by the people but might be selected by one American, one justice.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/arti...

I've referred to this talk before, because I'm not sure how well the point is (or maybe was) understood... maybe it's becoming ever more visible now that the SC has been stacked with right-wing republicans by Trump.

It's also interesting that at that time the Russian president had such a firm grasp of American systems; I doubt that the reverse would have been the case. (I also doubt that Putin knows, or cares, much about how democracies work - or don't.)

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "i no longer take the SC seriously, the intellectual, legalist veneer has been corrupted by personal views and opinions, the SC is basically now a wing of the Republican party..."

Inde..."

Putin did comment that Liz Truss had been elected by 80,000 right wing party members rather than her electorate of around 40 million, i hate to concede anything to him, but he had a point

[giveusaclue]

AB76 wrote:"Putin did comment that Liz Truss had been elected by 80,000 right wing party members rather than her electorate of around 40 million, i hate to concede anything to him, but he had a point "


Interesting point AB but then in the UK opponents of the PM don't tend to get defenestrated! And how do you know that all 80,000 were" right wing." 😀 Overall the party members and MPs vote for the Tory leader, and it could be argued that they are more likely to know the individuals than the general public. On the other hand we have the Labour party whose leader is elected largely at the behest of the unions (or thier leaders) who as at 2021 numbered around 6.5m of the population, around 10%. I am more than happy to be corrected if I have my facts wrong.

But do we want a situation as in the US where the PM does not have a majority in the House, as I believe happened with Obama and is now happening with Biden? Again I am happy to be corrected. As it is I have to say that, when I look around the front benches on either side of the House, there isn't a single person who fills me with much confidence or for whom I feel much respect.

Back on topic I have just started to read Essex Dogs

Having read all his non-fiction books, and enjoyed them, I am interested to know how he fares with fiction. Not very far into the book so it is a bit early to judge. Was a bit worried when I saw that one of the titular heroes, a ruffian in 1346, nicknamed Loveday!

[MK]

I felt quite satified with myself yesterday after I finished shelving mystery paperbacks on three smallish bookcases in my short hallway. Then I made the mistake of a wander around looking to see if there were any outliers. A mistake for sure!

But then we are still doing forest fires - I can't believe it is mid-October and we've had NO rain yet - which means I stay inside on the really bad days. If we go from bad to worse, I'll just keep on with getting the shelves organized. I hope to post -MISSION COMPLETED soon.

[giveusaclue]

MK wrote: "I felt quite satified with myself yesterday after I finished shelving mystery paperbacks on three smallish bookcases in my short hallway. Then I made the mistake of a wander around looking to see i..."

But then you will get more books...........

[AB76]

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote:"Putin did comment that Liz Truss had been elected by 80,000 right wing party members rather than her electorate of around 40 million, i hate to concede anything to him, but he had a poi..."

i would welcome a labour government under Sir Keir, even if i always vote locally in GE(ie...for the best candidate in my area, not the party, though i've never voted tory)

The Tories are as toxic as they were in 1997, when they were utterly decimated in that GE