Euphoria - Chapters 01-05 (March 2015)

[Violet]

This is the thread to discuss the opening five chapters.

[Violet]

I've only read twenty pages or so but already have the feeling I'm really going to enjoy this. I don't think there's going to be any wizardry or groundbreaking technique to this novel. Rather that it will be a riveting story told by a very accomplished writer with a passion for her subject and a very easy and poised prose style.

[Casceil]

I'm rereading it. In the opening chapters we get some shifts in point of view, and I found that a little tricky to follow the first time I read the book. This time I was able to follow it more easily. I really enjoyed the way Bankson is introduced. The characters--Bankson, Nell and Fen--are all such strong, well-developed characters. On a reread it is fun to go back and meet them again from the beginning.

[Caroline]

I'm fairly far ahead now so don't want to say too much in case I accidentally spoil anything. I agree with Casceil that the initial shifts in points of view were a bit tricky to follow. It gets much easier to figure out as the book goes along. I also really like the introductions to each character, though can't say I started off as a huge fan of Fen's. I didn't start off fully loving the book but think it flows well and is easy to get through, which I'm enjoying after reading some much heavier books.

[Violet]

Fen's seduction technique certainly leaves something to be desired!
I too get the sense this is going to be a relatively light but enjoyable read.

[Peter]

I don't think much of Fen so far. Not that I think he'd care if he knew -- Fen appears to think well enough of himself that he doesn't need much of anyone else's approval.

[Tome Reader]

The pages just flew by. This is an easy read which I appreciate since I am in the middle of reading "Atonement."

Fen. Ugh. What a catch.

King's writing does flow naturally despite the weird shift from 3rd to first person. I am never a fan of that, but I will let it slide.

[Violet]

Aren't the real tribes under scrutiny here men and women? But I feel King could have been a little more subtle and certainly more probing with this anthropological irony. It is a very light and breezy read but is it perhaps a little too light and breezy? I'm hoping for more depth as the novel progresses, for the sifting down into deeper layers of meaning. Or something more than a love triangle in an exotic location at the advent of a world war which does make you think King wasn't unaware of the colossal commercial success of The English Patient and Out of Africa - except her writing unfortunately isn't in the same class as Ondaatje or Blixen.

[Ben]

Yep, this is a very easy read. Strikes me as more accomplished than inspired. High end commercial fiction. Yet to come across a memorable sentence. I keep wishing Shirley Hazzard had written this novel! I'm convinced Amis' Zone of Interest would have sparked a much more lively discussion though I understand the allure sometimes of an easy enjoyable escapist read.

[Violet]

I suspect Amis would have given the males the lot more to talk about. It's no longer fashionable to talk about differences between men and women but I noticed on the Bone Clocks discussion how often the men would venture beyond the text of the novel, find leads that led them to discuss all manner of neighbouring subjects. In a nutshell, Ian on divinity issues and the romantic poets, Peter on politics, Martin on the art of writing itself, Terry on the nature of artists. We women stayed more within the boundaries of the text itself. Is it therefore possible that, speaking generally, men and women have different requirements of the novel? And is Euphoria perhaps shaping up to be essentially a women's novel? (That to me would be an indictment because any truly good novel has to have a universal charge.)

[Lily]

Violet wrote: "In a nutshell, Ian on divinity issues and the romantic poets, Peter on politics, Martin on the art of writing itself, Terry on the nature of artists. We women stayed more within the boundaries of the text itself...."

Violet -- I'd be wary of generalizing from such a small sample. I certainly find myself engaged in book discussions that trigger roaming the world -- book discussions that are usually comprised of women only.

[Violet]

It was a leading question rather than a statement, Lily! I just have the sense Euphoria isn't going to inspire the rich and fascinating breadth of conversation that The Bone Clocks did and I'm trying to understand why since most people didn't really love TBC.

[Casceil]

First, don't write this book off too quickly as just "light and breezy." It builds. To answer Violet's question about why books people like sometimes inspire less discussion than books they "don't really love," like TBC, we've seen this before. This group is very critical by nature, and we are quick to point out perceived flaws or things that don't seem to work quite right. This group had an extremely lively discussion of The Circle, though few people actually liked it and most of us considered it seriously flawed. There is no strong correlation between the quality of a book and how much discussion it generates. Books that try to do something interesting and different particularly generate discussion when they are only partially successful, or difficult to interpret, like The Islanders.

[Violet]

Really good point about discussions sometimes being more lively when there are more perceived flaws to pick apart, Casceil. I had a hard time with The Circle too. Euphoria so far doesn't really have flaws though perhaps it doesn't aim quite as high as i had hoped. But it's really good to know it builds.

[Peter]

I do think it is important to pay attention to the anthropology in this book, and what the book is saying about the practice of anthropology. If you look at the science as simply background color to a novel of character, I think you will miss an important layer of the story.

[Violet]

I was hoping that would be the case, Peter. In the first five chapters there could be the suspicion that anthropology is just going to be used as an exotic backdrop for little more than another done-to-death love triangle.

[Casceil]

Communication--how people communicate with and without words--is a major theme in the book.

[Violet]

Thanks for the word up, Casceil. That sounds fascinating. Didn't Euphoria win a prestige award? That certainly would belie Ben's suspicion that it's merely escapist commercial fiction. I'm really looking forward to another reading session tonight.

[Tome Reader]

Violet, it won the 2014 Kirkus prize.

[Lily]

Euphoria also made The New York Times Book Review's list of "The 10 Best Books of 2014."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/boo...

In addition, Euphoria is a finalist for the 2015 National Book Critics Award. (The winner of that award will be announced March 12.) See https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... or, more directly, http://bookcritics.org/blog/archive/n...

[Terry]

I'm very much enjoying this. I'm coming to it after reading Dust by Yvonne Adhiambo Owuor, which is a book in which there were many memorable and achingly beautiful sentences, and yet it was very hard going and hard to work out what was going on all the time. I do think there's a (very high) place for writing which is straightforward or even workmanlike on the sentence level (although I'd contend that King's prose is good, even if not dazzling), but in which the relationships and observations being described in larger chunks (even at the whole book level) is way more than the sum of these parts.

I'm very much enjoying it so far (end of Chapter 5). I think the simplicity of the writing allows her to easily explore and hint at relationships and feelings, in undercurrents and between the lines. Even had I not known that this was about a love triangle, I would already be starting to wonder about Bankson and Nell, without being easily able to point to particular lines to say why.

I love Nell's character; how she observes things, how she solves problems, how she doesn't hesitate. She seems easier in Bankson's company than in Fen's but it's hard at this stage to know whether that's Bankson or 'a male (or even just a person) other than her husband'. I prefer her when Fen is asleep/not part of the conversation. I think it's very deft how King has drawn this in easy lines, making me see some of the complexities of a marriage and of the relationships involved very quickly.

I love her list of possibilities as to why the mango leaves are oddly distributed; I felt that a vista had opened up in just a few lines for me -- a whole backstory of the experience and knowledge and insight gained in the field and in books, laid out in a short list. Again, great economy and great evocation without great effort.

I also loved the shows of behaviour that showed character, like making lists of the characteristics of white people in the habitual way used on 'natives'.

[Violet]

Great Post, Terry. The arrangement of the mango leaves passage was a brilliant bit of dialogue – gave us an intimate peek into both Nell’s secret and professional life and, like you said, an example of the masterful economy with which King opens up complex vistas.

I think there’s an element of everyone in the novel becoming a representative of his/her tribe – whether the tribe is nationality or sex. I liked Bankson’s observation about the American impatience with social formality. The drawing of another line, as Terry put it. And his emotional enslavement to patriarchal despotism is fascinating too. The residue of Victorianism in a world that is about to dramatically change. The observers are being observed. And I see what Casceil means about communication – its subjective nature is very much highlighted early in chapter six. King is asking questions about the credibility of anthropology as a science since it is all about communication between the observer and the observed - and this is what every good novelist does, starts off asking crucial questions about the themes the novel is to investigate.

[Terry]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the stuff about observed versus involved. It's fairly straightforward explanation of two positions, but it just works in the context, and it's so fundamental to do much more than just anthropology that it's always great to hear and think about again.

[Terry]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the stuff about observed versus involved. It's fairly straightforward explanation of two positions, but it just works in the context, and it's so fundamental to do much more than just anthropology that it's always great to hear and think about again.

[Lily]

Caroline wrote: "...I didn't start off fully loving the book but think it flows well and is easy to get through, which I'm enjoying after reading some much heavier books...."

I haven't either (started off fully loving the book), but like Tome, serendipity of its availability seems to be drawing me into reading it now, along with the comments of those of you who have posted so far. (A check of our local library had indicated a copy available and it still was when stopped by while returning home from lunch in the midst of yesterday's snowstorm.)

I traveled the first five chapters last night and this morning -- not a book that is calling me to devour it as An Unnecessary Woman did last week, but still so far an engaging setup.

Tome @7: King's writing does flow naturally despite the weird shift from 3rd to first person....

I felt similarly. It was as if the writer had some pieces that she had written that she chose to (post-modern like) juggle together rather than to do the work of rewriting. Will what she did seem effective in the overall scheme of the unfolding? I'm willing to revisit.

I liked the words used to reveal Bankson's family to us. I was touched by the elegy to his brother John. We seem to be seeing a fair amount on the long term side effects of the losses of war. To me, this tidbit of the overall story was well done.

Does anyone know if there is a real-life parallel about the death of Martin -- e.g., was it a highly publicized news event? ("..the most public suicide in English history..." p31 hyperbole or actuality or metaphor?)

Even as difficult as Bankson's parents seem, each in their particular way, we are given a nuanced, almost (not quite) sympathetic sense of why they are as they are.

The early scene at the Down-Under Christmas party (p12) was fun to juxtaposition with The Luminaries -- the presence and posturing of the various types of "invaders" in contrast with the "natives." (Recently finished Catton for a f2f group.)

[Peter]

Lily wrote: "Does anyone know if there is a real-life parallel about the death of Martin -- e.g., was it a highly publicized news event?"

Apparently so. Here's a link to the Wikipedia page for Gregory Bateson, on who Andrew Bankson was based.

[Lily]

A couple of you have intimated that some of King's prose seems a bit workman-like. That was my reaction to the descriptive information-packed paragraph that opened chapter 5. Then, the second paragraph opened with this sliver of poetry:

"The thin moon gave the river a thin silver skin...."

[Terry]

I actually like the person 'shifts'; I think they're a spot of very deliberate flair. The story is first person, essentially, but he begins with scenes for which he was not present. It's all him recounting, years later, and although he's writing it, always using 'I' where appropriate, is about her, and he needs to recount things that happened when he wasn't present. I particularly like the part at the very end of chapter one where he says that she sees a figure and then tells it from his point of view; he's the figure. On reflection is a lovely switch. I admit it took me a little effort to get what she was doing, but I think it really hands together, and other devices in later chapters complement this idea.

[Lily]

Terry wrote: "...I particularly like the part at the very end of chapter one where he says that she sees a figure and then tells it from his point of view; he's the figure...."

We are also given an ominous repeat of foreshadowing?

P.1 "He had broken her glasses by then..."

End of chapter: "Without her glasses...."

[Violet]

The thin moon gave the river a thin silver skin...."
Yes! That cranked up my interest too.

[Jane from B.C.]

I really felt that the shift from third to first person worked well in the opening chapter. It was a bit of a jolt when I read that final paragraph that flipped to the first person narrative. I felt it was effective and dramatic. I had an immediate 'ah-ha' moment that this story was not going to be told by some omnipotent third person narrator, but rather by one of the characters.

[Violet]

Yeah, I thought it was clever how she brought a blur into high definition focus, the impersonal into the intimately personal. Great way to switch narrative pov. I was more worried she was going to continually shift back and forth but that doesn't appear to be the case.

[Violet]

A minor query: did teabags and charity shops exists in the 1930s? Both allusions jumped me out of the narrative a bit. Not that I'm a stickler for absolute historical accuracy. Just curious.

[Tome Reader]

Reading some reviews, the narratives shifts from time to time. I also suspect the anthropology will serve as an allegory so I need to pay attention.

Also, interesting note. I've been curious about the cover art since I got my copy. It's garish yet beautiful. I had no idea what it was or its significance to the book.

Come to find out, the cover art is the trunk of the Rainbow Gum tree. A Google search'll show you. Pretty cool!

[Casceil]

Yes, there is a description in the text of a rainbow gum tree, and when I reached that, I realized that must be the source for the cover.

[Lily]

Peter wrote: "Lily wrote: "Does anyone know if there is a real-life parallel about the death of Martin -- e.g., was it a highly publicized news event?"

Apparently so. Here's a link to the Wikipedia page for Gr..."

Thx, Peter. I still hesitate a bit at the possible hyperbole of "..the most public suicide in English history..." -- that big, or in Andrew's perspective at the time? How to read it.

[Peter]

As far as tea bags and charity shops in 1935: tea bags were reasonably common in America, but rare in the UK; charity shops existed then, but were a lot less common than they are today (they got a big boost in WW2, and then again in the 60's with growth of consumer culture).

[Lily]

Tome Reader wrote: "Come to find out, the cover art is the trunk of the Rainbow Gum tree. A Google search'll show you. Pretty cool! ..."

When I saw the source, I realized it was foreshadowed nicely early: "...The gum tree took up a good bit of room. Nell stroked it. Its bark had shed and the trunk was smooth and streaked with orange and bright green and indigo. It wouldn't have been the first rainbow gum she'd encountered, but it was a striking specimen. She ran her palm down a swath of blue. I had the odd feeling that they were communicating, as if I had just introduced her to an old friend and they were already getting on well....: p41

Or as if Nell used her anthropological skills with the tree?

[Violet]

Thanks Peter for answering my query.

[Lily]

Lily wrote: (from the text) "...I had the odd feeling that they were communicating, as if I had just introduced her to an old friend and they were already getting on well..."

The tree could also be considered a metaphor for the "colorful" immediate attraction between Andrew and Nell.

From the review with Clare Morin (Link @11, https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

"The first time I meet Lily King, it's early February and snow is falling on the streets of Portland, Maine, in the United States. It's warm in the Speckled Axe café, where a few bearded hipsters are staring into their laptops.

"Despite the four foot-high snow drifts outside, when King walks in she's a vision of tropical sunlight: dressed in a multicoloured jumper with an orange scarf around her neck. Her eyes are so blue they pull you in like the tide.
....
"She shows me the novel's cover design on her laptop: streaks of orange, blue and green that perfectly match her outfit.

"'It's from the rainbow gum tree in New Guinea,' she says.

"The island of New Guinea lies in the southwest Pacific, in the warm waters north of Australia. It's the second-largest island in the world after Greenland and is today divided into Papua New Guinea on the eastern side, and the Indonesian provinces of Papua and West Papua on the west.

"Since the 16th century, the island has been fought over by colonists from the Netherlands, Portugal and Britain looking to secure its rich deposits of oil, copper and gold. It has also offered fertile grounds to anthropologists. Tribes have existed here for more than 40,000 years and, because of its towering mountains, endlessly snaking rivers and lack of infrastructure, a rich diversity of languages and tribal customs abound.

"New Guinea was a frontier for Western anthropology in the early part of the 20th century...."

[Lily]

@20Lily wrote: "In addition, Euphoria is a finalist for the 2015 National Book Critics Award. (The winner of that award will be announced March 12.)..."

The NBCA readings are tonight in NYC: http://bookcritics.org/calendar/event...

The award presentation is tomorrow night. I don't know whether it can be watched online (as the National Book Award has provided at least the past two years). http://bookcritics.org/calendar/event...

A very brief interview with Lily King is here: http://bookcritics.org/

Here is a longer version: http://newschoolwriting.org/nbcc-fict... (I recommend reading it, at least if you have finished the novel.)

[LindaJ^]

Got through Chapter 7 today and am enjoying this much more than Jerusalem, which I finished last night. As many have commented, the jump from third to first person was a bit startling and had my backing up to be sure I hadn't missed something. But as I continued, it made sense and it worked.

Have to say that Fen is not someone I'd want to be married to!

I'm enjoying the book so far and glad to be reading it, finally!

[Violet]

Unlike The Bone Clocks, Euphoria didn't appear to be a novel that provoked much discussion until people finished it, Linda. Your first impressions pretty much harmonise with everyone's. It'll be interesting to see what you think of some of the issues that were eventually either praised or frowned upon.