2022 Booker Shortlist Discussion

[Paul]

Yes the Booker judges usually make their decision that day - so if it signals anything it might be the wish of the Twitter admin.

[WndyJW]

I think the Amgash trilogy is even better on audio.

Is Anna Friel an actor?

[Robert]

WndyJW wrote: "I think the Amgash trilogy is even better on audio.

Is Anna Friel an actor?"

Yup - But I only became conscious of her when I watched Pushing Daisies ten years ago

[Hugh, Active moderator]

Anna Friel came to fame in the long gone Channel 4 soap Brookside, largely thanks to a lesbian kiss...

[Emmeline]

For a literary tie-in, she was in the adaptation of Dickens' Our Mutual Friend from the ... late '90s I think?

I'd forgotten about Pushing Daisies!

[Mohamed]

David wrote: "Mohamed is the best sleuth in the group. It seems like a sign but perhaps too early. Do the Booker judges usually make their decision right before the announcement?"

Thanks Dave! it is probably does not mean anything at all, but we will see this Monday

[Di]

Any UK/London Mookse & Gripers going to the Waterstones Shortlist readings at The Shaw Theatre tomorrow?

I can't, but I might try to catch the live stream:
www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/waterstones-pr...

[Paul]

I can’t unfortunately. Not sure if I will do the livestream as the highlight of these things tends to be meeting the author’s in person for a book signing as one usually gets a chance for a quick chat.

Albeit not sure if those will necessarily happen with Covid.

[Di]

Di wrote: "Any UK/London Mookse & Gripers going to the Waterstones Shortlist readings at The Shaw Theatre tomorrow?

I can't, but I might try to catch the live stream:
www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/waterstones-prese..."

-----
Here's the link to the event recording, in case anyone is interested (but I don't know how long it will be left up for).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72mlD...

[Cindy]

Thanks so much for posting! I'll watch this later tonight.

[David]

That was a very nice event.

[Di]

David wrote: "That was a very nice event."

It was, wasn't it. Interesting to see the different levels of engagement from the authors. I couldn't help but wonder who might make the best Booker author from a future marketing perspective... but of course, that's not really the point!

[David]

What was your sense in that regard?

[Paul]

And who won on the engagement stakes?

[David]

I was impressed by all the authors, albeit for different reasons. I thought it was very powerful that Percival Everett read from the list of names.

[WndyJW]

I didn’t know what the “plangency of memory” meant either, I had to look it up.

That was great, thanks for posting that Di.

It was very moving when Percival Everrett read the list of lynching victims, even more so when he said that he received a call from a reader telling him that David Walker’s wife was Annie Walker and they were lynched with their 4 children.

Listening to Percival Everett has changed my mind about The Trees. It’s interesting that he didn’t see it as funny, but saw it more as irony.

[Di]

David wrote: "What was your sense in that regard?"

Yes, Everett reading the names was powerful and uncomfortable and he answered his questions well.

Keegan initially seemed unimpressed by the interviewer (perhaps feeling unwell?) but would probably make for some interesting discussions.

Bulawayo seemed quite nervous and reticent and possibly the most difficult to draw out in interview.

Karunatilaka was interesting and eloquent.

Strout felt like a safe pair of hands, and seemed the popular choice of the local audience at this event?

Garner was charming but I would worry about his health if he were required to undertake a busy year of engagements as the Booker winner!

[WndyJW]

It did seem like Keegan was uncomfortable at first, got more comfortable with the question and answer section. I think she could have chosen a better passage to read, but thought it was endearing when she said, “stop reading,” she must have made herself a note than read it out loud.

[Emmeline]

WndyJW wrote: "It did seem like Keegan was uncomfortable at first, got more comfortable with the question and answer section. I think she could have chosen a better passage to read, but thought it was endearing w..."

Keegan is just a dreadful interview in general though! I'm starting to feel sorry for her, she seems like a quiet person who would much rather be at her desk.

[BookerMT2]

Been away for a while so missed out on all these comments. having re-read a couple and finished the longlist from my point of view I think the judges have succeeded in producing perhaps the weakest shortlist they could have managed to get from the longlist they chose.
Treacle Walker: Feels a bit like a lifetime achievement award.
Oh William: If it wins would be a bit of a Hotel Du Lac moment.
Small things. I liked but frankly it is a short story though quite a good one.
The Trees; For me by far the weakest novel on the list.
Seven Moons: Another I liked though it takes a while to get going and isn't a patch on his first novel.
Glory: Would be my choice. For me this is head and shoulders above all the others. perhaps the only serious literary novel left in the running.

I do think it is wide open as to who wins. There's an argument to be made in favour of them all

[Paul]

For me Treacle Walker is head and shoulders the best book here and would truly be a Booker winner for the ages.

But I'd be ad, if not more, delighted to see Small Things win for its exquisite craft and the message it would send to authors as to how to write a book - polish your prose until only what is necessary remains. It isn't a short story - it's a perfect length novel.

As a famous author once said: "Every tome has a novel inside it and it is the task of the author to discover it. I saw the novel in the tome and carved until I set it free."

And for that reason I'd be disappointed in literary terms to see Seven Moons (particularly) or Glory win as they are both too padded - 2 moons would have been plenty. But politically in terms of subject matter each deserves it place.

But if the judges want a politically resonant book The Trees would be a great choice, and would be fantastic for Influx Press.

Which leaves Oh William, which surely can't win, can it? But then it surely couldn't have made the shortlist.

[Cindy]

I've been thinking about this shortlist a lot in the lead-up to the winner announcement tomorrow. I do think that we were treated to one of the strongest longlists we've had in recent years and then, relatively speaking, quite a weak shortlist. It's interesting how varied our views have been about the six books (a quick look at the individual shortlist rankings confirms this). I can't help but think of what a richer conversation we might be having if The Colony and Maps were on the shortlist, but I know not everyone felt as strongly about those two novels as I did.

My personal preference, from power of storytelling and story, would be for The Trees. I heard that Treacle Walker is the bookies' favorite. True? That one seems to be quite a marmite book here (and elsewhere) but speaking personally again, I would find that a disappointing result and much more a lifetime achievement award than an award for the "finest fiction." My gut tells me that Seven Moons will win, just because it feels the most Bookerish to me (probably because I really did not like Glory). I liked Seven Moons, but I think its flaws are glaring and so it's hard to feel very enthusiastic about it as the winning choice.

Eric Karl Anderson posted his winner prediction video a few days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9fee...

[Emmeline]

I’ve done my usual random sampling of long and shortlist so probably not qualified to comment, but I will anyway ;-). I’m team Garner. In some ways I think Everett’s is the better book and I’ll be happy if it wins, But it’s so American and I’m one of those who would have preferred the Booker not to admit Americans. Glory I can see a good argument for, though I’ve only read a bit. Seven Moons I think sends a rather strange message about having to re-edit colonial literature before it can be accepted in the West. Small Things IS a short story, and I’ve read better this year.

[Lee]

For me it’s The Trees all the way, for its hugely successful genre mashups, storytelling, topical importance, and recognition of Everett himself. My only qualm is that it is so very American, but they’ve let the barbarians in the gates and what’s done is done. It deserves the win.

I’m with Paul in that I’d also be very pleased to see Small Things win, it’s a brilliant little novel in so many ways. And I identify so much with Keegan being uncomfortable with in person interviews, much preferring the time and solitude to craft written missives instead, so I’d be very happy for her. I also just read her collection of short stories, Antarctica, and it was brilliant as well.

Seven Moons is impressive in many ways but too baggy and loose with its internal framework for me to see it as a winner. Treacle Walker would feel like an odd winner to me but it is very English. I’ve gone back to Glory and am trying to finish it today but, man, the animals thing, the mals and femals and dogs shooting guns and goats flying airplanes, ugh, like nails on a chalkboard. And I don’t even understand what Oh, William is doing here, so. That’s not true really, I understand a lot of readers love Strout, and when they’ve already given a Booker to Atwood for The Testaments, it’s possible.

[WndyJW]

Shehan Karunatilaka said in the readings the other night that he wanted to write a novel as concise as Small Things Like These, but had too many things to say, he even edited out more brutal scenes.

My feelings towards The Trees has softened a bit, but I still don’t think it was the best book, and I am an American who doesn’t think America should have been invited into the Booker. (I would rather we were included in the Women’s Prize since we don’t have a women’s prize, although if we did I would want it to award the best book by a woman, not a pu pu platter of books by women.)

I agree about Strout, great writer and the books grew on me the more I read, but Oh, William is not the best of Strout’s books and just doesn’t feel Bookerish to me. But as you say Lee, after the awful co-win of the not good The Testaments anything can happen.

At this point I don’t have a favorite among the shortlist. I liked them all for different reasons, it’s apples to oranges for me so hard to choose a winner.

I chuckled when Eric Karl Anderson asked his question: Karunatilaka told Eric he enjoyed his YouTube channel, then Gaby Wood asked if it was Simon Savidge that had asked the question. The book world is so much wider and more connected than it was 20 yrs ago when I had to search for book recommendations and other readers.

Our group has Small Things Like These or The Trees winning. What do the bookies say now?

[Stephen]

I read Treacle Walker yesterday. Haven't really a Scooby regarding what was going on but found it compelling and can see it leading to lots of interesting conversation.
I have only managed the three shorter books on the shortlist and find myself liking this the most for its innovation. I thought Small Things Like These was perfect in its precise prose. Oh William! while acknowledging it was well written left me asking why it was on the shortlist at all.
I can't comment on the longer half of the shortlist. So , I'd be happy with either Small things or Treacle Walker but hoping for Treacle Walker and Alan Garner.

[WndyJW]

For anyone who wants a deeper dive into Treacle Walker it might be worth creating an Instagram account and following footnotes.and.tangents he has posted dozens of really delightful, insightful posts, chapter by chapter, about all the myths and symbols in TW complete with further background info and cool pictures.

I just started following him, but he seems to post a lot of background info about the books he reads.

[Paul]

Marmite is a good description of Treacle Walker - much loved in England and not so much elsewhere. Story in the papers this weekend that the Government might drop the English language and history test for those applying for UK citizenship and make them eat a whole jar of marmite instead.

That sounds interesting on footnotes.and.tangents.

[Lee]

Looking only at this groups first place votes in the shortlist rankings I roughly come up with the following implied odds:

2-1, Small Things Like These
3-1, The Trees
5-1, The Seven Moons of Maali Almeida
6-1, Glory
15-2, Treacle Walker
100-1, Oh, William (actually has no first place votes out of about 50)

Flip that upside down and you basically have the current bookmaker odds.

[Paul]

WndyJW wrote: "For anyone who wants a deeper dive into Treacle Walker it might be worth creating an Instagram account and following footnotes.and.tangents he has posted dozens of really delightful, insightful pos..."

The Instagram account itself draws on this (which is a little less annoying than instagram to read - it really is not a website designed to convey useful information as opposed to pictures):
http://alangarner.atspace.org/linkstw...

When you read that you realise how Treacle Walker really does have more in it than most books multiples of the length. It isn't so much a lifetime achievement award if it wins (as Attwood's joint win was) but more all of the wisdom and learning of a lifetime compressed into a small number of pages.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

I have just updated the league tables, but I can't guarantee I can do it again before the announcement. No clear favourite!

[Lou]

Paul wrote: "Marmite is a good description of Treacle Walker - much loved in England and not so much elsewhere. Story in the papers this weekend that the Government might drop the English language and history t..."

Funny. Like Vegemite for Australians. My husband (au) has a daily Facebook spar with my uncle (UK) on marmite v vegemite.

If TW wins I’ll commit to a reread to see what I missed.

Oh William was my favourite (pre Booker nomination) but Lucy by the Sea is fabulous and although part of Amgash series could easily be stand alone. 2023!

[Gwendolyn]

Does anyone have the details on how we can watch the announcement virtually? I usually like to do that if the timing works.

[David]

I have no idea who the winner will be. I'd be mildly surprised if it's the Strout, simply because it's in the middle of a series, but I still wouldn't be shocked if it won. The other five seem like very plausible winners based on statements from the judges and everything else I've seen.

Of course, once the winner is announced, it will all feel inevitable.

[Di]

Gwendolyn wrote: "Does anyone have the details on how we can watch the announcement virtually? I usually like to do that if the timing works."

Live on Radio 4 and BBC Sounds apparently (dependent on where you are in the world though, I guess!)

https://thebookerprizes.com/the-booke...

BBC Sounds link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001...

[Lee]

My guess is they pick Seven Moons.

[Di]

I'm predicting it will be The Trees.

[Gwendolyn]

Di wrote: "Gwendolyn wrote: "Does anyone have the details on how we can watch the announcement virtually? I usually like to do that if the timing works."

Live on Radio 4 and BBC Sounds apparently (dependent ..."

Thanks for the details, Di!

[Marc]

Just a quick thanks to this group for inspiring me to tackle some of the long/short lists this year. It's not something I've ever attempted before (I got through 6 from the longlist; 3 of which made the shortlist). It's impressive that you all manage to read all of these books prior to the prize announcement and amidst reading other books for pleasure or other prizes at the same time.

I hope The Trees wins. I think Glory will get the award (just a gut reaction; not based on any odds or what judges have said).

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Influx seem to have struggled at both the longlist and shortlist stage to make books available but I would think a Booker win given they have his back catalogue also must help them. At the least they could presumably sell on the rights? Galley Beggar struggled with Ducks, Newburyport due to the bankruptcy of The Book People.

[David]

Do you have a final prediction, GY? I like how you put it on your instagram post.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

After today's updates The Trees is top of three of the four tables, but they are all quite tight.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Last time I judged a prize (with Paul and Neil) Influx won so maybe that’s an omen for tonight.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

David wrote: "Do you have a final prediction, GY? I like how you put it on your instagram post."

Heart says Small Things Like These or Treacle
Walker
Head says The Trees
Gut says Seven Moons or Glory
Nothing in me says Oh William

[Cindy]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "David wrote: "Do you have a final prediction, GY? I like how you put it on your instagram post."

Heart says Small Things Like These or Treacle
Walker
Head says The Trees
Gut says Seven Moons or G..."

All of that makes sense to me.

[David]

Cindy wrote: "All of that makes sense to me."

Me too.

[Mohamed]

GY, we are almost alike in this:
Heart says Small Things Like These
Head says The Trees
Gut says Treakle walker or Seven Moons
and I would be shocked if Oh Willaims wins! I do not care about Glory, it is normal book that i am living everyday.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Due to everything going on in the Uk (and let us try to stay clear of discussing politics here) the BBC News and BBC World News are no longer broadcasting the winner announcement live. That’s a real shame.

[Cindy]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Due to everything going on in the Uk (and let us try to stay clear of discussing politics here) the BBC News and BBC World News are no longer broadcasting the winner announcement live. That’s a rea..."

Oh that really is (although to be fair, there is a lot going on). Will the Radio 4 Front Row programme still have it on live?

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Hearing rumours from sources that taking inspiration from Jeremy Hunt the Booker judges will admit their mistakes and announce a U Turn.

So I think it’s between The Colony and Maps of Our Spectacular Bodies.