"Winter's Orbit" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*

[SFFBC, Ancillary Mod]

A few questions to get us started:

1. What did you think of the plot?
2. What did you think of the central relationships?
3. What did you think of the political structure?
4. What worked or didn't for you?
5. Overall thoughts?

Non-spoiler thread here: First impressions

[Kaia]

I enjoyed this book overall, and it was a fun read, for the most part.

I really liked the relationship between Jainen and Kiem, and I enjoyed the parts where they were doing things together most of all. (I also loved Bel.) Being in Jainen's head during his narrated parts became a little tedious for me, though, due to his constant self-criticism and negativity. It was believable, given the circumstances, but also wasn't fun to read over and over, especially knowing how Kiem and others felt about him was the opposite of what Jainen thought.

I found the political structure believable, in that I didn't question what was happening, but I also wasn't that invested in it. It made for an interesting mystery, but I was most invested in the characters.

[HeyT]

I kind of wish there was another episode (book) about my new space gay boyfriends because I want to see what they can do now that they've made each other better people through each other.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

HeyT wrote: "I kind of wish there was another episode (book) about my new space gay boyfriends because I want to see what they can do now that they've made each other better people through each other."

<3 <3 love people lifting their partners up!

[Leslie]

I just finished it and really enjoyed it. The relationship was good to follow, especially as it mixed with the political intrigue. I agree with Kaia on the negative self-talk Jainan seemed to constantly battle, but it becomes more understandable later in the book when you find out how Taam treated him. I also think Kiem was guilty of that self-negativity as well but we are more understanding of it from the beginning because of his "screw-up" behavior history.
@HeyT, I also wish they had a follow up too (too bad the next Maxwell novel is with a different set of characters in a different environment), since now they've proved to be a kick-ass team along with Bel. Or maybe one exploring a story with maybe Bel as the central character, given her interesting backstory.

[aPriL does feral sometimes]

I was totally delighted by the novel’s plot and characters! Kiem needed to grow up and Jainen needed help. The plot allowed them both to change and have a happy ending. I loved it! Bel in particular was a very cool character.

[Jen]

I am so frustrated with this book. It took over half of the book for them to tell each other they’re attracted to each other.. plots based on miscommunication are so flippin’ frustrating to me, just say what you feel already. I can understand that there are cultural differences to be navigated as well as a power differential but come on, use your words. I just read the part where Kiem gets in Jainan’s face about how Taam abused him and that’s NOT how to have that conversation. Come on guys, get it together. They only just got on the same page with liking each other and now there’s a rift because Kiem can’t approach Jainan with sensitivity about an incredibly personal and troubling aspect of his previous marriage. I’m struggling with this one, there’s a lot here that I’m poised to like, that I want to like, but there’s no story here if they would just sit down and talk.

[Jen]

Ok, well, I finished it.

I liked: the unique handling of gender, a couple of interesting SF ideas like the gooey airlock bridge thingie and the weapon that could be used fatally or not, I appreciate non-fatal weapons in my SF these days. Kiem and Jainan were adorable.

I didn't like: how miscommunication drove the plot, as I said in my rant post above. The cover says "Sparks Fly!" and I absolutely did not have that experience, maybe why I didn't really like this, it wasn't as advertised. It was too simplistic and I pushed through but the last 20% was a struggle. I wanted Jainan and Kiem to get their sh*t together, but I think part of the point of this was to show some growth and I just didn't buy in.

I'd say this wasn't for me but I would have liked it a lot more if the plot had been a little stronger. I was keeping in mind that it's a debut novel but I guess I have been spoiled lately with incredible debuts that this one was a little weak in my opinion.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

I'm not sure I bought the plot. An auditor has to "believe" you're married? In a world where political marriages are normal? And that's the lynch pin?

I dunno. I think without that element, the story would have been more believable, but the author needed a meet cute and what's better than a forced political marriage for a play boy and a recently widowed man reeling from loss and trauma? lol

I've said it before, I don't like romances. I thought these two were both little pumpkins who deserved hugs, but I wasn't really here for the humiliation of Jainen and I certainly wasn't interested in the more than hugging, simply because I find those scenes unappealing in books regardless of how we got into bed with them.

It was light, I got to yell at Ryan that he made me read a romance, and it certainly wasn't the most upsetting kissing book I've read, so yay.

I definitely wanted more scifi, more organic growth and less "new dormmate" like awkwardness.

[Jen]

Well said Allison, and your comment about the auditor reminds me of something.. the auditor suspected Taam was murdered, but didn't get any further than that? Internal Security also didn't get anywhere in their investigation that was going on much longer than Jainan and Kiem's poking around - no one was able to get anywhere except for them? The more I think about this book, the thinner the plot seems. But I am thinking about it rather than instantly forgetting about it, so I stand by the 3 stars I gave it.

[EJ]

Jen wrote: "Ok, well, I finished it.

I liked: the unique handling of gender, a couple of interesting SF ideas like the gooey airlock bridge thingie and the weapon that could be used fatally or not, I appreci..."

My sense re: the auditor plot wasn't that he had to believe the marriage was real but that both the ambassadors were on the up-and-up, which would make sense in a political climate where people have probably been blackmailed and threatened and compromised in various ways. When Jainan was a suspect in Taam's murder, he wasn't to be trusted. Plus, Taam was DEFINITELY shady for much more legitimate reasons.

In my opinion, when you have complex sci-fi worlds AND strong romantic threads like this, you don't have to re-invent the wheel with the plot. In fact, a straightforward plot like this one can help give structure to a book that's trying to do a whole lot in not many pages. I knew the frenetic end bit was coming but I was still on the edge of my seat.

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

i like that interpretation, EJ!

[DivaDiane]

That’s a very good point, EJ

[Brian]

This book felt like being slowly tortured with each word. To start with, I got dropped into yet another space empire. Its been done to death but at least I have a good Foundation for that.

Then, I find that I'm stuck with a couple who are so inept at communication that it felt completely contrived simply to create plot tension. I understand that a good story needs tension but this writing was painful. If I was looking for that I could just watch reality shows on TV.

I quit the book three times but kept coming back because I thought I could power through the beginning in hopes of a better story later. I gave up about half way through. Put this one in the DNF category for me.

[Bobby]

I gave it four stars because it kept my attention better than the ones that I gave 3 stars. The beginning grabbed my attention with the hope that something fun would come from the remnants and auditors and galactic politics. I also had a strong initial empathy with the two leads. But I got tired of the self doubt and miscommunication and it did not explain as much as I hoped about what was up in this galaxy. So for me started strong but ended a little weak. Not as well worked out galaxy as Foundation and not as fun romance as Pride and Prejudice or Twilight for me.