What's the Name of That Book??? discussion

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► Suggest books for me > Books about: The Ceremony of Lating or "Lating the Witches" and turnip lanterns (updated title. Previously also 'Souling', Halloween, etc.)

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message 1: by Capn (last edited Jul 20, 2022 12:24PM) (new)

Capn | 3506 comments This might be getting into the realm of "ask a folklorist", but I have great faith in Librarians and the well-read, so...

I read about The Ceremony of Lating in a juvenile reference book (The Very Scary Almanac - if it sounds familiar, it might be because I opened a thread for it before finding the title later). Here's the excerpt:

The Ceremony of Lating
During the evening on Halloween, farmers in England used to carry a lit candle over the hills and fields during the hour before midnight. If the candle burned steadily all the while, it showed that the land was free of witchcraft and other evil powers.
Yeah, doesn't say where in England...

I thought it was also mentioned here that jack o'lanterns weren't necessarily pumpkins (usually turnips, swedes (rutabagas), etc.) until they were popularized in North America. The reason this stuck in my head was that, here in Switzerland, there are Raebeliechtli umzuege (Wee Turnip Lantern Parades, is the nearest translation I can think of - the wee bit being for the 'little lantern') in November. It's a (late) harvest custom, and it's very pretty. All the kids in school carve these glowing turnips and then march around the village in the dark, singing (now usually lead by marching drum bands with LEDs - quite the din!).

As usual, no one really can explain the origins, but it's an ancient tradition (and an excuse to party a little). I always wondered if it had something to do with this "Ceremony of Lating", but I have never been able to find another reference to it.

I know it's a long shot, but if anyone's got a lead, I would love to hear more. :)

I'm also interested in a more general but in-depth reference volume for all the weird and wonderful British (and European, particularly Germanic) traditional festivals, etc. I just read Storr's Feasts And Festivals, which was very pretty but very, very sparse in details. So if anyone knows about Souling and the spiced, round 'soul cakes' given out on Halloween, I would be similarly interested (would like a recipe, ideally!). ;)

EDIT: About the 'Souling' (from Feasts And Festivals):
Souling
October 31. On All Soul's Eve, children went round to their neighbour's houses, singing:
Remember the departed,
for holy Mary's sake,
And of your charity, pray,
give us a big soul cake.

Today they may call out, "Trick or Treat!" If they are not given a soul cake - a little round spicy bun - or an apple, a few coins or sweets, they will play tricks.
(lovely illustrations, maddingly sparse on content!)


message 2: by Rainbowheart (new)

Rainbowheart | 28715 comments The Sacred Herbs of Samhain may be of interest! It definitely mentions (and contains a recipe for) soul cakes.


message 3: by Capn (new)

Capn | 3506 comments Intriguing! Thanks, Rainbowheart. :)


message 4: by Capn (last edited Jul 21, 2022 02:46AM) (new)

Capn | 3506 comments I found a little more in the ONE Google hit that came up. Now I know it's Lancashire and is also called "Lating the Witches":
At one time a custom prevailed in Lancashire, called “lating the witches.” It was observed on the eve preceding the 1st November, when witches were supposed to be busier than usual. The ceremony of lating was gone through in this way:—The poorer neighbours called at the houses of the more opulent, and at the door demanded lighted candles to carry in procession. We say demanded them at the door, because it would have been unlucky for those receiving the candles to cross a threshold then, and it would have been equally unlucky for any one of them to enter a house that night from which his or her candle was received, if the light was extinguished before the lating was concluded. Candles were given out according to the number of inmates of a house—one for every person—but it was optional for one to carry his own candle, or to find a substitute who would sally out for him to frighten the witches. The custom originated in the belief that if a lighted candle were carried about from eleven to twelve o’clock at night without being extinguished, the person it represented would be proof against witches during the year, but if the candle went out it foreboded evil.

Source: The Mysteries of All Nations - James Grant. First published in 1880. This online edition was created and published by Global Grey on the 5th April 2022. https://www.globalgreyebooks.com/onli...

The Mysteries of All Nations Rise and Progress of Superstition, Laws Against and Trialsof Witches, Ancient and Modern Delusions Together With Strange Customs, Fables, and Tales


message 5: by Capn (last edited Jul 21, 2022 02:48AM) (new)

Capn | 3506 comments Ah, and more specifically, Pendle, in Lancashire:

“This superstition led to a ceremony called lating, or perhaps leeting the witches. It was believed that, if a lighted candle were carried about the fells or hills from eleven till twelve o’clock at night, and burned all that time steadily, it had so far triumphed over the evil power of the witches, who, as they passed to the Malkin Tower, would employ their utmost efforts to extinguish the light, and the person whom it represented might safely defy their malice during the season; but if by accident the light went out, it was an omen of evil to the luckless wight for whom the experiment was made. It was also deemed inauspicious to cross the threshold of that person until after the return from leeting, and not then unless the candle had preserved its light.”

Source: https://traditionalcustomsandceremoni...


ANYWAY, now that I know Lating the Witches is the more common name, and some sources (like author Libby Ashworth's page) reference "Carving turnips and more recently pumpkins with faces and setting a candle inside them is also connected with this night and may have been influenced by ancestor worship – the earliest candles possibly being placed inside the skulls of the dead." (Source: https://elizabethashworth.com/2011/10... - I checked her GR page, but all fiction), I'm still very interested in finding out about the very origins of carved vegetable lanterns at Halloween and their purpose (not interested in folklore out of the USA - it's too recent! I'm talking druidic or not far off!).

I would specifically love to find that link between Britain and Allemanic/Germanic traditions (Anglo-Saxon, I presume?) to explain carved vegetable lanterns processions. ;)


message 6: by Capn (last edited Jul 21, 2022 05:26AM) (new)

Capn | 3506 comments I was hoping that someone might suggest a book like this, but NOT a simple 'overview' or 'introduction' as this is:

Maypoles, Mandrakes and Mistletoe: A Treasury of British Folklore

Again, I realise I might be crossing over into the textbook end of things rather than popular publishing, but I'm betting someone knows a whopper of a book that isn't very popular because it just has way too much depth to be readily consumed by the masses. ;)


message 7: by Capn (new)

Capn | 3506 comments I also found a reference on Historic UK to "Punky Night", which is only about 100 years old and involves mangold roots (near enough to turnips to make no difference to me!):

October - Last Thursday of the month
Punky Night
Hinton St George, Somerset.
This tradition goes back over 100 years, when it is said that the men from Hinton travelled to the fair at the nearby village of Chiselborough. When they didn’t return as promised, the women of the village went looking for their husbands with mangold lanterns. A mangold is a crop grown by farmers for cattle feed – a cross between a turnip and a pumpkin. The women pulled these up from the fields, carved them out and put candles in them to shed light, and then walked the four miles to Chiselborough, in search of their drunken husbands.

To commemorate the event local children still hollow out their mangolds, carving designs or faces onto the outside. In the evening candles are lit and the punky’s are paraded through the village.


Anyway, again, if anyone's got a grand resource for this sort of thing, I am all ears!


message 8: by Rainbowheart (new)

Rainbowheart | 28715 comments Cultural Traditions in the United Kingdom mentions Punky Night, but it's a picture book and not as comprehensive as what you're looking for.

The Stations of the Sun: A History of the Ritual Year in Britain might be of more interest! Looks pretty thorough and has various chapters for Samhain, Halloween, and Saints and Souls.


message 9: by Capn (new)

Capn | 3506 comments Oh yes, brilliant! Thanks, Rainbowheart! I am interested in the picture book regardless, as well! :D


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