Should Books Have A Warning/Rating System?

[Arch]

I think that books should have a warning or rating system. I have purchased books that I had to get rid of, because of profanity. The description caught my attention, but when I’ve started reading the book, lots of curse words were displayed, where I had to stop reading. People can get their point across without cursing. I like reading dangerous bad boys books, but cursing doesn’t make a hero a dangerous bad boy. I hate seeing the heroine curse too. In one of the books that I have gotten rid of, the heroine cursed a lot.

Other warning/rating systems examples: cheating, rape, incest, drugs,violence, etc.

A warning can help a reader in their decision to buy or borrow a book. A warning can also prevent a low rating and bad review.

[Biba]

I agree! There should be trigger warnings and/or profanity warnings in each book. In some books I've read, it gives you a recommended age rating on the cover...maybe that would help you?

[Emma]

Likewise.
If you are reading 'bad boy' books, shouldn't they be... bad?
A very polite mafia boss maybe? One who never indulges in violence or deals with drugs?
Profanity is a part of life, it's realistic, especially for bad boys/girls.

[Helen]

Heartily agree, Emma. However, I will be putting a trigger warning on the front page of my next book, as I don't want to upset anyone who has been physically abused. Profanity? It's part of life. You just have to get used to it. I don't know anyone who says, "Oh, bother!" these days!

[Emma]

For readers who don't know about the way amazon publishing works, this might be helpful.
in order to advertise a book, there are strict guidelines on what can and can't be included on a cover or book description. Authors leave them out for that reason, not to deceive or misrepresent the content.
But to provide a good reader experience, they often include a warning in the front matter of the book.
So if you are sensitive to certain things, check the 'look inside' before purchasing or borrowing.

[[deleted user]]

Arch wrote: "I think that books should have a warning or rating system. I have purchased books that I had to get rid of, because of profanity. The description caught my attention, but when I’ve started reading ..."

I strongly disagree with that idea. First, readers' tastes and likes vary wildly, like their degree of tolerance to various things. If you try to 'clean up' the story you write in order to cater to those readers of low tolerance views, then you risk producing a bland, insipid and wholly unrealistic story. Second, this smacks for me of a form of book censorship meant to satisfy readers with bigoted views. Are we going to auto-censor books about, say, abortions, LGBTQ relationships or atheistic views, just to make bigoted readers happy? As for sexual content, if you buy a book classified as 'erotica', then you better expect sexual content, so don't buy the book if you don't like reading about sex. Third, stories should depict the World and life as they are, not in a rosy, sanitized variant. For one, try to write a war/military story without profanity, gore or extreme violence/inhumanity: good luck with that! If a reader is too sensitive/intolerant to face the realities of this world, then maybe he/she should stick with kids books.

[Abdul]

Arch wrote: "I think that books should have a warning or rating system. I have purchased books that I had to get rid of, because of profanity. The description caught my attention, but when I’ve started reading ..."

Shouldn't it be the responsibility of the author? I've seen some authors include warnings in a) either the book description or b) in the start of the book.

[Leona]

I agree. I try too stay with authors I know. There are a lot of adult books that do not have to have such language or details to make it a good read.

[Donna]

I do find a book, and tv shows, with a lot of profanity spoils the interest for me in the plot. I realize that profanity, especially in female dialogue, has become acceptable in today's conversations, but for me, that diminishes my positive interest in that character, or person. Therefore, I choose the genres and authors that ensure that profanity is either non-existent, or kept to a minimum, so that I can thoroughly enjoy the author's carefully crafted story and characters. Just my preference and opinion.

[sonya]

I put trigger warnings in my books.

[Linda]

I write about difficult subjects for teens, so I always include trigger warnings at the beginning of my books. It's my responsibility as the author to avoid causing unnecessary trauma to someone who could be triggered by certain subjects.

I don't include a warning for the use of swears in my books, because that's a natural part of language, and I doubt I ever would consider doing it any other way.

[[deleted user]]

The only warning I (routinely) put in the introduction to my books (if relevant) is to say that my book contains depictions of war/violence/adult language/sexual content/mature content not suitable for children. Since I strive to give realistic depictions of life and of our World in my books, most of my stories have that introductory warning. However, those warnings are not meant for adult readers, who should be mature enough to handle my stories. This also does not mean that I felt forced to censor or alter my story in order to placate readers unable/unwilling to handle words, ideas or concepts other than their own. Enough with the tyranny of the bigoted and the intolerant!

[C.C.]

If every character in a book uses excess profanity, then the point and impact are lost. Use them sparingly and with purpose. In my trilogy, there are only a couple who swear as part of their character traits during conversations. There are no whole sentences or endless repetitions laden with vulgarity, as that too is redundant.

Since this happens in the real world, real-life, even as one personally prone, I do so usually only amongst friends. It would exceptional to do this in an office setting, so context is equally important in this regard. Perhaps as an expression of frustration, displeasure, rejection or repeated failure. For amusement in the third novel, we chastise the Main Character for her perpetual use. When the younger sister asks "Does the swearing help?"

Deadwood's Al Swearengen, played by Ian Mcshane, is a delight in his colourful use of verbal chastisements and rebukes.

There are plenty of books without any need to resort to swearing. And it can be implied, inferred or remarked upon without an actual inclusion. 'X banged the table in frustration with their fists, yelling, screaming, turning the very air blue.'

You are unlikely to find this problem in Children's, Religious, Mills & Boon, etc... novels. Though what I dislike, find irritating, is childish attempts to use sanitised substitutes like Frack ( as in the Battlestar reboot) or Fudge. 'Heaven help us', 'Saint's preserves us', or 'Oh, God' are just as annoying. And incidently against the religious tenets, if you are of such a philosophical bent.

I would recommend the use of a Foreword, purely to outline potential trigger issues, as I do. We live, unfortunately, in litigious times. And sadly many readers seem unable to divorce characters and their opinions from the Authors. So this negates prurient attempts to claim people were mentally traumatised or misled as to the content.

There is even a dedicate website now, which lists numerous books and authors as to the 'supposed' inherent problems. The range of potential issues and triggers is hysterically rather enormous.

https://booktriggerwarnings.com/Categ...

It is my earnest hope to one day be included in their petty list. I pretty much cover the gamut. Bereavement, Torture, Terrorism, Genocide, Horror, Gore, Murder, Blood, Violence, Self-Harm, and so on and on and on.

[Arch]

Elvis wrote: "Arch wrote: "I think maybe the issue is with you."

I was made different from you, for a reason.

[Arch]

Emma wrote: "Likewise.
If you are reading 'bad boy' books, shouldn't they be... bad?
A very polite mafia boss maybe? One who never indulges in violence or deals with drugs?
Profanity is a part of life, it's it's realistic, especially for bad boys/girls."

Are you implying that to be bad, you have to cuss? I’m a writer and I write about dangerous bad boy and my hero doesn’t cuss, smoke, drink or even have tattoos.

I see dangerous bad boys differently than a lot of people.

[Arch]

Helen wrote: "Heartily agree, Emma. However, I will be putting a trigger warning on the front page of my next book, as I don't want to upset anyone who has been physically abused. Profanity? It's part of life. Y..."

I know a lot of people that doesn’t cuss and that’s normal.

[Arch]

Michel wrote: "I strongly disagree with that idea. First, readers' tastes and likes vary wildly, like their degree of tolerance to various things. If you try to 'clean up' the story you write in order to cater to those readers of low tolerance views, then you risk producing a bland, insipid and wholly unrealistic story. Second, this smacks for me of a form of book censorship meant to satisfy readers with bigoted views. Are we going to auto-censor books about, say, abortions, LGBTQ relationships or atheistic views, just to make bigoted readers happy? As for sexual content, if you buy a book classified as 'erotica', then you better expect sexual content, so don't buy the book if you don't like reading about sex. Third, stories should depict the World and life as they are, not in a rosy, sanitized variant. For one, try to write a war/military story without profanity, gore or extreme violence/inhumanity: good luck with that! If a reader is too sensitive/intolerant to face the realities of this world, then maybe he/she should stick with kids books."

Readers tastes are different. I didn’t say that a story should be cleaned up, I’ve said that it would be good to have a warning on books, so that people can decide if they want to buy or read that book or not. I don’t like rape. I would rather know if a book has rape in it, then to buy it and give the book a low rating, due to rape being in the book. Movies gives warnings, even tv shows gives warnings.

I don’t know where you have gotten censorship from my thread. You have saw something that wasn’t there.

I guess you figure that everyone that was or is in the military, cuss. You do realize that one person can’t speak for everyone, right? A lot of women thinks that all men cheats. Is that statement true? I would have to say no, because, even if John Doe is a cheater, it doesn’t mean that Bob Left is a cheater, because he is a man.

You do realize that your reality is not everyone’s reality, right? Just because I don’t like something, doesn’t mean that I have to read a kid’s book. Do you have to read a kid’s book?

[Arch]

Abdul wrote: "Shouldn't it be the responsibility of the author? I've seen some authors include warnings in a) either the book description or b) in the start of the book. "

Yes.

[Arch]

Leona wrote: "I agree. I try too stay with authors I know. There are a lot of adult books that do not have to have such language or details to make it a good read."

So true.

[Arch]

Donna wrote: "I do find a book, and tv shows, with a lot of profanity spoils the interest for me in the plot. I realize that profanity, especially in female dialogue, has become acceptable in today's conversations, but for me, that diminishes my positive interest in that character, or person. Therefore, I choose the genres and authors that ensure that profanity is either non-existent, or kept to a minimum, so that I can thoroughly enjoy the author's carefully crafted story and characters. Just my preference and opinion.
"

I try to give new authors to me a chance and the books that had the characters cursing turned me off to the author.

[Arch]

Michel wrote: "The only warning I (routinely) put in the introduction to my books (if relevant) is to say that my book contains depictions of war/violence/adult language/sexual content/mature content not suitable for children. Since I strive to give realistic depictions of life and of our World in my books, most of my stories have that introductory warning. However, those warnings are not meant for adult readers, who should be mature enough to handle my stories. This also does not mean that I felt forced to censor or alter my story in order to placate readers unable/unwilling to handle words, ideas or concepts other than their own. Enough with the tyranny of the bigoted and the intolerant! "

Michel, I am going to be honest with you, with your attitude, I would never read your book, if they were themes that I read. Just because a person doesn’t like something, it doesn’t mean they aren’t mature.

I am not an author, but I am a writer. I write stories that a lot of people don’t read or agree with, but I would never say they aren’t mature. Every story isn’t for everyone. Your life isn’t everyone’s life or even how you think life is, is not how everyone’s life is. Everyone was raised differently. Your norm is not everyone’s norm. Keep that in mind.

[Arch]

Linda wrote: "I write about difficult subjects for teens, so I always include trigger warnings at the beginning of my books. It's my responsibility as the author to avoid causing unnecessary trauma to someone who could be triggered by certain subjects.

I don't include a warning for the use of swears in my books, because that's a natural part of language, and I doubt I ever would consider doing it any other way."

Cussing isn’t a natural part of language in everyone’s life. Everyone doesn’t cuss and I’m one of them. As a writer, I know how to write a very good story without cuss words.

[Mellie]

Arch wrote: "I think that books should have a warning or rating system."

No.

The problem with warnings and ratings is that they are subjective. What you consider bad language might be considered normal by another.

If you don't want any cursing or bad language at all in the books you read, then I suggest you look for those labelled "clean and wholesale".

[C.C.]

I should perhaps mention, Amazon already has a rating system in place. Uploading a new book, they give you the option to include an age rating. Though there is no obligation to use it and this can be amended at a later date.

Arch, cussing is a natural part of language and has been from the very start. It appears in everything, from ancient Egyptian/Roman times all the way up to the present. It is in novels, plays, common parlance and graffiti.

Choosing not to read something is always a personal option. Check out the website and you'll find Jane Austen, Conan Doyle, Agatha Christie, Mark Twain and JK Rowling included. I seriously doubt any of those have resorted four letter words. And regetably, everything is a trigger for someone these days. So regardless of what you personally may find suitable or acceptable can still have issues.

[Arch]

Mellie Wrote:”
No.

The problem with warnings and ratings is that they are subjective. What you consider bad language might be considered normal by another.

If you don't want any cursing or bad language at all in the books you read, then I suggest you look for those labelled "clean and wholesale"

You don’t get my point and no, I do not have to look for clean or wholesale books.

[Arch]

C.C. Cortland wrote: “I should perhaps mention, Amazon already has a rating system in place. Uploading a new book, they give you the option to include an age rating. Though there is no obligation to use it and this can be amended at a later date.

Arch, cussing is a natural part of language and has been from the very start. It appears in everything, from ancient Egyptian/Roman times all the way up to the present. It is in novels, plays, common parlance and graffiti.

Choosing not to read something is always a personal option. Check out the website and you'll find Jane Austen, Conan Doyle, Agatha Christie, Mark Twain and JK Rowling included. I seriously doubt any of those have resorted four letter words. And regetably, everything is a trigger for someone these days. So regardless of what you personally may find suitable or acceptable can still have issues.

I know that choosing not to read something is my choice. No, cussing is not natural. You do realize that some people doesn’t cuss, right?

People are missing my point.

[C.C.]

Arch wrote: "I know that choosing not to read something is my choice. No, cussing is not natural. You do realize that some people doesn’t cuss, right?

People are missing my point. "

And you realise, some do? And it is not a huge problem, unless you choose make it one?

First comes the compulsory legal remedies, then its the bans, next the burnings. We all know where that path leads.

Social media is a cesspit, filled with personal axes/agendas to grind for one cause or another. We all have our battlelines drawn in the sand. And everything should always be in moderation, including tolerance and perspective.
,
In the 70s, Mary Whitehouse, (the UKs Phyllis Schlafly) wanted to ban everything she personally found objectionable. Rallied the church, Mps and the pope to her cause. At the time she was seen a puritan, a maverick and reviled. Some now believe the rebels went too far the other way. Woke, BLM, feminism, equal rights, gender identity, snowflakes and numerous other associated terms are flung about as insults or waved as defiant banners.

I choose not to get too invested either way. :)

[Arch]

C.C. wrote: "And you realise, some do? And it is not a huge problem, unless you choose make it one?

First comes the compulsory legal remedies, then its the bans, next the burnings. We all know where that path leads.

Social media is a cesspit, filled with personal axes/agendas to grind for one cause or another. We all have our lines drawn in the sand. And everything should always be in moderation, including tolerance.
,
In the 70s, Mary Whitehouse, (America's Phyllis Schlafly) wanted to ban everything she personally found objectionable. Rallied the church, Mps and the pope to her cause. At the time she was seen a puritan, a maverick and reviled. Some now believe the rebels went too far the other way. Woke, BLM, feminism, equal rights, gender identity, snowflakes and numerous other associated terms are flung about as insults or waved as defiant banners.

I choose not to get too invested either way. :)
"

We see things differently. I am not talking about banning or censoring anything. I wonder why people have seen that in my post.

Some people get what I am talking about and some don’t.

[C.C.]

Indeed, we all see things differently. As I have already pointed out, what you want is available now. But making it mandatory is censorship.

We will leave it there. Some see mountains, others molehills.

[Arch]

C.C. wrote: "Indeed, we all see things differently. As I have already pointed out, what you want is available now. But making it mandatory is censorship.

We will leave it there. Some see mountains, others mole..."

We are done.

[Aaron]

Hey Arch, what kind of books do you read, I read any kind of books, whether they cuss or smoke or erotic or whatever, so just want to know what kind of books that you like?

[Arch]

Aaron wrote: "Hey Arch, what kind of books do you read, I read any kind of books, whether they cuss or smoke or erotic or whatever, so just want to know what kind of books that you like?"

Why are you concern with what kind of books I like to read?

[Aaron]

because it seems to me and others that you like to criticize what others seem to read and you are very unhappy about it, that's all.

[Mellie]

Arch wrote: "Why are you concern with what kind of books I like to read?"

People are trying to suggest books you might actually enjoy. But you seem determined to force authors to comply to some entirely subjective standard you have decided upon. Some might say it is an unrealistic standard since you said you want to read about "bad boys", and from my experience, those books have a high heat content (sex and language).

[Arch]

Aaron wrote: "because it seems to me and others that you like to criticize what others seem to read and you are very unhappy about it, that's all."

You are wrong. We are done.

[Aaron]

Arch wrote: "Aaron wrote: "because it seems to me and others that you like to criticize what others seem to read and you are very unhappy about it, that's all."

You are wrong. We are done."

why?

[Arch]

Mellie wrote: "People are trying to suggest books you might actually enjoy. But you seem determined to force authors to comply to some entirely subjective standard you have decided upon. Some might say it is an unrealistic standard since you said you want to read about "bad boys", and from my experience, those books have a high heat content (sex and language). "

I did not ask anyone for suggestions. I am not trying to force authors to do anything. I could be wrong, but everyone that has gotten offended by my post must be authors or wants to be an author. I don’t see anything wrong with books having a rate system. Movies does. I didn’t create my thread to fight with people, but it seems as if people want to fight with me. People have taken my thread and made themselves see what’s not there. Some people understood what I was saying on this post and others refused to see what I was saying.

I do love reading about dangerous bad boys. My dangerous bad boy. What I see as being dangerous bad boy might not be the same with another person. A nerd could be a dangerous bad boy to me. I’m a writer and I write about dangerous bad boy.

Everyone doesn’t cuss. I have used that as my example, because that’s one of the things I hate and would turn me off a book.

We are done.

[[deleted user]]

Arch wrote: "I did not ask anyone for suggestions. I am not trying to force authors to do anything. I could be wrong, but everyone that has gotten offended by my post must be authors or wants to be an author. I don’t see anything wrong with books having a rate system. Movies does. I didn’t create my thread to fight with people, but it seems as if people want to fight with me. People have taken my thread and made themselves see what’s not there. Some people understood what I was saying on this post and others refused to see what I was saying.

I do love reading about dangerous bad boys. My dangerous bad boy. What I see as being dangerous bad boy might not be the same with another person. A nerd could be a dangerous bad boy to me. I’m a writer and I write about dangerous bad boy.

Everyone doesn’t cuss. I have used that as my example, because that’s one of the things I hate and would turn me off a book.

We are done...."

You are doing some obvious double-speak here. You say that you did not ask anyone for suggestions but had plenty to say about what you don't want to see in books and argued for seeing a 'rating system' being established on books to warn for the presence of things that you don't like. Those things are to be found in a large majority of all the books published on the market, yet you want 'bad boys who don't say profanities', something I and most other people find completely unrealistic and a denial of the realities of life. And what is your response to comments and objections from others? 'We are done!'

I also noticed that, while you read and rated over 160 books, the average overall rating you gave them is 2.2. You also say that you are a writer but are not a author. Care to explain the nuance? You seem to like criticizing others but refuse to listen to criticism of your 'ratings system' suggestion and respond 'We are done!'. I would suggest for you to get off your high horse, take off your blinders and open your mind. Then, maybe, you will be more appreciated in this discussion forum.

[Christopher]

I think people should be mature and responsible enough to make decisions without someone holding their hand for them

[Arch]

Christopher wrote: "I think people should be mature and responsible enough to make decisions without someone holding their hand for them"

Is someone holding your hand?

[Ann]

Hi, hot discussion here. I just want to chime in because I've been wanting a book rating system since I began my book adventures (don't hate me).

I don't mean censorship, I mean like a movie has a rating system to let viewers know what is in a movie.

I've donated a number of books that I could only partly finish due to unexpected graphic violence or other subjects I don't care to read about. It becomes a waste of my money, and I didn't trust reading more from the author/writer who did not care enough to warn their readers who are sensitive to certain topics. Just saying.


If you want to get a view of my anxieties over certain topics, you can read my Batman blog post. Warning! That was written on very little sleep and a whole lot of coffee hahe!

As a writer, I plan to include a note (because I feel my current project might need one) that some might consider a rating. I'm still trying to figure out how to word this rating or warning.

Along these lines, I also worry if my own work might be too boring...for most people.

[Arch]

Ann wrote: "Hi, hot discussion here. I just want to chime in because I've been wanting a book rating system since I began my book adventures (don't hate me).

I don't mean censorship, I mean like a movie has a rating system to let viewers know what is in a movie."

Ann, you get what I am saying about warning/rating system. If a movie can have a warning/rating system, then books ought to do the same thing. Where is the censorship claims for movies that lets it be known that there is foul language or even violence in it? Just as movie watchers rates movies, book readers rates books. A lot of readers go by the rating and or review by people they know over what an author says about their book. Although, I don’t go by someone’s rating or review on a book to determine if I am going to read a book, but if I read a review that states a certain book has too much cursing in it or state something else that I don’t care for, I will not read that book. If I already own that book, I will get rid of it.

When authors are seeking an audience, they need to find out what people like and don’t like reading. Some authors can’t handle a bad review.

[Ann]

Yeah, I rely on reviews for a makeshift rating system too.

I don't mind skipping paragraphs or pages now and again, but only if it's not too often.

I always tell fellow readers/movie-watchers not to continue a book or movie that is going to mess with their nerves or mind. Not worth the stress.

[Arch]

When a book is not a true catcher to me and I’m trying to give it a chance, I will do some skipping, especially if it’s dragging or boring and that could be a book that I will not finish.

[Ann]

True. Once, before I discovered reviews and what spoilers were (I'm someone who actually likes spoilers in reviews), I read a whole (boring) book waiting for the "ghost" (because there was a promise of a ghost in the book's description) and it turned out to be an insane serial killer...not a ghost! LOL. I won't give the name of the book...I know most readers don't like spoilers.

[Arch]

No, some readers don’t like spoilers and Goodreads has an option for a reader to hide their review if it contains spoilers. The options warns readers that the review contains spoilers.

[Aaron]

Arch wrote: "No, some readers don’t like spoilers and Goodreads has an option for a reader to hide their review if it contains spoilers. The options warns readers that the review contains spoilers."

hey Arch, I'm with you on the boring books, sometimes they just drag on that I just have to cut them off.

[Arch]

Aaron wrote: "hey Arch, I'm with you on the boring books, sometimes they just drag on that I just have to cut them off. "

Yes,

[Ann]

Arch wrote: "No, some readers don’t like spoilers and Goodreads has an option for a reader to hide their review if it contains spoilers. The options warns readers that the review contains spoilers."


Precisely ;-D.

[Dale]

I don't know about warning labels, but responding to the idea that we should all just get used to it because it's part of real life, I disagree.

Excessive obscenity is (usually) sloppy writing. That it's "part of real life" is no defense. A story is not "real life." It's a crafted illusion. I once compared the art of storytelling to the art of bonsai (of which I'm a fairly unskilled practitioner). A bonsai is crafted to give the appearance of an old tree growing in nature, but most of the principles of bonsai design have nothing to do with natural trees. (See "Clean Up Your Language" at https://medium.com/writing-cooperativ... for a discussion of this as it relates to writing.)

Words have varying levels of intrusiveness. Some words, like "an" or "the" are nearly invisible and can be used with impunity. Obscenity is at the other end of the scale. It slaps you in the face every time it appears. Now, any intrusive word should be used sparingly. "Indefatigable" should be used sparingly. Obscenity doesn't have a special dispensation. If it's overused it should be cut.

Aside from that, in everyday speech obscenity often appears as empty filler, devoid of meaning. In writing, we should cut empty filler. Finally, obscenity is often used merely to indicate anger or other strong emotions that could be displayed in more creative and meaningful ways. If your character is swearing because they're angry, try dumping the obscenity. That will force you to find more vivid ways of showing their anger, which will improve your story.

I'm not saying obscenity never has its uses. I'm only saying that in most cases it should be used sparingly and always should be used with a purpose, not merely because "it's how real people talk." In my writing, whenever I'm tempted to insert and obscenity, I look for other ways to accomplish my purpose. I've sometimes used mild obscenities when I couldn't find any other way. In one of my works in progress, I did put one (only one) stronger obscenity into a character's mouth because I just couldn't find any other way to convincingly convey his state of mind. But that may be it for that novel. One is likely plenty.