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DREAMLESS - Read Along
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So, here’s a thing a lot of people don’t know about. When you’re writing a series, your second book is often done and edited and sealed (which means you can’t go back and in change anything) months before the first book ever comes out. You’re flying blind at this point, as in, you have no idea whether or not anyone is going to even like the first book you wrote, let alone the second. It’s the epitome of one of those cheesy trust exercises they do in team building, where you fall back into someone else’s arms and hope they catch you. Except this is with, like, your whole career on the line. It’s not pleasant. I mean, you’re ecstatic and grateful someone is paying you to write another book in a world you created, but the self-doubt is just knee-buckling.
I dove into Dreamless with every last detail hammered out. I mean I had every single scene in the book playing like a movie in my head. I had a beat-by-beat outline with a frigging graph. I’d murder-walled the bejeezus out of this book just so I didn’t screw it up. And I screwed it up.
Not entirely, just a little bit. Because in all my preparation, I forgot one thing. The second book in the series can’t just pick up where the first book left off. Readers need reminders of what happened in the story up to this point. And by golly, did I fight that! I felt like I was repeating myself and that it was stupid, and that if people wanted to know what had already happened, they should go back and re-read the first book.
In short, I was a jackass about it. I wrote a boomerang draft. That’s the dreaded draft that goes backwards—a second draft that’s worse than the first. It was a rookie mistake, but after settling down, I wrote a third and much better draft, which eventually became the book everyone read.
And here’s what I learned from that experience. Never fight the note. If you get a note, even if you hate it in your very soul, try to remember that it’s there for a reason. It’s on you as a writer to fix it however you want, but you still have to fix it. And once you do your book will be better, and you’ll become a better writer because writing (and life in general) isn’t about always getting it right. It’s about getting better.
I’m a bit late to start this read along. I only started re reading starcrossed last week. I’m only had way through. No where near starting dreamless yet :(
Faye wrote: "I’m a bit late to start this read along. I only started re reading starcrossed last week. I’m only had way through. No where near starting dreamless yet :("No need to rush! Just have fun rereading! We would all love to talk about either book with you regardless on your pace!
I’m still behind too don’t worry! Life happens :) we’re just here to enjoy the reread
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I'm currently rereading this book once again, though at a slower pace than I did last month, since my classes at college are back. Still, needed to drop by here just to say how much I love this book. I love how the relationship between the characters are developed in here and how we get to see some new parts of them we didn't really see before, especially (view spoiler). I LOVED Starcrossed so I was really excited when I went to read Dreamless, it was actually the first book I ever read in English as well, because I had been emailing the publisher responsible for the series here in Brazil for MONTHS, but they never gave me a reply as to when it would come out here and I was so obsessed with it, that I decided to just give it a try and read it in english instead. I remember it was all I could talk about when I met my friends at school lol. Because of that, Dreamless holds a really special place in my heart, I think I'll never be able to forget it or the time when I first read it back in high school.
Valet wrote: "I'm currently rereading this book once again, though at a slower pace than I did last month, since my classes at college are back. Still, needed to drop by here just to say how much I love this boo..."The Starcrossed Trilogy was one of the first books I've read in English, too! (I read all of them in German first, tough)
And honestly, the reading experience was even better :)
DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️if you had to deal with EVERYTHING that helen has been going through in these first few chapters, how would you cope? would you indulge in a guilty pleasure? vent to a friend? have a self care day? etc?
Sarah Grace wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️if you had to deal with EVERYTHING that helen has been going through in these first few chapters, how would you cope? would you indulge in a guilty pleasure? vent to a friend?..."I'd probably have a full-on mental breakdown and cry 😂
Here are my thoughts on chapters 4-8 in Dreamless.Love triangles are divisive. I have seen full-on brawls erupt over the issue of love triangles in YA, and I have to agree that there are few tropes in YA romances that are more abused. Sure, they build tension, but they also get over-used, making them feel trite.
Creating a love triangle is a sensitive thing. It’s easy to turn a reader against the protagonists if it isn’t handled correctly. It can seem like someone is cheating, or like they fall in and out of love too quickly and easily which cheapens it and lowers the stakes overall. I have my misgivings about love triangles, but when I introduced Orion at the beginning of Dreamless, I didn’t see it as one. I saw it as “phase two” of Helen’s emotional journey.
You know what? It’s good to date. Even in an epic love story like the one set up for me by the Iliad, I think it’s important for our protagonists to know that there’s life after heartbreak. They can move on. Meet new people. Find a hobby, even if that hobby happens to be hiking through Hades.
Whatever else he becomes, Orion is Helen’s friend first, and that’s the part of their relationship that’s most important to both of them.
Josephine wrote: "So, here’s a thing a lot of people don’t know about. When you’re writing a series, your second book is often done and edited and sealed (which means you can’t go back and in change anything) months..."Dreamless is my favorite book of the trilogy so hearing this insight on it is so exciting!!
Sarah Grace wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️if you had to deal with EVERYTHING that helen has been going through in these first few chapters, how would you cope? would you indulge in a guilty pleasure? vent to a friend?..."Honestly, if I had to go through what Helen goes through in this book I would isolate myself probably. Definitely not a healthy way to go about things, but I don't think I would talk about everything I'm dealing with until I hit my breaking point. I would also probably end up having an argument with some people (Jason for sure).
Josephine wrote: "Here are my thoughts on chapters 4-8 in Dreamless.Love triangles are divisive. I have seen full-on brawls erupt over the issue of love triangles in YA, and I have to agree that there are few trop..."
When it comes to love triangles, I agree that it is really easy to mess it up and overdo it. With that being said, I do like love triangles when they are included for the development of the plot or characters, because then it has a purpose beyond the drama of it. I think the way you did it in Dreamless was perfect because, as you said, it was a part of Helen's emotional journey.
Gabby wrote: "Who is currently reading, and how many people is this a reread for?"I started reading the book yesterday! :) I only managed to get access to my books on Sunday and read Starcrossed in two days. Now I caught up to chapter 8 in Dreamless.
I loved this trilogy when it first came out. I was in school back then and I actually was taught Ancient Greek for four years, so you can imagine how much I loved the starcrossed series when I first read it.
So much nostalgia reading this again almost 10 years later (and mind you I have read the whole series tons of times) :)
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Not a lot of my readers talk about Matt. I really love his character, even though I gave him the horrible, thankless task of being Helen’s foil. These chapters set up Matt and give us a little insight into who Matt is and why he makes the choices he does in Goddess. I always put a ton of characters into my books, probably because I’m from a huge family and it follows that a part of my brain is geared to think of social groups in herd-like quantities, but even without that I think I would still be of the opinion that the secondary characters really make or break a series. In a one-off book you can get away with focusing all your energy on the main cast and the hero vs. villain conflict, but the secondary characters are what generate tension in series-long stories. It often turns out that the most interesting character arcs for the main characters are described by how well-designed the secondary characters are.
My tip to any new writers out there is to make your supporting cast as clear in your head as your main characters. Know who they are. Spend time on them. Get a clear picture in your head, even if you have to borrow you real friends and family to do it. (Yep. We all do that.) Your secondary characters could be the source of some of your most interesting plot twists if you decide to write more than one book set in the same world. And even if you don’t, you’ll still be happy you did all that work on them because they’ll add something to the story. Going through this re-read, and taking a closer look at Matt, I’m realizing that they add heart.
Chapters 14-18Endings are hard. One of the things I get asked the most both from readers and aspiring writers is how do I finish my books? If you’ve never done it before it does seem like finding your way through a labyrinth.
Most new writers start off with a great idea and characters they love, and then they get past the inciting incident—that’s the bit of information at the beginning of a story that turns the story on its head, like when Alice fell down the rabbit hole—and they get lost. It’s usually because, like Alice, they don’t know where they’re going.
Whether a writer is a plotter (someone who outlines their stories before writing) or a pantser (someone who sits down at the keyboard and wings it) I think the only way to get to the ending of a story is to make a clear choice about what that ending should be. Do the heroes win, or is this a book where they take one on the chin? I always advise outlining over winging it, but if you’re a pantser to the core, you can still make the choice of what kind of book you want it to be. Is it a win or a loss?
In Dreamless I decided that it was time for Helen to lose a round. It’s book 2—the Empire Strikes Back part of this three-part story. The immediate bad guy, Ares, gets put in Tartarus so there is a little victory, but Helen fails at the more important task of keeping the Houses separate and preventing the return of the Olympians.
I love Empire Strikes Back. It’s my favorite of all the Star Wars movies. I like that they lose, and I made the conscious decision that that was how I was going to end Dreamless. Even though it was only the second time I’d ever written a book, and I was scared out of my mind because I signed a big old contract with a ticking clock attached, I finished it in the time allotted.
My advice to any writer who struggles to finish their books is to envision how you want your book to end. Know whether you want your heroes to win or lose. Make that one choice first and you can figure out the rest along the way. If you must. I still think outlining makes for better, tighter books, and doesn’t kill the spontaneity at all, but I can already hear all you pantsers shouting at me, so I’ll stop now. :)
i agree, second books are for making mistakes, and failing, but most importantly getting back up again after those falls.
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• General group rules: please be polite, no rudeness or bullying will be tolerated.
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Readalong Schedule
The Dreamless readalong will begin the same day the Starcrossed readalong ends - the 8th of August.
8th - 15th: prologue - chapter three
15th - 22nd: chapters four - eight
22nd - 29th: chapters nine - thirteen
29th - 5th: chapters fourteen - eighteen
This schedule is just a guide for the readalong discussion, but it does not strictly have to be followed - we understand everyone reads at their own pace! This is why we are firm on the use of tagging your comments with the chapters you are commenting on and using spoiler tags. This way you can read and write your thoughts down and participate in discussion, without spoiling it for anyone else.
Giveaway
Anyone who participates in this discussion will automatically (unless you decide to opt out) be entered in to a giveaway, with the prize being a Starcrossed/Scions themed bookmark sent from Josephine Angelini herself. The winner will be selected and contacted shortly after the end of this individual read along.